Were these songs popular during Civil War?

Subject: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: bfolkemer
Date: 03 May 01 - 12:28 PM

Hi all,

I'm trying to document whether "Poor Wayfaring Stranger," and "Old Joe Clark" were sung by soldiers and or civilians during the US Civil War.

Thank you very much!

Beth

Subject: RE: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: IanC
Date: 03 May 01 - 12:32 PM

Not during the English Civil War

Cheers!-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: Kim C
Date: 03 May 01 - 12:37 PM

Here's what I think I know...

Wayfaring Stranger may go back as far as the mid-18th century. As far as I know, it was known and sung during the Civil War.

I have heard differing opinions on Old Joe Clark. I've played it at historical events and no one has ever called me on it. If anyone has some documentation on this one, please do come forth.

Subject: RE: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: GUEST,Ole Bull
Date: 03 May 01 - 12:41 PM

I have been collecting CW and earlier songs for several years. I have found no mention of OJC during that period nor have I come across anything that sounds like it. I conclude therefore, no. The other one I don't know.

Subject: RE: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: SINSULL
Date: 03 May 01 - 12:47 PM

The English had a Civil War???? Wow!
Mary, tongue in cheek before I get a lecture.

Subject: RE: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: MMario
Date: 03 May 01 - 12:48 PM

for what it is worth old joe clark

Subject: RE: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 May 01 - 12:48 PM

Sinsull, you roundhead, you! (grin)I'll see what I can dig up on Old Joe......

Subject: RE: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 May 01 - 12:55 PM

Take a look at this page.

Subject: RE: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 May 01 - 12:58 PM

Also, at The Lester S. Levy Collection of Sheet Music--OLD JOE The lyrics are very different (Blackface vaudeville) but the tune is similar.

Subject: RE: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 May 01 - 01:00 PM

Do you all know Mudcatter Irish sergeant? He has just put together a civil war songbook. I hope to see it and sing it with him tomorrow night at an re-enactment in Elmira, NY.

~S~

Subject: RE: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: Uncle Jaque
Date: 03 May 01 - 11:07 PM

Like Ol' Bull, I have been collecting and studying American Music (such as I can, not being a particular expert on the subject, but rather a self-directed student). I have original books from 1800 through the ACW years and enjoy perusing and "picking" online resources such as the LEVY Collection and others mentioned previously.
I do not recall seeing "Ol' Joe" in any publication prior to the 1960's Folk Revival works, and have long attributed it to the late 19th - early 20th Century Appalachian tradition. This is consistant with the history provided by Sorcha's link. Ol' Joe Clark's lifestyle seems pretty "normal and socially acceptable" by today's standards, and we would no doubt be considered "insensitive" and "judgemental" to find anything stigmatic about it were he around now... but I digress.
As far as "Wayfaring Stranger", It is one of my personal favorites. I get about halfway through it and usually get so caught up with the powerful spiritual imagry of it that I get all flummoxed up...; it kind of goes critical mass and melts down, like a runaway nuclear reaction. Sometimes it seems like my guitar is about to explode. There arn't many songs that get out of control and seem to take me over like that, and I'm working at being able to present it in a reasonable intact and rational fasion. But as "possesions" go, it's not at all bad. As long as there is no audience there to embarass myself before, I don't mind going there on occasion. It's kind of like the "new wine in an old wineskin" metaphor, if you know where I'm coming from.
Although I can't seem to find clear documentation right now, I am of the impression that it was a Negro Spiritual of the middle 19th Century, later absorbed into the cross - cultural folk tradition. I would not feel at all "farby" playing it at a reenactment in carachter untill such time as credible documentation proved it to be post - period... and I could keep it together through the whole thing.
These old songs - especially the ones which fell from popularity prior t0 the advent of recording technology - are a real challange to re-create. Even those which were written and published only provide a helpful skeleton, I opine; individual performers filled them out with their interpretations, vocal and instrumental styles, and artistic ad libs. Historically credible interpretations won't always be attractive to 21st Century ears, and singing was markedly and distictly different back then prior to electronic amplification. Some of the old books contain instructional text on vocal technique which can be quite helpful in interpretation, and there are a few Musicians who I feel do it about as "right" as any of us are about to... but they don't seem to be selling a lot of albums, and probably won't any time soon.

Subject: RE: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 May 01 - 11:23 PM

Just discovered my first link is the same as Mario's.

Subject: RE: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: wysiwyg
Date: 04 May 01 - 01:25 AM

I'll mention all this to Irish when I see him tomorrow if he has not spotted it, in which case I would imagine he'll post on Monday, being otherwise "occupied" this weekend!

~S~

Subject: RE: Were these songs popular during Civil Wa
From: bfolkemer
Date: 07 May 01 - 12:40 AM

Wow, you folks are great! Really enjoyed the links. Looks like we'll include Wayfarin' Stranger, but not Old Joe Clark. I have several versions of the former, from various sources, if anyone is interested.

Beth