Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.

Subject: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 10 May 01 - 11:44 AM

Hi. For countless years I've seen the name "Fran Minkoff" (if I've spelled the name wrong..sorry) as co-writer with Freddie hellerman of some of my favourite songs. I'm curious. Is Fran a "he or she"? Is the person a working or marriage partner to Fred?

One of my great faves is called "Old Songs, New Songs" that I learned many years ago, and have just put back in my repertoire.

Thanks.

Rick

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 10 May 01 - 04:03 PM

anyone?

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 May 01 - 01:19 AM

Pretty please.

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 May 01 - 01:21 AM

Shit, Rick, I saw this when you first posted it and I don't have a clue. I have seen Hellerman's name before, but I don't know anything about the other.

Mick

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 May 01 - 01:27 AM

OK, Rick. I did a Dogpile search. CLICK HERE and scroll down the page to her name. I will continue on to see if I can find more.

Mick
Managing Partner
Fielding, Swan, Patterson & Lane
Layabouts at Large & For Hire

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: marty D
Date: 11 May 01 - 01:27 AM

Hellerman was a member of the Weavers, right? There's lots of information on them. Might it be there?

marty

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 May 01 - 01:42 AM

Yes, Hellerman was a member of the Weavers. He wrote any number of songs, including "Sinking of the Good Reuben James" with Woody Gutherie. He and Minkoff co-wrote "Povery Hill". But I am having a hard time coming up with bio info. Will keep trying.

Mick

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 May 01 - 01:48 AM

Thanks Mick and Marty. I'm doin' some more checkin' now. If Fran IS a lady she's definitely a mysterious one for someone who's co-written some memorable songs. Remember Healing River? POWERFUL song. Seeger sung it right after the little girls were killed in the Church burning.

Rick

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: SeanM
Date: 11 May 01 - 03:20 AM

Mr. Fielding,

I tried. Damn it, I tried. Dogpile, google, yahoo, alta vista (Yeah, I know. DP searches the last two, I tried just in case.)

Here is what I found:

Harry Belafonte & Friends, wherein you get a song listing and (among a TON of other people) find out that on this page, Ewan MacColl's major accomplishment in life was "Composer of 'The First Time Ever'.

That Fran is listed in the Sing Out! index, for at least "The Borning Day", v. 13#5 p.32

That a FortuneCity page that I'm not going to link to due to the MANY pop-up windows that are on it is one of the most useless bio pages I've ever seen - it lists name, that they co-wrote the above song, and nothing else - not even date of birth/death.

And that most search engines either give you no information, or upon requesting "Fran Minkoff" OR "Minkoff, Fran", the remainder will cheerfully assume that despite all assurances to the side, you really really need to see a list of EVERY SINGLE PAGE with "Fran" or "Minkoff" on them.

Wish I could be of more assistance. I'd say the "Sing Out!" lead may be the most useful.

Good luck in your search,

M

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 May 01 - 03:28 AM

Good man, Sean. I tried all the same places. I am now searching in my hardcopy library. I am fairly certain that Fran is a woman, based on how she is referred to in some of those same sites. But I can't confirm it yet. I will track this thing down, but I think it is going to be tricky.

Why ain't I in bed?????????

Mick

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: SeanM
Date: 11 May 01 - 03:31 AM

I saw some "Tin Pan Alley" references - not directly connected to Fran, but in the general vicinity. It may not mean anything, but is there a chance something in that area may turn up something?

M

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: flattop
Date: 11 May 01 - 07:09 AM

Frances?

(Come Away) Melinda (Frances Minkoff/Fred Hellerman) 5:08

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Tedham Porterhouse
Date: 11 May 01 - 09:10 AM

Big Mick,

I'm afraid that you're mistaken when you say that Fred Hellerman wrote "The Sinking of the Reuben James" *with* Woody Guthrie.

Fred would have been about 14 years old, and several years away from meeting Woody, when the song was written.

Years after the song was written, Fred wrote an additional verse for the Weavers version. With all due respect, adding a verse is not quite the same as co-writing.

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 May 01 - 09:23 AM

Thanks Ted. I wrote that early this morning, and didn't check the source thoroughly. I got the information off the same Fortune City site that Sean referenced and I should have checked it out further. A good lesson here for others with regard to accepting information at face value. Where did you get the bio info that allowed you to make the deduction on his age? Could it be a source for more info on Fran?

The search continues for a decent bio of this person!

Mick

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Tedham Porterhouse
Date: 11 May 01 - 09:55 AM

Big Mick,

Pete Seeger once mentioned to me that he met both Fred Hellerman and Ronnie Gilbert just after WWII when they became part of the folk revival scene. Pete also mentioned that Fred was eight years younger than he was. Since Pete was born in 1919, I took it that Fred must have been born around 1927 which would have made him about 14 when Woody, Pete and the Almanac Singers started singing "Reuben James."

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Big Mick
Date: 11 May 01 - 10:16 AM

Thank you, again, Tedham. I thought that, perhaps, you had gotten from a written source that I could reference. I would say this qualifies as a sterling first person resource. But, unfortunately, it doesn't help me with finding the bio data on Fran that I am looking for. Thanks for the quick response. You always provide first rate info. We are fortunate to have you as a member of our town.

Mick

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 11 May 01 - 10:42 AM

I've only got access to an old (1980) Who's Who in America which has Fred Hellerman in (only wife listed as Susan Lardner) and Minkoff isn't in.
Where's Frank Hamilton when you need him?
RtS

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Tedham Porterhouse
Date: 11 May 01 - 10:43 AM

Big Mick,

Thanks for the kind words.

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 11 May 01 - 11:35 AM

Thanks for the effort folks. Time to call off the search. And thanks Flattop, at least I mow KNOW she's a woman. I wanted to check her out three years ago and found nothing except the Belafonte stuff. Figured there might be stuff by now...but there ain't.

Also three years ago I was trying to answer someone's question about 12 string guitarist Fred Gerlach. There was diddly squat. Now there's tons of stuff.

Fran will remain a mystery.

Rick

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 11 May 01 - 11:44 AM

Rick, if you're near a large Library (Toronto central?) Gale Research put out scores of fat expensive specialist biographical tomes ("left-handed Peruvian banjo players in the US in 1980"- OK, I made that one up!)and they may have done one on composers, sure to have done one on US women...(we never could afford them here![the books not the US women, oh, hell you know what I mean!]).
RtS (two sets of brackets, is there no start to my talents?)

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: ray bucknell
Date: 11 May 01 - 02:31 PM

Fran Minkoff (who I had heretofore assumed was a man, but had no basis in fact for that opinion) and Fred Hellerman also wrote "Which Hat Shall I Wear?", a song dealing with school desegregation that, although written in the Sixties, holds up quite well today.

Ray

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Tedham Porterhouse
Date: 11 May 01 - 03:24 PM

Further to Fred Hellerman and "The Sinking of the Reuben James." In his book, "Where Have All the Flowers Gone: A Musical Autobiography," Pete Seeger says that Fred wrote the additional verse in the 1950s.

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST,Dan Becker
Date: 18 Sep 10 - 05:29 AM

I worked with Fran in the late 60s early 70's. She also wrote Business as Usual for Roberta Flack. She and her husband Harry ran Vacation Camp for the Blind in Spring Valley NY.   She and he told us stories how they would perform for money during the depression in movie theatres as a way of making money. As you know,her biggest association was with Hellerman. She would compose camp songs and whenever the campers would leave we would all sing Good Night Irene by Leadbelly for them. Nice lady.

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST,rustycookie
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 08:23 AM

I've been tying to get sheet music for "Business Goes on as Usual" without any luck. If it isn't available, can you reveal what key it is written in?

Your post was the most informative I've seen regardin this song and its composers.

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 01 Feb 11 - 09:37 PM

rustycookie, can't help you with sheet music or keys, but can tell you it was recorded by The Mitchell Trio back in the day.

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST,Dan Sparkman
Date: 17 Jun 11 - 09:13 AM

Fran Mirkoff is also credited as co-writer with Fred Hellerman of "Uncle Benny's Celebration", recorded by the Limeliters. The music of that song comes from an old Klezmer piece.

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 17 Jun 11 - 04:09 PM

Sadly, Fran Minkoff is no longer with us.

A search of the Social Security Interactive Death Index revealed she died April 22, 2002 at the age of 87. It's a shame that nobody seemed to know about the loss of this fine lyricist and that, apparently, nothing was published about her when she passed away.

Her husband Harry died only a few days ago, on June 4, 2011 at the age of 97. His obituary was published in the NY Times on June 10.

Jay

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Elmore
Date: 17 Jun 11 - 04:49 PM

Attn: BrooklynJay I got carpal tunnel syndrome trying to find info on Fran Minkoff, and found what you found. Strange.

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Elmore
Date: 18 Jun 11 - 09:00 AM

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: Elmore
Date: 18 Jun 11 - 09:50 AM

Sorry. Just wanted to say that ASCAP lists some songs she wrote.

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Sep 11 - 05:37 PM

Fran helped all of us write their introductory songs at Vacation Camp for the Blind in the late 60s and early 70s, and would reminisce about her associations with the Weavers and many other groups.

Dr. Sheldon Berger

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST,Dave W
Date: 11 Feb 12 - 06:40 PM

Fran and Fred Hellerman also co-wrote "Tomorrow Lies in the Cradle," which Fred sung at The Weavers 1970 Carnegie Hall reunion. A lovely song!

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST,mando-player-91
Date: 06 May 12 - 07:01 AM

He also wrote Country Boy and Man Come Into Egypt with her

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 11 Dec 15 - 10:16 PM

My daughter found an English translation of Oh Chanukah attributed to F Minkoff. I assume that's Fran. I posted the lyrics to this thread: http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=41967.

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 11 Dec 15 - 10:36 PM

Just to keep info about Fran Minkoff together on one thread, I note that on another thread (http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=96557) I posted English lyrics to Lo Yisa Goy from Rise Up Singing, attributed there to Leah M Jaffa and Fran Minkoff.

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 11 Dec 15 - 10:47 PM

According to http://mudcat.org/Detail.CFM?messages__Message_ID=31538 Fran Minkoff also wrote a singable English translation of Rozhinkes mit Mandlen (Raisins and Almonds, a much-loved Yiddish song). The details are at that URL.

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 04:16 PM

Here's a recording my daughter and my son-in-law have made of the Hellerman-Minkoff song, Man Come Into Egypt. https://soundcloud.com/cantor-sarah-myerson/man-come-into-egypt

Subject: LYR ADD: Man Come Into Egypt-Fran Minkoff
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 03 Feb 17 - 05:31 PM

thanks, Gerry,

Man Come Into Egypt
Lyrics by Fran Minkoff
Composed by Fred Hellerman

There is a man come into Egypt, and Moses is his name
When he saw the grief upon us, in his heart there burned a flame.
In his heart there burned a flame Oh Lord, In his heart there burned a flame,
When he saw the grief upon us, in his heart there burned a flame.

There is a man come into Egypt, his eyes are full of light
Like the sun come up in Egypt, come to drive away the night
Come to drive away the night Oh Lord, Come to drive away the night.
Like the sun come up in Egypt, come to drive away the night.

There is a man come into Egypt, he's come for you and me.
On his lips a word is singing, and the word is Liberty.
And the word is Liberty, Oh, Lord; And the word is Liberty.
On his lips a word is singing, and the word is Liberty.

There is a man come into Egypt to stir the souls of men
We will follow him to freedom, never wear those chains again
Never wear those chains again oh Lord, Never wear those chains again.
We will follow him to freedom, never wear those chains again!

Subject: RE: Info on Fran Minkoff? Thanks, RF.
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 15 Feb 19 - 12:47 AM

Found another Minkoff & Hellerman song: Cha Cha Ballahoo. So far as I can tell, the only ever recording was by Esther and Abi Ofarim in the late 1960s.