BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!

Subject: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 20 May 01 - 02:43 PM

I believe Micca might find this clarification helpful. When running a singaround-does one go clockwise ,anticlockwise, singer/musician/singer/musician, in order of arrival and the big question -do you miss out the melodeon player completely? (private joke Yorkshire Gathering

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 01 - 03:32 PM

Should be widdershins, Ickle

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Noreen
Date: 20 May 01 - 03:57 PM

Nice one, Ickle...

I prefer clockwise (antiwiddershins) and each person getting their chance to do whatever they wish- though I'm getting a bit better at the 'every-man-or-woman-for-him-or-her-self-jump-in-as-soon-as-the-previous-performer-draws-breath-no-holds-barred-blood-on-the-carpet' scenario which takes over at times... *BG*

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Lanfranc
Date: 20 May 01 - 05:42 PM

I seem to recall that it was Noreen's supper that made us go widdershins in the first place! It worked OK for a bit, but late arrivals, trips to the rest room, the bar, and returnees from the ceilidh confused things. Then we had the volume (quality?) competition with the free reed mafia in the other bar!

But WE didn't sing "Wild Rover"!

I blame the beer, it made some assertive, some impervious, and some just plain oblivious.

And as for the melodeon player...........?

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 20 May 01 - 06:47 PM

Actually Lanfranc, I reckon you did a sterling job, creating order out of chaos -sorry about the spelling but me 'ead 'urts as we say in 'Ull!

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 20 May 01 - 07:32 PM

I prefer the free for all type sessions to any other format.

One problem I have noticed in formats that use rotation based on where people sit (and I've seen this happen on singers nights at folk clubs where the situation can be worse if each singer does 3) is that people who like the same type of songs or tunes are often friends who sit together. End result could be 4 dirges followed by 4 instrumentals where alternating dirges and tunes would be preferable.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 May 01 - 08:19 PM

If you go three time widdershins when there is a full moon - doesn't 'Auld Nick collect all your souls in a bucket????
Quack!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: hesperis
Date: 20 May 01 - 10:39 PM

"All your souls"? One person has more than one soul? Really?

The opposite of widdershins is deosil, but I prefer to term them "earthwise" and "sunwise", respectively. It just seems so much more romantic.

Subject: LYR ADD: Song of Enchantment
From: katlaughing
Date: 20 May 01 - 11:31 PM

SONG OF ENCHANTMENT

A song of enchantment I sang me there,
In a green-green wood, by waters fair,
Just as the words came up to me
I sang it under the wild wood tree.

Widdershins turned I,singing it low,
Watching the wild birds come and go;
No cloud in the deep dark blue to be seen
Under the thick-thatched branches green.

Twilight came; silence came;
The planet of evening's silver flame;
By darkening paths I wandered through
Thickets trembling with drops of dew.

- Walter de la Mare -

set to music by Benjamin Britten

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: hesperis
Date: 21 May 01 - 01:09 AM

Hmmm... "widdershins" can be romantic.

Just don't bark it.

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Noreen
Date: 21 May 01 - 08:39 AM

Kat, that is lovely... thick-thatched branches green ... mmm. Never heard it before, and I'd love to sing it.

Noreen

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 21 May 01 - 10:50 AM

Jon - I'd not thought of that clumps of similar stuff problem. But blimey!! Its a definite danger.
How does the free for all thing work though? How does it even itself out - do you need everyone to be equally assertive? And how do you avoid the self-proclaimed-hero type taking over & hogging the session?
I'm hopeless at just jumping into a gap - just in case everyone hates me....

Kris

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 21 May 01 - 11:06 AM

A lot depends on how many are in the room and if the person who is (nominally) in charge knows everybody and what sort of stuff they are likely to do. But the only fair way is to go around the room and let everyone take their turn. Some people won't 'just jump in' and prefer to be invited (that's not me of course!).

In the meantime, to everyone who attends singarounds or whatever you have in your neck of the woods, it is useful to bear in mind what has gone on just before. It's best to have two or three alternatives ready for when it comes to your turn. Or if that's not possible, just ask the person organising if he or she wouldn't mind coming back to you later if you think that your next rendition won't fit too well with what's gone just before.

I know - I was that melodeon player!

Les

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Midchuck
Date: 21 May 01 - 11:07 AM

- I'd not thought of that clumps of similar stuff problem. But blimey!! Its a definite danger.

Most definitely. Especially if the people sitting together are lovers of either (a) very long a cappella trad. ballads about making harps out of your lady love's breastbone and stuff, or (b) very long self-written songs with one chord, about one's Feelings - usually in a strange tuning that it takes five minutes for the singer to get into to his/her satisfaction. Three or four of either one in a row can blow an evening - unless that's what everyone there came to hear.

How does the free for all thing work though?

In my experience, it often doesn't.

How does it even itself out - do you need everyone to be equally assertive? And how do you avoid the self-proclaimed-hero type taking over & hogging the session?

In order: As noted above, it often doesn't. Yes, and they never are. You don't, if you forgot to bring a gun or at least Pepper spray or mace.

I'm hopeless at just jumping into a gap - just in case everyone hates me....

I'm very good at it. So everyone hates me. I'm a reforming self-proclaimed hero type. Like a reforming alcoholic. You're never "cured."

Peter.

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: mooman
Date: 21 May 01 - 11:10 AM

All I know is I couldn't stop waggling that large carrot in a lewd manner when it came to my (unexpected) turn!

mooman

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: mousethief
Date: 21 May 01 - 11:46 AM

According to the medievals, each human being has 3 souls: a vegetable soul, an animal soul, and a human or "immortal" soul.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Les from Hull
Date: 21 May 01 - 11:49 AM

So what happens if your vegetable soul is a lemon soul?

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Noreen
Date: 21 May 01 - 12:05 PM

To explain mooman's carrot reference for those who weren't there :
Mrs Duck proclaimed the Friday evening singaround a 'Karotoke' session, which entailed doing your bit when you were passed the carrot- yes, a real root vegetable type carrot (which I hope didn't have a soul, Alex- especially as the dog ate it at the end of the evening). This worked well, apart from those who got distracted by holding a carrot while singing... and Joan from Wigan nearly julienned the carrot through her guitar strings...

D'you think it might catch on? All credit goes to Mrs D... :0)

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 21 May 01 - 12:37 PM

So what happens if your vegetable soul is a lemon soul?

Broil it, and serve with melted butter. Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: mousethief
Date: 21 May 01 - 01:29 PM

Carrots have souls, just not animal souls or immortal souls.

Lemons are fruit.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: GUEST,Willa
Date: 21 May 01 - 06:11 PM

Kat; thanks for reminding me of that lovely poem

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: GUEST
Date: 21 May 01 - 10:22 PM

Ummm. Our local song circle goes around in either direction. Direction is set by the first three people who show up that evening. Not often do we get a clumping problem as we have a fair mixture of abilities so those with greater repertoire tend to shift what they intended to sing to something that might breakup a dirgish trend or a too comic bent. There are those who feel that one sad song ruins the whole evening but they aren't any friends of mine so I don't care about what they think.

Widdershins now. Does taht mean that if you are facing suth you go against the sun by heading west and south or, if you're facing north, you go against the sun by heading west and north?

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 21 May 01 - 11:00 PM

kris, Most of the free for alls I have been in have been mostly instrumental sessions but, either way, I think you will find that most people are able to just work things out amongst themselves and don't want to dominate. As for evening itself out, I think it does in terms of people getting a fair share of what they want to do on a given night - someone maybe bursting to sing a few or on exceptional form one week, not feel like doing much the next...

When you do get the very shy person, it does help if those with more experience try to encorage and maybe invite them to do a song or tune. As for the hoggers, it depends on the group but in my experience, one of the stronger members of a group is likely to jump in quickly and play or sing strongly, maybe there are some looks given, a song may get a cold reception, etc. the "offender" gets the message and with luck balance is restored.

Jon

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: LR Mole
Date: 22 May 01 - 12:49 PM

Read, if you fall over it at some library sale, "Poe Must Die" by Mark Olden. Widdishens figure in the titanic last match. "Celts of Old have Come..."

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: GUEST
Date: 22 May 01 - 02:54 PM

Guest.Widdershins; contrary to the course of the sun.

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Rollo
Date: 22 May 01 - 05:30 PM

Don`t believe what they tell you about withershins. I went withershins through the noon shade of a church tower. It didn`t work, no faries came to capture me. Although I tried three times.

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: hesperis
Date: 22 May 01 - 07:24 PM

Are you sure, Rollo? Or do you need to see Spaw about special rates for the room "Do You Believe In Magic"?

Subject: RE: BS: oh bollocks - it's widdishins again!
From: Tig
Date: 23 May 01 - 01:44 PM

The karatoke worked well, even if what Mrs Duck did to the carrot made Micca wince.

As a reluctant singer either way works, so long as people have the curtesy to realise that some of us won't be very good/have only a limited number of songs/may want to miss out one round but join in the next. It really bugs me if I opt out once and am then ignored for the rest of the evening.

Or should I just get put in the same catagory as melodeon players and stick to telling story .....