POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: CamiSu
Date: 24 May 01 - 07:39 PM

As a voter in Vermont, I can say that I, for one will certainly vote again for Jim Jeffords, as I have in the past several elections. He is a man of integrity, who votes his own conscience, and considers the consequences of his actions thoroughly.

I'm not entirely certain that our "President" does this. He seems to think he has a huge mandate, and does not seem too interested in considering any ideas besides his own. Now we will again have dialogue, rather than orders given. While I realise that it has not been entirely smooth sailing for this new administration, they do seem to take the attitude that it ought to be. GUEST, it is significant that he is now an independant. He has change a whole lot of things (like committee chairs, as well as Majority Leader) but has not jumped on the D bandwagon. Yes he could always vote his conscience, but now, the Democrats will have much more to say about the appointment of judges, something I'm sure is not lost on the Republicans who spent so many years keeping benches empty during Clinton's terms.

But I must admit that I am very pleased to be a Vermonter, and proud of our delegation on Capitol Hill, as well as of the state Legislature that enacted the Civil Union law (which I hope manages to stand up to the people who would repeal it) (Please pardon the poor syntax there)

My friend called me just after the news conference to say "I haven't been so happy since Nixon resigned!" He's been thanking any Vermonter he's met all day since.

CamiSu

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: CarolC
Date: 24 May 01 - 07:08 PM

On the subject of questioning whether or not he left the Republican party because of promises made by Democrats, I think that's a double edged sword. Because it then opens up the possibility of discussion about whether or not the Republican party used promises to coax Democrats like Sen. Nighthorse Campbell, Sen. Shelby, Sen. Thurmond, Sen. Byrd, and Sen. Morse, to leave the Democratic party.

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: Sandy Paton
Date: 24 May 01 - 07:08 PM

Jeffords' move may be the salvation of the nation. Consider the impact on potential Senate approval of the Supreme Court appointments to be made by the man who tells us his favorite Justices are Scalia and Thomas -- that's "Leave No Child Behind" Bush (unless, of course, that child needs Special Ed attention). Jim Jeffords may save a damn sight more than the caribou.

Sandy

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: DougR
Date: 24 May 01 - 07:07 PM

McGrath, I believe that is the way vacancies are filled due to death or resignation. Evidently I was mistaken about the facts regarding other Senators who had switched parties during their terms.

Melani, Greg and I are not getting nasty. This is just our way of discussing differences.

DougR

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 May 01 - 06:29 PM

I thought that one of the things about the American parliamentary system was that it was expected that senators would and should be independent anyway, and that it was quite customary to have them vote against the party line. So what's the problem if one of them wants to express that more openly, and describe himself formally as "independent"?

Doug R suggests he should have resigned his seat, and asked the voters to vote him back in - but my understanding was that you don't have by-elections in this kind of situation - when a senate seat becomes vacant, doesn't the state governor appoint one of his mates, who is quite often going to be from another party from the previous senator?

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 24 May 01 - 05:41 PM

Greg and Doug, please don't get nasty. I would really like to have an intelligent discussion of issues without name calling. I am assuming that there are some bad guys who don't care about anything but making a bigger profit, but what I would like to know is why a regular normal citizen who does not own an oil company thinks that the current Republican policies are the right way to go? (If you will excuse the pun.)

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: DougR
Date: 24 May 01 - 05:32 PM

And I'm sure, Greg, you feel perfectly justified in projecting the self-serving bent of the current Democratic left bent on anyone, right?

If you prefer the word, "defect" to "desert" okay by me. Defect seems to be the common term being used by the media.

As to whether or not certain promises were made by the Democrats, I guess we will have to wait and see, right?

DougR

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 24 May 01 - 05:16 PM

I think the snubbing of Jeffords by G. Dubya & Co. had a lot to do with this. The message the Republicans were sending him was that if he voted his concience and opposed them, they would stomp him. Not inviting him to the "Teacher of the Year" ceremony when the teacher was from his home state was really rather nasty. And as the parent of a special kid, I was very interested to hear that he and Bush differed on Bush's cutting of the special ed budget.

I grew up in a family of Illinois Republicans, who were not nasty people. I find it really hard to believe that decent, normal Republicans around the country think it's a good idea to despoil wilderness areas and cut education funding. The few bucks I will get back as a result of lower taxes will not pay to educate my kid. I couldn't put him in private school even if I could afford it--there are no private schools that I have been able to find for a kid like him. The few special private schools that are around are for autistic kids with such severe behavior problems that the public schools can't deal with them.

My husband and I both work for our livings and don't depend on things like welfare or medicare, but there are really some things that just have to be taken care of by public funding. A monster tax cut is only going to hurt my kid.

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: Greg F.
Date: 24 May 01 - 05:09 PM

He didn't "desert his party"- the party deserted him. And if the "Dems had made him an offer he couldn't refuse", he'd have declared as a Democrat, not an independent.

Don't project the self-serving bent of current Republican-Right practice onto everyone, Doug. This man doesn't deserve that sort of cheap shot.

Best, Greg

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: SDShad
Date: 24 May 01 - 04:37 PM

DougR wrote:

"I believe he is the first Senator that has not resigned his post first, and then try to regain his seat as a candidate of his new party."

Not even close to true. That's what Phil Gramm did when he was a House Democrat in 1983, but there have been numerous examples of sitting national legislators switching parties while in office. Just the Senators:

Sen. Ben Nighthorse Campbell, CO (D to R 1995) Sen. Richard Shelby, AL (D to R 1994) Sen. Strom Thurmond, SC (D to R 1964) Sen. Harry Byrd, VA (D to I 1971) Sen. Wayne Morse, OR (R to I 1952, I to D, 1955)

Quite a few more Congressmen have switched from D to R in the last decade or so; several lost their seats at the next election, but not a one of them resigned first and then ran for their seat again as you suggest, Doug. That dog just won't hunt.

Shad

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: GUEST
Date: 24 May 01 - 04:21 PM

1st rule of politics! Timing is Everything!

Quick, name all 10 New England Senators.

Funny, you mentioned Jeffords first.

Last week I'll bet it would have bee close to last.

You do realize he could always have voted as he chose.

Party has nothing to do with that.

And, he didn't join anything, just quit something.

We'll have to let the folks in Vermont decide whether he's a phony now or still "as advertised".

And, that tax thing isn't a done deal. . .yet!

Da heftygal ain't sung, anything could happen.

As some very wise person once said, "Never forget this is politics, not beanbag!"

And, last I checked, political stalemate doesn't necessarily bode ill for those in power.

This may hurt us peasants and leave dubya unscratched.

Fingerpointing is the #3 skill in poliland (right after getting elected and getting paid).

Last! When an issue arrises that riles the public and has no simple answers (science based) Pols traditionally turn to fingerpointing, but you cannot do that when your party has both house and senate.

Or perhaps you think the people will patiently to ride this out til fuel efficient cars replace SUV's or power plants are built or the Saudi's drop the barrel price.

Without question Clinton's most tenuous time was his first two years when 'crats had a lock on the hill.

It was after the 94' revolt, that he found time for "fooling around." Fingerpointing don't takeup much of your day.

My thoughts.

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: DougR
Date: 24 May 01 - 04:01 PM

Just had another thought, Melani, if Jim Jeffords is so confident of his support back home, I wonder why he didn't follow the traditional way Senators who have previously deserted their party did?

I believe he is the first Senator that has not resigned his post first, and then try to regain his seat as a candidate of his new party.

I think the Democrats made him an offer he couldn't refuse. Mr. D. wants to be Majority Leader pretty bad.

DougR

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 24 May 01 - 03:55 PM

Possiby, Doug, but then what is a Republican nowadays? Apparently not what it was when Jeffords joined the party.

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: DougR
Date: 24 May 01 - 03:52 PM

Think there might have been some supporters who voted for him as a Republican who did not show up for his speech, though, Melaii?

DougR

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 24 May 01 - 03:50 PM

As for Jeffords' constituents who elected him as a Republican, did you hear them in the background as he made his announcement, chanting, "Thank you, Jim! Thank you, Jim!"?

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: DougR
Date: 24 May 01 - 03:26 PM

I am truly delighted that so many of my Mudcat friends are having a good day because of the Jefford's move. I think he did what he felt that he should do, and I hope he finds contenment in his new role.

As to the tax cut, don't be surprised to see a larger cut than the 3.3 Trillion when the joint conference is completed it's work.

Not being cute or sarcastic, I truly am happy for you folks.

DougR

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: Tedham Porterhouse
Date: 24 May 01 - 03:15 PM

There may be a few upset Republicans in Vermont, but most of us are pretty happy with Senator Jeffords' move out of the Republican Party. Our other senator, Patrick Leahy is a liberal Democrat and our one congressman, Bernie Saunders, is the only socialist in Congress.

By the way, I sometimes see Bernie hanging out at the Champlain Valley Folk Festival.

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: CarolC
Date: 24 May 01 - 03:02 PM

I think I'm going to enjoy watching the news (News Hour With Jim Leherer) tonight.

I also think it would have been nice if he had done it before the tax cut travesty, but there's no way I'm going to look this gift horse in the mouth.

The world feels like a slightly brighter place today.

Carol

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: SDShad
Date: 24 May 01 - 02:59 PM

And in addition, the fact that Jeffords has promised Bush that his change of affiliation won't take effect until a conference committee works out differences between the House and Senate versions of the tax cut, and the bill is sent to the President, makes your statement even less sensical, Doug. Jeffords did not oppose all tax cuts; it's just that he (correctly) saw the original Bush plan as little more than a sop for the rich.

And for that he has been absolutely pilloried by Bush, Lott, and their right-wing henchmen. Me, I think even the revised tax cut is still pretty much a sop for the rich, but I've still got to admire Jeffords for sticking to his principles.

Shad

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: Jim the Bart
Date: 24 May 01 - 02:38 PM

No offense, Doug, but "It must be nice to have so much money that one got a tax cut" - would be more like it, I'm afraid.

I don't think the Jeffords change would have headed the tax cut off, though. It was going to be on the agenda regardless of who was in charge of the Senate; at least this way we'll see exactly how foolish (or successful) the tax cut idea is.

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: DougR
Date: 24 May 01 - 01:04 PM

It must be nice to have so much money one doesn't need a tax cut. :>)

DougR

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 24 May 01 - 01:01 PM

Wise words Shula. I concur.

Rick

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: Shula
Date: 24 May 01 - 12:59 PM

Dear Folks,

If only he had done this *before* the tax cut travesty!

Shalom,

Shula

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: InOBU
Date: 24 May 01 - 12:21 PM

Dear Jeep: Just concider it a trade for Night Horse Campbell. Heartfelt Condolences to you and Uncle Jaque, Congrats to the rest of the nation. ;-) Larry

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: SDShad
Date: 24 May 01 - 12:18 PM

Actually, Jeep man, Vermont voters seem to have elected him for who he is rather than for whatever meaningless capital letter appears after his name during TeeVee interviews. His popularity numbers have never been higher in Vermont than since he started to buck the Bush "Administration." They rightly don't give a damn about his political affiliation so long as they feel he represents them, which they obviously do.

But then again, this is the (so far only) state that has acknowledged same-sex unions, so I wouldn't count on any right-wing backlash in Vermont amounting to a hill of beans. But considering how the Republican power structure in D.C. is threatening to start gunning for Jeffords now, I do think this was a courageous decision. If I were a Vermonter, and even if I had voted against him last time, I'd sure as hell vote for him next time. Good man.

Oh, and I of course love the added benefit that this will finally result in South Dakota's own Tom Daschle (a fellow Dakota German-Russian, thank you very much) becoming Majority Leader. He deserves it.

S[outh]D[akota]Shad

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: SINSULL
Date: 24 May 01 - 12:10 PM

JM, I guess it depends on whether they voted by party or for a man. Think he is putting himself in line for a run for the presidency with liberal Republican and Democratic backing?

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: Jeep man
Date: 24 May 01 - 12:00 PM

Does anyone remember the good voters of Vermont who elected a republican to the senate? I would feel sold out. Jeep

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: kendall
Date: 24 May 01 - 11:45 AM

I sent him an e mail to congratulate him. Maybe now we will get rid of Trent Lott and Dick Armey. Those right wing wackos never learn, they forced Dan Quayle onto Bush, and, I dont think it did them any good.

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: Whistle Stop
Date: 24 May 01 - 11:40 AM

This is very good news -- both for how it will change the current workings of the Senate, and for the message it sends to the far-right elements of the Republican party. They might start to get the message that their increasing extremism will cost them members, and strength. It'll drive the message home that much more if a few other Republicans follow suit.

Subject: RE: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: Peg
Date: 24 May 01 - 10:13 AM

I just heard his announcement on the radio and it is being discussed on NPR on The Connection right. I think this may bode well for our country in the next several years...we can hope, anyway...

Subject: POL: A Salute to Jim Jeffords!
From: GUEST,Greg F. (remote location)
Date: 24 May 01 - 09:55 AM

Congratulations are due to Senator James Jeffords of Vermont for sticking to his principles and announcing as an independent- the Republican Party having moved so far to the right as to be barely recognizeable as the Party he joined 30 years ago.

Here's hoping that other Republican moderates (an endangered species for some years) will follow suit.

Best, Greg