Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Blackcatter
Date: 08 May 01 - 01:43 AM

Thank goodness percentile dice finally came out while I used to play it. - All those damn dice was really stupid. But I remeber my original basic set had chits. - yeah, like that's fun...

pax yall

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Matt_R
Date: 07 May 01 - 11:09 PM

Dang! I want gamepieces, dammit! I want a little lead figure!!

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 May 01 - 10:54 PM

You're right, Sean, but in those early days we used to have to push the kids to do anything. I used to tease them with, "What? Afraid to get your armor dirty?"

Generally I could guide them past the point of stupidity and into some fun action.

Now that we have two clerics in the party with Raise Dead spells we are less concerned with preserving the main characters lives. Instead we focus on keeping the clerics alive.

In the last eight years we have faced our own deaths several times. In the early days we "happened" to find enough money to pay a high level cleric to raise Garth. And one of our characters has been taken by the gods and raised to demigod status.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: SeanM
Date: 07 May 01 - 08:54 PM

Pencils, paper and imagination, Matt...

Oh. And twenty bajillion weirdly shaped dice, for thems that use them.

*sigh* Traps... another fave is the "Atlas" statue with the giant gold globe on top. The only approach to it is up a slick channel with what appear to be very flat corpses lining it... No reason to go near the globe, no reason to climb the channel, no reasons except greed. Muck with the statue, the ball falls in to the channel, and pancakes are served.

As to the 'No killing the mains' rule - it's good, to a point. However, some players will take advantage of this, and I'm all for punishing stupidity. "Hey, this remarkably dangerous looking liquid in a bottle marked 'Poison, kills instantly' looks good! I think I'll drink it!"

M

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Matt_R
Date: 07 May 01 - 08:12 PM

How do you play this? Is there a set game board? With game pieces? Or is it all pencil & paper stuff?

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Rollo
Date: 07 May 01 - 07:28 PM

The best traps are allways the simple ones... those you know they are there, but you cannot avoid them and just have to enter them... make the whole section of the tunnel the trigger. Let them enter a big hollow counterweight. the players HAVE to cross it. No way to block it, how do you block a stone weight of this dimensions? And what will happen? Maybe thousands cubic metres of water from a mountain lake sweep down the players into the pit of the kraken? Let the players find the lines marking the begin of the trigger section in the tunnel. let them find the water pipes. No chance to disable the device...

Or use psycology. Make offers the players just cannot resist... Like Red Cloud at the Fetterman Massacre. Around the corner a small band of goblins turns up. After the first shock they are quite aware that they will lose the encounter. They turn on their heels and flee... and followed by the players posse the little bastards cross a big cave, legging it to the other side at high speed. But hidden between the stalakmites, the goblin arrowers open fire as soon the players have entered the cave... and another group pulls the lever loosing a big heap of rocks, closing the entrance behind the players.

Or use combined trap systems! Yes, it is no problem to avoid the crossbow bolts automaticly fired out of the holes in the wall when the players come near the unholy shrine. And the players cannot await to see the statues lining the wall come to live when they enter the shrine. but the whole mumbo-jumbo is just to let the players forget the crossbow holes behind them... because in the moment the players enter the shrine to battle the animated statues the crossbows recharge and fire again...

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 May 01 - 06:56 PM

Don't bother with the clickey. It takes you to the wrong place. I don't know how to get you to her page after all. Sorry.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 May 01 - 06:54 PM

I guess I don't get it. When we started the game with the kids (they were 10, 12, and 13 years old) Doug and I set some ground rules. D&D is like TV and the movies in your mind. And in those mediums the heroes never (rarely) die. So we set one rule that the heroes would not get killed dead. They could go down to zero hit points but never any lower. Since I was in the party I could guide them out of a serious situation before we were overwhelmed. One exception to the rule was my characters. Garth and Rankin were expendable. The kids had to know that it could happen to their characters but they didn't have to experience it.

It made life interesting for Doug because he had to craft his dungeons in those days with the idea that they would be a challenge but still not end up with the party in tatters.

The result has been a group that works together pretty well. There are 5 players and we each have at least two characters. We aren't a party, we are an army! We call ourselves the Green Dragons Wanderers. Our battles get pretty complicated. We have plenty of stories and quips and quotes from those adventures. You can get a taste of it from my daughter's website, Click here.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Blackcatter
Date: 07 May 01 - 06:45 PM

You could always give them an STD from the "ladies" they enjoyed in the last tavern - that was always a good one years ago. - If you do it right, people think they're getting sick from something around them or a spell - yet it's a disease.

Teached them the possible consequences of ALL their actions in a game.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: SeanM
Date: 07 May 01 - 05:24 PM

Oooh...more traps and such...

I was also always partial to Rust Monsters. Nasty little buggers that rusted and corroded any metal that touched them immediately... "Your leather armor starts dropping off" "But it's LEATHER! It CAN'T rust!" "No, the leather's just fine. The little rivets that hold it all together have seen many better days, though..." muahahahaha...

I love intelligent monsters as well. I proudly state that from my 6 years of running dungeons, I NEVER lost a dragon. Not through bending the rules, mind you. Just that they're supposed to be whopping great, super intelligent, spellcasting and resisting flying lizards. It always amused me when I'd hear people saying "YEAH! My third level thief just backstabbed and killed an ancient gold dragon!"

More traps, though? Another Grimtooth that I loved was a room with a giant pool of bubbling wax, with the coalescing vapor coating EVERYTHING in the room, including the small, non-railed bridge in the middle, and perhaps even more importantly, the Flint Golem guarding said bridge... If you don't see the problem, consider that wax vapor is highly flammable (it's what keeps candles burning, more or less), and then add in the steel swords striking the flint golem...

One of the old TSR modules (Tomb of Horrors) had some great traps too. One of my faves was a simple one that wiped out several parties - a black hole, roughly human sized, on a fresco as the mouth of a demon's face. You climb in, you die. Period. Body and all gear instantly destroyed. I'd one party that I very blatantly said "Look, it's a trap, you've lost two members already. Don't try climbing in. You'll be dead." Their response? "yeah, right. You wouldn't do that. ***ZAP***"

M

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Caitrin
Date: 07 May 01 - 12:46 PM

*grins* Okay, I'll 'fess up. I've got Raiya Damodred, human thief and Aurellia Sidavloras, elven mage. Those are the only two I'm running at the moment. And I'm going to download the mp3 right now.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 May 01 - 12:23 PM

LOL!!

I'm pretty sure I was at the game where they recorded this thing!

LOL!!!

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 May 01 - 12:20 PM

Actually Clinton, I downloaded it and listened to it. My kids have it and they have the rest of it as well. When I get home I'll see if I can find it and send it out to you.

It IS hilarious, mainly because we've all been there. In my world it is what I would consider D&D hell.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Matt_R
Date: 07 May 01 - 12:14 PM

Lol Brett. I had tons of names...I can't remember any except Fyodor. It's been a good 3 years since I played Castle Of The Winds, which is a computer role-playing game, less darker than D&D, and totally based on Norse mythology.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 07 May 01 - 11:57 AM

Nobody downloaded the MP3 I posted yet??

;-)

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 May 01 - 11:45 AM

That's an interesting point Matt. OK, people, 'fess up! What are your character's names and what are they?

Mine:

Garth Longreach of the Broken Chain. A Human Fighter, currently 13th level. He earned his additional name (of the Broken Chain) in the campaign against the slavers.

Rankin Dare Demonbane, half elf Bard, currently 12th level. He started out as a fighter-thief but I changed him into a bard as I became more interested in music myself. He was given the name Demonbane after he was released from captivity by Lloth, the Spider Goddess. She granted him limited power over lower level demons.

I've been playing them in one campaign for about 8 years now. We take the game rules seriously so advancement is slow and deliberate.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: mousethief
Date: 07 May 01 - 11:29 AM

Let me say, as a Christian Dungeons and Dragons player, that those who think it's the work of the devil are one egg roll short of a pu-pu platter.

Don't forget oozing gunk that instantly corrodes whatever it touches. That was a biggie back in the 1970's when I played most of my D&D games. You can make a room they MUST pass, but they can't step on the floor, and give them a puzzle to solve -- like the chimpanzees that have to stack up the boxes to get to the banana suspended form the ceiling -- only in this case it's finding uncorruptable things to step on.

Alex

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 May 01 - 11:07 AM

My son used to play this endlessly. I haven't, but I do remember hearing about a few of the things you all have listed.

Borrowing from an Alfred Hitchcock story, with a bit of an adaptation, you could have the trap be a room lined with steel, which gets hotter and hotter, eventually roasting the hapless warriors or what have you for an Ogres' Bar-be-Que!

No one has mentioned quicksand...another useful trap of sorts.

Sounds like fun!

kat

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Matt_R
Date: 07 May 01 - 10:28 AM

Ah, D&D must be different from Caste of The Winds, because a Wand of Detect Traps will find them all, including the Hidden Glyphs. Did I mention on there, my name was Fyodor the Invincible Manticore's Bane?

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Caitrin
Date: 07 May 01 - 10:20 AM

Actually, our party tends to rely on my thief character to detect traps, since she has a +10 on that skill. Let's not forget that even a wand of detect traps can't always find the traps--it all depends on how high the difficulty level is set.
I've been charged with trying to de-Munchkin this campaign--we let Jason DM last week, and it resulted in us defeating a red wyrm with a mechanical castle and suddenly going from level 4 to level 7, getting a bunch of magic items, and acquiring a baby red dragon. (Jason's one of those "I use my +25 Sword of Slay Anything to defeat the ancient gold wyrm then resurrect it and make it my wizardly familiar" people.) I already managed to get rid of the dragon, but not before having him munch on some magic items.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Mrrzy
Date: 07 May 01 - 09:25 AM

My Hobbit thief is still stuck in some dungeon somewhere with an elemental outside the door...Boy, what a fun game!

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Matt_R
Date: 07 May 01 - 08:47 AM

But Smirking Sneak Thieves only steal from your purse and belt! If you put the Wand in your free hand, he can't steal it! You can also leave it in a small bag in a deserted tunnel if you don't want it stolen. You could throw in a few cursed items along with it, for instance, a Cursed Amulet of Reduce Intelligence, Scroll of Summon Monster, Or a Potion of Synergize Poison. They'd leave it alone alright! Though, a Gelatinous Glob might by liable to pick it up as part of it's oozing. In that case, no other would be able to get to it until you kill it and reclaim your goods.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 May 01 - 08:39 AM

Only if the DM allowed you to keep it! Backpacks and pouches have to be repaired evry once in a while and things fall out! Also, remember there are thieves about!

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Matt_R
Date: 07 May 01 - 08:30 AM

Of course, if you had a Wand of Detect Traps, your little ploys would be useless! HAHAHAH!

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 May 01 - 08:26 AM

I once built a dungeon where the party was begged by an old man to clear the monsters out of a local cave and save the town. How many times have we heard that one?

Unfortunately the old man was a high level wizard and the cave was his own invention. When the party went in they were immediately trapped and forced to make their way to the other end. They found fantastic treasures that disappeared completely when they got to the other end.

The key is that the whole thing was put on for the entertainment of the wizard's friends. He had a pool in an amphitheater and a spell on the cave so that the people could gather in the amphiteater and watch the dungeoneers fight their way through.

They did get paid for their efforts though. At the other end was a rack with a bag of 1000 GP for each member of the party.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: IceWolf
Date: 07 May 01 - 07:49 AM

For indoor dungeons, there is always the sliding stone block (triggered by one of them stepping on a trigger stone) which blocks their route outta there. This is more effective if the trigger stone is separated from the place where the block slides, so they hear the stone grating, but won't *immediately* realize what's happened.

One of my favorite traps wasn't exactly a trap. It was a big underground lake with a series of drains - if the controls were placed in a certain configuration, the dungeon would flood, but it would take several minutes to do so.

For outdoor traps, there's deadfalls and pitfalls. I also had a monster dubbed "fire-eater" which was the bane of my party. It was attracted by the light of the campfires and would dash over to the fire and eat it. This was naturally very noisy (especially as the players reacted somewhat predictably), and generally attracted all kinds of unpleasant attention.

One thing that a lot of DM's fail to capitalize on is that some monsters are capable of strategy and tactics. If your players are storming a fort, there will almost certainly be static defenses in place. If they are chasing a band of monsters, the monsters may well boobytrap their backtrail (read "The Most Dangerous Game" for ideas here).

IceWolf

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: SeanM
Date: 07 May 01 - 07:32 AM

One of my favorite tactics is stripping the players of all their posessions, and forcing them to think their way through a problem rather than relying on their "toys"...

Traps? My favorite were the old "Grimtooth's" traps books... One of my favorites involved a dungeon where rotting, locked doors were common. The trap was basically a weighted sash within the door, with a guillotine-style blade on it. If the door was opened 'correctly', the trap wouldn't trigger. Pity the poor fighter who thought he'd save the time by kicking it in, though...

M

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: John P
Date: 07 May 01 - 07:21 AM

I once set up a trap that involved a room with musicians playing dance music. Anyone who entered the room and heard the music started dancing, and didn't stop. Fulfilling the quest required passing through the room. The musicians were demons that were impervious to everything except fire -- but they looked like nice, normal humans. "Burn the musicians!" became one of the ongoing jokes of our game, used in situations where the only life-saving action was one that would normally bring lots of bad karma. Both our other DM and I were big on hard choices.
JP

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Naemanson
Date: 07 May 01 - 06:26 AM

Ah! D&D! I never heard of anything more than parental harrassment for D&D. I have heard of people who believe it is the work of the devil, or demon worshipping, but nothing more than that. Then there are the old stories of kids who commit suicide after their character gets killed. Mostly hokum, I think.

My kids, my nephew, my older daughter's best friend, and a good friend of mine, have been playing a single campaign now for the last 8 years. It was the single wisest thing I ever did back 8 years ago when I said to my kids, "You know, I used to play a game..."

Traps? You want traps? Use a spiked pit trap with a twist. Make it upside down (reverse gravity). The pit is in the ceiling and when they step under it they are swept UP into the spikes.

Use a narrow corridor with spines facing along the path. Gradually the spines make it so they cannot turn around or leave. Have the corridor lead to a monster they will HAVE to fight.

My favorite is the trap that isn't. Consider a hole, just large enough to get your hand into. Looking inside you can see a hilt. Sword? daggar? JUST a hilt? Can't tell. You Have to reach in and touch it to get it out. No looping wire or rope can enter the hole. And when some intrepid soul does reach in? Nothing happens.

Love the game. Next week we start working on the latest edition.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 06 May 01 - 10:15 PM

The promised mp3 can be found at

http://members.home.net/sword4hire/D&D.mp3

Enjoy eh!

;-)

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Matt_R
Date: 06 May 01 - 09:49 PM

What about the Downey Stare? Some role-playing games already have it! It was invented by my friend Ryan and truly is heart-shriveling.

Myself, I don't go in for this kind of stuff. Give me Aces of The Pacific anyday!

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Benjamin
Date: 06 May 01 - 09:46 PM

Oh great, so I mispelled orcs! Just rub it in with a story of some curse! That should make everybody happy!

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: GUEST,Moobear
Date: 06 May 01 - 08:48 PM

We use to have a ring of Cha! or Choo! as the situation dictated. This occurred one night as I was DMing and I was about to announce a found treasure when a sneeze came right after I said "A Ring of...(sneeze here)". A new treasure or curse came into being. You could give some hapless character this ring and have them sneeze (60-75%) at inopportune moments, such as when there is a horde of orcs around the corner.

Moobear

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Benjamin
Date: 06 May 01 - 07:25 PM

Have you tried an ambush of orks yet? Sorry, I haven't played this game since 7th grade. Use to love it back in elementry.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Giac
Date: 06 May 01 - 07:18 PM

How about some of the older things, such as Trapper, which flattens out like the floor and then rolls up, enfolding the hapless adventurer; Lurker Above, same thing, sort of, only it drops from the ceiling of the dungeon to smother its victims. Both are nearly impossible to detect (90-95%) and scare the wits out of those so attacked. These are seldom used anymore, at least in my experience. Most young people concentrate on the newer perils and forget about the old standbys. And two of my old favorites, gray ooze and green slime. Not very exciting maybe, but if one turns to green slime after the attack, resurrection is not possible.

wdya12 - you're right about the raids. About 10 years ago some of my friends were arrested, about 30 minutes after I left, following a D&D session. "Someone" had "said" they were devil worshipers, etc., etc., and the police felt it was their duty to arrest them. They (police) confiscated all the D&D books, notes, maps, and also an album of photos of all of us at a party, dressed as our favorite characters. Somewhere in the local dungeons are several photos of me as a half-elf fighter/thief. My friends were held for several hours and extensively interrogated. Oh yes, it does happen.

Yours truly,
Guida Biffo

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: MMario
Date: 06 May 01 - 06:46 PM

well - there is the virus in the dust routine; so they gradually sicken - if they don't figure out what it is they are so weak before they even notice they can't do anything...

what about a cursed bodrhan or banjo?

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Peg
Date: 06 May 01 - 05:26 PM

I have not played this game since graduate school! what a great way to waste time..

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Caitrin
Date: 05 May 01 - 01:36 PM

*grins* Actually, wdyat, I am the Devil.
Okay, not really.
But anyway.
The mp3 sounds like fun, Clinton. thanks! *grins* Have y'all ever seen Knights of the Dinner Table? Check it out, if you haven't--it's a pretty fun bit of flash animation.

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 05 May 01 - 01:03 PM

I'll come back tomorrow and upload an MP3 I have about D&D... and link to it from here... You folks can download it and have a listen to what REALLY goes on at a D&D game!

It's a scream!!

LOL!!

Subject: RE: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: wdyat12
Date: 05 May 01 - 12:52 PM

Caitrin,

Don't you realize that D&D is the work of the Devil? Beware the Christian Right. They came knocking on my door one day and dragged one of my son's friends off in the middle of the game.

wdyat12

Subject: Utter BS: Dungeons and Dragons
From: Caitrin
Date: 05 May 01 - 12:13 PM

Okay, all you D&D geek 'catters...I need some help. I just got drafted into my first attempt at DMing, and I'm running out of ideas for traps. I've got a crew of level 7s, two warriors, a druid, an engineer, a mage, and a thief, making their way through a big nasty maze of tunnels. Got any brilliant trap ideas?