Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: Suffet
Date: 15 Jun 01 - 07:09 AM

Here's a message from an insider. :-)


From:
Stephen L. Suffet
For information call [phone]
E-mail: [e-mail]

PRESS RELEASE

For immediate release on or after June 15, 2001.

CB'S 313 GALLERY TO HOST WOODY GUTHRIE BIRTHDAY BASH.

ROUND ROBIN SONGFEST TO TAKE PLACE AT NEW YORK CITY CLUB ON SUNDAY, JULY 15, FROM 7 TO 9 PM.

Noted New York acoustic nightspot, CB's 313 Gallery, will play host to a two-hour songfest honoring the 89th birthday of American folk legend Woody Guthrie. This Birthday Bash will begin at 7:00 PM, Sunday, July 15, 2001. $5 cover allows patrons to stay all night and hear other acts as well. Drink purchase is expected.

Born in Okemah, Oklahoma, on July 14, 1912, Woody Guthrie lived in New York off and on from 1940 until his death from Huntington's disease in 1967. This Birthday Bash celebration will feature Guthrie's music performed in round-robin fashion by a variety of local artists. Among them are Jessica Feinbloom, Richard Fried, Joel Landy, Carlos Rosello, Erica Smith, and Steve Suffet. Expect to hear several guest artists as well.

CB's 313 Gallery is located at 313 Bowery in the NOHO/East Village section of Lower Manhattan. It is just next door to the famed CBGB's and is under the same ownership. For information about CB's 313 Gallery, please call [phone].

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Jun 01 - 04:01 PM

The message of our music is very subtile, I assure you... sometimes, I don't even get it! Larry

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 06 Jun 01 - 10:36 AM

Larry -- I can hardly type when NOT taking cold medicine!

Personally speaking-- I enjoy and encourage serious social comment. But that alone is not enough for me to want to listen to a particular group for one or two entire sets. The ability to say something, but to say/sing it well is important to me as a listener.

And, as a somewhat socially conscious, sensitive person, i would rather not be constantly hit over the head with an issue. There are ways to drive a point home without using a sledgehammer. Unfortunately, SOME of the socially conscious performers I have heard of late have no clue about music or musicianship -- just about the issues and they believe that is enough.

This is not to say anything negative about your group Larry as I have not yet had the pleasure of hearing you. (but hopefully will in the near future.)

Life, work (the kind that pays my mortgage), the work I do with Pinewoods, rehearsals with two groups, gigs and touring often hinder my ability to get to hear many wonderful folks. I do make it to Clearwater and Old Songs every year and a club or two now and then and try to get out to other festivals and events occasionally, but I do have to sleep sometime.

And keep a sense of humor about life and all that comes with it -- yes, I do try to do that. If my earlier message did not convey that, I can only say that although chat programs and email are useful tools, nothing beats getting to know a person face to face. (I do tend to look at the funnier side of things -- and keep smiling through the ups and downs.)

Yours in laughter!!

Joy

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Jun 01 - 09:51 AM

PS excuse the run on confusing sentences... I have a cold and can't type when taking cold medicine.. Larry

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: InOBU
Date: 06 Jun 01 - 08:23 AM

Hi Joy et al:
My comments have to do with the general difficulties for excellent bands to be FOSTERED by the folk scean. The fact that non-comercial bands are expected to be poor and marginalised until the mainstream embraces them enough to make them household names and then the folk world also books them and everyone else has five minutes at the free round robin, is just not respectful of folk musicians as workers who deserve a fair days pay for a fair years work. Now, I don't doupt any one or any organisations progressive credentials, all I am saying is that most bands I know of, who have serrious social content, aren't paying the bills.
In solidarity (and have a bit a humor about all this, if I can afford to laugh you guys can)
Larry
PS, in fact, laughing is all I can afford at the moment...

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: Suffet
Date: 06 Jun 01 - 07:07 AM

Greetings,

I believe Lori's "insider" comment had to do with the list of venues, not with New York Pinewoods Folk Music Club. Read it carefully again. It was Larry, not Lori, who brought up NYPFMC. But I still thank him for rising to my defense.

I agree with 100 percent of what Joy has to say.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: Suffet
Date: 06 Jun 01 - 07:04 AM

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 05 Jun 01 - 10:23 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 05 Jun 01 - 01:22 PM

Larry, Lori, Steve and all -- before you even brand an organization - get to know it and the people who are in it better for an organization is nothing without the people.

Pinewoods was started by a group of folks 35+ years ago who had been to Pinewoods camp in MA and wanted to have something like it here in NYC. The focus is on sharing good music. The membership is a diverse group (ok perhaps not as diverse as we would like, but change happens with time and effort) of all ages with all kinds of background but with one common thread -- making, listening to, prserving and presenting good folk music. I joined the group 10+ years ago and have been an active voice hopefully contributing towards making new people feel welcome and encouraging members and non-members alike to participate in events. (by the way, I think I am a "good guy" too - you may have your own views on that)

I have never in my life been an "insider" as you would call it. But now find myself being called one as current President of Pinewoods. I have spent most of my life on the "outside" looking in and finally realized that the only way to change things is to get in there and become a catalyst for change.

I am a member of another folk/social change organization as well and have been treated as very much an "outsider" by many of the "insiders" there to the point where I remain a member but don't attend many events as I don't feel particularly welcomed. (if you are interested in more on this, PM me - I don't feel the need to publicly bash organizations for which others feel deeply.)

Organizations made up of people who have worked hard to preserve whatever it is an organization is doing cannot help but have "insiders" and "outsiders" as by definition, an insider is one inside an entity. And there are times outsiders choose to be just that - for whatever reason -- valid or not.

Pinewoods is an organization that has undergone a tremendous amount of change over the past 10 years and anyone who would like to see more change within the organization should get involved and help make it happen. As a organization we are always looking for new members and hope that among them are people willing help build and even shape the club. Talking about change is cheap. Working towards it is what counts. However, some people forget that you cannot force change and change may not come overnight. It takes time, patience and diligence.

I would invite all out there to come to an event or two - not just a concert event, but a weekend - get to know the some of the people. We had a particularly spectacular weekend over Memorial Day - with lots of new friends - there for the first time -- I spoke with most of them and many found it hard to leave the place, the people. The "new" people participated in camper's concerts and were thrilled with the support that came from the other participants. And these people sang old songs, new songs, their own songs, read poetry, told stories -- sharing -- that's what it's all about. And yes, there were invited performers as well -- some few had heard of - and want more. Dancing - and just plain fun.

I certainly speak for myself and I believe I can speak for the club - that we both want and encourage you to join with us - get involved - be a part of the shaping of the club in years to come.

Idealistic? Perhaps, but that's how it all begins.

Joy

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: Suffet
Date: 05 Jun 01 - 06:43 AM

Larry,

Muchas gracias for rising to my defense. But the truth be told, I also agree with 99.9 percent of what Lori has to say. And I love that metaphor of Slim last being seen on TWA 800!

I was at the Peoples Music Netwok summer gathering this past weekend at High Falls, NY. I take it you weren't, or else I am certain we would have found each other. There were 62 acts in the Round Robin, and yet it ended well before midnight!

The winter gathering will take place in Ashville, NC, January 25 to 27, 2002. Start saving now, 'cause round trip airfare from LaGuardia or Newark runs about $200. TWA does not fly there.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: InOBU
Date: 01 Jun 01 - 10:07 AM

Hi Lori:
I agree with alot of what you say 99.9% in fact. However, one has to remember that organizations like Pinewoods are complex social structures made up of insiders and a few outsiders struggling to keep the door open. Without knowing who is who, I would not be quick to brand anyone an insider - a term as abhorant to me as "the boss...". I have actually spoken to Steve on the phone, and might know him personally, we have a thousand common friends, but aren't sure who is who, we've been at the same place at the same time a few... actually alot of times. Point is, I am quicker to brand organizations as somewhat static before I will paint individuals with that brush.
Hey, check out today's WBAI in exile on line, I will find the HTML for ya, I sang on the Bernard White show today...
Now the old WBAI - there was a real outsider institution, wasn't it?
Keep yer hands on the plow
Larry

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: GUEST,Lori
Date: 31 May 01 - 09:34 PM

Suffet seems like a good guy, but he's an insider. The places he lists are all the "same old same old" that cater to the insider. If Bob Dylan showed up incognito tomorrow playing "Man of Constant Sorrow" and "Jesus Gonna Make My Dyin' Bed" the way he did in 1961, what do you think would be his chances of landing a gig? Slim and none. And Slim was last seen leaving for Paris on TWA Flight 800!

My advice would be to find venues as far removed from the established folk scene as possible. Try getting booked to play pubs for sure, but also try public libraries, community centers, schools from pre-K through university level, shopping malls, street fairs, even housing projects. New York has projects called Mitchell Llama Houses, and they were started by union activists in the forties and fifties. Many of them have cultural programs in the evening, and they often hire folk musicians.

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: Suffet
Date: 22 May 01 - 04:33 PM

How did I ever leave this one out?

CB's 313 Gallery
313 Bowery
Manhattan (NOHO/East Village), New York City
Right next door to CBGB's.

I'll be playing there Sunday, 7/15/01, from 7 to 9 PM as one of the featured performers in the Woody Guthrie Birthday Bash. And so will Erica MacKenzie Smith, who got on my case in an earlier message. And so will Joel Landy, Jessica Feinbloom, Carlos Rosello, and Richard Fried. And so will half a dozen or more special guests who shall go unnamed. And all it will cost you is $5 to get in. OK, you will have to buy drinks, but CB's 313 Gallery is a real nightclub rather than a church basement coffeehouse.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: Suffet
Date: 14 May 01 - 06:05 PM

Erica,

Three important points:

1. I love ya. You're one of my favorite performers. And you are certainly someone who does not kow-tow to the self-appointed folk police. You know whom I mean.

2. I didn't "dog" Jerry Garcia. I love him, too. And I love the Dead. But when Jerry was playing dynamite guitar and banjo with various old-timey and bluegrass groups he made bupkas. Ditto for a zillion other one time folkies whom I didn't mention, such as John Phillips, Peter Tork, and Jimi Hendrix (pre-England, pre-"Are You Experienced?" days as a straightforward bluesman).

3. I really look forward to our Woody Guthrie Birthday Bash on 7/15/01. Meanwhile, have a great time in the UK. And visit Cecil Sharp House and Sharps Folk Club.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: InOBU
Date: 14 May 01 - 01:58 PM

Ah! Well, djh, drop me an email at [e-mail] and lets talk about your interest in the co-op, have you got an informal tape of your work?... Larry

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: GUEST,djh
Date: 14 May 01 - 01:53 PM

yes I am Larry , I just neglected to put my handle in last time I posted.

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: InOBU
Date: 14 May 01 - 01:32 PM

Funny you should mention the outfits, last Sunday we played at a restoration village, so for a lark kitted out in 18th century gear.
Union first... I am a temaster and a wob, until now there was not much point in an Irish musician joining the musician's union in NY. However, as the rest of my band has, I am joining as soon as I get the bread, in a few weeks. What I would like to see is NY folk musicians putting their jobs where their musical culture is and getting behind the union and getting some change in - for example - the caberet laws which are the usual excuse for loud juke boxes instead of live bands. The reality is you don't pay a juke box. Lets get the irish pubs to give back to the culture they live off of, who they just pour booze into as our musicians go hungry.
As to the recording co-op, I have a studio here in NY, with 2 audio technica condenser mics - an electovoice RE20 mic, a tascam dr78 8 trac recorder, a tascam da 40 DAT recorder, a lexicon effects generator, a macki power board... in short what it takes to make excellent CDs.
Where it is a co-op is that instead of upfront hourly rates, for artists we are interested in, we take a small percent of the profits and provide graphics, engineering, some legal, and eventualy marketing of the work, so artists can take back possesion of our industry. You in NY or close to NY guest?
Larry

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: GUEST
Date: 14 May 01 - 10:52 AM

Not to Mention the time spent working out the choreography and shopping for matching outfits. Hehehe.
Tell me more about your co-op recording, InOBU and your union plans too.

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: InOBU
Date: 14 May 01 - 10:36 AM

PPS
Not to mention I like to see a $8,000 hammer (the cost of a set of Uilleann pipes...)

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: InOBU
Date: 14 May 01 - 10:35 AM

PS
No offence to my brother Union Carpenters, but I spent a lot longer learning my trade as a Uilleann Piper and singer than they do swinging a hammer, again, we are workers too. Larry

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: InOBU
Date: 14 May 01 - 10:34 AM

Djh - to paraphrase Joe Hill, don't get depressed (mourn) ORGANISE! Towards that, I have organised a co-op recording studio, and we are in production for the first three CDs, with a number in the planing. However, I do think - in the same way I am attempting to organise for artists to take back control over producing music for sale, we should organise to make it possible for musicians to make a living at our trade. Check the posted reactions to my band's performences... if you cant find them, I would be happy to post them here.
The fact is ... to give a picture of average numbers, last week we - a five piece band played for $400, my band mates expect a min. of 100 to play, so it cost me, with travel expences $140 or so... to play at the People's Voice Cafe cost me abotu $400 in band saleries and another few hundred in advertising. Remember how we once formed Unions to deal with this kind of exploitation? Musicians are workers also and WE DESERVE A LIVING WAGE!!!!!
So lets get with it NY folkies, and stop taking this crap.
Larry

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: GUEST,djh
Date: 14 May 01 - 10:27 AM

Suffet thanks for posting all that info again. Thank you too Erica. InOBU your depressing me, hang in there. - Djh

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: Erica Smith
Date: 14 May 01 - 10:13 AM

Steve, I'm outraged that you dogged Jerry Garcia! Get ye a copy of "The Pizza Tapes" -- then we'll talk.

I usually play at the places that don't charge a cover, but pass the hat. You almost always end up making more money, since there is a walk-in crowd. I recommend 9C -- incredibly attentive and generous audience. The contact there is Roger, it's at 9th Street and Ave. C. (I haven't played there yet, but I've seen shows there & musician friends rave about it)

If 9C doesn't float your boat you can try a competing club, the C-note. (Ave C at 10th St). Great sound system, friendly. I don't have the phone info here -- sorry -- but they're listed.

N.B. : both of the above clubs are bars, people smoke there, but it's not overwhelming, esp compared to other NYC venues.

Erica

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: Suffet
Date: 14 May 01 - 08:11 AM

After my most recent gig at Sun Music, I actually walked out of the place $20 in the black for the evening. But that's only because I arrived at exactly 7 PM when all the free parking spaces on 1st Avenue suddely become availabe (No Standing 4 to 7 PM). But that was before I took my wife, my brother, and my brother's ladyfriend out for a drink. After paying midtown New York prices, I was only down $10 for the night. That's almost a profit!

I guess we can all sympathize with Larry.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: InOBU
Date: 14 May 01 - 07:49 AM

left out a word... had a laugh about this post...

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: InOBU
Date: 14 May 01 - 07:44 AM

Hi Rich and famous? How bout make a living, My band and I had a good laugh about this on the way to our gig in Monroe New york yesterday, where I only lost $140 bucks after paying the rest of the band to play... $90,000 in the red... and trying to make a living, as is a workers right, in the art handed down to me by centuries of my people... laughing all the way to the workhouse. Larry
I am only slightly pissed at this, and urge fellow folk musicians here to organise against the discriminitory aspects of the NYC caberet laws and make this a city of and for artists again as it was before our hair went grey.

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: Suffet
Date: 14 May 01 - 06:29 AM

Here are two more places, both in northern New Jersey rather than New York, but not too far to travel.

Minstrel Coffee House
Morris County Park Cultural Center
300 Mendham Road (Route 24)
Morristown
Phone: [phone]
Website: http://www.folkproject.org

Hurdy Gurdy Coffeee House
Central Unitarian Church
156 Forest Avenue
Paramus
Phone: [phone]
Website: http://www.hurdygurdyfolk.org


I presume you are not trying to become rich and famous through the glitz and tinsel world of folk music. Because if you are, you probably should disregard this entire thread and instead contact the Dixie Chics for their advice. Or maybe Steve Martin. Or Linda Ronstadt. Or hire a medium and ask Jerry Garcia.

--- Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: Suffet
Date: 13 May 01 - 04:37 PM

Here are a few venues, all with phone numbers.

Good Coffee House
Ethical Culture Society
53 Prospect Park West
Brooklyn
718-768-2972

OldStone Coffee House
336 3rd Street (Byrne Park)
Brooklyn
917-541-7076

Sun Music Company
340 East 71st Street
Manhattan
212-396-9521

The Postcrypt
Saint Paul's Chapel
Columbia University campus
West 116th Street & Broadway
Manhattan
212-854-1953

22 Below Cabaret
Gustavus Adolphus Lutheran Church
155 East 22nd Street
Manhattan
212-228-0750

Uptown Coffee House
Ethical Culture Society
4450 Fieldston Road
Bronx
718-885-2498

Richmondtown Restoration Tavern
441 Clarke Avenue
Staten Island
718-351-1611


This is a very abbreviated list. I suggest that you call Folk-Fone, 212-563-4099, where you can hear a recorded listing of what's going on in and around New York City. That's also the phone number for the New York Pinewoods Folk Music Club, and if you leave your name and mailing address, we will send you a sample copy of our newsletter with even more listings.

You can also hear some really high quality music at NYPFMC's Traditional Music Open Mike, now held the 3rd Wednesday of each month at the Triad Lounge, 158 West 72nd Street near Broadway in Manhattan. The session begins at 7:00 PM SHARP and rund until 9:45. Admission is just $5 + a minimum of 2 drinks. Sign-up begins around 6:45, and it is really a good idea to get there on time. If you arrive after the first 15 performers have signed up, you may only get to do one song rather than two, and there is a chance you will be frozen out completely.


--- Steve

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: InOBU
Date: 12 May 01 - 07:09 PM

Dear DJH...
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!! In short... if you find any, tell us...
The folk scene in NYC is starving us...Larry and the band...

Subject: RE: Help: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: gus C
Date: 12 May 01 - 03:55 PM

If folks who run Mudcat are reading please delete this thread. I put it up yesterday and it seemed to dissappear without a trace now I see it has returned.

Subject: Seeking good acoustic venues in NYC
From: gus C
Date: 12 May 01 - 03:53 PM

I am looking for venues for my acoustic trio. Can anyone in NYC or surounding areas, Northern Jersey, Westchester ect.... point me to some good places that book local talent. I am having a hard time finding places where we belong. Maybe I need to get out more, but, it doesn't seem to me that many places cater to acoustic blues and folk beyond open mike nights. Any help appreciated. - DJH