Lyr Add: You Jacobites by Name

Subject: Lyr Add: YOU JACOBITES BY NAME^^
From: Bruce O.
Date: 01 Dec 97 - 11:12 PM

[From: 'The Battle of Falkirk Garland' "printed in the year 1746". No publisher's name, or place of publication. The song below is the 1st of 3 songs in the chapbook. The song following that below is to the tune of "My heart's in the Highlands". The chorus of Burn's "My heart's in the highlands", in DT, and "Bonny Portmore", in DT, are fragments of the same song, and I'll try to remember to post the full original tomorrow, "The highlander's farewell to bonny port more".]

An Excellent new Song on the Jacobites, and the
Opression of the Rebels.

^^^

To the Tune of, Captain Kid.

You Jacobites by Name, now give Ear, now give Ear,
You Jacobites by Name, now give Ear;
You Jacobites by Name, your Praise I will proclaim,
Some says you are to blame for this Wear.

With the Pope you covenant, as they say, as they say,
With the Pope you covenant, as they say,
With the Pope you covenant, and Letters there you sent,
Which made your Prince present to array.

Your Prince and Duke o'Perth, where they go, where they go,
Your Prince and Duke o'Perth, where they go,
Your Prince and Duke o'Perth, they're Cumb'rers o' the Earth,
Causing great Hunger and Dearth where they go.

He is the King of Reef, I'll declare, I'll declare,
He is the King of Reef, I'll declare,
He is the King of Reef, of a Robber and o' Thief,
To rest void of Relief when he's near.

They marched thro' our Land cruelly, cruelly,
They marched thro' our Land cruelly,
They marched thro' our Land with a bloody thievish Band
To Edinburgh then they wan Treachery.

To Preston then they came, in a Rout, in a Rout,
To Preston then they came, in a Rout;
To Preston then they came, brave Gard'ner murd'red then.
A Traitor did command, as we doubt.

To England then they went, as bold, as bold,
To England then they went, as bold;
To England then they went, and Carlisle they ta'en't,
The Crown they fain would ha'en't, but behold.

To London as they went, on the Way, on the Way,
To London as they went, on the way,
To London as they went, in a Trap did there present,
No battle they will stent, for to die.

They turned from that Place, and they ran, and they ran,
They turned from that Place, and they ran;
They turned from that Place as the Fox, when Hounds do chace.
They tremble at the Name, CUMBERLAN'.

To Scotland then they came, when they fly, when they fly,
To Scotland then they came, when they fly,
To Scotland then they came, and they robb'd on every Hand,
By Jacobites Command, where they ly.

When Duke William does command, you must go, you must go;
When Duke William does command, you must go;
When Duke William does command, then you must leave the Land,
Your Conscience in your Hand like a Crow.

Tho' Carlisle ye took by the Way, by the Way;
Tho' Carlisle ye took by the Way;
Tho' Carlisle ye took, short Space ye did it Brook,
These Rebels got a Rope on a Day.

The Pope and Prelacy, where they came, where they came,
The Pope and Prelacy, where they came;
The Pope and Prelacy, they rul'd with Cruelty,
They ought to hing on high for the same.

Subject: RE: LYRIC ADD: You Jacobites by name
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Nov 02 - 07:53 AM

Subject: RE: LYRIC ADD: You Jacobites by name
From: GUEST,Boab
Date: 03 Nov 02 - 04:33 AM

The lyrics presented by Robert Burns are those most favoured, I think, by most performers.

Subject: RE: LYRIC ADD: You Jacobites by name
From: Tam the bam fraeSaltcoatsScotland
Date: 03 Nov 02 - 05:52 AM

Here's a link ://www.acronet.net/~robokopp/scottish/yejacobi.htm

Tom

Subject: RE: LYRIC ADD: You Jacobites by name
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 02 - 08:39 AM

The ones by Burns are the only ones known to most (or all?) performers.

Subject: RE: LYRIC ADD: You Jacobites by name
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 03 Nov 02 - 03:27 PM

And the interesting thing about Burns's re-writing of the song is the way that he tones down the bigotry of the earlier version, and turn the song into something that isn't so much anti-Jacobite as post-Jacobite.

The message implicitly becomes that it was time for Scots to move on from a divisive past, and unite for the future.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: billbunter
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 01:31 PM

Absolutely, McGrath of Harlow . Many people think this a pro Jacobite song but you put it in a nutshell. I always read Burn's versions as some kind of hit on moaning old Jacobites - a prompt to get on with their lives and look to the future.

I find these lyrics excellent though. Might put them on my next CD although I'm not sure modern taste would accept umpteen verses

Subject: Lyr Add: YE JACOBITES BY NAME (from Robert Burns)
From: Jim Lad
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 03:05 PM

^^^ Ye Jacobites by name, give an ear, give an ear,
Ye Jacobites by name, give an ear,
Ye Jacobites by name,
Your fautes I will proclaim,
Your doctrines I maun blame, you shall hear.

What is Right, and What is Wrang, by the law, by
the law?
What is Right and what is Wrang by the law?
What is Right, and what is Wrang?
A short sword, and a lang,
A weak arm and a strang, for to draw.

What makes heroic strife, famed afar, famed afar?
What makes heroic strife famed afar?
What makes heroic strife?
To whet th' assassin's knife,
Or haunt a Parent's life, wi' bluidy war?

Then let your schemes alone, in the state, in the state,
Then let your schemes alone in the state.
Then let your schemes alone,
Adore the rising sun,
And leave a man undone, to his fate

Robert Burns

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: TRUBRIT
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 10:28 PM

I have both Ewan McColl and The Corries doing this song -- quite different versions but both really interesting to listen to.......it's just a great song!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: masato sakurai
Date: 15 Jan 07 - 11:13 PM

From YouTube, Ally Mcgregor - "Jacobites by name".

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: jacqui.c
Date: 16 Jan 07 - 08:22 AM

I have a friend at the Hertford folk club who does this song beautifully. Great words, terrific tune.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: GUEST,Christian
Date: 24 Jan 07 - 06:25 PM

I played this song in a session with Joe Dowling this year at the Lake Charles Celtic Festival. I didn't know it, and he gave me about ten seconds to learn it. XD It was fun, though. Great song.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 08:13 AM

saw this thread on the page and thought I'd move it to the top as 25 Jan is Burns Day

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: An Buachaill Caol Dubh
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 10:20 AM

I find it utterly incredible that McGrath and bunter can trot out that unconvincing pro-Union line about "unite..and look to the future", and expect anyone to take them seriously. Look at the second verse for as neat an encapsulation of "Realpolitik" as one could find. True it is that Burns rises above the explicit religious bigotry of the contemporary version; indeed, he rises above organized, "revealed" religion entirely in the final commendation of Deism, or something like it, at the rear. But to see this version of "Ye Jacobites" as somehow pro-Union is as foolish, or deliberately devious, as to claim Burns's true views on "Great Britain" and Union are found in "The Dumfries Volunteers" (without drawing attention to the specific historical circumstances and clever irony of the song) rather than "A Parcel of Rogues". But there are plenty of British politicians who attempt it, and I would roll over laughing if it were not that they and their hangers-on and fellow-travellers still occupy positions of influence and power. Still, Burns's "Letters" remain as evidence clear and convincing of his own views on Union &c; if any explicit refutation of the two views from some years ago be needed, ye'll find them there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: GUEST,Scot Nat
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 12:16 PM

Ooooh, someone's trolling! Or maybe, like me, sick to the back teeth with Unionist Brits trying to cliam Rabbie as one of them, which gets particularly sickening this time of year. Go for it, Black Boy.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 08:52 PM

"The message implicitly becomes that it was time for Scots to move on from a divisive past, and unite for the future."

Nothing remotely "pro-Union" in that. Quite the reverse in fact. And I have little doubt that would have been how Burns would have seen it.   The Union has always been dependent on "divide and rule", in relation to Scotland, to Ireland, and to Wales.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: michaelr
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 08:45 PM

Since Burns was born almost 14 years after the final defeat of the Jacobite army at Culloden, I'm wondering whom he was addressing in this song?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: ollaimh
Date: 06 Jan 11 - 10:03 PM

i do mean to write lyrics that are pro jacobite.we were the last scots willingto fight for freedom .

now scots unite after having participated in the ethnic cleansing ofthe highlands, and shipping the survivors to slavery or to coffin ships to canada ==where we did survive against all odds.

the great irony is thwt few scotts care about the fae of the gaels whilst most of their cultural icons come from gaelic culture

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 06:51 AM

I remember Ian McCalman introducing it as a "Jacobite ear-swapping song"

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: GUEST,Allan Con
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 10:08 AM

Ollaimh - the Jacobite rebellions were not national struggles. They were civil wars both within Britain and within Scotland itself. There were many varying reasons why people ended up the sides they did.

The vast majority of Scots had nothing to do with the Highland Clearances which was principlally a class rather than a ethnic episode. Whether people were moved off the land in the highlands or the lowlands or in fact elsewhere they were moved off by a tiny landed elite. And they didn't go just overseas. Vast numbers of Scots are descended from both Gaels and non-Gaels alike.

Your great irony simply isn't fact. People from solely Gaelic culture are way under-represented as icons in general Scottish consciousness. St Columba and a few very early kings but not many of those are true icons to ordinary Scots. At a later period outside of Flora MacDonald and perhaps Rob Roy most folk would be hard pressed to come up with many other Gaelic icons as far as historical persons go. The vast bulk would be hard pressed to come up with any gaelic literary icon. How many Scots know Sorely Maclean's work or even less likely poets from the 17thC or 18thC? The vast bulk of real icons, both historical and literary are either totally from non-Gaelic culture or at best (ie Bruce) are only partly of gaelic culture. I'm not saying that is a good thing but it is fact and almost the opposite of what you suggest.

As for Scots not caring then just because we don't wallow in victimhood and self pity over something that happened or perhaps happened centuries ago doesn't mean we don't care.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: GUEST,Guest: Sgurr MacAonach
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 10:13 AM

To Ollaimh

Just remember it was the clan chieftains themselves, especially the Duchess of Sutherland, who were responsible for most of the highland clearances. And the best thing the English ever did for the Scots was get rid of the Stuarts

Saor (Republican) Alba!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: GUEST,Allan Con
Date: 07 Jan 11 - 10:15 AM

"Since Burns was born almost 14 years after the final defeat of the Jacobite army at Culloden, I'm wondering whom he was addressing in this song?"

He's simply writing in a Whig persona condemning the rebellion of old. He more often wrote in a Jacobite persona. Or sometimes as a neutral bystander "Battle of Sharramuir"

Quite a lot (let's face it probably most) Jacobite songs don't come from the jacobite period itself. Once the events were out of the way later writers even than Burns (for eg Hogg and Scott) glamorised the events and wrote songs about them.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: ollaimh
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 02:32 PM

Clan chief sold out to the British Empire. That doesn't change that it was the British Empire and their lowland collaborators who committed the atrocities.

Modern Brits are geniuses at spinning responsibility for the past genocide of Gaels in Ireland and Scotland. But it remains just that: spin. The religiously intolerant forces of the empire were destroying the ethnic and religious opponents everywhere.

The empire was an intolerant and discriminating and persecuting force and it still is in Northern Ireland. No one is allowing in the past, it's not over yet. If I saw a few more Scots standing up for social justice and human rights in Ireland I'd be a lot happier. Instead they line up to spin that the millennial war of the English against Gaels and religious dissenters had nothing to do with the rebellions and the destruction of the Gaels had nothing to do with the clearances. Those were just happy coincidences. They conveniently got rid of the people the English hated so much and the Scots landlords (and only with English law and guns to effect it) coincidentally got rich off the clearances.

What hogwash that it had nothing to do with genocidal ethnic cleansing.

And finally yes Scots love the Gaelic culture, the bagpipes, the fiddle tunes the songs styles the Gaelic language the dance all appropriated from the Gaelic culture while they turned their backs on the genocide. Lowland Scots are living sell out to empire who didn't have the courage to build a country.

We Gaels had the courage to build a country, and we did: it's called Canada. So fuck you obfuscators and cowards.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: ollaimh
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 03:04 PM

I would add that the Jacobites and the Stuarts supported religious tolerance and ethnic tolerance, whilst the Hanoverians and most English at the time openly supported ethnic discrimination and religious discrimination and intolerance. It was a war between totalitarianism and diversity and between the laissez faire capitalist empire and a more inclusive view.

In addition the clearances were done with the introduction of English land law to Scotland. The peasants had rights to the land under old Scottish law that had Brehon law precedents. Remember all the Jacobites' slogans said: "For Scotland, King AND LAW;" that was no coincidence. Sellout landlords had been attempting for decades or more to subvert the local restrictions on them and to destroy the rights of the peasants but they were only able to do it after the elimination of Scots land law and that was done with military force first and primary.

Lots of Scots made a buck off the ethnic cleansing. To use that as a justification shows how indoctrinated to the empire lowland Scots became. They sat on their hand while a racist and religiously intolerant regime destroyed a whole culture and they still justify it today when they should be a least critical and really I would hope it's time for a few apologies.

But when Anglos do genocide it's all ok, it's only Turks or Germans who get hung with that noose.

Remembering what happened is important, remembering history is the first step to an ethical society in the present.

As Milan Kundera said: "The struggle to remember IS THE STRUGGLE AGAINST TYRANNY."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: GUEST,Allan Con
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 06:28 PM

Ollaimh shouting in capitals doesn't improve your argument which is based on myths tempered by half truths - which the best myths always are.

Again people were moved off the land all over Britain as a whole and within Scotland itself. It was not restricted to the Highlands. Both the Highlands and the Southern Uplands, and even to a lesser extent the north-eastern Lowlands, now form a far smaller percentage of the Scottish population than they did in let's say the 18thC. There are now vast cities in central Scotland which did not exist in the 18thC. Where do you think their populations came from? Part of it was a movement from rural Scotland. In the Borders people moved off the land into planned communities (like Gavinton and Newcastleton) just as similar communities were set up on the coastal Highlands. Probably because proximity to markets etc the Border experiments were more successful than the schemes in the Highlands where the economy later collapsed. Despite that and despite the rise of Border mill towns etc Berwickshire still had an overall decline comparable with any mainland Highland county!

There were early instances of Highland Chiefs trying to sell clansmen off as slaves. Later chiefs often attempted to stop people emigrating. We all know that there was then people forced, and some even burned, out of their homes. No one is denying that or supporting it. It is plain wrong to blame 'the English' or Lowlanders for that though. I repeat it was a class issue. A small landed elite who more often than not were themselves Highlanders were responsible for what went on in their estates. No-one alive today, be it Highlander, Lowlander or Englishman is responsible and no-one alive today is a victim. So drop the chip.

And I'm sorry I won't have some Canadian lecture me about empire. We all know that western European countries built empires and it is something few would defend now. My direct paternal ancestor left the Highlands in the late 18thC and moved to the Lowlands where he married a local lass and they staid there. So your ancestors left Scotland and built a new country – but hey, it was built on land which had belonged to Native Canadians. Glass houses springs to mind.   

You've already showed your ignorance of Scottish history in your first post but go further in claiming that 'the Stuarts' supported religious tolerance. The facts don't stand up. Charles I caused massive convulsions within Scotland by his obsession with trying to force Anglicanism on a mostly unwilling Scotland. After the Restoration both Charles II and especially James VII (more so prior to his becoming king) suppressed and persecuted Presbyterians especially in southern Scotland. Best to go by what they did when in power rather than by what the said when out of power and trying to win back support. Also the idea that the Jacobites were opposing totalitarianism is plainly ludicrous. The Stuart Pretenders still clung to the idea of Divine Right. They claimed their accident of birth gave them the automatic right to absolute power in Britain. On the other hand the last Stuarts (ie William and Mary then Anne) and then the Hanovarian successors accepted the idea of constitutional monarchy. They may not have liked it, and it maybe had some way to go, but it was a big advance on the idea of Divine Right.

As to the rebellions themselves. As I said it is completely wrong to describe them as a Scottish versus English struggle. They were civil wars. Likewise within Scotland itself it was not a Highland versus Lowland struggle. The 1715 rebellion if anything was probably as much Lowland as Highland. Many of the Jacobites came from the Episcopalian north-eastern Lowlands and even recruitment was pretty successful in the Borders as well over the border in Northumberland. There were also plenty of Highlanders on the govt side. The 45 started off principally as a Highland affair but by the time of Cullloden a fair percentage of the army came from elsewhere. Charles was much less successful in getting English recruits than the 15 had been. Again in the 45 there were plenty of Highlanders on the govt side. It is simply biscuit tin history to suggest otherwise. There was severe repression after the 45 ( the govt had been relatively easy on the earlier rebellions for the times ) which again no-one nowadays would even try to support. However to somehow lay down the line that this directly caused the collapse of the Highland population is simply incorrect. The fact of the matter is that the population of the Highlands, despite emigration, rocketed after the 1750s and didn't hit a peak until about 1840 almost a full century after Culloden. Yes it can be said that events speeded up the change of attitude of the Highland landed elite from clan base ideas to a landlord standpoint – but even that process was already taking place in the decades prior to the 45. Especially so in the south-west Highlands.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 09:09 PM

This kind of argument doesn't belong in a music thread.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by name
From: Effsee
Date: 08 Jan 11 - 10:16 PM

Maybe not Jim, but Allan has fair put ollaimh's rant's "gas at a peep", as us old timers would say!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by Name
From: GUEST,Allan Con
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 02:21 AM

"This kind of argument doesn't belong in a music thread."

You are obviously right JIm, and I apologise, but I just thought points needed to be addressed. (ie for instance Scots now unite after participating in ethnic cleansing) I don't mean to go against etiquette so in this instance would it be better to take the quotation one is addressing and start a new thread in the non music part of the forum?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by Name
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 11:33 AM

It looks like the comments section of a typical youtube video.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by Name
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 09 Jan 11 - 11:59 AM

A lot of history has been romanticized. Many people on the other side
of the pond think that it was strictly a Scottish vs English affair,
and the clearances were brought out all by the English. This is because
19th century books have romanticized it.

Other examples include in the Scottish heavy-weight competitions, that
the Scottish hammer was used as a weapon, when it was used as a farming
tool. (Quoting a highland games competitor). And, tartans used to
distinguish which clan you were from. Well, I'm pretty sure that the
"clan tartan" concept is a romanticized concept, too.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: You Jacobites by Name
From: ollaimh
Date: 10 Feb 11 - 01:39 PM

i didn't decsribe the war as scottish versus english, it was gael versus sassenachen.

the empire of laissez faire capitalism was getting going with its first effective genocides and they did start with their own people in the englkish clearances movement. that however does not change they came with the gun to drive people into the sea.

pm our end gross isle in the mouth of the st lawrence has the graves of a quarter million gaels who arrived to ill to do anything but die with pout a lok at canada because the facilities for the ethniclly cleansed gaels. this was the strazt of what is still going on. ie have you seen the wikki leaks video of the laissez farie american military shooting civiliand from helicopters and laughing about it. that included children.

to say this doesn't belong on a music thread is to give lyrics no real meaning at all. of course the somnambulant live that way. if you hide your head in the sand the monster won't kill you. well the monster kills what ever gets in its way. if you are near the source of powere you get good pay and toys but you are required to "not talk about what really went on historically and what is still going on.

the highland ckearances were genocide. no quible chaNGES THAT. AND NO GENOCIDE EXPERT WOULD DISAGREE. IT GETS A LITTLE RICH WHEN THE ENGLISH OR AMERICANS GET RIGHTEOUS ABOUT THIER SUPPORT FOR CIVIL RIGHTS WHEN THEY ARE AMOMNG THE WORST ABUSERS OF RIGHTS IN HISTORY

AND I'LL CAPITALIZE WHEN EVER I WANT