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Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink

Catrin 09 Jun 01 - 02:32 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jun 01 - 04:08 PM
Dave the Gnome 09 Jun 01 - 04:14 PM
Snuffy 09 Jun 01 - 05:30 PM
Malcolm Douglas 09 Jun 01 - 05:32 PM
Lanfranc 09 Jun 01 - 06:23 PM
Catrin 10 Jun 01 - 05:47 AM
okthen 10 Jun 01 - 06:09 AM
bobby's girl 10 Jun 01 - 01:45 PM
The Walrus 10 Jun 01 - 01:49 PM
GUEST,Raggytash 10 Jun 01 - 03:54 PM
GUEST,JohnB 11 Jun 01 - 12:36 PM
Catrin 12 Jun 01 - 01:26 PM
GUEST,Roger the skiffler 13 Jun 01 - 11:47 AM
The Walrus 13 Jun 01 - 05:43 PM
GUEST 05 Apr 11 - 11:03 AM
Dave Hanson 05 Apr 11 - 11:19 AM
peregrina 05 Apr 11 - 12:08 PM
GUEST 05 Apr 11 - 12:34 PM
Darowyn 05 Apr 11 - 12:42 PM
GUEST,Eliza 06 Apr 11 - 08:25 AM
MGM·Lion 06 Apr 11 - 09:13 AM
GUEST 22 Jul 11 - 11:15 AM
r.padgett 22 Jul 11 - 11:38 AM
Charley Noble 22 Jul 11 - 01:40 PM
GUEST,Don Wise 23 Jul 11 - 10:05 AM
MGM·Lion 23 Jul 11 - 10:23 AM
MGM·Lion 24 Jul 11 - 01:25 AM
threelegsoman 24 Jul 11 - 07:15 AM
GUEST,mo 25 Aug 11 - 06:02 PM
GUEST,Bill S from Adelaide 26 Aug 11 - 12:02 AM
GUEST,mo 26 Sep 11 - 07:21 PM
GUEST,Folkiedave 27 Sep 11 - 03:24 AM
GUEST,Steve Ion 19 Apr 12 - 08:48 PM
GUEST,liz horrocks 23 Jun 13 - 02:39 PM
Jim Dixon 24 Jun 13 - 10:02 AM
GUEST,Bill Beevers 26 Aug 13 - 09:21 AM
Rumncoke 26 Aug 13 - 10:04 AM
r.padgett 27 Aug 13 - 03:29 AM
Musicboy 21 Mar 14 - 08:02 PM
Musicboy 21 Mar 14 - 08:05 PM
GUEST 22 Mar 14 - 07:40 PM
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Subject: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tinkers?
From: Catrin
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 02:32 PM

I am looking for the words to a song for a friend. We think it might be by the Oldham Tinkers, but not too sure... The lyrics we have so far are...

    We're reet down in't coal 'ole
    Where muck slaps up winders
    We've used al' the coal up -
    We're doon to the cinders
    When the bum bailiff calls
    He won't know where to find us,
    'Cos we're reet down in't coal 'ole
    Where t'muck slaps up winders.

We were also wondering if anyone has any idea where the phrase 'the bum bailif' comes from...

Any thoughts anyone??

Thanks,

Catrin


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 04:08 PM

I think 'bum bailif' is just a derogatory term, Catrin. As in the bailif is a bum. Bum being the English 'bottom' iteration rather than the American Hobo/Bum, But I have been wrong before...;-)

The rest of the song as in the 'tinkers version just goes on with lots of other kids songs. Memory serving correct the next it is -

Cups and saucers, plates and dishes
Little black lads in calico britches
Where's tha bin lad
A'sellin' papers
Who a'for
Me uncle Willie
What's he gan thee?
A skinny owd ha'p'ny
Teet owd bugger, he owt to dee

And then

On the croft, on the croft, where we play pitch and toss
And a copper come to chase us away
So I 'it 'im on the 'ead, wi' a bloody great lump o'lead
And the slimey little bgger ran away.

Then (I think) the 'Mary was a weeping' song. I think Ged has the album in the folk club 'research archieves' (The whole of 12 LP's!!!) Give us a call if you want and I will try to look it up.

Cheers

Dave


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 04:14 PM

Nope - just remembered as I hit post, before 'Mary was a weeping'

Don't touch my silk dress, me mother can tell
Me boots are guinea gold and yours are black lead
Me bonnet is blue, me heart it is true
And I dare not be seen with such rubbish as you

See you soon

D


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: Snuffy
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 05:30 PM

It's called 'Coal Hole Medley' as done by the Tinkers, and is several different songs/chants strung together. The bit you quoted is the only part to that tune.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 05:32 PM

Bum Bailiff: (Shak[speare], bum baylie), a bailiff who comes behind to make arrests: a sheriff's officer.

Chambers 20th Century Dictionary


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: Lanfranc
Date: 09 Jun 01 - 06:23 PM

I have always heard and sung it as:

We're reet down in t' coyl 'oyl
Where muck slarts on t' winders
We've used up all t' good coyl
And we're reet doon to t' cinders
When t' bum bailiff calls
He won't know where to find us,
'Cos we're reet down in t' coyl 'oyl
Where t'muck slarts on t'winders"

As a kid in Bradford, Yorkshire, in the early 50's, that was all we sang, I know of no other verse or chorus.

Alan


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: Catrin
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 05:47 AM

Well thank you everyone!

As usual - mudcat has come up trumps!

I will print this thread out and take to the pub on Friday for my friend to see. I love showing off how wonderful mudcat is as a resource.

Wonderul stuff!

Cheers (clink!)

Catrin


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: okthen
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 06:09 AM

This is part of a two part song,the second part starts

"We were right down in the basement

where the dust sticks to the casement"

this being sung in a "posh accent" Ithink Bill Sables has the complete text.

The Lancashire version goes,

Doest thee not know me I'm me Ma's little lass

Straight home from factory,

I've got muck on me hands

I've got muck on me brass

doest thee not know me I'm me Ma's little lass

can't get the phonetics right, however the "posh" version continues

Do you not know me I'm Mama's little girl

Straight home from boarding school

I've got snowey white hands

And snowey white dress

Do you not know me, I'm Mama's little girl

Iasked about this a couple of years ago could be in the records somewhere

cheers

bill


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: bobby's girl
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 01:45 PM

The version I recall is the same as Lanfranc's, but then as I also spent my early childhood in Yorkshire in the 50's I suppose thats not too surprising!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: The Walrus
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 01:49 PM

The version I've heard is a blend of Catrin and okthen's

"We're reet down in't coal 'ole
"Wi' mud spats on th'winders
"We've used al' us coal up
"Now we're burnin' t'cinders
"If bum bailiff comes callin'
"He'll never find us,
"'Cos we're reet down in't coal 'ole
"Wi' mud spats on th'winders.
"
("posh" voice): "I beg your pardon?"

(also in "posh" voice)
"We are all in the basement
"Where the mud is spattered on the casement
"We've finshed all the anthrecite
"Now we're burning the residue
"If the Landlords representative calls
"He'll never detect us "Because we are all hiding in the basement
"Where the mud is spattered on the casement

("accent")"You what?"

"We're reet down in't coal 'ole
"Wi' mud spats on th'winders
etc.

It's amazing the kind of rubbish you pick up as a kid.

Regards

Walrus

This can go on ad nausium.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST,Raggytash
Date: 10 Jun 01 - 03:54 PM

After the bit about don't touch my silk dress etc the Tinkers used to finish it with Ee by gum in't it fun shootin' pea's up a nanny goats bum then Beavers bulldog sittin' on a wall wellin' horsemuck penny a ball


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST,JohnB
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 12:36 PM

The second half version I know goes: "We are way down in the basement. Where dirt accumulates upon the casement. We have used up all our anthracite. And are now down to the residue. If the landlords' representative happens to pass by. He will not know where to find us. Because, We are way down in the basement. Where dirt accumulates upon the casement." Just a bit different than tother un. JohnB


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: Catrin
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 01:26 PM

OOOOOOH!

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!

Don't know what else to say fellow catters,

Catrin


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 11:47 AM

When I were a little lad... (RUN for the hills now, before he gets going...)we had a coal cellar with a trap in the pavement and I remember the coal being delivered (horse & cart). You had to watch and count the bags because it was alleged the coal man would try to cheat you by banging an empty sack on the chute if you only counted by ear!
When the cellar was "empty" we did indeed sweep up the dust etc (we called it "slack" in Birmingham) which was used to bank up the fire at night. When I was in S.Wales my landlady used to call it "small coal".
RtS (OK come out now, the old fart's stopped rambling)


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: The Walrus
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 05:43 PM

Roger,

I can still remember the smell in the street after the deliveries (coal dust and horse).....

Nostalgicaly (if mis-spelt)

Walrus


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 11:03 AM

We're all down in the basement
Where the dirt accumulates on the casement
We've used up all the anthracite
And we're now down to the residue
If the landlord's representative calls
We're quite complacent
That we won't find our whereabouts
Down in the basement.

A second verse to contrast with the ones already quoted.
Heard mid-60's at Manchester University.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 11:19 AM

Ya can't put yer muck in our dustbin,
Our dustbin, our dustbin,
Ya can't put yer muck in our dustbin,
Our dustbins full.      

or

You cannot put your refuse in our receptacle,
Our receptacle, our receptacle,
You cannot put your refuse in our recptavcle,
Our receptacle has reached it's maximum capacity.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: peregrina
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 12:08 PM

Some elements from the Barnsley Anthem, words, music notes and sound at the Yorkshire Garland:
here


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 12:34 PM

"Cellar 'oil" is a frequent replacement for "coal 'ole" in West Riding versions. "Hole" pronounced "'Oil" with 'oi' for 'oh'is common pronunciation in the West Riding, which may be why the phrase "Cellar 'oil" scans better than "Coil 'oil"
"Slart", "Slaht" or "Slat" is common to many northern dialects, and always refers to various aspects of throwing.
" Slat a brick at 'im" , "Her just slat plate down on table and walked off"
Could be heard in Staffordshire and Cheshire.
In Yorkshire and Lancashire, the verb seems to be reflexive, so "Muck slarts on t'winders" slarts = throws itself!
"Find us" is pronounced as a true rhyme with "winders" of course.
Cheers
Dave


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: Darowyn
Date: 05 Apr 11 - 12:42 PM

Sorry, that was me.
Cheers
Dave


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 08:25 AM

Roger and Walrus, I too remember vividly the deliveries of the coalman with his horse and cart. My mother also urged me to watch as the sacks went in, and count them. The smell of coal dust, and the leather protective headgear (a bit like the Foreign Legion's) that the man wore, right over his shoulders. His face was black and fierce, I was a bit afraid of him. I used to give a lump of sugar to his horse. Memories...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 06 Apr 11 - 09:13 AM

···the Tinkers used to finish it with Ee by gum in't it fun shootin' pea's up a nanny goats bum··· Raggytash 10 jun 01
~~~
reminds me of the story (I think it is in Opies' "Lore & Language of Schoolchildren") of visiting band playing Men Of Harlech to Welsh schoolchildren astonished by their all instantly joining in with the only words known to them for that fine march---

"I'm the man that came from Scotland
Shooting peas up a nanny-goat's bottom"

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 11:15 AM

continues:
I'm the man who came from Scotland shooting peas away.
My dad sag this to me.
Not sure of origins possibly children school yard exchsnge.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: r.padgett
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 11:38 AM

If anyone has the true provenance of this song we [Yorkshire garland] would like to know!!

Dave Burland and Robin Garside sing this I believe and can also be found on yorkshirefolksong.net

The song was widespread in Barnsley and was followed by; "You can't put yer muck in our dustbins, our dustbins, our dustbins (R)
'Ar dustbins full! Usually on charabanc trips from the local Working men's club trip to Cleethorpes or other seaside place, from industrial northern towns

Ray


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE BARNSLEY ANTHEM
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jul 11 - 01:40 PM

Here's my full copy of "The Barnsley Anthem" from the unpublished Housing Songbook:

The housing conditions experienced by most of the working class tenants in the new industrial cities were severe, especially so for those who sublet space in attics and cellars. In Manchester, England, it was reported in 1833 that some twelve percent of the workers, 21,000, were living in cellars:

Often more than one family lived in a single damp cellar, in whose pestilent atmosphere twelve to sixteen persons were crowded together. To these and other sources of disease must be added that pigs were kept, and disgusting things of the most revolting kind were found.

In this biting song, which is still current in the Barnsley and Lancashire areas, the tenants sing of what difficulties the rent collectors and court officers will have finding their lodgings, let alone collecting the rent.

Anonymous – Circa 1850's
In A Touch on the Times

The Barnsley Anthem

We're all dahn in't cellar 'oil
Wheer t' muck slaghts on t' winders;
We've used all t' coil up
An' we're reight dahn to t' cinders;
If bum bailiffs come
They nivver will find us;
'Cos we're all dahn in t' cellar 'oil
Wheer muck slaght on t' winders.

We're all dahn in t' cellar 'oil
Wheer t' muck slaghts on t' winders;
Dooer 'oil's wide oppen as it's oft bin afooer;
Fire 'oil it's nearly reight chock full o' cinders,
An' t' waaf she's art callin' wi' t' neerbur next door,
'Cos we're all dahn in t' cellar 'oil
Wheer t' muck slaghts on t' winders.

We're all dahn t' cellar 'oil
Wheer t' muck slaghts on t' winders;
T' dooer 'oil's blocked up wi' ashes and cinders;
When t' chap comes for t' rent
Will 'e be able to find us?
Ma comes wi' t' rollin' pin,
Pa wi' t' belinders,
When we're all dahn in t' cellar 'oil
Wheer muck slaghts on t' winders.

Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 10:05 AM

"You can't put your muck in our dustbin
Our dustbin, our dustbin
You can't put your muck in our dustbin
Our dustbin's full
There's round 'uns and square 'uns
And square 'uns and round 'uns
But you can't put your muck in our dustbin
Our dustbin's full"

Makes a great round.

I remember 'translating' it into german for an 'everyone mucks in' festival.........went something like this:-

"Schmeiss net eure Dreck in uns're Tonne
Uns're Tonne, uns're Tonne
Schmeiss net eure Dreck in uns're Tonne
Uns're Tonne ist voll!
Es gibt rund und viereckig
Viereckig und rund
Schmeiss net eure Dreck in uns're Tonne
Uns're Tonne ist voll!"

'net/nit' is a dialect/colloquial form of 'nicht'


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 10:23 AM

Don's song, tho, would appear to go, not to the tune of 'Down Here In Cellar', but that of 'Lieber Augustin'/'More We Are Together'?

~M~


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 01:25 AM

Re: Tune of "Down here in t' cellar-'ole'"

~~ to be precise, I have nearly always heard it sung (which I first did from a friend from Manchester in early 1950s) to the tune of 'Oranges & Lemons'.

Anyone else know/use any other tune for it?

~M~


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: threelegsoman
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 07:15 AM

I did not know this as a song, but have a video of it as a poem:

Da'n In't coil hoil


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST,mo
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 06:02 PM

when i was a little girl and my dad worked at pit our coal was delivered by the ton and droped in a big heap, when dad got home after his shift he would then sovel in t'coil oil before going to the alotment to feed the pigs and hens, he never complained but looking back now what a hard life


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST,Bill S from Adelaide
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 12:02 AM

That was known as "Concessionary coal" in our village, miners' coal came loose and they had to shovel it in and keep a fire going to use it up even in summer.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST,mo
Date: 26 Sep 11 - 07:21 PM

i remember the "concessionary coal" being swaped with the the local farmer for a load of farmyard manure duly delivered and droped steaming by the front gate to be spread on the veg garden, truly organic!!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST,Folkiedave
Date: 27 Sep 11 - 03:24 AM

There was another verse I remember singing.

We are down in the coal store
Where the dirt accumulates on the windows,
We have used all our anthracite up
And we are left with the residue
If the landlord's representative arrives
He'll fail to discover us
Since we are way down in the coal hole
where the dirt accumulates on the windows.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST,Steve Ion
Date: 19 Apr 12 - 08:48 PM

If anyone is interested, I am willing to sing the tinkers version and add it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST,liz horrocks
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 02:39 PM

I know this as a Guiding song, and have been trying to remember the words. Thank you! The posh version was known as the Commisioners version! Incidentally, I'nm from S Wales, and of coures it's small coal!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 10:02 AM

I was under the impression that British houses didn't have basements. Was I wrong? Is it different in the north than in the south?

I'm pretty sure that the houses of my British relatives don't have basements--but then I have no idea where the occupants used to put their coal back when they used coal for heat.

In the US, it varies a lot regionally. Where I live, in Minnesota, nearly all houses have basements. In the south, like Texas for example, almost no houses have basements. That's one reason tornadoes are so dangerous there; there's no place to hide. We northerners always go to our basements during tornado warnings (which aren't that frequent anyway).

It was explained to me like this: When you build a house, you've got to dig below the frost line (that is, the deepest level to which the ground ever freezes) to lay the foundation, otherwise it will be unstable. In the north, this is so deep that you might as well excavate all the dirt between the walls and create a basement. In the south, where the ground never freezes, you can pour a concrete slab directly on the surface without excavating at all, so that's the way it's usually done.

I have seen houses with partial basements, that is, a basement under part of the house, and a crawl space under the rest, but this is unusual.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST,Bill Beevers
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 09:21 AM

I'm interested to know more about "Beavers Bulldogs"and where it comes from as my grandmother used to breed bulldogs and her surname was Beevers,that's over 70 years ago now but I was wondering if there was any connection.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: Rumncoke
Date: 26 Aug 13 - 10:04 AM

I saw this in one of the Efdss magazines and asked about it on a visit to my home town of Barnsley - but despite my family being born and bred in the town no one had heard of it.

I - being unable to read dots - never knew that the tune was much like 'oh my little Augustine' until I heard it sung for the only time.

I was a member of the society for 40 years, so I have a fair few magazines - and I have lost a few too, so I can't lay my hands on it at the moment.

The reason to have a fire in the summer time was not to burn the coal, it was because the back boiler of the fireplace was the only source of hot water other than the kettle, so if there was washing to do or people wanted baths, the fire had to be lit to heat the water.

Houses which had a coal cellar used to have a metal covered hole in the pavement in front of the house which connected to a chute which deposited the coal into the bunker or stall in the cellar. The coal merchant had a tool which undid the lid and lifted it out so he could get access, then lock it down afterwards.

The song, however, seems to refer to the lower living space in a house, usually the cheapest part to rent.

The ground in front of houses was usually built up with the soil left from making the foundations level. The front door would be on the level above the cellar level, with steps going up to it, and there could be a side way in to steps down to the lower level which - when the house had servants, might be used by the senior staff. Lesser mortals and deliveries would be made at the back of the house, where the back door would be on the lower level and approached from a back alley.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: r.padgett
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 03:29 AM

Terrace property in Barnsley has/had a cellar which was around 6/7ft high and as stated by others above provided a firm foundation for the house built upon it!

Our cellar had a separate stone sort of table (acted as a "fridge" and a number of "rooms" with stone steps down to it and one of the "rooms" was the coal cellar, or coal 'oil (the basement) the whole area was damp

Yes miners received as part of pay free coal which was "loose" coal and often large pieces or "cobbs" the coalcame whilst the father was at work by and large and either the kids with help from the mother and neighbours would shovel the coal down the opened grate (metal and round often) and the coal would then need to be pulled down inside the cellar to make room to get it all in!

The main source of heating was the front room coal fire which would have to be lit using sticks (chopped wood) and pages of the Barnsley chronicle and topped with coal slack ~ getting it to tek owld was a work of art and H & S would cringe at some methods employed!! including use of shovel and paper sheets to create a draught!! Petrol and parafin not recommended

Coal hole = cellar 'oil, = coil oil

Basement not a word we would know in Barnsley

So the song can be found at www.yorshirefolksong.net the tune is that of a German folk song and was/is still current in older peoples memory!

Provenance is still very illusive, Yorkshire /Lancashire and it seems many places in UK know it! the Lancashire version may well be traceable to Harry Boardman as he lived in Oldham some 3 miles from Greenfield and Saddleworth on the edge of Yorkshire/Lancs.

and the song itself sung on charabanc trips from Working mens' clubs by kids mothers and all going on their holidays to Blackpool or Cleethorpes alternated with "Barnsley Anthem( [we're all dahn int cellar/coil oil and "You can't put your muck in our dustbin" and We're off in a motor car
Ray


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: Musicboy
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 08:02 PM

t.padgett, From the Winder's of Wyresdale, edited by Andy Hornby,

"the tune was composed by Marx Augustin, an itinerant bagpiper from Vienna {i.e., Austria not Germany}, d. 1705. Popularised by singe Elisa Vetris,in 1826"

If you read the lyrics that he gives it appears to be a song written by an expat Austrian, currently resident in England. I wonder if they are the original?

I also wonder if MA pinched the tune from an earlier song.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: Musicboy
Date: 21 Mar 14 - 08:05 PM

Oh, and if you haven't got Mr Hornby's excellent book, get it.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: reet down in t'coal hole- old'm tink
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Mar 14 - 07:40 PM

I'm a little dutch girl...
The holly bears a berry...

All the same tune


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