BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: GUEST,lee
Date: 18 May 01 - 02:11 PM

To answer whether he is trying to prove that he is better than God:

When he's imagining speaking with Mrs. L. after the door blows open she tells him that God doesn't make cars crash and that he should know that. I got the impression that he got the moral message by the way he looked to the church when the car passed it on the way to the press conference. I think he wants to run again to prove himself worthy of the support Mrs. L. always gave him, not the least of which was knowing and saying that his father was a jealous prick...

MHO

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 May 01 - 01:50 PM

Even my cynical parents who are in their 80's and 90's are glued to this show. One wonders how many voters realized that FDR was wheelchair bound? Nice to see "god" upstaged by a ghost.

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: InOBU
Date: 18 May 01 - 12:31 PM

I know the Ainsley you speak of is is a woman, I was making a less the yuck yuck, about Ainsley Herriot the English cooking show... fellow... Ah well, Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: Kim C
Date: 18 May 01 - 11:08 AM

Ainsley's a woman. :-) I just thought it strange that since she's part of the White House counsel, that she wasn't in on all the stuff with Oliver Babish.

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: LR Mole
Date: 18 May 01 - 10:44 AM

Well...given the lyrics, one possible subtext is that we all have only a certain time to be brothers in arms, and that we make it, or we don't (Mr. L.:"..then I don't even want to know you...") but we have to try.Mmm?

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: InOBU
Date: 18 May 01 - 10:16 AM

I think Ainsley got himself a cooking show, it was on the the US for a while but is still on in England... Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: Kim C
Date: 18 May 01 - 09:58 AM

There's a lot of people who don't have degenerative nerve diseases who claim to talk to people who aren't there. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: John P
Date: 18 May 01 - 07:35 AM

While I thought the song playing at the end was a very good song, I found it distracting and intrusive. I think I would have preferred silence. The scene with Mrs. L. was very good, but I later started wondering about the idea of a president with a degenerative nerve disease sitting in the Oval Office seeing and talking to someone who wasn't there. I wish I could understand Latin. Does anyone have a translation?

John Peekstok

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: Peg
Date: 17 May 01 - 08:38 PM

I think Ainsley is probably still around; very interesting character actually...I am betting her and Sam get it on...

Last night's episode was amazing. I started crying when the storm blew open the Oval Offce door and basically did not stop...

We are given to know that the main reason this great man became leader of the free world is because of this extraordinary woman...killed in the autumn of her life by a drunk driver...

What is quite interesting about this show is that when personal tragedy befalls any of the characters there is not always the predictable call to arms in terms of public publicy (re: gun control, softer penalties for drug addicts, etc.); one now wonders if drunk driving will become an issue...

Peg

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: Kim C
Date: 17 May 01 - 04:41 PM

Does anyone know what happened to Ainsley?

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 17 May 01 - 03:43 PM

For an interesting approach to this fascinating question, you might be interested in the book, "When Bad Things Happen to Good People," by Harold Kushner. It's been a real comfort to me, and it sounds like the show's writer(s) took a page from it as well...my take is that UB Dan has it exactly right.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 May 01 - 03:12 PM

I like your take better. Right or wrong, I like your take better. --JH

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 17 May 01 - 02:55 PM

John, I guess you make a good point...my take on it was that after blaming God for specifically manipulating events and the weather to conspire against him, he talks with Ms. L. She tells him point blank, stop using me [i.e. circumstances and weather] as an excuse. What I got out of it was a rebuttal to his "God is out to get me" fatalist mentality... and a reminder that a lot of people are a lot worse off....bad things happen to good people...and that doesn't mean God has turned his back

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 May 01 - 01:36 PM

Hey Dan! 'splain please. Traditionally this type of melodrama ends in the protagonist finding that, indeed, God is as heart-broken over the fallen condition of man and his consequent hardships and heartaches. I didn't see this turn a corner. The apparition of Mrs L confirms the president's rightness, and he subsequently goes defiantly into the storm (shown as a certain act of God) and symbolically shows he not only no longer needs God, or will serve him, but will instead run to spite Him.

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: Kim C
Date: 17 May 01 - 11:35 AM

I think it's the best-written show on television. 'Course my other favorite show is King of the Hill, so I don't know what that says about me........

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 17 May 01 - 11:35 AM

John, actually I think the "heartache and the loss of God" thing was tied up pretty well by the admonishment from Ms. Lanaghan

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: InOBU
Date: 17 May 01 - 11:06 AM

Yup... saw it in England last month, was a few weeks behind, SO maybe someone should start a thread warning English folks not to read this and find out about Ms. Lanaghan etc.! Larry By the way, with all the crap we are sending to England, such as ... what is the name of the fellow who gets sub working class Americans to fight on his stage over their sexual pecadillos?... West Wing is really apreciated.

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: Kim C
Date: 17 May 01 - 10:51 AM

We haven't actually told the ending. Anyways I didn't even know this show was on in England. :-)

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: John Hardly
Date: 17 May 01 - 10:47 AM

So does he curse God (arrogantly telling Him his (the president's) accomplishments and why God should be thankful to have such a human as he), And, in running again, prove that he indeed is greater than the "God who killed Mrs L." and doesn't need His help to be a great president (after all, he established, he did all those accomplishments sans God's help).

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: wysiwyg
Date: 17 May 01 - 10:44 AM

I thought it was something by the Doors.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: InOBU
Date: 17 May 01 - 10:27 AM

For you all who watch this in England are a bit behind... (US watchers don't tell em about this episode it is too good to spoil!) you all are in for one of the best things done on US TV. Last weeks and this weeks, well, you are in for a good evening of TV, try and watch it, (this from a committed ludite!) As for my fellow US watchers, AGAIN! don't spoil it for our mudcater sister and brothers over seas! Stop telling them the endings!
Larry

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: Kim C
Date: 17 May 01 - 10:05 AM

I thought Mrs. Landingham's ghost telling the President "your father was a prick who was just jealous because he wasn't as smart as his brothers" was pretty darn good. I think that's probably why he smacked his kid, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: LR Mole
Date: 17 May 01 - 09:59 AM

So does Mrs. Lanningham (sp?): hands in pockets, look to the side, smile. Is it just me, or was his father backhanding him the centerpiece of the show? It rocked me, I'll tell you.

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: Kim C
Date: 17 May 01 - 09:46 AM

That's a great tune - I love Dire Straits. Also thought this was one of the very best episodes of anything I have ever seen on television.

I think he's going to run again.

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 17 May 01 - 08:46 AM

One interpretation

Dire Straits
Brothers in Arms (From the Brothers in Arms album...best known for "Money for nothing") [Am]These mist covered [F]moun[G]tains
Are a home now for [C]me [Gm]
But my home is the [Am]low[Em]lands
And always will [F]be [G]
Some day you'll re[Am]turn [Em]to
Your valleys and your [F]farms [G]
And you'll no longer [Am]burn
To be [Dm]brothers in arms [G] [Am] [F] [G]

[Am]Through these fields of d[F]estruct[G]ion
Baptisms of [C]fire [Gm]
I've watched all your [Am]suffe[Em]ring
As the battles raged high[F]er [G]
And though they did hurt [Am]me so [Em]bad
In the fear and al[F]arm [G]
You did not de[Am]sert me
To be [Dm]brothers in arms [G] [Am] [F] [G]

[Am]There's so [G]many different [Am]worlds [G]
So many different [F]suns [G]
[(Am)]And we have [(G)] just one [Am]world [G]
But we live in different [F]ones [G] [F(open)]

[Am]Now the sun's gone to [F]hell [G]
And the moon's riding [C]high [Gm]
Let me bid you [Am]farw[Em]ell
Every man has to [F]die [G]
But it's written in the [Am]star[Em]light
And every line on your [F]palm [G]
We're fools to make [Am]war
On our [Dm]brothers in arms [G]

Subject: RE: BS: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: Chip2447
Date: 17 May 01 - 02:06 AM

Susan, I think that you are talking about "Brothers in arms" by Dire Straits

Subject: Song at the end of 'The West Wing'
From: Susan from California
Date: 17 May 01 - 12:58 AM

On tonight's episode of "The West Wing" there was a very cool song playing as Prez Bartlett was preparing to make his announcement. Does anyone know what it was?