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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST,Amos Date: 07 Jun 01 - 04:38 PM ANd therein lies a tale -- given that averages are based on statistical analyses much revered as a form of validity in some disciplines. The Q of the Century is, "Who DOES qualify as average???". I appreciate the valuable insights one can get using statistical methods, but the problem is that what's under a statistical curve has no owner. What's in an individual very much does. A |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Patrish(inactive) Date: 08 Jun 01 - 04:04 AM Thanks Kris, I had planned to run in the election and take over the country as leader of the apathy party - but I couldn't be bothered. Patrish |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: KingBrilliant Date: 08 Jun 01 - 06:04 AM That's fine Patrish - I wouldn't have bothered to vote for you..... :>) Kris |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST Date: 08 Jun 01 - 10:16 AM Joan Baez has suspended all of her activities to care for her younger sister, Mimi Farina. Mimi is in the late stages of terminal lung cancer. Mimi is also a wonderful folk singer and committed social activist. She has devoted most of the past 20+ years to running Bread & Roses, a non-profit organization that brings free entertainment to people confined to institutions. Mimi is only 56 years old. Another great person brought down by the utter stupidity of smoking. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Justa Picker Date: 08 Jun 01 - 10:28 AM Kim, As far as Keith Richards, yep he should be dead by now, but what many people do not realize, is that, that curly cord coming out of his guitar is actually an umbilical link, connected to all sorts of life support systems, housed just out of audience site, back stage. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler Date: 08 Jun 01 - 10:37 AM Well, I've never smoked and my stupidity has been amply and embarassingly demonstrated many times in these threads. I'll have to put it down to being raised in a smoking household and too many mis-spent hours in smoky jazz clubs in my "youth". In the 100 Club in London in the '70s you came out reeking of Chinese food as well as tobacco smoke! RtS (Dim as a TocH lamp) |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST,Gaffer Date: 17 Jun 01 - 03:09 PM On the contrary : stupidity makes you smoke. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST Date: 17 Jun 01 - 03:29 PM As a high school teacher, I can confirm that, in general, it's the stupider kids that smoke. The smarter kids seem to understand that smoking is for losers. I can also tell you that the smokers have real problems paying attention when they haven't had a nicofix in the past hour or so. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST,Kim C no cookie Date: 18 Jun 01 - 11:28 AM I would really like to know who is this GUEST who has a corncob up his/her butt about other people's personal habits, and why he/she is picking on smoking in particular. Some people would argue that drinking is stupid. Many, many people die every year because of alcohol. Others become very ill. Some would argue that having sex without protection is stupid. Others might argue that having sex at all is stupid. I do not cotton to being called stupid by someone who has never met me. I am most definitely not stupid. Have I ever done stupid things, Why, yes, I have. I imagine our GUEST has too. But as I said before, I am determined to enjoy my life. If it involves a cigar once in awhile, that's my business and none of yours. Unless we happen to be in the same room together and you would rather me not smoke, in which case I am happy to go outdoors. Pass the Macanudos, please. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST,Patrish Date: 18 Jun 01 - 11:39 AM I agree completely with Kim C cookieless or not, infact seem to have cookie problem myself. Enjoy the cigars and you dont have to stand outside for me Patrish |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Sourdough Date: 18 Jun 01 - 03:27 PM While following this thread over the past few days, I have had a number of thoughts: Several years ago, while I was still a smoker, I created a video program for Simon & Schuster and the American Cancer Society called "Freshstart: 21 Days to Stop Smoking." In the middle of writing the script, I came down with bronchiitis and very naturally stopped smoking for about a week while my lungs recovered. When I started feeling better, I had the thought, "Why don't I stop smoking now? I have already got a one week head start on it?" THis healthy thought was met by a string of rationalizations from another part of my personality, all aimed at telling me that it really was all right for me to return to smoking. Here are some examples of their rather questionable quality: "Now that I have moved from the East Coast to California, I am no longer breathng the exhalations of a continent of home, automobile and industrial air pollution. THe air I am breathing is coming clean off the Pacific. Surely this is the equivalent of having given up smoking in Washington D.C." "I am smoking low tar and nocotine cigarettes so I'll be fine." "My grandfathers smoked cigars all their lives and had no problems. I am not genetically predisposed towards these cancers." I knew better than these arguments because I had dealt with them in a section I had written about the rationalizations people have for smoking. I had been so intent that this video be accurate and powerful that I had really examined my own rationalizations unmercifully even though I had no real intention of giving up smoking. Now that I was going to my own rationalizations for support of the decision I wanted to make, that it is fine for me to continue smoking, I was forced to confront the flimsiness of my rationales. Suddenly, I discovered that to continue smoking, after having admittted to myself what I had, would mean giving up a great deal of self-respect. I was a bit angry at this turn of events but reluctantly I did give up smoking. Some good things started happenening pretty quickly. The first was that I no longer had to knock the ashes off the tyopescript when I put it into an envelope to send to the Cancer Society for their approval. The second thing was that I dodn't have to sneak out of ACS meetings to hide in their bathrooms for a smoke. However, the biggest advantage was the removal of what I had learned in college was something called "cognitive dissonance". I no longer had to spend energy defending myself not just those who criticized my smoking but from my own criticism. I think my self-respect had become a little frayed by my having continued to smoke after the Surgeon General's Reports made it clear that it was bad for me. I never was comfortable saying, "It's my life to do with what I want" or "I could give up cigarettes but I really enjoy smoking". Becasue more and more people were giving up smoking I had also noticed that I had begun doing something I noticed that my friends who had a drinking problem were prone to do, using as a criterion for companionship whether or not a person smoked rather than their interests, personality, etc. As far as smoking making you stupid goes, I doubt it but I have seen the surveys that show that among mature smokers, (this does not include the new crop of high school and college age smokers), there is an increasing correlation between education level, income level, and smoking. This has been noticed by the cigarette companies who are targeting these people with advertising to take advantage of the predisposition. And one more topic: There is an argument that goes that society has the right to stop people from smoking because it is society, not the individual, who must pay for the ravages of smoking. I think this is a very dangerous argument. Using it, one could outlaw of at least place some sort of health tax on anyone who skateboards, rock climbs, motorcycles, flies small planes, etc. A "safe" life is one in which the individual does nothing that puts him in harm's way. Not only is that a boring life, I think it is terrible for society. What kind of civilization would that create? I expect that the standards would soon change after the "big" risks were handled. The new big risks might be driving a car, getting on a commercial airliner. Sourdough |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: bill\sables Date: 18 Jun 01 - 03:48 PM In answer to our friend "GUEST" who seems to think that smokers are "Stupid". I presume that he/she is a non-smoker and considers him/herself more intelligent than us lesser mortals who do indeed smoke, I have compiled a list of "Stupid" people who do or did smoke; Albert Einstein - Philosopher Frederick Marryatt - Author Tom Savery - Inventor Lord Roy Mason - Politician Tony Benn - Politician Rt. Hon. Emanual Shinwell Statesman Sir Ralph Richardson - Actor Charlie Chaplin - Actor Enrico Caruso - Opera Singer George Stephenson - Inventor and Engineer Groucho Marx - Actor Henry Cooper - Boxer Ian Botham - Cricket Player Chief Sitting Bull - Warrior Sir Winston Churchill - Statesman Dr Bull - Arch Bishop Sir John Millais - Artist Rudyard Kipling - Author James Galway - Musician Rupert Davies - Actor Andrew Cruickshank - Actor Peter Cushing - Actor Jack Hargreaves - Broadcaster Warren Mitchell - Actor Eric Morcambe - Comedian Frank Muir - Broadcaster Harold Wilson - Statesman Fred Trueman - Cricket Player and Broadcaster Magnus Magnusson - Scholar and Broadcaster Dave Lee Travis - Radio DJ Sir Patrick Moore - Astronomer Jimmy Greaves - Soccer Star David Bryant - Bowler Rod Hull - Entertainer Prof. Jimmy Edwards - Actor Thomas Carlyle - Author General De Gall - Politician Auberon Waugh - Author Sir Walter Raleigh - Explorer and Navigator Isambard Kingdom Brunell Engineer and Inventor Sir Charles Kingsley - Author Sir Francis Drake - Explorer Captain James Cook - Explorer Our friend "GUEST" also states that smokers die younger, please consider these few facts. Sir Compton Mackenzie - Author, died at the age of 89 P.G. Wodehouse - Author, died aged 94 Stanley Baldwin - Politician, died aged 80 Sir John Geilgud - Actor, died aged 93 J.B.Priestly - Author, died aged 90 These are just a few "smokers" who are world renowned personalities but there is also: Rick Fielding - Singer and Musician Max Speigel - Inventor of Mudcat Pat Patterson (Catspaw) - Thinker and Humorist I would like to suggest that "GUEST" who started this thread, and thinks that all the above people are "Idiots" , gives us his/her real name so as we can place him/her on a pedestal and honour a really intelligent person as "GUEST" obviously thinks he/she is. Bill Sables - Idiot Smoker
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: mousethief Date: 18 Jun 01 - 04:15 PM Add J.R.R. Tolkien and C.S. Lewis, English professors and authors. Alex |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: mousethief Date: 18 Jun 01 - 04:16 PM Oh, and on your longetivity list, add George Burns, 99. Alex |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Kim C Date: 18 Jun 01 - 05:10 PM People who smoke can't be too stupid. Tobacco is an expensive habit and "you want fries with that" ain't gonna quite pay for it. Didn't George Burns live to be 100? Smoking affects different people in different ways. Not everyone is going to get sick and die from it. In my father's last days, his doctors did not try to dissuade him from smoking. It wasn't going to help him anyway. They told him to do whatever the hell he damn well wanted. And as I said, it was diabetes that killed him, and not Pall Malls. Last time I checked this was still America and we could still make choices about how we want to live. And I ain't gonna be one of those people on the Titanic who skipped dessert. :-) |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: mousethief Date: 18 Jun 01 - 05:25 PM No, alas, George Burns died at 99. He was shooting for 100, and damned near made it, but not quite. Alex |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST Date: 18 Jun 01 - 05:37 PM Dear Bill Sables, My real name doesn't matter. Just know that I'm dying of lung cancer at the age of 44. Three months ago, I was told I had less than a year left. Sometime in the next few months, I'll make my last posting to Mudcat. You said about me: "I presume that he/she is a non-smoker and considers him/herself more intelligent than us lesser mortals who do indeed smoke." I wish I could say that. Unfortunately, I was stupid to start smoking at the age of 15. Less than 30 years of smoking about 15-20 cigarettes a day was enough to kill me. I was stupid every time I lit a cigarette. Many of the facts about smoking were already well known by the time I was stupid enough to start. You mention Pat Patterson (Catspaw) as a smoker. In view of the health problems he's suffered through, I hope he's smart enough to stop. Dear Kim C, You're right. Not everyone who smokes will die from it. I hope you'll be one of the lucky ones. BTW, several of the Guest postings to this thread were not by me. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Kim C Date: 18 Jun 01 - 05:50 PM GUEST, I am sorry for your troubles. I wish you had made that clear to begin with. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: bill\sables Date: 18 Jun 01 - 06:37 PM GUEST, I too am very sorry to hear of your troubles and appologise if my answer to your thread caused you any discomfort. Bil Sables |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Patrish(inactive) Date: 19 Jun 01 - 03:47 AM Dear Guest, I am very sorry to hear that you have lung cancer and can understand why you have posted as guest. I apologise if any of my postings have made you feel worse. Patrish |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST,Denmark Date: 19 Jun 01 - 05:43 AM I'm truly sorry for those people who want to live and cannot. But I think we should elevate the discussion and realize that there are a lot of things that we cannot hope to rid the world of. People's smoking being one of them. And I do not believe that we get any wiser when we just team up in to opponent teams, and start discussions over who may og can throw the first, biggest og nicest stone with the strongest og nicest throw. There are more than two positions. Now for instance how much did Einstein smoke 40 or 50 a day? Hardly? How do we get along well across the smoking border. I think of the smoker as an addict, and in Denmark for alcoholics we are now discussing the idea of alcoholics aiming to drink less instead of getting all religion and hatred/fear-propelled Minnesoteans refusing alcohol altogether. I aim for better lives for more people rather than aiming to 'save' just 1-4%. Soften up ya'hear. I find little room in my life for condemming people with selfinflicted diseases. There should be blue skies and peace at mind also for the dying smoker. Nikolaj Severin Grundtvig has had an immense impact on Danish culture. He is the main contributor to the Danish Hymn Book, which is used in the Danish State Church. He said: First be human then believer. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: pavane Date: 19 Jun 01 - 05:55 AM Nowhere have I seen the statistical nature of the risk of lung cancer explained, so here goes, in my layman's understanding.
This explains why a) Some people can smoke for 30 or 40 years and not get cancer - it's just luck b) The risk of cancer diminishes rapidly after you stop smoking – no more intake of risky material c) Passive smokers can get lung cancer BTW My wife is a non-smoking singer, and her voice is badly affected by a smoky atmosphere.
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Tedham Porterhouse Date: 19 Jun 01 - 10:43 AM It seems to me that if the Guest's posts inspire even one smoker to think about quitting, they've done a valuable service to this community. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Fortunato Date: 19 Jun 01 - 11:22 AM Dear Guest, Mr. Butts, Thank you for your efforts to reduce the risk of illness and death caused by smoking for us all here at the Mudcat. I'm sure you know that many read these threads and never post. Your kindness to us all in raising these questions may have far reaching effects. I hope your days have some happiness in them. cheers, Chance Shiver |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: MMario Date: 19 Jun 01 - 02:26 PM pavane - oxygen can also trigger cancer, oxygen can cause many types of genetic damage, damage nerve function, cause blindness. Should we all stop breathing? guest - perhaps if you had mentioned a few facts (such as most of your last post) in your initial post the reactions of many of the rest of us would not have been so defensive. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Kim C Date: 19 Jun 01 - 02:45 PM We are all going to die from one thing or other. Not smoking doesn't ensure that I won't get cancer. As I stated I smoke RARELY, drink moderately, and for all intents and purposes, eat well, and exercise. I could get hit by a bus tomorrow and the only way to prevent that is not go out of the house... unless someone drives the bus INTO the house. I do not mean to belittle anyone's woes. What I'm saying is, death is inevitable for all of us. There's no getting around it, no matter what you do. And for most of us it is not a comfortable or pretty transition. Once in awhile I like to watch a show called Mysterious Ways. In one of the installments I watched, a policeman accidentally shot and killed his partner. He said, I wish I could go back and change it. He got his wish. He went back to yesterday, and didn't shoot his partner... who died of a heart attack instead. Fiction, yes... but it's true that while you may be able to cheat death one way, he will find another. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST,SharonA Date: 19 Jun 01 - 05:55 PM I remember, several years ago, describing my unhealthy diet to a co-worker. When he questioned my food choices, I said, "We all have to die sometime." His response was, "Tomorrow?" The point has been well made here that risk-taking and thoughts for one's safety and longevity must be weighed in the mind of each individual, and choices made. GUEST(S) has/have endeavored to help some of us make an informed choice. It is a shame that it took a revelation of one GUEST's impending death to change the tone of the thread from spurious to sympathetic. I could describe, in gory detail, my experience of having a lung biopsy and waiting to hear whether I had lung cancer (I do not, fortunately, but I do have sarcoidosis and must at all costs avoid secondhand smoke, chemical fumes, perfumes, etc.). But would my description convince someone to quit smoking? Would all the statistics in the world? Yes for some, no for others. A choice — informed, misinformed or not informed at all — is each individual's birthright. As stupid as it may sound, we have a right to be stupid (or, perhaps more properly, willful). If any of us is to change a habit or habits in an attempt to lead a life that is longer, healthier, more productive, more beneficial to society, more pleasant or whatever the goal(s) may be, one has to weigh one's will against one's willfulness. SharonA |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: CarolC Date: 19 Jun 01 - 06:20 PM Well, on the subject of who's smarter... my mother died from cigarette smoking last November. My dad (a non smoker) is now remarried and having a very nice life indeed. In fact, he's happier now than he's ever been. You be the judge. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Bill D Date: 19 Jun 01 - 06:26 PM In 1927, when my mother started smoking, it was all the rage, and we didn't know much about it,....she wasn't stupid, just part of the crowd....I wqas raised in a house full of smoke, but I always hated it, and NEVER took one puff of a cigarette on my own...my mother died at 78, of things not related to smoking, after 50+ years of cigarettes....statistically, SOME are gonna live a long time anyway, but smoking VERY much increases your odds of having problems.
and, it is very unpleasant to those around you who do NOT smoke..... please think....it may very well be that it was NOT stupid 30,40,50 years ago, but it is at the very least, foolhardy, to start now, or to continue... |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: CarolC Date: 19 Jun 01 - 08:53 PM There is one more point that I think is worth making re: the effect that smoking has on people other than the smoker.
If my mother hadn't died suddenly and unexpectedly, she would have died a long, slow, and very difficult death by emphysema. It would have fallen upon us, her family members to care for her and watch her long, slow, painful death. Is it fair or even consionable to put family members through such an experience needlessly? Had she died a long, slow death, we could have just turned her back on her if we wanted, I suppose. But is it fair or even consionable to put family in the position of having to make such a choice needlessly? Yes, long lasting terminal illnesses happen to non smokers, or for reasons other than smoking. But smoking related illnesses are preventable, and are therefore a needless way to put family members through hell. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: CarolC Date: 19 Jun 01 - 08:59 PM Oops. Turned *our* back on her. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: MMario Date: 19 Jun 01 - 11:42 PM all true. and I also can't deny I am addicted and should stop. But I also know that the recent posts are far less likely to get my dander up then seeing "smoking makes you stupid" |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Amos Date: 20 Jun 01 - 12:36 AM Smoking and intelligence are not uniformly correlated variables, obviously. But the proposition that smoking -- as a behavior based on an analysis of risk versus reward on whatever lines you define those things -- might be unintelligent is understandably tempting, especially within a purely mechanical and statistical framework as is favored by disciplined scientists as a correct method for discovering. I can see the calculation clearly and do not even disagree with it, because it is perfectly correct within its own frame of values and methods. But I have to say again that there is no individual who sits right on the center line of the bell curve of statistical distribution. A bell curve by definition cannot take into account those elements which make up thewhle picture of an individual. One thing it cannot account for, for example, is the strange miracle of shifting forces that occurs when an individual person up and decides something with complete clarity and intention. Another is the effects of non-mechanical intercessions like the communication of love, healing intentions, or the like. Dear Guest, I believe you have suffered enough and you deserve to turn your lungs back around and begin healing. Now. I will exercisewhatever intention I can bring to bear, in whatever frequency band I can exercise it, toward that decision, and I trust you will do likewise. Love, Amos |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Wolfgang Date: 20 Jun 01 - 05:30 AM The relative frequency of smoking is definitely not a bell curve, in case you meant that distribution, Amos. But one couldn't tell from what you posted. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Bill D Date: 20 Jun 01 - 11:04 AM I once knew a man who was a bus driver, and smoked when he could..up to 2 packs a day....then he became owner of a small shop where he sat behind a counter. His smoking rose past 3 packs a day, and he got VERY worried...so he quit! Cold turkey...just stopped. He said he sucked hard candies and such until the worst was past, but as Amos said, what one individual does can't easily be mapped. The interesting thing about my friend was, that his wife, who smoked only 2 or 3 cigarettes a day...(morning and at bedtime) could NOT give up her 'small' habit, and was almost angry at him for stopping a 3-pack habit. *shrug*....Addiction is a very strange thing, as those of us who post here daily can tell you. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: pavane Date: 21 Jun 01 - 09:04 AM MMario As others have pointed out, there is a difference between avoidable risks and unavoidable risks. Yes, Oxygen is can be very dangerous, especially as Ozone, but no-one has yet learned to live without it. On passive smoking, I was brought up in a family of heavy smokers, and have never smoked, but have what sounds to people like a smokers cough - maybe from too much smoke when I was young (Who knows). A number of members of my family have died of smoking-related illnesses, including lung cancer, stroke, and heart disease, and I don't wish to do the same. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Kim C Date: 21 Jun 01 - 09:57 AM If you want to change people's minds, the way to do it is to say, hey, I made a choice that is costing my life, here's what's happening, maybe you will make a better choice. If you want them to fight about it, you tell them they're stupid. What's that old saying about catching more flies with honey? |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: pavane Date: 21 Jun 01 - 10:18 AM Have consideration for others and for the environment. Many smokers throw their cigarette butts on the ground wherever they happen to be Tread them out on people's carpets Stub them out on plastic fittings quite apart from polluting the air with noxious fumes when others are trying to eat, drink, sing, etc. As noted above, consider the relatives who will have to care for you later |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Patrish(inactive) Date: 21 Jun 01 - 10:23 AM I can understand or at least I think I can (probably can't)how angry one can become when the result of your folly is terminal. But, and this is hard to say, as the above post it's my choice. I don't smoke in no smoking areas. I always ask if the choice is not hanging on a wall somewhere (no smoking sign) I like smoking - perhaps I am an addict and it may be the thing that causes my demise, but today at lunchtime I was nearly killed by a scaffolding section that landed ten feet away from me. (very scarey - had to have several cigarettes to calm down)This is not an excuse or maybe it is, but the major point is that it is my choice. My first sentence mentions the word "folly" you could always exchange the word for "stupid" if you wanted. You know this is a stupid thread! |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST,SharonA Date: 21 Jun 01 - 10:53 AM KimC sez: "If you want to change people's minds, the way to do it is to say, hey, I made a choice that is costing my life, here's what's happening, maybe you will make a better choice." Or you could use the old Spanish Inquisition method of changing minds. Crude, but effective. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: CarolC Date: 21 Jun 01 - 02:20 PM I have a neighbor who is dying from a smoking related illness. She is sort of lucky in that she has a boyfriend who looks after her to the extent that he can. She doesn't appear to have any family.
She has quite a bit of difficulty getting around. Mostly she only leaves her apartment with the assistance of her boyfriend. She looks like a skeleton. Her eyes are sunken in her head. When I see her, she looks too embarrased to say hi to me. She used to be quite friendly. When I first moved here, she looked like she was in her fifties. Now, almost four years later, she looks like she's in her eighties. It's probably hard enough for her boyfriend to have to see her go through this. Imagine how awful it would be for a husband or children to have to watch her enevitable decline, and certain death. Where is their choice in the matter? |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Kim C Date: 21 Jun 01 - 03:26 PM Probably the same place it would be if they were watching a loved one decline from any sort of illness, smoking-related or not. Life's a gamble no matter how you play. Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: CarolC Date: 21 Jun 01 - 03:54 PM But as I said before, smoking related illnesses are preventable. So when smokers makes the choice to take that gamble, they are not only making that choice for themselves, they are also making important choices for others as well.
I know that smokers probably don't see it this way, but for those of us who don't smoke but who have loved ones who do, it really is a matter of compassion.
Do smokers have the compassion to stop smoking and eliminate that potential cause of emotional distress for the benefit of their loved ones?
If a smoker becomes ill with a smoking related illness, do the loved ones of that smoker have the compassion to change that person's diapers when they can no longer get out of bed?
Should loved ones even be asked to make that choice? Are cigarettes more important than your loved ones? Because that's what it really boils down to in the end. Which is more important to you... tobacco or your loved ones? |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Kim C Date: 21 Jun 01 - 05:19 PM That's true but what I am saying is that even if you choose not to smoke you can still die of cancer, including lung cancer. Even if you live the healthiest lifestyle possible there is no way to guarantee that you won't contract a deadly disease, and your family members will have to empty your bedpan while they watch you waste away. That's not saying you shouldn't try to take care of yourself as best you can, if that's what you want to do. Illnesses may be preventable. Death is not. That's all I'm saying. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: CarolC Date: 21 Jun 01 - 05:50 PM I agree with you, Kim, that death and illnesses are inevitable a lot of the time when smoking is not involved. My main point is that the argument that a person's choice to smoke only effects him or her is incorrect. Even when non-smokers do not breathe the smoke, they can still be effected, sometimes under profoundly painful circumstances. So your choice is not really just a choice effecting you. By the way, I am not targeting you specifically with these points. I am targeting that one particular argument. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST,.gargoyle Date: 22 Jun 01 - 02:07 AM Your refering to the noxious weed right?
Not the rightous reefer.
Home grown's all right by me. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: CarolC Date: 22 Jun 01 - 03:50 AM Well, I don't know about you GUEST,.gargoyle, but the rightous reefer makes me stupid. And I really need the few brain cells I have left to take up the load of the ones that seem to have already gone missing.
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: Kim C Date: 22 Jun 01 - 12:17 PM Fair enough then, Carol. :-) |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST,SharonA Date: 22 Jun 01 - 12:35 PM Unless I missed something, no one has yet mentioned the stupidity of smoking in bed, falling asleep, setting one's home ablaze (and possibly neighboring apartments or row houses) and perhaps even dying and/or taking the life of a neighbor in that manner. Yet another means by which the smoker can affect others. |
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Subject: RE: smoking makes you stupid From: GUEST Date: 20 Jul 01 - 03:42 PM Mimi Farina -- lung cancer -- age 56. One of approximately 8,000 Americans who died prematurely this week from smoking. |
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