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Lyr Req: songs by Jake Thackray

DigiTrad:
BROTHER GORILLA
ISABEL MAKES LOVE
LA-DI-DAH
SISTER JOSEPHINE
THE BANTAM COCK
THE LAST WILL AND TESTAMENT OF JAKE THACKRAY


Related threads:
Jake Thackray saves beer thief? (11)
Jake Thackray before he became famous (4)
Great Lives: Jake Thackray (1938-2002) (4)
Jake Thackray and Songs DVD out now! (11)
LOST Will and Testament of Jake Thackray-London (7)
New album of lost Jake Thackray songs (3)
(origins) Origins: Black Swan by Jake Thackray (13)
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fake thackray (24)
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Lyr Req: Last Will and Testament of Jake Thackray (3)
ADD: Castleford Ladies' Magic Circle (Thackray) (6)
Jake Thackery (Thackray) on BBC4 - Oct 6 2006 (64)
Jake Thackray Nov 3rd 08 11:20 BBC2 (20)
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Tune Req: Sister Josephine (by Jake Thackray) (9)
Jake Thackray in the Times/Jakefest (2)
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Georgiansilver 27 Apr 21 - 05:48 AM
Joe Offer 26 Apr 21 - 06:35 PM
Gurney 01 Feb 21 - 09:26 PM
Joe Offer 01 Feb 21 - 06:39 PM
GUEST,Ray 10 Aug 18 - 09:21 AM
FreddyHeadey 09 Aug 18 - 02:33 PM
Nigel Parsons 17 Feb 10 - 11:15 AM
Jim Dixon 24 Apr 09 - 03:41 PM
Darowyn 23 Apr 09 - 02:16 PM
GUEST,PM1970 23 Apr 09 - 10:22 AM
Ian Burdon 09 Oct 06 - 02:48 PM
GUEST 09 Oct 06 - 08:35 AM
GUEST 30 Jun 06 - 07:10 PM
GUEST,Ian Burdon 11 May 06 - 03:53 PM
GUEST,harryrages 23 Apr 06 - 02:54 PM
GUEST 23 Apr 06 - 02:00 PM
The Badger 23 Apr 06 - 10:45 AM
GUEST,Dr Price 23 Apr 06 - 08:26 AM
GUEST,Ian Pittaway 22 Apr 06 - 05:17 PM
GUEST,lesley.marciniak@gmail.com 22 Apr 06 - 06:41 AM
GUEST,David@g8ina.enta.net 05 Jul 02 - 12:43 PM
John in Brisbane 04 Feb 02 - 09:09 PM
GUEST,merrick 04 Feb 02 - 04:22 PM
John MacKenzie 04 Feb 02 - 04:22 PM
GUEST,merrick 04 Feb 02 - 04:19 PM
John MacKenzie 04 Feb 02 - 04:18 PM
GUEST,merrick 04 Feb 02 - 04:18 PM
MMario 04 Feb 02 - 04:12 PM
nager 04 Feb 02 - 04:02 PM
GUEST,ta2 04 Feb 02 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,merrick 04 Feb 02 - 03:44 PM
roopoo 26 Mar 01 - 01:36 AM
Mr Red 25 Mar 01 - 06:17 PM
Liz the Squeak 24 Mar 01 - 08:00 PM
Mr Red 24 Mar 01 - 04:50 PM
Morticia 23 Mar 01 - 06:59 PM
Greyeyes 23 Mar 01 - 06:16 PM
Liz the Squeak 23 Mar 01 - 05:53 PM
SINSULL 22 Mar 01 - 08:10 PM
Lanfranc 22 Mar 01 - 07:52 PM
Lanfranc 06 Jul 00 - 07:28 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Jul 00 - 11:20 AM
GUEST,Brian 06 Jul 00 - 10:50 AM
Snuffy 06 Jul 00 - 08:54 AM
GUEST,Alan Francis at the Office 06 Jul 00 - 08:40 AM
AndyG 06 Jul 00 - 04:38 AM
McGrath of Harlow 05 Jul 00 - 07:00 PM
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bobby's girl 05 Jul 00 - 06:15 PM
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs by Jake Thackray
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 27 Apr 21 - 05:48 AM

Jake Thackray on Youtube.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs by Jake Thackray
From: Joe Offer
Date: 26 Apr 21 - 06:35 PM

Nice collection of Jack Thackray songs here:


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs by Jake Thackray
From: Gurney
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 09:26 PM

I find it easiest to copy lyrics from Youtube.
You can stop the song instantly, go back in tiny increments to get the missed word.
Much easier than LPs or CDs, which are frustrating to copy from.

Several Thackray songs there, including some the original poster asked for on 1997.


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Subject: ADD: The Lodger (Jake Thackray)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 Feb 21 - 06:39 PM

Sung with panache today at the singaround by Melbert.

The Lodger
Words & Music: Jake Thackray

My landlady had three lovely daughters.
They used to come and make my bed each day.
They used to come and clean my living quarters,
But their mother made quite sure they didn't stay.
There was Mary: she seemed chary;
There was Helen: she seemed well and truly sceptical about my qualities;
There was Julie: she was truly well-proportioned, but her caution
Brought exhaustion on my aching arteries.

But I was wrong: they weren't at all impervious
To the possibilities of high romance -
And I sensed a certain girlish nerviness
In the way they folded my pyjama pants.
And I was right, for late one night
Sweet little Mary, like a fairy,
As I lay sleeping, came a-creeping to my side.
She was mine: it was divine - but we were doomed, for very soon
Into the room came sister Helen, and she cried:

"Mary, go to bed!" Off Mary went.
"Now, young man," Helen said, "for your punishment,
"We mustn't have a fight, we mustn't make a row:
"Turn off the light - it's my turn now!"

Well, after all, I'm young and relatively vigorous,
And though I still protest my innocence,
By temperament I'm strictly un-polygamous,
And if I sinned, I sinned in self-defence.
Nevertheless I must confess I wouldn't miss that sort of bliss
And when it ended I was rendered comatose.
When, loud and clear, very near, in my ear a loud voice spoke
And I was awoken from my post-coital doze.

"Helen, go to bed!" Helen went away.
"Now, young man," Julie said, "you will have to pay!
"You've blighted Helen's charms, filched her purity.
"Open up your arms - come and filch me!"

I was amazed, and really rather tired;
I thought I'd given all that I could give.
A little kip was all that I desired,
But I'm British, so my upper lip was stiff.
She was chaotic, idiotic, quite exotic and ecstatic,
Acrobatic and emphatically fine.
All to no good, for when I could open my eyes, to my surprise
I found her mother looking into mine.

"Julie, go to bed!" Julie left the scene.
"Now listen, Ma," I said, "I know the old routine.
"I'll do what you like, but I shall be vexed
"And I'll bloody well go on strike if Grandma's next!"

https://www.jakethackray.com/archive/songs/the-lyrics-and-guitar-tabs/item/the-lodger.html


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs by Jake Thackray
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 10 Aug 18 - 09:21 AM

That would be John Watterson the spam merchant then, would it?


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Subject: BBC 2014 Great Lives - Jake Thackray
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 09 Aug 18 - 02:33 PM

BBC Great Lives
Isy Suttie & John Watterson(Fake Thackray) talking about Jake Thackray to Matthew Parris

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b042jhlm 
2014

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
bbc iPlayer Radio app
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/3yvdp3zQJWLtl204z9nxgRt/download-the-iplayer-radio-app 
(then click the '+' on the programme's web page
    then on the app click 
            Menu > My Radio > Listen Later)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs by Jake Thackray
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 17 Feb 10 - 11:15 AM

refresh


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs by Jake Thackray
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Apr 09 - 03:41 PM

We have parody versions of ENGLISH COUNTRY GARDEN in old threads here, here, and here; we also have a parody of GREENSLEEVES called GREENSTAMPS in the DT here.

I'm pretty sure Jake Thackray didn't write either of them, but he may have sung them.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs by Jake Thackray
From: Darowyn
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 02:16 PM


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: songs by Jake Thackray
From: GUEST,PM1970
Date: 23 Apr 09 - 10:22 AM

Does anybody know the words to his versions of England Country Garden and one called Green Stamps, which is a parody of Greensleeves?


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Subject: RE: Looking for Jake Thackray songs
From: Ian Burdon
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 02:48 PM

You could also try here: http://www.jakethackray.com/content/section/3/26/

Ian


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Subject: RE: Looking for Jake Thackray songs
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Oct 06 - 08:35 AM

hi, anychance the person offering to scan the songbook email it to me at kurt_ne3@yahoo.com


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Subject: RE: Looking for Jake Thackray songs
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jun 06 - 07:10 PM

Sometime again, someone asked about Jake Thackray and a song about a concrete mixer. Jake didn't do this song. The Concrete mixer song was and is still performed by Bernard Wrigley.


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Subject: RE: Looking for Jake Thackray songs
From: GUEST,Ian Burdon
Date: 11 May 06 - 03:53 PM

In a fit of pedantry, may I add to Ian Pittaway's comments that, as well as the radio performances to which he refers, there remains a small number of songs which Jake performed on TV which have yet to return to the public light of day. There are also some decent quality live recordings floating about (including the "Live in Germany" cd now available via www.jakethackray.com which - declaring an interest - I produced). We aim to getmore of this into the public domain in due course.

As well as the Scarborough Jakefest (which follows the Woolwich, Torrington and Edinburgh Jakefests), several of us perform evenings of Jake's songs around the country, most recently in Knutsford Cheshire in February and, last weekend, a well received set at the Holmfirth Festival of Folk as "The Jake Thackray Experience". We can be contacted via the website where I appear as 'aliasmacalias'.

Ian


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Subject: RE: Looking for Jake Thackray songs
From: GUEST,harryrages
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:54 PM

I have a Jake Thackray Vol 1 songbook I can scan and e-mail if you want. Has dots and chords.


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Subject: Lyr Add: WPC SADIE STICK (Mike Absolom)
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 02:00 PM

WPC SADIE STICK was Mike Absolom, not Jake...

They say she ate to satiate a need for love.
She was a breed above the average police-woman.
WPC Sadie Stick, big and fat and round and thick,
Fourteen stone with a hairy lip, my bruvver!
MacLagan hankered after her with hankering and grief,
And frequently when drunk he'd sing behind his handkerchief:
"WPC Sadie Stick! Hit me again with your big black stick!
I'll 'ave a word with you when I find my dic---tionary!")

The night of the Policeman's Ball, MacLagan met her in the hall.
He said: "'Ello! 'Ello, 'ello, 'ello!”
She turned and looked him in the face as friendly as a can of Mace
And said: "Piss off! Are you someone that I know?
Is it the gay Lothario? Is it Don Giovanni?
Don't drop your balls into my court, you nasty little mannie!"
(but all MacLagan said was)
"WPC Sadie Stick! Hit me again with your big black stick!
I'll 'ave a word with you when I find my dic---tionary!"

When a bust is damned a dam is bust. Giving Sadie up for lust,
MacLagan said: "It's hard to hold yer own!
Sadie, Sadie, I would like to stick my finger in the dyke.
I'll drown of love if you leave me here alone.”
Drunk on an empty head, he sought the porcine porcelain,
And as he groped his drunken way, they heard this sad refrain:
"WPC Sadie Stick! Hit me again with your big black stick!
I'll 'ave a word with you when I find my dic---tionary!"

Meanwhile back in Notting Hill, the moon showed up like a Mandrax pill
In the sky, so high, like everybody.
Bomber Dinah with delight stuffed her bra with gelignite.
She's a booby trap just for tonight, and Noddy!
Up in the sweaty ballroom, things were swinging.
As she cased the place, she heard MacLagan singing:
"WPC Sadie Stick! Hit me again with your big black stick!
I'll 'ave a word with you when I find my dic---tionary!"

Behind the wall, Dinah unseen laid bare her bulging magazine,
But suddenly MacLagan did appear.
He muttered: "Is this where the gents is?" Then a vision pierced his drunken senses,
Big and bold and beautiful and bare!
"It must be Sadie, half undressed! If she was French she'd be from Brest.
I always did like Bristols best! I love you!
WPC Sadie Stick! Hit me again with your big black stick!
I'll 'ave a word with you when I find my dic---tionary!"

Dinah was not like other girls. She had a twin-set but no pearls.
She shouted: "Kill the Pigs!" and then exploded.
MacLagan took off through the air, wrapped in a red hot brassiere.
He said: "I did not know the girl was loaded!"
A satellite was set alight high in the London sky!
As it tumbled over Notting Hill you could hear it cry:
WPC Sadie Stick! Hit me again with your big black stick!
I'll 'ave a word with you when I find my dic---tionary!"


It was on the LP Hector and Other Peccadillos.


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Subject: RE: Looking for Jake Thackray songs
From: The Badger
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 10:45 AM

If you go onto the "The Jake Thackray Website" you will find full details of all Jake's songs. They are also organising a Jakefest in Scarborough in August.
Tamar productions of Scarborough have also produced a stage musical, Sister Josephine Strikes Back, based around some of Jake's songs with book by Ian Macmillan. I saw it in Leeds and it was absolutely hilarious - Jake would have loved it - and the stage performance is available on DVD.

Dr. Price is dead right - Jake was proud of his Yorkshire roots . He came from Leeds, where he also taught at Intake School before going Pro.

WPC Sadie Stick was written by Mike Abaslom. The Saga of W.P.C. Sadie Stick, Maclagan and Bomber Dina. He recorded it on an album in the early seventies - Hector and other Peccadillos - for Phillips, but I don't know if a CD version has been made. There are a number of Mike Absalom web sites on Google.


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Subject: RE: Looking for Jake Thackray songs
From: GUEST,Dr Price
Date: 23 Apr 06 - 08:26 AM

There's a marvellous CD which has just appeared, Jake Thackray Live At The Lobster Pot, from Lobster Pot Records, Lakeview Studios, Cathedine, Bwlch, Brecon LD3 7DS. The Lobster Pot, at Instow, Devon, was a pub/restaurant which had folk and jazz, and owner John Oliver used to record hundreds of hours of Shirley Collins, Ewan McColl and Peggy Seeger - and Jake. Jake was Lobster Pot Records' debut CD, and this recording captures his exuberance and joy at performing with an audience - five stars!

Incidentally, Jake was a Yorkshireman and proud of it, but he loved Penallt and Monmouth and everything about Wales.


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Subject: RE: Looking for Jake Thackray songs
From: GUEST,Ian Pittaway
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 05:17 PM

W P C Sadie Stick? Is that a Jake song? Not aware of it. EMI have - at last! - released all their JT material in a box set, 'Jake in a Box' (with lots of unreleased extras), plus the whole concert from the live album, 'Live Performance'. So that's all Jake's output now on CD ... except the fab live Dingle album and the songs he only ever recorded for radio.


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Subject: RE: Looking for Jake Thackray songs
From: GUEST,lesley.marciniak@gmail.com
Date: 22 Apr 06 - 06:41 AM

Loved reading about Jake Thackray, but unable to find words for W P C Sadie Stick !!!!! Anyone know this one ??? I'm living in France and no one here knows of him. Difficult to translate, but I found Brother Gorrilla in French and printed it for My French class. Would appreciate words to Sadie if you have them.
Also know of a guy in Australia who used to sing most of his songs in folk clubs and pubs in England. Lost touch now but I guess he still sings them out there.
Thanks


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Subject: RE: Looking for Jake Thackray songs
From: GUEST,David@g8ina.enta.net
Date: 05 Jul 02 - 12:43 PM

Just in case you missed my earlier thread, we also have a Jake Thackray forum at HERE

Talk, ask, listen... all about Jake. ...and we have plans afoot !! David


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Subject: RE: jake thackery song lyrics
From: John in Brisbane
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 09:09 PM

Hi Nager, if you're in Australia I would happily notate some of the tunes from your bokk if you were able to send a copy. Jake is one of my all time favourites.

Regards

John

johninbrisbane@lycos.com


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Subject: RE: jake thackery song lyrics
From: GUEST,merrick
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 04:22 PM

thanks,nager and mmario,found tons of stuff.it's amazing what a difference having the correct spelling makes!!! DOH!


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Subject: RE: jake thackery song lyrics
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 04:22 PM

There are 4 or 5 on the make 'em laugh website, hopefully this will take you to it.

Fingers crossed......Giok


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Subject: RE: jake thackery song lyrics
From: GUEST,merrick
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 04:19 PM

thanks nager and mmario found tons of stuff.it's amazing what a difference having the right name makes!!!


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Subject: RE: jake thackery song lyrics
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 04:18 PM

There are 4 or 5 on the make 'em laugh website, hopefully this will take you to it. Fingers crossed......Giok


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Subject: RE: jake thackery song lyrics
From: GUEST,merrick
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 04:18 PM

thanks nager and mmario found tons of stuff.it's amazing what a difference having the right name makes!!!


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Subject: RE: jake thackery song lyrics
From: MMario
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 04:12 PM

the unofficial home page


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Subject: RE: jake thackery song lyrics
From: nager
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 04:02 PM

I have a whole book of them at home, published around the early 1970s I think. I found it in a second hand shop at the little town of Gulgong in New South Wales, Australia around 10 years ago.. complete with cartoons by Bill Tidy.. cost me $2 (Aus)... absolutely brilliant. Not much help to you, I guess, but there are a couple of Thackray sites I have come across on the net.. maybe the spelling you used stuffed you up. It is Jake Thackray.. good luck.


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Subject: RE: jake thackery song lyrics
From: GUEST,ta2
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 03:54 PM

between my bizzie lizzie and my portrait of the queen......... i'll think over the next couple of days and get back when i remember


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Subject: jake thackray song lyrics
From: GUEST,merrick
Date: 04 Feb 02 - 03:44 PM

does anyone know of a site containing lyrics/music of jake thackray? or any similar?


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Subject: RE: BS: Jake Thackray
From: roopoo
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 01:36 AM

I remember some 15 years ago he was supposed to be at Stainsby for the Saturday night concert, but broke his wrist and couldn't do it. Nevertheless, he turned up in the afternoon to apologise, and did a spot while he was at it! What a trouper!

Andrea

(Martin Carthy stepped into the breach for the concert!)


Messages below are from a new thread.


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Subject: RE: BS: Jake Thackray
From: Mr Red
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 06:17 PM

Yea it looked like that then, shaky hands!


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Subject: RE: BS: Jake Thackray
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 08:00 PM

It's mainly his liver that has gone underground. I suspect it won't be long before the rest of him joins it.

Lovely bloke though.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Jake Thackray
From: Mr Red
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 04:50 PM

7/10 years ago Jake was helping run the Monmouth Town festival. All free and in the town square. they even closed the high street off to have a ceilidh, now thats what I call "FOLK". He was doing the odd gig then but asking 700 Uk pounds & I didn't think I could pull in enough punters on the Malvern Fringe festival or I would have booked him there and then.


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Subject: RE: BS: Jake Thackray
From: Morticia
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 06:59 PM

I do a few of his songs, it is a great sadness to me that he appears to have gone undergound.....guess that is his choice but oh my, do I miss him.


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Subject: RE: BS: Jake Thackray
From: Greyeyes
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 06:16 PM

I once heard Jake described as "the Noel Coward of the North." High praise. I have a vague memory of singing "Lah Di Dah" on Paltalk once, long, long ago.


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Subject: RE: BS: Jake Thackray
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 05:53 PM

Lanfranc does the Gorilla song.... one of my favourites.

LTS


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Subject: RE: BS: Jake Thackray
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 08:10 PM

Thanks Lanfranc. Pseudolus introduced us to Sr. Josephine. Great stuff.


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Subject: Jake Thackray
From: Lanfranc
Date: 22 Mar 01 - 07:52 PM

No, not bad newa, just a link requested on PalTalk.

http://www.socresonline.org.uk/~scs1ec/jakethackray.html

Excellent site, loads of info and lyrics.

Glad Jake's songs are having a bit of a revival on PalTalk.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jake Thackeray
From: Lanfranc
Date: 06 Jul 00 - 07:28 PM

Wow - It's just like WordStar 1.0!

Who'd have though the blue clicky thingie had so many control characters embedded in it!

Thanks, neighbour, that's a beer I owe you.


Messages below are from a new thread.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jake Thackeray
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jul 00 - 11:20 AM

The Secret of the Blue Clicky Thing -

"Sherlock, my good fellow. You've been sitting in the corner in front of that funny looking box long enough. God knows what you are trying to do, but it's hiugh time you laid it on one side, and had one of Mrs Hudson's excellent Muffins."

Outside the fog, a London Particular, was muffling the sounds of the passing carriages..."

...Someday the full story will be told, when the world is ready for it."

But not just yet. Here is the short version for the above link:

{a href="http://www.soc.surrey.ac.uk/~scs1ec/jakethackray.html"}The (Unofficial) Jake Thackray Homepage{/a}

"http://www.soc.surrey.ac.uk/~scs1ec/jakethackray.html" is in thiscase the address of the website you'd be try9ng to link to. But in place of eveery { in the abve paragraph, you write < , and in place of every } you put >

And when you do that, this is what you get: The (Unofficial) Jake Thackray Homepage


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jake Thackeray
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 06 Jul 00 - 10:50 AM

Thankyouthankyouthankyou. I had thought for the longest time that Jake Thackray sang the song about the RVSWCD. Thanks for putting the record straight. As to the song about the concrete mixer, Our Bill is the one. I heard this sung at a small Folk festival up in New Hampshire about 15 years ago and couldn't get scraps of the song out of my head.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jake Thackeray
From: Snuffy
Date: 06 Jul 00 - 08:54 AM

Try OUR BILL in the Digitrad Lyrics Search box - that's about a concrete mixer driver, but it's not by Thackray


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jake Thackeray
From: GUEST,Alan Francis at the Office
Date: 06 Jul 00 - 08:40 AM

Thank you AndyG, one day I'll discover the secret of the blue clicky thingie!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jake Thackeray
From: AndyG
Date: 06 Jul 00 - 04:38 AM

The (Unofficial) Jake Thackray Homepage

AndyG


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jake Thackeray
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 07:00 PM

Well, that's sorted - now tell us more about the concrete mixer, and see if that sparks any memories.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jake Thackray
From: Lanfranc
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 06:44 PM

It would be easier to find Jake's material if people could spell his surname! It's spelt THACKRAY. A Google search with those terms will come up with something but ....

Red Velvet Steering Wheel Cover Driver is by Jeremy Taylor as above and I can't think of a song about a cement mixer by either Taylor or Thackray!

Try Google again, or do a one-year hunt through the Mudcat.

Happy hunting - join Mudcat and have all your misconceptions about the authorship of songs corrected!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jake Thackeray
From: bobby's girl
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 06:15 PM

I agree that RVSWCD is definately a Jeremy Taylor song - I have a wonderful lunatic LP of him and Spike Milligan performing live together - totally bizarre!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Jake Thackray
From: Morticia
Date: 05 Jul 00 - 04:13 PM

I don't know either of these as Jake Thackrays and I thought I knew all his stuff


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