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Origins: City Four Square / No Night There

Joe Offer 13 Dec 97 - 02:55 PM
Joe Offer 13 Dec 97 - 03:44 PM
Bill D 15 Dec 97 - 05:29 PM
Bill D 15 Dec 97 - 05:34 PM
Joe Offer 29 Dec 97 - 02:46 PM
Bill D 29 Dec 97 - 05:39 PM
Joe Offer 03 Feb 09 - 01:55 PM
Bill D 03 Feb 09 - 07:30 PM
Art Thieme 03 Feb 09 - 11:04 PM
Art Thieme 03 Feb 09 - 11:17 PM
Nancy King 03 Feb 09 - 11:51 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Feb 09 - 11:55 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 04 Feb 09 - 12:00 AM
Ron Davies 04 Feb 09 - 12:03 AM
Bill D 04 Feb 09 - 12:18 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 04 Feb 09 - 04:24 PM
GUEST 19 Jan 11 - 10:27 PM
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Subject: ADD City Foursquare
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Dec 97 - 02:55 PM

I'm supposed to sing an old gospel song, city Foursquare, at a funeral on Sunday 12/14. I've heard the song a couple of times, but I don't really know it and I haven't been able to find the music. Can anybody post or e-mail the tune for me? thanks.
-Joe Offer-
Here are the lyrics:

CITY FOURSQUARE
(John R. Clements and H.P. Danks)


In the land of fadeless day
Lies a city foursquare.
It shall never fade away
For there is no night there.

Chorus
There is no death, no pain, no fears.
God will wipe away all tears
And they count not time by years
For there is no night there.

There the gates of pearl made
In the city foursquare.
And the streets in gold are laid
For there is no night there.

There the gates are never closed
In the city foursquare.
There God’s crystal fountain flows
For there is no night there.


There they need no sunshine bright
In the city foursquare.
For the lamb is all the light
For there is no night there.

Score ad Cyber Hymnal (click)


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Subject: RE: City Foursquare - tune?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Dec 97 - 03:44 PM

Oh....if you can't figure how to post the song here in ABC or in Alan's midi-text translation, e-mail it to me as an attachment, and I'll post it here. Thanks.
-Joe Offer-
Joe-Offer@msn.com


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Subject: RE: City Foursquare - tune?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Dec 97 - 05:29 PM

Joe...I emailed you...I have it on a record and could play it for you....I dont think I can learn tABC in time


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Subject: RE: City Foursquare - tune?
From: Bill D
Date: 15 Dec 97 - 05:34 PM

sorry...I mis-read that date...well...I hope you got it...*sigh*..


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Subject: RE: City Foursquare - tune?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Dec 97 - 02:46 PM

I'm still looking for this tune. We learned it by ear for the funeral. My friend's widow led us in singing it, and it was wonderful. I'd still like to see the music - anybody have it? The song may also be known as "No Night There." If you have the music but can't figure out how to post ABC or MIDI, mail me a copy and I'll post it. Thanks.
-Joe Offer-
(send me a private message, and I'll reply with my address)


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Subject: RE: City Foursquare - tune?
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Dec 97 - 05:39 PM

Joe...check your messages..


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Subject: ADD: City Four Square
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 01:55 PM

Well, now it's years later, and I've gotten to know Bill D very well. I can't recall what it is he sent me. The song came to mind today and I started looking for it. I found it on a Smithsonian Folkways album called Horton Barker, Traditional Singer - recorded and produced by Sandy Paton. The lyrics and stanza order are just a bit different.

CITY FOUR SQUARE

In the land of fadeless day
Lies a city four square;
It shall never fade away
For there is no night there.
    Chorus
    God will wipe away all tears,
    There's no death, no pain, no fears,
    And they count not time by years
    For there is no night there.


There they need no sunshine bright,
In that city fours quare;
For the Lamb is all the light
And there is no night there.

All the gates with pearls are laid
In that city four square;
All the streets of gold are made
And there is no night there.

There the gates will never close,
In that city four square;
There life's crystal river flows
And there is no night there.


from Horton Barker, Traditional Singer, Folkways 02362
Recorded in Beech Creek, North Carolina, by Sandy Paton


Notes: Typical of the many spirituals Horton sang while travelling with the bible lecturer throughout North Carolina and Tennessee, this one was learned from the singing of Dr. Orr, dean of Emery College.

Anybody know anything more about this song?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Origins: City Four Square
From: Bill D
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 07:30 PM

Not sure what I sent you, Joe...but I'll bet it included a reference to Dwayne Thorpe, who you 'probably' met at the Getaway. He recorded it on an LP many years ago, and his singing is special. (You remember he sang "Only Remembered" for Dick Rodgers at the evening concert.)

I now have 'almost' a system to copy records, I just need room to DO it! I'll look into it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: City Four Square
From: Art Thieme
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:04 PM

Joe,
I never noticed this thread until now. I was gonna tell you that Horton Barker's singing of this song is simply sublime---one of my all time favorites. Yes, it is on his Folkways LP that Sandy recorded!

Mr. Barker was at the very first University Of Chicago Folk Festival on February 3, 4, and 5, 1961. EVERYONE who heard him then was truly as mesmerized as I. An elderly blind man in a suit up there on stage in venerable Mandel Hall on the U. of C. campus---across the street from Amos Alonzo Stagg Field under which Enrico Fermi first sustained a nuclear reaction. Horton Barker was from Chilhowie, Virginia----a town I went through on a Greyhound bus in 1964. I spontaneously made the driver stop there and let me off so I could try to find him.----Later on that same bus trip I went to the Opry at the old Ryman Auditorium and saw Hank Snow--one of my vocal heroes. Back Stage he told me he was going to the Illinois State Fair next; so I did too--where I saw him again.

Yep, these are fine memories of good musical times, and, Joe, all because you started this thread to find City Four Square all those years ago.

Thanks!

Art


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Subject: RE: Origins: City Four Square
From: Art Thieme
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:17 PM

...and tonight it is February 3rd, 2009...

...forty-eight years exactly since I heard Horton Barker sing.

And Sandy Paton was on that night too! Who ever figured I'd wind up getting to know Sandy and Caroline and then make three albums for their grand Folk Legacy label. I've always felt it was the perfect place for me to wind up! I do wish I'd sold a few more for you.

Thanks, Sandy, for taking me along on the ride!

Art


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Subject: RE: Origins: City Four Square
From: Nancy King
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:51 PM

This is indeed a marvelous song. I learned it from Dwayne Thorpe, who says he learned it from his grandmother. Dwayne did record it, but I don't know if he has any further background info on it. Mebbe I'll email him and see if I can get him to chime in here...


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Subject: Lyr. Add: No Night There
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Feb 09 - 11:55 PM

NO NIGHT THERE
John R. Clements, 1899; Music Hart P. Danks

1
In the land of fadeless day,
Lies "the city foursquare,"
It shall never pass away,
And there is "no night there."

Refrain:
God shall "wipe away all tears,"
There's no death, no pain, nor fears;
And they count not time by years,
For there is "no night there."

2
All the gates of pearl are made,
In "the city foursquare,"
All the streets with gold are laid,
And there is "no night there."
3
All the gates shall never close*
To "the city foursquare,"
There life's crystal river flows,
And there is "no night there."
4
There they need no sunshine bright,
In "that city foursquare,"
For the Lamb is all the light,
And there is "no night there."

Midi and score at nethymnal:
No Night There

    *The Foursquare Hymnal has "And the gates shall never close" as the first line of the third verse. Otherwise, the transcription from Q is identical to the lyrics in the hymnal.
    -Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Origins: City Four Square
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 12:00 AM

Horton Barker sang the gospel hymn almost as written, but interchanged 'made' and 'laid' in verse two, and changed the title.


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Subject: RE: Origins: City Four Square
From: Ron Davies
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 12:03 AM

For me, Dwayne Thorpe has set the standard on this.   Hope he's coming back to the Getaway and more people can hear him do it.


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Subject: RE: Origins: City Four Square
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 12:18 PM

I believe that Dwayne Thorpe said he learned it from his grandmother, and had never heard it anywhere else.


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Subject: RE: Origins: City Four Square
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Feb 09 - 04:24 PM

John Ralston Clements, the composer, was born in Newry, Ireland, in 1868. In 1870, his family came to New York. In 1886 he heard the evangelist Dwight L. Moody. During his lifetime, he wrote some 5000 hymns. He died in 1946.
"No Night There" (City foursquare) was printed in several hymnals, perhaps most recently in Amos R. Wells, 1945, "A Treasure of Hymns."
Some 70 gospel composers, including Danks, have set many of his hymns to music.
Glimpses of Christian History

Four of his hymns are reproduced in Cyber Hymnal, including "No Night There" (linked above).


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Subject: RE: Origins: City Four Square
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Jan 11 - 10:27 PM

Thank you for sharing this information about "City Four Square". I remembered my dad singing it as a kid but we didn't have the words.When reading some old family obituaries I found that it was sung at some of the funerals. It was sung in our church at a funeral in 1932 in Nova Scotia.


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