Metasongs, songs within songs

Subject: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 11:11 AM

I know a country tune about what is going on "while the (pick an instrument) played the BONAPARTE'S RETREAT" but I don't know Bonaparte's Retreat. In The Green Fields of France/NO MAN'S LAND, they ask Did the band play The Last Post in chorus? Did the pipes play THE FLOWERS OF THE FOREST? but I've never heard either The Last Post (which is NOT Taps, right, just serves the same purpose?) nor Flowers of the Forest. What are the others that you know? And do you know the embedded song as well as the song doing the embedding? Just for fun, but since it's musical I didn't think the BS thread title appropriate, I know folks who filter those out to avoid the nonmusical threads...

[Many song titles in this thread have been converted to links by a Mudelf.]

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 11:27 AM

"AND THE BAND PLAYED WALTZING MATILDA" is often referred to on the Mudcat. Rick's "IF JESUS WAS A PICKER" mentions several bluegrass songs eg "Billy in the Low Ground".
RtS (not knowledgeable, but quick!)

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Gervase
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 11:41 AM

FAIRYTALE OF NEW YORK has ...and the boys of the NYPD choir were singing GALWAY BAY, while THE GALWAY SHAWL has a number of names of tunes in the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Lyndi-loo
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 11:46 AM

Max Boyce's song "HYMNS AND ARIAS" mentions "Land of my fathers" and "AR HYD Y NOS (all through the night)"

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 11:58 AM

The Gaither Vocal Band does a gospel number called "I HEARD IT FIRST ON THE RADIO" that is gorgeous, and it pays homage to many of the great hymns of all time in musical phrases that are close, but not identical, to the actual melodies... there is also one I think is called "A SONG THE ANGELS CANNOT SING" where Amazing Grace is referenced, the idea being that angels can't say they were ever lost, blind, etc. There's another one I can't quite recall too, about a camp meeting, where various well-known camp meeting songs appear briefly from verse to verse.

What I love about these is that they are not medleys at all; they are completely integrated into the song in which they appear.

~Susan

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Midchuck
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 11:59 AM

David Mallett's THE BALLAD OF SAINT ANNE'S REEL.

And my favorite Guy Clark line, from DUBLIN BLUES:

I have seen the David,
Seen the Mona Lisa, too.
I have heard Doc Watson
Play "COLUMBUS STOCKADE BLUES.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: JudeL
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 12:01 PM

Derrick Gifford has one which refers to various people singing things like THE LILY OF LAGUNA. I can't remember the title just the chorus:

I still can hear them singing
those melodies go ringing
they float out on the balmy evening air,
and I'd give a million pounds
to be free without bounds
yes I'd be singing with em
I'd be there

jude

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Grab
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 12:15 PM

"DEVIL WENT DOWN TO GEORGIA" mentions several tunes.

Dire Straits' "WALK OF LIFE" has a few (BE-BOP-A-LULA, WHAT'D I SAY).

Graham.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 06:17 PM

Bill Caddick's 'THE WRITING OF TIPPERARY' (the words of which don't seem to be in the DT nor in the Forum).

Subject: Lyr Add: THREE VERSES (Confederate Railroad)
From: Matt_R
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 06:34 PM

BTW I might mention that Seamus Kennedy does a bang-up rendition of The Writing of Tipperary.

THREE VERSES
As recorded by Confederate Railroad on "Notorious" (1995)

He had a Martin; I had a Fender; we were thirteen years of age.
Out back in the tool shed, we were searching for a sound.
Every day all through that summer, we'd rock 'n' roll 'n' rage.
All the neighbors kept complaining, but it never slowed us down.

We sang three verses of "Dixie," "Can't Get No Satisfaction,"
"Rainy Day Women Numbers 12 and 35,"
"Try a Little Tenderness," "A Whiter Shade of Pale,"
"Turn! Turn! Turn!," "For What It's Worth," and "Long Black Veil."

We moved out to California, shooting for the stars—
The biggest thing since Elvis; nothing could go wrong,
But they took us for all our money and everything else we owned,
So we got ourselves some whiskey and we drank it all night long.

We sang three verses of "Dixie," "Can't Get No Satisfaction,"
"Rainy Day Women," and "A Bad Moon on the Rise,"
"Try a Little Tenderness," "A Whiter Shade of Pale,"
"Turn! Turn! Turn!," "For What It's Worth," and "Long Black Veil."

Oh, he never quite got over it; we went our separate ways.
He traded in his music for cocaine nights and reckless days.
Still, I knew he always wanted to make one last journey home.

Near a small white church in the valley beneath a wooden bridge,
Patiently we waited on that cold Alabama ground,
And the preacher started preaching about our lives and about our times.
The sun was slowly sinking as we laid his body down.

And we sang three verses of "Dixie," "What a Friend We Have in Jesus,"
"Walk in the Garden," and "The Old Rugged Cross,"
"Try a Little Tenderness," "A Whiter Shade of Pale,"
"Turn! Turn! Turn!," "For What It's Worth," and "Long Black Veil."
We sang "Long Black Veil." (2x)

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 06:42 PM

I like that one, M; and I'd forgotten about And The Band Played Waltzing Matilda. More?

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Matt_R
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 06:55 PM

Uh oh! Mrrz, I sang that one on my second tape. Don't tell me I forgot to send you one!!

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Wendy_
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 07:02 PM

How about ALEXANDER'S RAGTIME BAND?

"and if you want to hear that Swanee River played in ragtime..."

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within song
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 07:12 PM

Of course there's ENGINE 143 and TITANIC both lead into NEARER, MY GOD, TO THEE.

And in a different context, three songs with national anthems or near national anthems: "ON THE ONE ROAD" leads into "A SOLDIER'S SONG"; "EDDYSTONE LIGHT" incorporates RULE BRITANNIA, and there's Dwight Yoakum's "I SANG DIXIE."

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Justa Picker
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 07:14 PM

ROLLING IN MY SWEET BABY'S ARMS and MY WALKING SHOES (Don't Fit Me Anymore).

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Joe_F
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 07:20 PM

"TURKEY IN THE STRAW" mentions a tune called "Turkey in the Straw" -- eating its own tail. "LOVE'S OLD SWEET SONG" also, arguably, mentions itself.

THE WHIFFENPOOF SONG mentions "SHALL I WASTING IN DESPAIR" and "MAVOURNEEN".

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 07:32 PM

I remember, as a kid, hearing (I think) Patti Page on the radio, singing, "I was dancin' with my darlin' to the TENNESSEE WALTZ . . . " and thinking, "Hey, wait a minute. This song IS the Tennessee Waltz. How could she have been dancing to it when it hadn't even been written yet?" It didn't occur to me that it might be just a songwriter's conceit. I figured there had to be a logical explanation. There must have been an earlier version of the song that had no words, or different words. Anyway, the paradox bothered me.

Later I learned that there are lots of songs like this. Douglas Hofstadter would call this "self-reference." I recommend his book, "Gödel, Escher, Bach: an Eternal Golden Braid." Is it possible you've already read it, Mrzzy?

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 07:41 PM

Well they were out there on the sea,
And the band played, "Nearer, My God to Thee"--
Fare thee well, Titanic, fare thee well....

There's another one about a goose and a gander singing "Rally Round the Flag," which just might be a Southron take on a Union song [BATTLE CRY OF FREEDOM], if'n yawl catch mah drift.

I like the conceit about a song eating its own tail. I think "ALABAMA JUBILEE" does that too, depending on the version of words you use.

What was the name of the mellow rock song, "and the jukebox kept on playin' 'Sergeant Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band'..." [SUMMER RAIN by Johnny Rivers]

CC

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 08:03 PM

In a sense the whole of Sergeant Pepper is one big metasong.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Sarah T
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 11:35 PM

What about "THE PIPER OF DUNDEE"?

He play'd "The Welcome Ower the Main"
And "Ye's Be Fou and I'se be Fain"
And "Auld Stuart's Back Again"
    Wi' muckle mirth and glee
He'd play'd "The Kirk", he play'd "The Queer"
"The Mullen Dhu" and "Chevalier"
And "Lang Awa' But Welcome Here"
    Sae sweet, sae bonnielie.

It's in the DigiTrad.

-Sarah

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Justa Picker
Date: 11 Jun 01 - 11:37 PM

As is the flip side of Abbey Road, McGrath.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 12:08 AM

The Keeper of the Eddystone Light" incorporates Rule Brittannia - Not my version? I know about the equinoctial gales, but that wasn't the Eddystone Light, it was Rule, Brittania, Brittania rules the waves, and Britains never never never shall be Married to a mermaid at the bottom of the deep blue sea. Nobody knows that song! Wow!

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Keith A at work
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 03:09 AM

In THE BONNIE LASS OF FYVIE-O the pipes play The Lowlands of Fyvie, And the drums play something also (Braes of Dyce?)

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Keith A still working
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 04:44 AM

SHANNON & CHESAPEAKE has lots of refs. to the Revolutionaries' fondness for playing Yankee Doodle Dandy.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Grab
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 09:22 AM

Recursive songs - "Crocodile Rock". Plus many 60s dance songs (MONSTER MASH, etc, etc)

On a classical front, how's about the 1812 Overture? Bits of the Russian and French national anthems, plus Russian folk songs.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 09:25 AM

Matt - no , no tape, fork it over, sounds great! And yes, Godel Escher Bach is a great book, indeed. I especially liked the Crab Canon. (No explanations - read the book!) - but that's a good point about the Tennessee Waltz, I'd never noticed it referenced ITSELF. I can't think of any others like that...? A song that mentions itself, rather than another song? And I don't quite count songs about musicians that enumerate the repertoire, I'm thinking more of songs that mention other songs as they tell whatever story they are telling, more like The Band Played Waltzing Matilda and less like THE PIPER THAT PLAYED BEFORE MOSES...

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: LR Mole
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 10:37 AM

Mr. Chicken: (I was going to address you as "Mr. Charlie", but...) The song you want is "SUMMER RAIN" by Johnny Rivers

("All summer long we spent dancin in the sand
And the jukebox kept on playin 'Sargeant Pepper's Lonely Heart's Club Band')

written by James Hendricks (not Jimi, but one who was married to Mama Cass for a while). He also wrote the songs used in the TV series "Then Came Bronson", including "Goin' Down That Long Lonesome Highway". Not the famous Bronson, either. Hendricks wrote another hit for Rivers around that time, too, but I can't get it now.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 11:17 AM

Here's a self-reference in a folk song:

"The only tune that fiddle would play was 'Oh, the Wind and Rain' . . ."

There are 2 versions in DT that contain this self-reference: THE WIND AND RAIN (Two Sisters), and OH, THE WIND AND RAIN (The Two Sisters) -- and several other versions of "The Two Sisters" (Child #10) that don't.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Lyndi-loo
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 11:26 AM

THE OLD ORANGE FLUTE mentions the "Protestant Boys" and several other sectarian songs

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: UB Ed
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 11:37 AM

Here's the verse Gervase referenced from THE GALWAY SHAWL

I played "THE BLACKBIRD" and "The Stack of Barley",
"RODNEY'S GLORY" and "THE FOGGY DEW",
She sang each note like an Irish linnet
Whilst the tears stood in her eyes of blue.

That's a GREAT song.

Ed

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 11:41 AM

Byker Hill references dancing to the tune of Elsie Marley.
It also does that self-reference thing (ish maybe) in talking about the pipers playing "The Bonnie Lass of Byker Hill". Or is there such a tune?

Kris

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Jim Krause
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 12:16 PM

There's a song that Si Kahn sings that mentions several Thomas Moore songs, and a few that are Scottish, I think. The titles I remember are The Last Rose of Summer, and I think possibly Burns' Auld Lang Syne. Oh what is the title of that song?
Jim

Subject: Lyr Add: TITLES OF SONGS^^
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 12:44 PM

Found at http://www.stanford.edu/~boneill/allsongs/rand1.html

From Vance Randolph, Ozark Folksongs V. III p. 282: "Titles of Songs."
Sung by Mr. Will Guilliams, Farmington Ark, Oct 22, 1941. Mr. Guilliams learned the song near
Farmington in the early 90's


TITLES OF SONGS^^


Friends, now listen for a while.
I'll not detain you long.
I'll tell you of the titles of
Some very ancient songs.

Mickey O'Flannagan he had a Bull Pup,
Down Where the Pansies Blow.
Don't You Leave Your Mother, Tom,
For Mary Kelly's Beau.

Tie White Wings and Peek-a-boo
With a Knot of Blue and Gray.
I got The Letter That Never Came
On Saint Patrick's Day.

I knew she'd Call Me Back Again
From Over the Garden Wall.
She and I was A Warrior Bold
The Day I Played Baseball.

Lorene, Maureen, Sally Green,
Little Widow Dunn,
All Alone, back Home Sweet Home,
And Johnny Get Your Gun.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 01:03 PM

Barry O'Neill at Stanford University has an amazing collection called OLD SONGS MADE UP OF SONG TITLES. He says, "This became a fad in the 1860's." The song I posted above is from his collection. Do you suppose O'Neill is acquainted with Hofstadter? Wasn't Hofstadter at Stanford when he wrote "Gödel, Escher, Bach"?

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Matt_R
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 03:21 PM

The second verse of Hootie and The Blowfish's "Only Wanna Be With You" goes:

Put on a little Dylan, sitting on a fence
I say "That line is great". You ask me what he meant by
"They said I shot a man named Gray
Took his wife to Italy
She inherited a million bucks and when she died, it came to me
I can't help it if I'm lucky."
I only wanna be with you

Ain't Bobby so cool?
Only wanna be with you
Well I'm tangled up in blue
Only wanna be with you

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 04:39 PM

Yup, Summer Rain. And "Oh, the Wind and Rain," lovely macabre thing that it is. For that matter, "BILE THEM CABBAGE DOWN" qualifies, as "The onliest song I ever did sing was 'Bile Them Cabbage Down.'"

CC

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: JenEllen
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 04:54 PM

Nanci Griffith's LISTEN TO THE RADIO:

'There's a moon across the border
In the Louisiana sky
I smell the Pontchartrain, I hear SILVER WINGS
And then away Merle Haggard flies'

~J

Subject: Lyr Add: GOIN' BACK TO HARLAN (Anna McGarrigle)
From: SDShad
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 05:04 PM

Kate and Anna McGarrigle's "Going Back to Harlan" has quite a few:

GOIN' BACK TO HARLAN
As recorded by Kate and Anna McGarrigle on "Matapedia" (1996)

There were no cuckoos, no sycamores
We played about the forest floor
Underneath the silver maples,
The balsams and the sky

We popped the heads off dandelions
Assuming roles from nursery rhymes
Rested on a river bank
And grew up by and by
And grew up by and by

Chorus:
Frail my heart apart and play me a little "Shady Grove"
Ring the bells of Rhymney 'til they ring inside my head forever
Bounce the bow, rock the gallows for the Hangman's Reel
And wake the Devil from his dream

I'm goin' back to Harlan
I'm goin' back to Harlan
I'm goin' back to Harlan

And if you were Willy Moore
And I was Barbry Allen
Or fair Ellen, all sad at the cabin door
A-weepin' and a-pinin' for love
A-weepin' and a-pinin' for love

Chorus

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Snuffy
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 05:09 PM

Tom he was a piper's son
Learned to play when he was young
All the tunes that he could play
Were 'OVER THE HILLS AND FAR AWAY'

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 12 Jun 01 - 06:48 PM

Joan Baez sings a song called (I think) 'MICHAEL', which is full of ironical references to other folk and protest songs and the folk scene in general. I haven't got the words down as I taped it from the radio ages ago and the tape is in bad shape now. Does anyone remember this song and could help with the words?

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: vlmagee
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 08:30 AM

Gordon Lightfoot has a song on his Sundown album called CIRCLE OF STEEL. It is a very haunting song, about poverty and despair, set against the backdrop of the Christmas season. It includes this verse:

"DECK THE HALLS" was the song they played
In the flat next door where they shout all day.
She tips her gin bottle back till it's gone.
The child is strong.
A week, a day, they will take it away
For they know about all her bad habits.

In addition, the first three notes of "Deck The Halls" are the starting notes of each verse, but there is no other similarity.

He has at least one other song reference that I remember, but it isn't as striking. It's from a song called ROMANCE, on the album "Salute." The line is:

They say that people don't change Like "HOME ON THE RANGE", it's original

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Brian
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 09:22 AM

CYRIL SAID IT ALL BEFORE by Tom Lewis

Brian

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Grab
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 09:48 AM

Just heard another one today - [SWEET SOUL MUSIC by Arthur Conley. 1967] "Do you like good music" goes through a load of 60s soul music.

Graham.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mark Clark
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 10:11 AM

Mrrzy, The country song you remember (By Pee Wee King, I think) is called "BONEPARTE'S RETREAT." It set words to an old fiddle tune of the same name and refers to the fiddle tune (metasong) in the lyrics. Pee Wee changed the timing of the tune and added the snake dance part which many modern fiddlers have now adopted.

Other metasongs include "UNCLE PEN":

He played an old tune called Soldiers Joy
and another called The Boston Boy
but the greatest of all was Jenny Lynd,
to me that's where the fiddle begins

"THE HILLS OF ROANE COUNTY":

put one of my songs in your letter for me

and "THE LITTLE WHITE CHURCH":

they would sing the old song "Rock Of Ages"
Christ let me hide myself in thee.

Many other examples exist, I expect we'll collect a bunch of them right here.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 10:21 AM

All those one-song dance crazes you thought you'd forgotten (BONY MORONIE, MASHED POTATOES etc.) are mentioned in one of the Blues Brothers [originally The Contours] numbers. Is it DO YOU LOVE ME (NOW THAT I CAN DANCE)?

RtS (I can remember the Twist but I don't think the old back is up to it these days!)

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Tiger
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 10:45 AM

Tom Paxton's "DID YOU HEAR JOHN HURT?" is a nice one.

He weaves in "MY CREOLE BELLE", "Spanish Fandango" and "CANDY MAN BLUES" - doesn't just mention them.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 02:41 PM

Right on, Roger. And there were others before the fifties/sixties. Is the song with the line, "You'll find them all/Doing the Lambeth Walk" itself called "THE LAMBETH WALK"? I think so.

CC

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,John Leeder
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 03:43 PM

Paddy Tunney's "THE HURRICANE OF REELS" (recently recorded by Cathal McConnell) works a lot of reel titles into the lyrics.

The Kipper Family's "NORTHREPPS TWELFTH NIGHT SONG" (did I get the title right, without the tape at hand?) says "We've sung 'Greensleeves' and 'The Wild Rover'" as the typical songs for a tacky drunken festivity.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Barbara
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 04:16 PM

The Finest Kind sing a song written by group member Shelley Posen called Fa-Sol-La about discovering Shape Notes. In the middle of the song the lyrics say that his favorite Shape Note is "Showers of Blessings" and then it modulates up a fourth and goes into the "fuging" part of the song, and then back to Shelley's melody for one more verse.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: toadfrog
Date: 13 Jun 01 - 11:41 PM

This thread reminded me of a song which makes a very interesting use of an internal hymn; anyone interested may CLICK HERE.

And has anyone mentioned "I WANNA GO BACK TO DIXIE"? It contains parodies of at least 5 songs, in just 2 verses!

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: davidg
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:54 PM

From "END OF THE LINE" (Traveling Wilburys): "Maybe somewhere down the road when somebody plays Purple Haze."

Also, The Beatles' "GLASS ONION" mentions "O-Bla-Dee Oh-Bla-Da"(however you spell that) and makes reference to "I am the Walrus."

Which set me to thinking: is there another example of a song that refers to another song that was written by the same person? (You'd never know I majored in English) Anyhow, I can think of one other:

"SARA" by Bob Dylan:

Stayin' up for days
In the Chelsea Hotel
Writin' "Sad-Eyed Lady
Of the Lowlands" for you.

Any others?

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 03:54 PM

Ooh, incestuous metasongs, hmmm. I think Simon refers to an old Simon and Garfunkel tune somewhere, but it's not coming up. Will keep thinking.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Bert
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 11:37 PM

Back in the seventies there was a song called "Old Buck Jones Guitar" (or something like that) which mentioned "Wildwood Flower", "Old joe Clark" and "Cindy Lou".
AND in my own "Plastic Flower Seeds" I mention "Barbry Allen"

Bert.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 07:48 AM

Ron Kavana's "MIDNIGHT ON THE WATER" is an interesting example of the genre.

"Play me a fiddle tune, sing me a song
Banish Misfortune, my time is not long
Midnight on the water, so steady and slow
The Lark in the morning, one more for the road
Midnight on the water, so steady and slow.
Let's have another drink so set 'em up Joe

I have wondered from time to time which of these phrases are fiddle tunes and which are not. I know that Midnight on the Water is. I know that Banish Misfortune is. I know that Lark in the Morning is.

But how about My Time is not Long? is that a tune, or just part of the song lyric. I assume there is NOT a fiddle tune called Let's Have another Drink, and I would be totally amazed if there was a tune called Set 'Em up Joe

Murray

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 08:04 AM

If Old Orange Flute is mentioned here so should its counterpart from the other side of the divide, mentioning lots of Irish rebel songs, namely THE FENIAN RECORD PLAYER.

Also, a song mentioning only titles from one single songwriter should be listed here: CYRIL SAID IT ALL BEFORE.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: John Hardly
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 08:07 AM

A borrowed and referenced guitar lick from the Beatle's "I Feel Fine" occurs in "DON'T CALL US (WE'LL CALL YOU)" by Sugarloaf

Said: Listen, kid, you paid for the call
You ain't bad but I've heard it all before
He said: it sounds a little bit like John, Paul, and George and Ringo; famous guitar riff

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: campfire
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 08:15 AM

In Bill Staines' "ROSEVILLE FAIR":

"I can hear them now, playing "Comin' through the Rye".

campfire

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 08:28 AM

Rory McLeod's song BACK TO DONEGAL makes reference to quite a number of both tunes and songs from Paddy on the Turnpike and Eileen Oige (sp?) to I Ain't Got No Home In This World Anymore and The Town I loved So Well. Unfortunately, I don't have the lyrics to hand at the moment and couldn't find them on the Internet.

Brian

Subject: Lyr Add: ONE FOR MY BABY^^
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 08:44 AM

Murray: Here are the complete (I think) lyrics to Ron Kavana's Midnight on the Water.

"Set 'em up, Joe" is a phrase from this song, which isn't in DT, but should be, because it's such a classic:

ONE FOR MY BABY (AND ONE MORE FOR THE ROAD)
(Words by Johnny Mercer, music by Harold Arlen, 1943.)

It's quarter to three,
There's no one in the place except you and me,
So, set 'em up, Joe,
I've got a little story you oughta know,
We're drinking, my friend,
To the end of a brief episode,
Make it one for my baby
And one more for the road.

I got the routine,
So drop another nickel in the machine,
I'm feelin' so bad,
I wish you'd make the music dreamy and sad,
Could tell you a lot,
But that's not in a gentleman's code,
Make it one for my baby
And one more for the road.

You'd never know it,
But, buddy, I'm a kind of poet
And I've got a lotta things to say.
And when I'm gloomy,
You simply gotta listen to me,
Until it's talked away.

Well, that's how it goes
And Joe, I know you're gettin' anxious to close,
So thanks for the cheer,
I hope you didn't mind my bending your ear,
This torch I've found,
Must be drowned or it soon might explode,
Make it one for my baby
And one more for the road.

[Created for the film, "The Sky's The Limit," 1943.]

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 10:24 AM

Long time since I learned "Midnight on the Water", but I have always sung "The lark in the morning", rather than "Stay up till the morning" as in Suzanne's lyric. I am prepared to be corrected however.

Murray

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Tanner
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 10:28 AM

When June Tabor did Eric Bogle's *No Man's Land*, they really played *The Flowers of the Forest* reel in a finale.

Of course, there is a Scottish pipe tune called *Bonaparte's Retreat*.

*Oh take me away boys, for me time is not long* - it's from a popular Irish song called *Fiddler's Green*. It's about place *...where the fishermen's go/ If they don't go to hell*. :-)

The old Irish rebel Band Wolfe Tones have put on their album titled *Spirit of the Nation* two related songs. An old woman, the main character of *Down by the Glenside* is singing the chorus of *Bold Fenian Men*, actually the next track.

I personally think it's a good thing (or should I say *a good tradition*?) that some new songs and some old ones have common points. Very attractive feature of traditional music, when nobody cares of that god damned copyrights.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 11:22 AM

Murray: Here's another transcription of Midnight on the Water that gives the line "Good luck in the morning"!

"The lark in the morning" sounds good to me.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: LR Mole
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 12:43 PM

Jackson Browne, in "HOLD OUT", sings, "How we laughed when we first knew love / singing lum-di-lum-di-lie...", a reference to "MICKEY'S MONKEY" by Smokey Robinson.

And "Do You Like Soul Music" is, I think, "Sweet Soul Music" by Arthur Connelly (which itself is a gloss on a song called "YEAH, MAN"). Begs for a folk version, a la "Old Time Religion".

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: davidg
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 01:09 PM

In Kate and Anna McGarrigle's "SONG FOR GABY" on the same record ("Matapedia") as the above-mentioned "Going Back to Harlan," Anna sings "Jane was in the choir-loft with Rufus at her side, they played and sang 'What'll I Do When You Are Far Away?'" This is the great Irving Berlin song that they later recorded on "The McGarrigle Hour."

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: The Walrus at work
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 01:36 PM

I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned "CHRISTMAS IN THE TRENCHES" with the various carols mentioned within.

GUEST Tanner, I'm not so sure that "Fiddler's Green" is Irish (although, doubtless I will be corrected in this).

Good luck

Walrus

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 01:50 PM

Fiddler's Green is English

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 01:54 PM

Now that this thread is back topside anyway--I just listened to "Wind and Rain" again this a.m. and realized the last verse makes it a metasong. But I don't have the strength to read through 66 posts to see if anybody mentioned that already.

CC

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,SharonA
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 06:12 PM

James Taylor's "That's Why I'm Here": "Playin' 'Fire and Rain' again and again and again..."

Tom Lehrer's "Christmas Carol" sings the first line each of 3 carols (Hark the Herald Angels Sing, God Rest Ye Merry Gentlemen, Angels We Have Heard on High).

And let's not forget all the rap songs that "borrow" the tunes of other artists (the recent one that uses [abuses] "Angel of the Morning" springs to mind).

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 07:40 PM

"RED NECKS, WHITE SOCKS, AND BLUE RIBBON BEER" mentions "THERE STANDS THE GLASS" (which, being bourgeois to the core, I have never heard).

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 11:16 PM

Chicken Charlie: Don't you have a "find" feature on your web browser?

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 29 Jun 01 - 07:22 PM

Jim--Yeah, but it's more fun talking to myself. All good schizophrenics do it. Some day I will remember that FIND is there; I hope I clean up my act before aliens from another thread tell me I don't "respect" my computer because I don't use it right. :)

CC

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: robomatic
Date: 29 Jun 01 - 07:59 PM

Warren Zevon: [PLAY IT ALL NIGHT LONG]

"Sweet Home Alabama Play that dead band song Turn the speakers up full blast Play it all night long"

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Wolfgang
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 03:41 AM

A prime example for this type of songs has been found and posted by pavane here: VILIKEN'S MEDLEY.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Grab
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 12:01 PM

Add another I've just learnt, a recent Tom Paxton one called "GETTING UP EARLY" - a line in the chorus goes "We'd sing 'Mr Tambourine Man' then".

Graham.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Alice in Montana
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 01:56 PM

The Piper of Dundee and the Galway Shawl, previously mentioned, were the first that came to my mind. I haven't been reading the Mudcat very much in the last few months, so I missed this thread when it started. Thanks for bringing it back up, Wolfgang (saw the link in pavane's thread).

Alice Flynn

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Alice
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 02:28 PM

Another song that lists many tunes is in Colm O Lochlainn's Irish Street Ballads, THE PIPER'S TUNES. It is sung to the same tune as COURTIN' IN THE KITCHEN.

There are eleven verses of THE PIPER'S TUNES in O Lochlainn's book. I'll check and see if it is already in the DT or archive before posting them.

Alice Flynn

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: pavane
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 06:48 PM

Another one in the Bodley Library is called 'New song of songs'.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Gareth
Date: 20 Jul 01 - 07:43 PM

Lindy Lou

Bit late, And I am sure that you have spotted same but consider "hymns and Aria's

" We sang "Cwm Rhondda" and "Delila" and they sounded just the same
Saturday was Sunday, Hymns came on a tray
Only half remembered, I wonder What H'll say"

Or again, take the "Trip to Twickenham" ( Well You did )

"So we give him that old bottle
That once held bitter Ale
He started singing "Hymns and Arias", "Land of my Fathers","Ar hud y nos(all through the night)"

For Non SWELCH Catters the rest of the Story is not fit for tender ears
It refers to the lack of Public Toilets at Twickenham, Head Quarters of the English Rugby Union, and how the lads releaved themselves into empty beer bottles
and passed them off as beer to wandering English fans.

To CAMRA members - it prooved the average English upper Class twit can't tell the difference between P*ss and Watneys.

Sorry, 5 pints of Brains S.A.and a shot of "Pussers" have removed my inhibitions.

Thank God it's Friday.

On a more serious note "Willie MacBrides Reply" (DT) takes a nice swipe at " The band Played Walsing Matilda", also by Eric Bogle.

In the spirit of the forum, a pint, if you drink near Cardiff (dialect Kairdif) Or a "Virtual Pint" if you don't live, or visit nearby, to the first Catter to identify the line(s)

Gareth

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mudlark
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 01:54 AM

Along the lines of Lambeth Walk is another "dance" song that names itself...Ballin' the Jack ("And that's what I call Ballin the Jack). And there's not only Tenn. Waltz, but The All New Tennessee Waltz (It's the all new Tenn. Waltz, literally waltzing on air...).

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Sourdough
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 11:26 AM

...and in The Yellow Rose of TEsas is:

You can talk about your "Clementine"
And sing of "Aura Lee"
But the Yellow Rose of Texas
Is the only one for me.

Sourdough

Subject: Lyr Add: THE PIPER'S TUNES
From: Alice
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 12:16 PM

THE PIPER'S TUNES
from Colm O Lochlainn's Irish Street Ballads

As I rov'd thro' the town to view the pretty lasses,
The old maids with a frown, peeped at me o'er their glasses,
To Cove we will go down, to view the lasses pretty,
And the sailor men also which sets forth all its beauty.

ch. Ritooral-oo-ral-ah, Ritooral-oo-ral-addy,
Ritooral-oo-ral-ah, Ritooral-oo-ral-addy.

There's Captain Burke of Grove, a very famous name, sirs,
He keeps the buck and doe, and hunts the sporting game,
sirs,
He winds the whip and spur, and makes the hunters rattle,
And when that home he comes, he'll surely crack a bottle.

John Blake for to promote, he plays some tunes so merry,
He gave some charming notes, to banish melancholy,
He'll then blow up the pipes, to play the tune "Brave Larry",
You'd laugh until you die to hear "Sweet Paddy Carey".

He'd play the Prussian Wars, the fall of the Boyne Water,
Jeannette and Jeannot and the march of Alexander,
The blooming White Cockade, the Old Brigade is coming,
O'Connell's in for Clare, and All the bells were ringing.

He played the Collen Bawn, the banks of Kitty's Cottage,
The affermoniou jig, called - My Mother's mess of pottage.
The Wexford Rakes in style, and Trip the world before him,
The Sailor's Hornpipe, and Garryowen and Glory.

He played Kitty from Athlone, with Moreen móra Glanna,
Noreen on the road, and the flashy Rakes of Mallow.
Aughrim's overthrow, and the fall of Carrig Castle,
Brave Sarsfield took command at many a famous battle.

He played the Chorus jig, the ancient Ladies' Fancy,
Jack and the Jug of Punch, and the Bonnie highland laddie,
The Ale-house in great glee, with the Glass of brandy
The Roving sporting wheel - My love he is a dandy.

Nora Creena he can play, with all the variations,
The Rambler from Tralee, the De'il among the Tailors,
The Job of journey work, and the Boy she left behind her,
The song of Paddy Whack, and Tally-hi-ho the grinder.

He played up Bob and Joan, with Ju Ju Joice the joker,
The famous jig Tow-row, that was kept for Captain Croker,
The Ball of Ballinafad, and the Banks of Bannow
Plunkett's Moll in the wad, and Shawn O'Deer a'Glana.

He played of Bonaparte, who crossed the Alps in winter,
The Union hornpipe, and the Killinick fox hunters,
The song of Patrick's Day, and the jig of Paddy Carroll,
And each boy will Kiss the Maid behind the whiskey barrel.

So now I'll sing no more, because my song is ended,
If I said anything wrong I hope you're not offended
Of hornpipes, jigs and reels, I'm sure I told you many,
Get up and shake your heels, 'tis better sport than any.
---------

The melody is like "Courtin' in the Kitchen". The words in O Lochlainn's book are written sometimes with lower case letters in the titles throughout the verses, just as I copied it down. I can scan the notation if anyone wants it.

There are tunes mentioned in this song that I would be interested in knowing more about, like Ju Ju Joice the joker.

Alice

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Alice
Date: 21 Jul 01 - 12:20 PM

I wondered as I typed this up (The Piper's Tunes) if it is supposed to be "when back home" instead of "when that home he comes". I copied it as it is written in the songbook.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Burke
Date: 22 Jul 01 - 03:18 PM

Barbara mentioned Shelley Posen's "Fa-Sol-La." The song itself is entirely about a type of music (Sacred Harp) it includes a portion of Showers of Blessings, and I am pretty sure makes internal reference to several more Sacred Harp tunes.

Rick Fielding has also recorded it. He sings it with the Showers of Blessings reference, but leaves out actually singing it. I guess 'cause he could not do a 4 part fuge solo.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: pavane
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 04:06 AM

I have just turned up a modern and humorous 'song of songs' from my archives. I will transcribe and post it later, if possible.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Sep 03 - 08:35 AM

Looks like pavanne never did get around to this... :-)

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: pavane
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 03:16 AM

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: pavane
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 03:17 AM

OOps - clicked Submit by mistake.

You are right, I totally forgot about it, and I can't even remember what it was now!

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 10:10 AM

When he tried it again it played Croppies, Lie Down

--The Auld Orange Flute

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Santa
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 10:13 AM

Dave (Strawbs) Cousins has "Georgia on your mind" in his tribute to Sandy Denny.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: wysiwyg
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 10:18 AM

Not sure of the title, but it's a trubute to Maybelle Carter where several of the songs she played are mentioned and then a guitar picks a verse or chorus of the tune. I think Johnny Cash is one of the people singing it.

~S~

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Amos
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 01:28 PM

And the band played Waltzing Matilda
As the ship pulled away from the quai....

The Band PLayed Waltzing Matilda.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,ClaireBear
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 01:41 PM

What's that song with the chorus that goes "Fanny Adams, Fanny Adams, don't sing 'Fanny Adams'"?

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Margret RoadKnight
Date: 30 Sep 03 - 08:33 PM

Kristen Lems' - '50 Sound
Kate McGarrigle's - Work Song

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Uncle Phil
Date: 03 Oct 03 - 09:47 PM

How about Iris DeMent's song Mama's Opry..

"And we sang Sweet Rose of Sharon Abide with Me,
til I ride The Gospel Ship to Heaven's Jubilee,
on That Great Triumphant Morning My Soul Will Be Free,
My Burdens Will Be Lifted When My Savior's Face I See,
I Don't Want To Get Adjusted To This World Below,
I know He'll Pilot Me When It Comes My Time To Go,
Oh there's nothing in this world that's half as dear to me,
As the sound of my Mama's Opry"

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 03:09 PM

I just remembered the song/story that Ed McCurdy did about the teakettle that wanted to sing like people, and when he got the chance he sang Annie Laurie, Lo hear the gentle lark, (a few others I forget) "and several things from Rigoletto. He sang all the songs he had always wanted to sing..." - great story!

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Burke
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 08:09 PM

Shelley Posen's FA, SOL, LA is about Sacred Harp singing & refers to Wondrous Love, Parting Hand, and Showers of Blessings.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 24 Sep 04 - 08:34 PM

Just to be a bit pedantic: Most of the songs referred to above are not in fact metasongs, but simply references to other songs.

A proper metasong, or song within a song, would be one that is contained, not simply referred to, by another song. And I can only think of one such song, in any genre, by Sir Andrew Lloyd-Webber in the musical Cats, where Gus The Theatre Cat refers to the story of a character he played, and in doing so literally changes song, only to return to his original song after he has finished telling the story.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 25 Sep 04 - 12:40 AM

Speaking of pedantry,

Wouldn't Bonaparte's Retreat" and one of the sets of words to "Ashokan Farewell" be self-referential songs?

"You have now started to read the sentence you have just finished."

clint

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Sep 04 - 11:27 AM

There was a reference to 'Flowers of the Forest' as a REEL !!!! (June Tabor's Band Played W M ) . It is in fact a lament , written I believe after Culloden , and the mere idea of doing it up tempo would
cause a riot in ANY good pipe band .

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Leadfingers
Date: 25 Sep 04 - 11:29 AM

And incidentally , Dave Houlden wrote a LOVELY parody of FOUR of Eric Bogles songs in ONE song . PM Trayton to see if there is another print due od Daves WONDERFUL songs .

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 01:11 PM

It's called "Captain Collins and the Mermaid" and I'm trying to find the lyrics.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Ravenheart
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 02:44 PM

The way Norma Waterson runs from "Al Bowlly's in Heaven" to "The Very Thought of You" should qualify.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Joe_F
Date: 21 Sep 08 - 09:50 PM

To the same tune as "Turkey in the Straw" is another song, much more extensively self-referential, called "Old Zip Coon":

Oh, there was a man with a double chin,
Who performed with skill upon a violin,
And he played in time, and he played in tune,
But he never played anything but "Old Zip Coon".
"Old Zip Coon" he played all day,
Till he drove his friends away, etc.

For all we know, the man with the double chin may himself have been old Zip Coon.

Kipling's "Absent Minded Beggar" mentions "Rule Britannia" and "God Save the Queen".

Subject: Lyr Add: I HEARD IT FIRST ON THE RADIO (Gaither)
From: wysiwyg
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 06:54 PM

I HEARD IT FIRST ON THE RADIO
Words and music by William J. & Gloria Gaither
(As sung by the Gaither Vocal Band on the Homecoming Picnic album)


1. Jesus loves me, this I know.
For the Bible tells me so,
And I heard it first on the radio.
This love of God so rich and strong,
Shall be the saints' and angels' song,
And I heard it first on the radio.

2. Amazing grace-- how sweet the sound--
The lost and lonely can be found,
And grace can even save a wretch like me!
No other love could make a way;
No other love my debt could pay.
And I heard it first on the radio.

3. Needing refuge for my soul,
When I had no place to go--
And I heard it first on the radio.
From a life of wasted years,
He gave me peace and calmed my fears,
And I heard it first on the radio.

4. Had I not heard where would I be,
Without this love that lifted me,
When I was lost and nothing else would help?
Just as I was without one plea,
Sweet Jesus came and rescued me--
And I heard it first on the radio.

5. Alas, and did my Savior bleed,
That captive spirits could be freed,
And I heard it first on the radio.
My soul has found a resting place,
Until I meet Him face to face--
And I heard it first on the radio.

6. I love to tell the story true,
And those who know still love it, too;
Oh, what a precious Friend we have in Him!
And when in glory saints will tell,
'Twill be the theme they love so well--
And we heard it first on the radio.


Tag: Na na na na na na na, Na na na na na na na.
And I heard it first on the radio.
Na na na na na na na, Na na na na na na na.
And I heard it first on the radio.
I heard it first on the radio.
And I heard it first on the radio.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,Karen Impola
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 02:50 PM

This one's more subtle, as it doesn't refer to the songs *as songs*, but simply incorporates their names into the lyrics:

The Grateful Dead's "Uncle John's Band" mentions several oldtime/American trad songs and tunes. "Buckdancer's Choice" and "A Story the Crow Told Me" are the ones that come to my mind, but there may be more. Uncle John, supposedly, is John Cohen of the New Lost City Ramblers, who Garcia crossed paths with several times in the early 1960's.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 23 Mar 21 - 03:17 PM

The lyric song 'Waly Waly' from the early years of the 18th century was incorporated into the ballad 'Jamie Douglas' (Child 204) some time before 1800, probably by a broadside writer, or it could have been someone like Lord Hailes (James Dalrymple). There was a lot of mixing and matching going on at that time.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: JHW
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 06:58 AM

More memories. Soon as I saw this title I remembered the song about Long Way To Tipperary being written to claim a bet. Regret I don't know who sang it (nor who wrote it until now) but remember well the Southfield Bar at Girvan where the singing was outstanding. Alas that Bar is now (was) just a B&B, no licence.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 09:49 AM

I didn't realize those were other songs in Dire Straits' song till rereading this thrwad just now. Musta missed that the first time around.

And I was looking for songs that mention other songs. If the word for that isn't metasong, then what is it?

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 01:56 PM

'Medley of titles' is what you are looking for. 'Metasong' is perfectly well explained in the subject heading. 'songs within songs' so presumably not 'song titles within songs' which is what this thread has been filled with. Or not as the case may be!"

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 03:34 PM

Hmmmm, just looked it up on Wikipedia.
'Songs that refer to themselves or to songwriting'. Even more confused now!

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 24 Mar 21 - 03:53 PM

Medley of titles is not, from what it sounds like [I have not looked it up] what I sought. I was looking for songs that mention other songs. Not songs that list songs.

So And the band played Waltzing Matilda, or that song about Kissed her while the guitars played the Bonaparte's Retreat, or Kick the Pope mentioned in the Ould Orangle Flute.

Thanks for the definitions, though!

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GUEST,David Ingerson
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 02:23 AM

From "The Half Door" Irish trad.

She said, "Play up The Shaskeen Reel,
And I will make yeh happy feel."
And turning smart upon her heel,
She lifted down the half door.
I played that tune with grace and style,
With every note she winked and smiled
Until she had my heart beguiled
While dancing on the half door.

Cheers, David

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 06:05 AM


THEY DO'NT WRITE THEM LIKE THAT ANY MORE
by Pete Betts

Chorus:
And oh, how we could sing, what fun those nights would bring
Singing for hours on end
Once we found the key - oh what harmony
Those drunken voices could blend
Heart of My Heart, just for a start
Walkin' My Baby Back Home
When it comes to an end let's sing it again
They don't write them like that any more

They don't write them like that anymore    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muEW1LJv2ig

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: GeoffLawes
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 06:14 AM

Vin Garbutt- They don't write them like that anymore     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7Jr3_po1LA

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 08:34 AM

Did Bettsy write that? Didn't know that.

Subject: ADD: Hurricane of Reels
From: GUEST,Jiggers
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 09:41 AM

Has anyone mentioned Hurricane of Reels.

HURRICANE OF REELS

I rolled with Roaring Mary and I cuddled Bonnie Kate,
I got drunk with Bonnie Annie, scared The Pigeon On The Gate,
After all these Comely Maidens, with whom I did parade,
I most often took my chances with the darling Sligo Maid.

Tim Moloney took The Bag o’ Spuds, it was A Heavy Load,
Fed them out to Jenny’s Chickens Coming West Along the Road.
The merry Maids of Mitchelstown are missing from the floor,
They’ll be in The New Mown Meadows with The Bucks of Oranmore.

Lord McDonald and Lord Gordon swing the Lasses from Fermoy,
But sure Drowsy Maggie told me that they were The Soldier’s Joy.
I met with Tim Moloney, he was feeling mighty proud,
As the hieland danced the highland with the darling Miss McLeod.

I met The Jolly Tinker, he was singing like a thrush,
And The Lark was in the Morning and The Bird was In The Bush.
After all my great adventures with these maidens great and small,
I settled down and married to the lass from Donegal

Subject: ADD: The Sinner & the Song
From: Newport Boy
Date: 26 Mar 21 - 12:26 PM

A partial metasong is The Sinner & the Song, a gospel song for soloist and chorus by Will Thompson.

THE SINNER AND THE SONG

1 A sinner was wand’ring at eventide,
His tempter was watching close by at his side;
In his heart raged a battle for right against wrong;
But then from the church he hears the sweet song:
Jesus, Lover of my soul,
Let me to Thy bosom fly.

2 He lingered and listened to ev’ry sweet chord,
He remembered the time that he loved the Lord:
Come on! says the tempter, come on with the throng;
But hark! from the church again swells the song:
While the billows near me roll,
While the tempest still is high.

3 O tempter, depart, I have served thee too long.
I fly to the Saviour, He dwells in the song:
O Lord, can it be, that a sinner like me
May find a sweet refuge by coming to Thee?
Other refuge have I none:
Hangs my helpless soul on Thee.

I come, Lord, I come,
Thou’lt forgive the dark past,
And O, receive my soul at last.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 01 Apr 21 - 07:15 PM

THE OLD FIDDLE
Cicely Fox Smith © 1920
In SMALL CRAFT, pp. 91-95
tune by Charlie Ipcar

has the lines
,,,,,,,narrow street
Full of dinky Chinee houses, where the East and West do meet;
"Ranzo, Ranzo, Reuben Ranzo" – came the sound to me
Of a chantey chorus roaring 'bove the roaring of the sea.



thread
The Old Fiddle
thread.cfm?threadid=79690#1448343

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: John C. Bunnell
Date: 02 Apr 21 - 05:35 PM

Forest Lawn - written by Tom Paxton, best known for John Denver's performance per the link - includes passages from "Church in the Wildwood" and "Rock of Ages" (though both involve partially parodied lyrics).

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mo the caller
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 05:34 AM

There, I read through all the old posts and Geoff got there just a week ago with 'They don't write them like that Anymore'.
But has no-one mentioned 'The Egg'. Not only words from the songs but the tunes too. Somewhere there's a thread that decodes all the songs -some very obvious, some more obscure.
And how about 'A Wand'ring minstrel I', not song titles, but the tune changes to the style of the song he is singing - sentimental ballad, song of the sea, martial.

Subject: RE: Metasongs, songs within songs
From: Mrrzy
Date: 03 Apr 21 - 09:48 AM

Somehow I am reminded of the wandering minstrel, a thing of threads and zatches [biting his lip in consternation at the slip it made], whose name began with X and didn't.