Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: Tattie Bogle Date: 31 Jan 22 - 04:44 AM Very sadly, Norma has very recently passed away, as reported by Eliza on Facebook this morning: see the new Obit thread. Apologies for giving any false hope in my post above only hours ago. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: YorkshireYankee Date: 30 Jan 22 - 08:26 PM Backwoodsman has posted the following on the Carthy Family needs assistance thread: Norma is ‘extremely poorly’, and back in hospital. From Eliza’s FB page last night… ”Hi, Mam has taken a turn. She phoned us this morning sounding full of the joys of Spring, but later in the afternoon she became very feverish and confused, had a seizure and is unconscious. She has had a CT scan and her brain is fine, they were worried it was bleeding because of the fall she had five days ago. It's also not a chest infection so they are stumped as to what it is. Dad has been allowed to go to her, he's going to hold her hand all night. He says she's aware that he is there as she occasionally squeezes his hand, but I do need to let you know that she is extremely poorly and the doctor say that the next 48 hours will be crucial. She's on very hefty antibiotics and antiviral medicine, and he says it's all in hand. But please, keep her in your thoughts tonight. I have to stay here with the children but hopefully I will be able to see her tomorrow. Love from us. Xxxxe” Every good thought for the Carthy family. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: RTim Date: 30 Jan 22 - 08:24 PM Not so...She wrote this yesterday.... Hi, Mam has taken a turn. She phoned us this morning sounding full of the joys of Spring, but later in the afternoon she became very feverish and confused, had a seizure and is unconscious. She has had a CT scan and her brain is fine, they were worried it was bleeding because of the fall she had five days ago. It's also not a chest infection so they are stumped as to what it is. Dad has been allowed to go to her, he's going to hold her hand all night. He says she's aware that he is there as she occasionally squeezes his hand, but I do need to let you know that she is extremely poorly and the doctor say that the next 48 hours will be crucial. She's on very hefty antibiotics and antiviral medicine, and he says it's all in hand. But please, keep her in your thoughts tonight. I have to stay here with the children but hopefully I will be able to see her tomorrow. Love from us. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: Tattie Bogle Date: 30 Jan 22 - 07:54 PM Rather better news in a post Eliza put on her Facebook page 6 days ago: “Well, this is looking up! We’re FINALLY testing negative, and they will be releasing the mother TOMORROW! Fingers crossed that we may be able to start our year tomorrow. Yippee ?????? “ |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: keberoxu Date: 30 Jan 22 - 07:46 PM Norma Waterson is still hanging in there. Information from 12 January about how this latest crisis happened (on the Facebook page for Eliza Carthy's Wayward Band): "God I hate doing this. But you know I know -- our dear friends -- where we have been for the past dozen years [since the lengthy hospitalization for septicaemia/cellulitis]... our dear friend Mary Katherine has suggested I set up a portal for help, if you want... "You might have picked up that mam has COVID -- pretty certain I brought it into the house from having tests at Scarborough Hospital. All five of us have it now: folks, two kids, and me. "Mam was taken in [to hospital] yesterday, delirious and with pneumonia. We are supposed to be doing our first gigs of the year this weekend, and we don't know ... " I am having trouble locating a link to the update that is most recent. The one that says, "Mam has taken a turn." |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: r.padgett Date: 30 Jan 22 - 10:05 AM Please say a prayer for Norma, Martin and Eliza ~ Norma is very poorly at the moment Ray |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: Jeri Date: 30 Jan 22 - 09:18 AM Refreshatrix strikes again |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: GUEST,James Phillips Date: 30 Jan 22 - 09:02 AM Laughing at someone saying Norma Waterson "can't sing" in this thread. She has a very fine English folk voice. I frequently come across old recordings of folk singers who were said to be legendary in their circle, and have thought "my god, this person really cannot hold a note or a tune to save their life" and in fact sometimes I've even thought it was a quite horrible, scratchy sound. But Norma Waterson can most definitely hold a note and can articulate a melody very well. No she doesn't have the same kind of highly technical, smooth as butter ornamentation style that June Tabor has. But they are completely different kinds of folk singer. It's like trying to compare Suzi Quatro with Joni Mitchell. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: keberoxu Date: 28 Jan 22 - 06:44 PM The entire Waterson/Carthy household has been getting attention -- in more recent threads -- with cancellations and postponements, the whole household testing positive for the coronavirus, need to raise funds, and so on. I'm using/refreshing this thread to focus on Norma Waterson. To sum up: When Norma's illness (possibly COVID) progressed to pneumonia, she went to hospital, and into isolation. Treatment with steroids/antibiotics proceeded. The rest of the Carthys did not need hospitalization but they had to stay home and keep testing. Finally the tests came up negative. Martin Carthy has had to cancel/postpone/reschedule repeatedly. He is now testing negative for coronavirus and feeling better. On 28 January, Eliza Carthy posted this Tweet: So sorry. Mam still isn't out of the hospital . . . rescheduled to 12 Feb. That possibly explains why Martin Carthy has postponed his online/streaming performance to the end of February. Mr. Carthy DID however get in a live performance recently. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: GUEST,ottery Date: 25 Aug 20 - 04:58 AM Thanks for sharing the update, keberoxu. V. glad to hear Norma Waterson is recovering well from the op. I've never met her, but recordings of her + family singing have been with me since childhood. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: keberoxu Date: 24 Aug 20 - 09:26 PM Eliza Carthy, on her own webpages, reports that the recent lockdown provided the long-postponed opportunity for Norma Waterson to have what Eliza calls "the long-awaited heart operation." Eliza's report is dated 18 July, 2020 and says that Norma Waterson is recovering at home, "so she's still tucked up while me and Dad and the kids just orbit around her, like the sun. A sleepy, sometimes grumpy sun but a sun nonetheless!" |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: GeoffLawes Date: 03 Dec 19 - 09:30 AM YOUTUBE Norma Waterson - An Introduction to Norma Waterson |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: Tattie Bogle Date: 29 Nov 19 - 07:15 PM Martin and Eliza were performing in Edinburgh last Sunday: sadly I had to miss it, but heard they were "on fire"! |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: Steve Gardham Date: 29 Nov 19 - 04:13 PM Norma occasionally chips in here. Hopefully she'll let us know how the op goes. (Positive news hopefully.) |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: GUEST,keberoxu Date: 29 Nov 19 - 02:52 PM My apologies if this sounds intrusive, I know many of you are protective of Norma Waterson (and who better to be protective of!). I understand that the scheduled 2019 Normafest in Whitby was cancelled because Norma Waterson had been scheduled for an operation to do with her heart. of course I join those who wish Herself better and well, and I hope there will be, in the future, Normafests again, with Norma Waterson. Thanks. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: GUEST,keberoxu Date: 31 Oct 17 - 02:39 PM If I can provide the blicky link, the same newspaper more recently published an in-depth interview with Eliza Carthy. Reading this account was the first time that I heard the information: that "The Moral of the Elephant," recorded with Martin Carthy and Eliza Carthy -- father and daughter -- alone together, was the compromise decided upon when the original plan fell through: previously Norma Waterson was to reunite with husband and daughter for tne next album together, and when Norma's health did not permit at the time, the other two simply had to record without her. That's news to me. Here's the story, I hope. Eliza Carthy, 28 May 2017 |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: GUEST Date: 05 Apr 16 - 07:29 AM Saw Norma and family at Scarborough recently; she was on top form. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: Kampervan Date: 05 Apr 16 - 02:33 AM http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/what-s-on/music/a-special-gift-for-music-1-7017468 Link for Kereboxu's post above. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: GUEST,HiLo Date: 04 Apr 16 - 01:51 PM I sawher live, with Eliza, a number of years ago in Bodmin, fantastic evening. Also saw Martin at a pub in Truro, highlights of my musical life... |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: keberoxu Date: 04 Apr 16 - 12:26 PM If it's updated information you want, this interview is pretty good. http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/what-s-on/music/a-special-gift-for-music-1-7017468 I thought of recommending this interview on another, more recent thread. But that thread is called Norma Waterson Unwell, and it would make people panic to see the thread-name again. So leave that thread be, and add to this one. I've never seen Norma live, only her husband Martin Carthy. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: The Sandman Date: 22 Aug 10 - 01:24 PM here is anotherv version of rambleway or burlington fair a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B_7pdBB-ts">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B_7pdBB-ts not as good as Normas version, but not bad. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: The Sandman Date: 22 Aug 10 - 10:36 AM well i never heard her[JT] sing Flash Company, But she[JT] used to be very good singing the song The Band played Waltzing Matilda. In my opinion[JT] can on occasions be superb. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: Steve Gardham Date: 21 Aug 10 - 05:09 PM Dick, JT is June Tabor. I can assure you Norma was great friends with many of the old source singers, particularly Walter Pardon. Many of the family's songs were obtained directly from the source singers themselves. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson - information wanted From: The Sandman Date: 21 Aug 10 - 04:39 PM Flash Company, that was a song percy webb and also cyril poacher used to sing. who is JT,is this a popular music singer? IMO it is always interesting to hear the source singers singing the songs,Iwould be surprised if Norma Waterson hasnt listened to source singers such as percy webb, singing Flash Company.Dick Miles |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Steve Gardham Date: 20 Aug 10 - 05:40 PM Norma with all the family at Hull Truck, Sunday. Bloody brilliant! JT murdering 'Flash Company' Wednesday, Folk on 2. Absolute crap! How's that for subjective? |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Manitas_at_home Date: 20 Aug 10 - 11:21 AM The Butcher Boy. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Ruth Archer Date: 20 Aug 10 - 11:19 AM The song is Rambleaway, and it's on the Waterson:Carthy album Common Tongue. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: GUEST Date: 20 Aug 10 - 11:10 AM Got it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxsXMZSiVSY any idea which album this is on? |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Howard Jones Date: 20 Aug 10 - 11:03 AM That description covers about 50% of all folk songs. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: GUEST Date: 20 Aug 10 - 11:00 AM No this isn't the one but thanks the one i want is quite a fast folky song with the young girl falling for some roving type guy. She gets pregnant then he leaves her. at the end there is a warning to other young maidens who meet this type of feller thanks in advance |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Bupkes Date: 20 Aug 10 - 09:49 AM It's called A Bunch of Thyme , and this is on YouTube. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: GUEST Date: 20 Aug 10 - 09:39 AM Hello can anyone help me We used to have an album with norma singing a song about a young maiden who fell for a bloke (she called him by a name)but i cant remember.In the lyrics she says that so many months passed and then the girls apron ties wouldn't tie(meaning she got pregnant by this sweet talking rover type man. Then he left her. At the end she sings a warning to other young girls who meet this (dont know what she calls him) I have searched and searched but cannot find the song It must be at least 10 years old i think thanks in advance |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Bat Goddess Date: 21 Jul 09 - 10:59 AM I saw June Tabor on stage at a fairly small venue a number of years ago. After the second half of the concert (which was Garnet Rogers), and on my way out, I passed June Tabor sitting in the back of the room and spoke to her, complimenting her on her singing. Her response came across as cold, but my real impression is that she's very shy. Linn |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Dave Hanson Date: 21 Jul 09 - 09:25 AM June Tabor is a fine singer, I challenge anyone not to be moved by her version of ' Will Ye Go To Flanders ' unfortuntely her recent recordings are over dramatised and histrionic with alien arrangements, the sooner she starts singing like a real person again the better. Dave H |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: GUEST,Elmore Date: 21 Jul 09 - 08:02 AM Elizabeth Laprelle is better than both of 'em put together, and she was only 13 in 2001. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: banjoman Date: 21 Jul 09 - 07:12 AM On the couple of occasions I have heard Norma Waterson in concert she has come accross as a warm and caring person and this shows in the way she speaks to her audience and sings. As for June Tabor - just the opposite I would not go to the end of our street to see or hear her. I think that her reputation as a singer is very questionable and undeserved, |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Phil Cooper Date: 20 Jul 09 - 09:30 PM ????? |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Mr Happy Date: 20 Jul 09 - 09:33 AM From simple Chinese, its The vast domain éã � á› èÞ mows ã' éæ éú èã the benefit flaw � to run over with a vehicle www.mudcat.org, � èÞ ä„ following � holds �.�. ム� runs over with a vehicle grain ä€ bao bin clover �. âï fu four éã, áì mow Niu Eræˆ the � � éŠ xuan to carve � � á" the Guangdong � marrow yue éú? Emperor � runs over with a vehicle e runs over with a vehicle æã ���. ****************** Japanese gives ›Ž sillaginoid � á› clasp äŒ ã' shark éú èã åé àê � ç€ www.mudcat.org and � clasp ä„ ã‹ � çð �.�. ム� ç€ âì ä€ åî ã쳌 äð �. âï åÞ ãæ sillaginoid, áì äŒ button çŽ æˆ � � éŠ çé üG � & � á" âã � medulla broadax éú? Emperor � ç€ æ€ ç€ æã ���. ************ Simples!! ** |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: nickp Date: 20 Jul 09 - 09:25 AM eieio |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: fat B****rd Date: 20 Jul 09 - 09:11 AM Hopa !! |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Captain Ginger Date: 23 Apr 07 - 05:23 PM Good that this has come up again. I heard Eliza Carthy last week and thought' Blimey, isn't her voice like her mum's?' But, truth be known, it's maturing into something even better. There's a richness of timbre growing there that, by the time she's nearing 40, should make for a sensational voice. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: GUEST,meself Date: 22 Apr 07 - 08:09 PM I know this is an old thread, and this is a bit of a thread drift - but I want to find out about booking " Genghis Khan and the rampaging Mongol hordes", a possibility which was mentioned in an early post ... |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: GUEST,Roger Date: 20 May 01 - 09:04 AM Morning Challis ! I think the points you are making are valid enough, I just disagree with picking on a name ( poor Norma)to illustrate your point which could have been made more generally. So do please start a new thread (or several) on the very valid points you are making and I am sure there will be a lot of discussion, against and in favour Roger |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Nemesis Date: 20 May 01 - 08:14 AM Dear Winick, Thank you for that - a lot to digest (off-line as it's so comprehensive :) Okay, folks I'll leave you to your "Norma worship" (RinS), basically, though I just wanted to know WHY?(And I was never frustrated that only "trained singers should sing" - good grief, that would be a pretty small percentage). Cheerio an thanks, Hille x |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Roger in Sheffield Date: 20 May 01 - 05:36 AM The first time I heard Norma Waterson was on the Radio a few years ago. To me her voice is beautiful and sensual. Friends of mine have listened to the CDs (and liked them a lot) and asked why they have never heard of her before, one of my friends is 62 and hadn't heard Norma before! These were Normas solo CD's which are not traditional folk, one has a song by Freddy Mercury Anyway Challis perhaps you should start another thread to discuss what you wish to talk about as the title of this one may be excluding many people who may want to join in; you have also hijacked it from its original point (Norma worship - we are not worthy). Just what is your main frustration, that folk music is too stuck in the past (ie where are the new folk songs) or that only trained singers should sing? Roger |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: GUEST,Winick Date: 20 May 01 - 03:43 AM Challis, having thought more about your comment that the folk icons are the same people as 30 years ago, I think this is true, and for more reasons than I gave before as a somewhat naive defender of the genre. And I do sympathize with your frustration, having been there myself. But I've given up wishing folk music would get more hip and become more popular. As for the "money couldn't possibly be so tight," I'm afraid it is. If you look at the finances of an outfit like Topic records, you'll see that they couldn't possibly afford to develop artists the way a pop label can. Nobody gets rich on folk music, least of all a record company. We are talking vast, orders of magnitude differences in the audience numbers for pop albums and folk albums. Being by nature small, poor organizations, folk labels also have small staffs with very little turnover; Tony Engle's been head honcho at Topic for 30 years or more, and even before that he had creative input! This helps to explain why the artist rosters stay the same. Finally, in today's technological environment, a small-scale folk release can make more money for an unknown artist if he/she produces it him/herself without the involvement of a company. Distribution via internet and at gigs leads to smaller sales than being in shops, for sure, but with no label taking a cut you can often make more money anyway. What helps Norma and Martin Carthy and makes being with Topic worthwhile for them is precisely the fact that they are so established. They don't need the promotion to get their name known to the folk-buying customer in a Virgin Megastore. A new, unknown folkie would cost Topic a lot in promotion to get the name out there, which they then would charge to the artist. Many, many bands I know on established labels complain bitterly that they have to have an album to tour, and they have to tour to sell albums, but they never make any money on either! As for popularity, the sad fact is that traditional folk music had broad appeal for young people during only one period of the recorded-music age: about 1957 to about 1970. At that time, Skiffle and folk acted mainly as feeders into rock bands. Most of the singers who DID excite young people drifted from traditional songs to their own songs. So Bob Dylan, Judy Collins, Joan Baez, Marianne Faithfull, all went their own way and essentially created the singer-songwriter genre, which still attracts young people today. Guys who were into the blues, likewise, decided to write their own songs, so we got the Beatles, Clapton, Zeppelin, etc, instead of blues bands doing traditional music. These days, traditional songs are taken up by only a few youngsters (in the US, people like the members of Cordelia's Dad; in the UK Kate Rusby and Co). Even those who do take up trad songs often do the same thing their idols did, give them up for original songs. When I was a teen in the 1980s, I used to go to concerts by 10,000 Maniacs, and Natalie Merchant used to sing "Do You Love an Apple" and "Just as the Tide was a-flowing." By about 1985 she had stopped singing folksongs entirely. Likewise the Equation, who are kind of like a latter-day English 10,000 Maniacs. They could be doing folk music, but choose otherwise. So in the UK there was not a big movement after Norma's generation of people getting into folk, even despite Steeleye and Fairport rocking it up. There are always some folks (Oyster Band, Damien Barber, Kate Rusby, Karine Polwart, etc). But not very many. It just seems the songs have a limited appeal, and I have long since accepted this. Why should I expect young people today to enjoy "The Chaps of Cockaigny" like I do? They don't read the same books as I do or see the same films! In fact, there are many who argue pretty persuasively that if folksongs were to get more popular with young people, intense commercial pressures would spoil the very things I like about the genre. I don't 100% buy this, but I think it's possible. That being said, the person who is closest to that higher order of magnitude we're talking about is Kate Rusby, not June or Norma. Rusby's albums are released in the US (which paradoxically is a bigger market for English folk than England) on the Compass label, which is larger and better-promoted than June Tabor's US labels (Shanachie and Green Linnet). And none of Norma's traditional albums, alone, with Waterson:Carthy, or with the Watersons, have ever been released here at all; you have to buy the imports on Topic. So in terms of the money and promotion, it's definitely going to the young people. Finally, one thing that's encouraging to me is the fact that traditional song seems never to have been all that popular compared to pop music, going back to the last century. Yet here we are talking about it online. If you look at what the last generation of old-timers like Walter Pardon had to say, there was always a small cadre of people who cared about singing old songs, and the rest sang music-hall ditties, tin pan alley tunes, light opera, or nothing at all. When Walter was a young man, he had one uncle who sang traditional songs, and he had to learn all his songs off his uncle because he knew practically nobody else who cared for the songs (shame, Harry Cox lived not so far from Walter, but they never met). So that's not so different from today, and yet the tradition has survived. I predict there will be enough new voices to keep it alive until another revival period, and in the meantime I enjoy the old farts like Norma and Martin Carthy! The others of my own generation and younger don't understand my tastes, but then I don't understand theirs, either! Anyway, sorry for the long essay! Hang in there Challis! I do sympathize, and I agree Norma is not going to attract hordes of youngsters into folk. But I began to follow folk music pretty young (about 17 or so) and I have since spent literally thousands of my dollars on folk. There will always be more like me to keep it alive.
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Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: GUEST Date: 19 May 01 - 10:48 PM If anyone wishes to make up his/her own mind about this, there are Norma Waterson CDs (including her new one, "BRight Shiny Morning") available at Camsco. |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Nemesis Date: 19 May 01 - 06:51 PM Wow! We all seem to be pushing each other's buttons here! I have to admit I am coming from the technical approach here - and as I'm training as a singer and had heard so much about the Waterson's I was prepared to listen intently and learn what I could. Yup, you're probably right Winick (although I did study a fair amount about Roma culture from since oooh , 30 years ago when I was not as old as I am now). It just dismays me that ,okay - let's open up the discussion a little, that we still have the same icons in Folk as 30 odd years ago. Sure, Kate Rusby's coming along, but when I listen to the radio it is still (more or less) the same performers as 30 years ago and they are still doing the same stuff in the same way. Surely, like all things Folk should evolve/develop/ be a little more expansive? I think that it concerns me that the general public might listen to Norma (or who ever) and be turned off from what should be a fabulous genre. I mean, why is it that I can go out to a club/venue and hear superb hardworking, professional (as in they do it for a living) singers/musicians yet the record companies still pump out the same old stuff? Which is the music genre the public hear and think "Oh, that's Folk? Do/don't like that" Why aren't (Folk) record companies investing in and promoting new performers in the same way they do the established performers? I watched with horrified fascination the documentary about "Pop Stars", bemused at the amount of money being thrown at bland pop, surely money isn't so tight that folk record companies can't stick their necks out a bit? Cheers, Hille
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Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: Susanne (skw) Date: 19 May 01 - 06:32 PM I think Winick has more or less said it all, but I'll repeat the (for me) most important point: Not having a (classically or whatever) trained voice is not the same as being unable to sing. Therefore I cannot accept Challis' statement even with the qualifications. I suppose there are people who cannot sing - they hit the wrong notes, can't sustain them, lack rhythm etc even when singing God Save the Queen. But that's not what we're talking about here. We're talking particular tastes and cultures, as Winick has already pointed out. - Enough said! |
Subject: RE: Norma Waterson From: GUEST,Arkie Date: 19 May 01 - 06:22 PM I have been connected with a theater presenting traditional music for over 20 years. If I had a nickel, make that a dollar, for every time I have heard "So & So can't (sing, play, etc.)", I would be a wealthy man. That statement is inevitably made by an extremely narrow minded individual and meant to degrade. That is probably not the case here. Never-the-less, whenever I hear that statement, I also make a judgement. I remove the speaker from my list of people whose opinions I respect. To claim that Norma Waterson cannot sing is an opinion. A subjective opinion. A broad proclamation that so and so cannot sing actually tells more about the speaker than the subject. To say "I don't understand all the raving about Norma Waterson's voice. I have heard her and I was actually bored," is also an opinion, but a statement that can be accepted by most reasonable listeners. I cannot understand the need to proclaim that something one does not enjoy or understand as being unworthy, at least in a serious discussion. |
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