Herringbone

Subject: Herringbone
From: Deskjet
Date: 18 May 01 - 06:39 PM

I'm looking for information about herringbone as used in guitar binding.What's it made of? and what's it's history ? And how does it compare to straightforward wood?

Subject: RE: Herringbone
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 May 01 - 06:47 PM

I am not sure, but I think it is little tiny pieces of different colored woods (and possibly Mother of Pearl or abalone) that are re glued together to get the herringbone patterns. Look up "marquetry" or "parquet". The stuff is so thin when finished that it is flexible.....don't know who/where it is made.

Subject: RE: Herringbone
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 May 01 - 06:59 PM

The classic Martin Herringbone pattern as used in their purfling is generally made of holly and either ebonized maple or East Indian Rosewood, though a host of others may be used. It must have "bendability" and these woods, though quite hard, work very well together. Most of the newer ones are "assembled" (the strips) with newer glues that allow bending in boiling water as opposed to the traditional bending iron or steam methods. Herringbone is generally used only as purfling or backstrips and the strips are formally called "intarsia." when you inlay the strip, it's known as marquetry.

Various forms of purling are available in patterns and in solid woods and plastics although on fancier stuff, abalone and pearl are still widely used for this decorative touch. You can make a minor case that the purfling groove provides a finished end to the top and thus in combination with bindings can reduce the chance for cracking............but let's face it.....it's really decoration!

The Herringbone pattern is mostly associated with the Martin D-28, although I have no idea when Martin first used the style. Purfling existed for mucho many years prior to that obviously.

Taht's about the limit of my brain on the subject. Hope it helps!

Spaw

Subject: RE: Herringbone
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 May 01 - 07:04 PM

Most of it is made in the Orient now Sorcha although some still comes from Germany. Any other places are "small potatoes" to Japan and Germany.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Herringbone
From: Lanfranc
Date: 18 May 01 - 07:06 PM

The use of herringbone in guitar construction goes back to the early 17th century, when a shortage of ivory caused the luthiers of the time to resort to other materials for inlays.

As herrings provide very fine bones, it was found possible to create intricate patterns by dyeing the bones in different colours and creating extensive lateral decorative mosaics which were so thin that they did not adversely effect the tone of the instrument.

The luthiers also got to eat the fish, which was a good source of protein and low in cholesterol.

This practice died our when ivory was once again readily available, but survived in Germany until the 1830s, when the last luthier to use this method of decoration, a Herr Stauffer, retired.

One of his apprentices, a Herr C.F.Martin, emigrated to the USA to carry on his old master's tradition, but found that herring did not form part of the diet in Pennsylvania where he settled. Being a resourceful sort of chap, old CF decided to create a faux-herringbone effect using little pieces of wood scrap which he bound and glued together in chevron pattern strips which he then sliced thinly and used as decoration in the binding and purfling of his instruments. It was not as delicate as the fishy original, but his new American customers didn't know any better, and were charmed by the detail and obvious craftsmanship involved.

The herringbone tradition continues to this day, and any time a luthier wants to impart a sense of age and quality to his products, he obtains a strip of "herringbone" and applies it to the edge of the guitar's front or table.

Or that's what my old granny used to say!

Subject: RE: Herringbone
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 May 01 - 07:37 PM

Lanfrac, THANKS!! Truly FASCINATING info!! Wow, this place is worth $20 bucks a month........

Subject: RE: Herringbone
From: Justa Picker
Date: 18 May 01 - 07:46 PM

Some Martin herringbone trivia.

Herringbone - excerpt by Mike Longworth, taken from "Martin Guitars - A History" (1975)

"Herringbone, the most mentioned word in connection with older Martin guitars. Perhaps it is even more heard than D-45 as it echoes its way through the heart of any self-respecting Bluegrass Festival. Herringbone is the name given to a particular type of wood trim around the edges of the tops on style 28 Martin guitars from way before the turn of the century until the 1940's. Over the years it varied a bit in size, but the pattern remained basically the same. Some style 21 guitars used it around the soundhole and up the center of the back.

First we should dispell a misunderstanding surrounding the use of herringbone material. Many enthusiasts are under the impression that Martin made two series of style 28 guitars at the same time, these being classified as herringbone and non-herringbone. Not true! These strips of wood marquetry were a standard feature around the edge of all style 28 guitars, regardless of size, until it was discontinued in 1946.

Originally all the marquetry used in Martin guitars came from Europe. The Germans were very skillful in designing and making marquetry and inlays of colored woods. They also did excellent pearl work. Changes in Martin designs as related to inlays and trimmings are largely the result of changes in sources.

Marquetry has been made in this country for a good many years, but it was a small industry and suffered from manpower shortages at times. Finally Martin found the quality unsuitable and decided to drop the feature.

By that time, plastics had improved to the point that Martin was using them more and more, and it felt that the black and white purfling lines would be acceptable as a substitute. The only record of the change is a note in the foreman's record stating that all style 28 guitars beginning with #98233, a D-28, would be bound like a C-2 carved-top guitar with black and white purfling. The change was not formally recorded because it was considered a minor alteration at the time."

Mike Longworth - Martin Historan (published 1975)

Subject: RE: Herringbone
From: marty D
Date: 18 May 01 - 08:12 PM

I wasn't sure what Herrinbone was made of, but those who have it on their guitars must be made of money! I expected them to put my Martin D-1 in a plastic garbage bag when I got it, but they actually gave me a case for it!

Just out of curiosity, I know that all the decoration doesn't add to the tone so I'm curious why some players go for the fancy ones. Is it like having a pretty girl on your arm?

marty

Subject: RE: Herringbone
From: Justa Picker
Date: 18 May 01 - 08:24 PM

Consider this Marty.
To a hard core, fanatical Martin collector and investor (-I'm not THAT hardcore!) the herringbone trim is a piece of Martin History, at least on the pre-war D-28's.
Think about this for a second. In the first quarter of 1946, the last herringbone NON-SCALLOPED BRACED D-28 rolled off the line. Talking straight bracing here. Tonally, a 1945 or 1946 straight-braced D-28 is identical (all things, woods, etc. being equal) to say an early to mid 50's D-28. The ONLY difference is the herringbone trim vs. celluloid binding....YET......a straight braced herringbone 28 from late 1945 or early 1946 is worth 3 times what a celluloid bound D-28 from the 50s costs.

George Gruhn recently had a 1946 herringbone D-28 on his web site for the sticker price of $15K, and at the same time had an early 50s D-28 for 5K. 10 grand is a ludicrous amount of money to pay for the historical decoration of herringbone, but obviously certain people are willing to pay it. Matt Umanov has a 1945 non-scalloped herringbone D-28 on his web site for 15K. I shake my head and laugh at people who pay this kind of money for herringbone trim, when for a few years later, they can saved 2/3rds of the cost and have the same playabilty and tone... but that's just me.

Subject: RE: Herringbone
From: catspaw49
Date: 18 May 01 - 08:48 PM

JP....Thanks for the Martin book segment. I really didn't have any idea how long Martin had used it. BTW, most of the plastics are made here in the US.......What a surprise huh?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Herringbone
From: Sorcha
Date: 18 May 01 - 09:24 PM

Huh. Long, long time ago, I interned summers for S.L. Mossman, back when he was alive and made guitars. Jim Hale (J.R. Hale) was his inlay person and designed the fingerboard inlay for the Golden Era custom....that big fancy vine design. (Jim's initals are incorporated into the design).

This is neat info, thanks!

Subject: RE: Herringbone
From: Deckman
Date: 19 May 01 - 04:49 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Herringbone
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 19 May 01 - 06:03 PM

Whaddya know Sorcha. I was friends with Jim hale for a couple of years when he lived in Toronto. He did a "tree of life" inlay on my 71 Larrivee. I didn't know about the "initials" so I just checked an old photo of it (sold it years ago) and youse is right! Small world.

Rick

Subject: RE: Herringbone
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 May 01 - 06:18 PM

Rick, do you have any idea where he is now? Too common a name to try do a net search on. He is (was?) a real genius with inlay. (They let me sand bridges.....boring, but the weed was good,lol!)