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young folkies?

Petra A. Cosgrove 17 Dec 97 - 10:15 PM
Will 17 Dec 97 - 11:37 PM
Alan of Australia 18 Dec 97 - 01:20 AM
Jack mostly folk 18 Dec 97 - 03:01 AM
Jon W. 18 Dec 97 - 10:11 AM
Jen 18 Dec 97 - 10:38 AM
18 Dec 97 - 12:17 PM
Nonie Rider 18 Dec 97 - 02:40 PM
Alice 18 Dec 97 - 03:08 PM
Bill D 18 Dec 97 - 05:20 PM
Petra A. Cosgrove 18 Dec 97 - 05:35 PM
Jon W. 18 Dec 97 - 06:04 PM
Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca 18 Dec 97 - 06:58 PM
Dale Rose 18 Dec 97 - 07:33 PM
Bill D 18 Dec 97 - 07:58 PM
Dale Rose 18 Dec 97 - 08:53 PM
Bill D 18 Dec 97 - 10:19 PM
Bill D 18 Dec 97 - 10:21 PM
alison 19 Dec 97 - 12:17 AM
Sandy 19 Dec 97 - 09:11 AM
Selene 19 Dec 97 - 12:55 PM
Bill D 19 Dec 97 - 01:50 PM
dulcimer 19 Dec 97 - 10:58 PM
Alice 20 Dec 97 - 11:10 AM
Petra A. Cosgrove 20 Dec 97 - 02:11 PM
Bill D 20 Dec 97 - 03:23 PM
20 Dec 97 - 04:58 PM
20 Dec 97 - 05:02 PM
chet w 20 Dec 97 - 09:33 PM
Sheye 20 Dec 97 - 10:26 PM
Alice 21 Dec 97 - 12:56 PM
Petra A. Cosgrove 21 Dec 97 - 07:06 PM
Frank in the swamps 22 Dec 97 - 12:28 PM
Catfeet 22 Dec 97 - 05:05 PM
Susan of DT 22 Dec 97 - 09:10 PM
rastrelnikov 23 Dec 97 - 03:14 AM
Whippoorwill 23 Dec 97 - 11:16 AM
Petra A. Cosgrove 23 Dec 97 - 11:35 AM
Alice 23 Dec 97 - 11:58 AM
Joe Offer 24 Dec 97 - 02:08 AM
rastrelnikov 24 Dec 97 - 03:21 AM
chet w 27 Dec 97 - 06:58 PM
Steve in Wisconsin 27 Dec 97 - 09:47 PM
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Ruthie A 25 Mar 01 - 05:05 PM
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GUEST,Roger the skiffler 27 Mar 01 - 03:12 AM
Ella who is Sooze 27 Mar 01 - 04:09 AM
Joy Bennett 27 Mar 01 - 08:16 AM
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KAS 27 Mar 01 - 07:01 PM
Ella who is Sooze 28 Mar 01 - 09:05 AM
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Subject: young folkies?
From: Petra A. Cosgrove
Date: 17 Dec 97 - 10:15 PM

I'm just curious how many of us lurking about here on the DT are younger... It seems sometimes that we're stuck in a world where folk music is only for "old people" (no offense to anyone- the coolest people I've ever met in my life have ALL been folkies! And older folkies know all the good really obscure bands!) and so i was curious if in this place of large numbers of folkies, how many of us were of the younger generations. I've been listening to Steeleye Span, Silly Wizard, Wolfe Tones, Chieftains, The Clancy Brothers, Tommy Makem, Irish Rovers, Capercaille, Pentangle, and oiks.. who knows who else on the various compilation albums from Green Linnet, Shanachie, etc since I was... Born.. I think that the first song I ever knew the lyrics to by heart was "all around my hat" by steeleye.. Nope.. actually it was ::rolls her eyes:: this is embarassing, but it was "Maids When You're Young Never Wed an Old Man..." By I don't remember who!

i know that there is at least one more out here in the world of the DT (course, he's the man I'm in love with... so.. I know him real well.. ) And I'm just curious if there are others besides us.. ?

Petra A.C.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Will
Date: 17 Dec 97 - 11:37 PM

Petra, I suppose the obvious question is "How young is younger?"


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Alan of Australia
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 01:20 AM

Petra,
Well I'm young for a folkie & I have recordings of all the groups you mentioned so we have something in common, unfortunately not age. I also remember when the Weavers' recording of "Goonight Irene" was in the charts.........

Cheers,
Alan


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Jack mostly folk
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 03:01 AM

Admission of age and stupidity, My stupidity was to think Kingston Trio and Limeliters were the inventors of Folk, They certainly put it in the top forty charts and I'm forever grateful for their introduction to folk music. I am truly a folkie and not a spring chicken but Alan might have a few springs on me, as a youngster about eight or ten I recall Irene as a pop tune done by The Weavers.Now I can say the music makes me feel young. "Was'nt That A Time"? Today's folkies might want to lend an ear to some old folkies like "U"Utah Phillips, Rosalie Sorrels,Ramblin Jack Elliott, Spider John Koerner, Taj Mahal, Peggy, Mike and Pete Seeger. They are old folkies still doing the concert tours." Utah" on rare occassion. These folks are still performing as folk artist. I attend a lot of concerts and have noticed the new interest in folkie music.There are new and young artist on the rise and thank goodness for those who will keep the traditions alive. yours in music........Jack mostly folk....


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Jon W.
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 10:11 AM

Well, if it's any consolation, last summer I saw a great trio - three brothers playing Scottish/Newfoundland music on harp, fiddle, and cello, bones and bodran. A lot of traditional stuff and some original, but I couldn't tell the difference (that's meant as a compliment). Their ages? seventeen, fifteen, and thirteen.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Jen
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 10:38 AM

Younger, yes. I love Silly Wizard, Chieftans, Loreena McKennit, Enya(she's the one who started me on Celtic music, which is what I listen to and play)

I have a cat on my lap, so if this post ends up looking strange, it is his fault. he likes to lay on my keyboard.

Anyway, love anything to do with celtic music! Even though I got off to a late start.

Jen


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From:
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 12:17 PM

I got emersed in the world of folk music playing for Scottish Gas pipe band in Edinburgh while I was at university. That was some fourteen years ago. Seems like yesterday. Does early thirties still count as young? I guess it's all relative.

Oh, and favourites include Ossian (they are the very best), Ceolbeg, Capercaillie (early stuff), Battlefield Band (early stuff) and the many sessions enjoyed from Edinburgh to Dingwall in the company of some of these guys.

Cheers,

Sandy


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Nonie Rider
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 02:40 PM

I'm 40. I think Joan Baez was my first introduction to professionally sung folk (blush), but I grew up on the written stuff. Two of my childhood browsing books were re Scottish Border Ballads and English & Scottish Ballads.

So, long before I heard them sung, I was reading about loathely brides, forlorn maidens, Jock o'the Side, Robin Hood, roses and briars twining over graves, go saddle me the fastest horse, and when he came to the green grass growing, and binding the mermaid's sark around an aching head that ached e'er the more.

I later had the delight of taking a ballads class and hunting down the English, Scottish, American, and Norwegian(?) versions of Fair Annie--the unwed mother of seven sons, cast aside for a new bride, who turns out to be her sister. When you look at all the versions, they really do come across as an ethnic joke: the English version is concerned about the woman's family line, the Scottish about the money for her dowry, and the American about punishing the man for his crime in kidnapping, raping, and then abandoning the woman. I've forgotten the details of the Norwegian (or was it Danish) version, but it might have been concerned with sin and confession. I'd have to check.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Alice
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 03:08 PM

Confession. My birthday is Saturday, Dec. 20. I will be 46. My theory about the baby boomers like me is that we STILL think we are the "young generation". We are locked into our college age years or there abouts in our self identity. I guess because they were such intensely formative years for our American culture, and because of the impact of our numbers. We did alot in big groups... group demonstrations, group singing, group living, group .... anyway, I was always hesitant to join groups, but even the rugged individualists conformed in some way. Having a grandfather from Leitrim, another who played fiddle, and being in a Montana-blue-collar-railroad-Irish-Catholic type of community, the Clancy Bros. and Tommy Makem were kings, at the top of the list... with all other folk type performers coming after. The ones most admired by my brothers and me were the folks who gathered up the music of the common people... Alan Lomax, etc, and people like Theodore Bickel, who would sing things in other languages. But, I digress. Back to the question, where do we draw the age line between old folkies and young folkies? Alice in Montana


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 05:20 PM

well....I 'think' I am seeing a pattern here...those who identify themselves as younger seem to be listing "groups" as their introduction to the music...and often celtic groups...the kind with an active, driving rhythm as a major aspect of the music...(yes, I know..there were groups in the 30's, 40's etc..and there are some solo performers listed..but there is a modern trend for music of various types to be done 'at' you BY groups rather than 'by' you IN groups:witness the number of requests we see for 'X's version of some song, rather that just the song.
.....sure...a lot of the younger folkies HAD to start with what they saw and heard most easily...which was commercial adaptations of traditional songs, for the most part. And there was no place for most of them to really hear some of the older 'source' material and singers.

I am not suggesting that this is good or bad...just that we must be aware that, in traditional music, it really takes a lot of time and effort to find and hear the full range of music....and this forum is doing a LOT to give some perspective to the whole thing. Now if we can just get more of the younger set to really read it!!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Petra A. Cosgrove
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 05:35 PM

Hmm.. how young is young... I guess I think of young as being under 30... I just sometimes feel quite alone in a world where people my age tend to be so caught up in "alternative" "metal" and "rap" that.. the older (more beautiful I think) songs and music are lost to them.. And it's strange on the DT sometimes, I listen to everyone and how long they've been playing/singing/listening and I just was curious if there were others besides myself and Til that were on here that were of the younger generation (like the kids that Jon W. was talking about...) who somehow got dropped off in a generation where they make no sense..

No offense to anyone who feels that I'm slighting the older generation, it was my father who first introduced me to the 'Rovers and Steeleye when I was still in the womb, it's just strange sometimes when you feel like you just sort of got dropped off in the wrong generation somehow.

Not meaning any offense..

just curious..

petra


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Jon W.
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 06:04 PM

Well, by Bill D's definition, I'm young because my introduction to folk music was through commercial sources - first the Joan Baez/Kingston Trio/Harry Belafonte my mother listened to, then trad and blues songs by rock groups, then blues records, then Celtic music records by Planxty, Bothy Band, etc. 15 years after the albums were first released, and finally once in a while I get to see live performances. I have yet to participate in a sing-along or hootnanny or whatever the "old" folkies are supposed to do.

But by Petra's definition I'm old because I'm nearly 42. Petra, you'll be surprised how young you still are when you're my age. Bless you, I wish there were more like you.

BTW, I was cleaning out my wallet since last message and found a business card from that trio. Their name is Kirkmount. I have information on how to contact them if anyone wants to book them or buy their recordings. They have appeared on Prarie Home Companion, or so the MC said as she introduced them at the concert. Send me a personal message if interested.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Tim Jaques tjaques@netcom.ca
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 06:58 PM

There is a band from Cape Breton Island called Slainte Mhath. I don't think any of them are twenty yet and the majority are still in high school. Two are little brothers of members of the Barra MacNeils. They have a web site, the URL of which I can't recall, but if you search under their name they should show up. They have a CD of traditional music out.

Fiddler Richard Wood from PEI isn't twenty years old yet, and he has four CD's out and has toured North American and the UK and Ireland. He recently played Letterman and GMA with Shania Twain, although he is mostly a traditional Celtic style fiddler and step-dancer and not a C & W performer. (Oh well, we all have to eat.)

Locally, there is a bluegrass band that has a 13 year old banjo picker, although he usually has to give their bar gigs a miss.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Dale Rose
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 07:33 PM

Kirkmount was on the PHC of March 15, 1997, featuring musicians from towns of under 2,000. Check here for the rundown of the show, including RealAudio of their performance.

http://phc.mpr.org/performances/19970315/

While you are there, go check out some of the other performers. Some of my favorites over the last year or so were Natalie MacMaster, The Forbes Family, Iris DeMent, The Rankin Family, Leo Kottke . . . but hey, look for yourself! No doubt you will find things you like, including things you didn't know you liked, because you had never heard them before.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 07:58 PM

I am old enough to have gone to genuine 'hootenannies'..in the early 60's...and we did very little of the Joan Baez, Kingston Trio ,etc. stuff, mostly because of one or two people who knew some of the really 'trad' stuff and started me down the road to learning about it...I know maybe 3 or 4 people under 30 who are doing REALLY traditional music...out of 70 or 80 regulars in our group! My own son is 15, and he is into all the pop bands...he just looks at my autoharp with an air of amusement, and can barely tolerate an acapella ballad in his presence.

Those of the younger generation who DO get into bands like Tim Jaques mentions are often AWESOME musicians, but there are so few who do anything but Celtic and Bluegrass...or maybe Cajun...and they tend to do everything 40 or 50 decibels louder than is necessary. I went to see 'Silly Wizard' and 'The Tannahill Weavers' a few years back, and was barely able to sit thru it..!!!

(I did like the 'early' Battlefield Band ...and Ossian, because they came close to making a lot of the music sound like the way it was written, instead of just amplified variations on traditional melodies..)

hmmm...*smile*...do I sound like I have strong opinions??Naahhh.....!! Age? well I am almost 59, and have come by my opinions honestly..(I wrestled 2 banjo players and an acedemic folklorist for 'em..)

interesting discussion...I'm glad Petra started it, although I'm not sure how much all this is contributing to her original question...


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Dale Rose
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 08:53 PM

Tell you what I did when I was in college~~on a trip to Chicago, two of my friends went to see Bob Gibson, I went to see an Elvis Presley movie. Can you imagine anything so dumb? I think I have made up for it in the years since then, though. Never went to a hootenanny, but I have seen a great number of fabulous performers. Not all that many that your average "music" fan would know, but definitely people that are memorable to me.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 10:19 PM

coulda been worse...you could have gone to see Bob Gibson and asked him to do an Elvis Presley song...

My very first 'folk' concert was Pete Seeger....bout'61... followed by The Beers family and The New Lost City Ramblers...now I'm into rare appearances by Lou Killen or the Copper Family etc., etc...(in my area these sort DO come by occasionally...and they are worth waiting for..)


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Dec 97 - 10:21 PM

coulda been worse...you could have gone to see Bob Gibson and asked him to do an Elvis Presley song...

My very first 'folk' concert was Pete Seeger....bout'61... followed by The Beers family and The New Lost City Ramblers...now I'm into rare appearances by Lou Killen or the Copper Family etc., etc...(in my area these sort DO come by occasionally...and they are worth waiting for..)


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: alison
Date: 19 Dec 97 - 12:17 AM

Hi from a fellow youngster.

I'm 28 and proud of it, (or should that be 32????????)

Anyway I don't think age matters. We all have a lot to learn from each other.

Slainte

Alison


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Sandy
Date: 19 Dec 97 - 09:11 AM

It's a bit of a sweeping statement to say that the "younger generation" talk about bands since that's their only exposure to folk music. The band thing is due to the increasing availability of this kind of music on LP's and now CD's. It's also a good way of learning songs.

There is also a social trend away from providing ones own entertainment. Most people today think a party means standing in someones kitchen with a can of beer in your hand shouting at someone else over the music.

The best entertainment in my experience is home grown and what becomes a "party" never started off with that intent - it just happened.

They just don't happen so often these days. The pre-arranged folk clubs and singing workshops seem to me a bit twee and artificial.

Maybe it's just an English thing.


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Subject: How young is young?
From: Selene
Date: 19 Dec 97 - 12:55 PM

Hi there

I just found this bullitin board,but I'm only 18. (well, only, my brother claims I'm over the hill) the problem is that youngsters nowadays (me included) are not exposed to enough kinds of music, only to house, or whatever the current fad your friends are into is. I, luckely had parents that tortured me by playing pavarotti, simon and garfunkel and all sorts of stuff when I was young, and now I actually apreciate them. (well, pavarotti less than the rest.... But that's not country or folk anyway). You can learn to like, or appreciate anything, methinks.

Selene


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Bill D
Date: 19 Dec 97 - 01:50 PM

well. Selene...welcome...I hope you find something to interest you here...lots of songs, tunes, and links to others....and a great bunch of folks..


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: dulcimer
Date: 19 Dec 97 - 10:58 PM

Just my .0002 cents. I play with a fellow who is 69 years old. He started playing at 15, guitar back-up and singing with some of the fine fiddlers in southern Kansas and Northern Oklahoma in the post WWII era. Just recently we started going to ceili in Tulsa, a new experience for him since he has been playing country/western for over 50 years. But he really enjoys playing with the ceili house bands. It is a challenge and I think helps keep him young. We go to meeting several times a month that we can play with others for four hours at a time and he rarely sits out a tune. How young is young? Music, either playing or collecting, keeps us young. It kind of equalizes age and allows us to share without regard for age. It presents a challenge and a zest to life. So, keep playing and keep sharing.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Alice
Date: 20 Dec 97 - 11:10 AM

We had a thread some time back in which many of us shared stories of how we grew up with our relatives making music at home together. Most of the traditional songs I learn now are from old books that I find in libraries and second hand stores. When I sing them at a group get-together, many of them are songs people have never heard, because they are not current recordings. Even if I hear a recording of a song that I want to learn, I try to discover the earliest printed source that I can find. Any of you "young" one's out there who do not have family or group singalongs to learn from would find a great source of songs in your local library. Look for the oldest, most tattered books on the shelves, and you will find a treasure. Look for "Folk Songs of North America" by Alan Lomax. Look for old records, if you have access to a turntable. Alice in MT


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Petra A. Cosgrove
Date: 20 Dec 97 - 02:11 PM

Speaking as one ofthose who does tend to think in terms of bands, it's due to the fact that my father and I arethe only musically inclined people in our household - and he met the music through his girlfriend introducing him to Steeleye. And though Til and I sing/play together as much as we can (given classes and work) the only place that we find the music that we love is through bands. I know the songs I do from Steeleye & Silly Wizard and Fairport and Co. Unfortunately outside of family, there is no other way to really learn the songs.. At least in the areas I've lived in, the serious folk music interests are not there. People don't want to sing songs written in the 15th c. (except for us wierdos..)Though I live in a highly Irish area when I'm in NJ, all that people want to hear are the rebellion/drinking songs. The old ballads, and the really beautiful songs, the interest isn't there, becuase they only want to hear it when they're in a pub drinking.

I understand why some look down on us becuase we do think in terms of bands, but its' the only access we have to the music. And though some songs cross every single band (Who hasn't done a cover of Tam Lin? > it's still AFTER you've attached it to one band that another band does it . We learn the songs by band, there are no gatherings (that I've ever heard of!) to go and learn from other people. If it were not for the folk/international section of my music store (and the web!) I would never have learned these songs..

So don't put us down too badly becuase we learn by band, at least we learn them. At least there are a few of us out here who, even if it's only by buying a CD, learn and play and sing the songs, and then will teach them to our children the way they should be taught.

Petra Defenderette of the Young Band Based Folkies.. :)

:) I'm glad that I started this thread too, lots of interesting viewpoints to read.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Dec 97 - 03:23 PM


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From:
Date: 20 Dec 97 - 04:58 PM

Any music I have learned, has been by band, or via the Scouting, I used to be part of a group who would sing just about anything singable. Unfortunatly, the group split up, but I still have most of their songs, and i have a couple of cd's whith some of this kind of music (country, singalongs, folk, all this kind of stuff-even some old rock and roll!). I guess you could just say I love anything I can sing along to, much to my parents displeasure (they unfortunatly, do not approve.) And my Grandpa, when he could sing, (he's doesn't have the breath anymore), he taught me a lot, so I'd say, look up the old folks, try grandparents, or other people like that, theyoften know a lot more than they let on. But I will admitt you won't always get the correct words (at the tune of It's a long way to tipperary) It's a long way to tickle Mary...... ;-)

Selene


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From:
Date: 20 Dec 97 - 05:02 PM

Any music I have learned, has been by band, or via the Scouting, I used to be part of a group who would sing just about anything singable. Unfortunatly, the group split up, but I still have most of their songs, and i have a couple of cd's whith some of this kind of music (country, singalongs, folk, all this kind of stuff-even some old rock and roll!). I guess you could just say I love anything I can sing along to, much to my parents displeasure (they unfortunatly, do not approve.) And my Grandpa, when he could sing, (he's doesn't have the breath anymore), he taught me a lot, so I'd say, look up the old folks, try grandparents, or other people like that, theyoften know a lot more than they let on. But I will admitt you won't always get the correct words (at the tune of It's a long way to tipperary) It's a long way to tickle Mary...... ;-)

Selene


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: chet w
Date: 20 Dec 97 - 09:33 PM

Personally I am thankful for every young person out there who is educating themselves (can you tell I'm a teacher) about the musical and other traditions around them, of which many more are available than when I started THANKS to cd's, bands, etc. There was a long time, during most of the 80's, when I never saw a young person at a music festival, at least not with an instrument or singing.

Chet W.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Sheye
Date: 20 Dec 97 - 10:26 PM

How young is young? I use the sliding rule of thumb: Anyone older than me is over the hill and all those younger are still wet behind the ears! This keeps me at the prime of my life. Will admit, though, that I sulked for a few days when I hit that 3-0.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Alice
Date: 21 Dec 97 - 12:56 PM

Petra, you and your dad are a power of two that could start your own song/session group, even if you meet just once every month or two to start with. When the session here started about three years ago, there were times when only two or three people would show up to play. PERSEVERANCE FURTHERS! Now it is crowded every week. All it took was the agreement on the part of management of a hotel lobby to allow it to happen. I have a suggestion for those of you out there longing for a group of older folks with whom you may sing. Call all the senior citizen associations in your area and ask if you can start a session or song circle in their senior citizen center. Great things could happen for all of us. Folk music shared person to person may become a more common experience. Every community would be enriched if that could happen. Thanks for starting this thread. Alice in Montana


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Petra A. Cosgrove
Date: 21 Dec 97 - 07:06 PM

Bill - didn't really think anyone was putting us down, just got defensive.. ;) I'd jsut got a pic in the mail of Maddy Prior and I (prior to her split with Steeleye in Oct) and was feeling very pro-band when I wrote that.. :) (can we say this is one 19 year old that was in HEAVEN!)

I wish that my father and I could start something, but I'm only home once ever couple of months (that whole college thing ya know.. can't be a famous archaeologist with out all the proper degrees et. al. ::grumble, grumble, gripe:: and there is really very little interest int he town I go to school in. They want to hear new age, they want to hear rock.. They don't wnat to hear celtic folk.. ::sighs:: Though Tilell (sometimes lurker here on the DT) and I both want to start a band, it's hard in between the 18 credit hours we're both usually taking, and work etc.. ::Sighs:: But we sing with each other as much as we can.. :) (for that day when we have a little more time on our hands) and next year, I'll be doing hands on musical research in the pubs of Ireland!!

Selene- Do Dads count as "old people?" petra


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Frank in the swamps
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 12:28 PM

I like Sheyes sliding rule, it's my new standard. About "Bands" I love these guys. They're doing what we like to do,in many cases exceptionally well, but you youngsters needn't be poor, pitiful, ignorant sorts anymore (insert that winky emoticon thing here). The Smithsonian is slowly releasing the old folkways collections, and if you look hard you can still find old folkways l.ps'. (What's an l.p? You are young). Folkways was one of the greatest musical projects ever in the history of recorded music. Moses Ash (wasn't that his name) deserves a star on the American flag. Also library of congress recordings are appearing on c.d. In some cases these songs are recordings of people so old they don't remember all the words, or their voices are so worn that they don't sing very well, but they're honest songs sung without artifice and they are what the bands are elaborating on. Nothing beats making music with good company, but listening to recordings is pretty damn nice.

Frank I.T.S.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Catfeet
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 05:05 PM

Hey, I'm 27 & have been on the list for a couple of years now. I wish that there was still the same opportunity to sing with others where I now live (in Vermont) as opposed to where I used to live (NYC). I got into folk pretty young- 13, on my own, and have continued to pursue it over the years when & where I could find it, often finding that the most active participants were this thread's definition of young. However, now that we are living in rural southeastern Vermont, there is very little in the way of other singers, musicians, etc. that I can locate. Having tried the song circle thing on my own, and having no one come, I sort of gave up in order to finish the house renovation that we are working on. When that's done in a month or so, I'll actually have a place to sing & try again. Alas!(dramatic hand to forehead)

Frustrated in Vermont, Catfeet


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Susan of DT
Date: 22 Dec 97 - 09:10 PM

Petra - we are all young, just not necessarily by your standard. I will be 50 in a couple of weeks. We used to sing in Girl Scouts and summer camp. The first Mitch Miller and then Hootenany were on TV and the whole family watched both. My father then brought home some Joan Baez and Harry Belafonte records for my brother and I to listen to. The Outing Club sang in college and then I got to Fox Hollow as my first folk festival in about 1970. Bands never interested me particularly, but single or duo performers did. I started writing down the songs we sang in Outing Club before I left college and from that the DT was eventually born.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: rastrelnikov
Date: 23 Dec 97 - 03:14 AM

I once heard that opera singers reach their peak in their early forties. Folk and traditional music, for the most part, is less physically strenuous to sing than opera. I think we can get better for longer. I'm 33 now. I think by the time I hit 60 I'll be a damn good folk singer. Maybe as good as Carl Sandburg, eh?

At the most traditional-oriented song circle I attend, I've seen the widest range of ages. The bulk of the people are about my age to fifteen years older than me, but there are also two regulars in their 70s, a couple of semi-regulars just off to university, and one four-part harmony family whose youngest seems around ten years old.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Whippoorwill
Date: 23 Dec 97 - 11:16 AM

I guess I'm still in the younger generation, at least by one definition. I got my first taste of folk music (aside from what I learned at Scout camp) from a commercial album - Burl Ives' brand-new Wayfaring Stranger on 78's that my uncle gave me for my 12th birthday.

Age is not measured in years, it's an attitude, and I believe only an adult can appreciate folk/traditional music. I'm happy that so many REAL youngsters are mature enough to see the good in it.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Petra A. Cosgrove
Date: 23 Dec 97 - 11:35 AM

I feel as though I've offended a few people due to the age thing.. So I want to clear that up (if I haven't then I'm really glad, but I'd still rather post this because I feel like i have!)

Age is a purely mental thing- I am fully aware of this fact!! I'm 19 and feel like I'm far more mature than my 30+ year old step-brother. And my 30++ aunt is far more "childlike" (in the good way) than most 10 year olds. However, temporally "older" people are allowed to listen to strange music, it's a requirement I think.. But people my age get a whole lot of h@!! from friends/strangers/everyone in general if we step outside the expected norm. (Imagine the looks I got sunbathing over the summer at the beach with some of my tapes of small local singers from the NY Ren Faire.) And I was just curious if there were others who went through this kind of thing, trying tobe a relatively normal (folkie, SCAdian, bookworm, archaeologist in training) "young person" and just finding the music thing made it strange/hard/annoying some time.. (not that I'm complaining really.. it tends to scare off those who are super closedminded, and I don't want to deal with them anyway! :))

And just as a side note, with my view on the world, and having grown up in SCA encampments, then later on joining the Wiccan bulletin boards on P*, some of my favorite people are 30+, people my age can be such TWITS! (which is another reason why I was lookingfor younger people here, hoping that it might be the music that fixed/broke twit levels)

Okay.. I hope that made some sense and wasn't totally rambly.. (or too rambly anyway... I'm sure it was mostly rambly.)

Petra


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Alice
Date: 23 Dec 97 - 11:58 AM

Petra, at 19, peer pressure was an obvious issue to deal with in my life, but as time went on, its power faded away. One hint. It fades faster if you ignore it. alice in mt


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 24 Dec 97 - 02:08 AM

Hey, Petra - I don't think anybody took offense here. This is a pretty mellow bunch of people. Nonetheless, I guess most of us might to hang onto our youth.
Now if you wanna talk about offensive, let me tell you - I'm almost 50, but not quite used to calling myself an adult. Well, last weekend, I went to a fast food restaurant - and they gave me a senior discount! The NERVE of them!
But we're really glad you're here, Petra. Just don't get patronizing and don't treat us like we're REALLY old.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: rastrelnikov
Date: 24 Dec 97 - 03:21 AM

Well, music is damned important Petra, but if you think you've felt peer pressure now, just wait 'till you say you want to get your doctorate in archeology or to marry an archeologist or spend ten years of your life digging ruins in Central America or Southern Greenland. You ain't seen nothin' yet, woman.

I think it's safe to say that everyone here thinks you're quite intelligent, wise, and LUCKY to have found traditional music. And we think the satisfactions it provides are worth any petty ostracism that you suffer.

I remember in University, when an Eagles tape ended, trying to play a little of Alan Stivel's, Rennaissance of the Celtic Harp, to a friend Didn't work. That's an incredible album. It turned Fiona Ritchie of NPR's Thistle and Shamrock onto Irish music. It inspired Lorena McKennit to take up the harp. My friend thought it was just weird. Heck, I even remember a housemate who thought Janis Ian was weird.

I was shocked and amazed and delighted when, at about age 26, I discovered there WERE other people out there who didn't just tollerate folk, they LOVED it. My God, there were even women who loved folk. Boggles the mind, don't it. Joys are best when they're shared joys, but don't give them up just because you sometimes have to live them alone. A lot of wonderful people out there can never share many of your joys, but if you keep looking...


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: chet w
Date: 27 Dec 97 - 06:58 PM

My how things have changed, though. When I was in high school (beginning in 1969)I started listening to jazz, as well as bluegrass and traditional music of many kinds. It wasn't like everybody was interested in what I was interested in , but people thought it cool, in general, that I knew of somebody named Thelonius Monk etc etc. I was not an outcast for my unusual tastes, but it seems that today if a young person wears a t-shirt with the wrong logo he/she is in real danger of becoming marginalized. As a schoolteacher, I see this process up close and often. What the hell happened?

Chet W.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Steve in Wisconsin
Date: 27 Dec 97 - 09:47 PM

Hi All-

Interesting thread. I have found, much to my chagrin, that when you tell people that you're into "folk music", they dismiss you much like Bluto did to Stephen Bishop's guitar in "Animal House." (An obscure, if overstated, reference, but you know what I mean). The relevance to me personally is that we (a couple friends and I) started a non-profit group last year and chose to call it the "Fondy Acoustic Music Alliance" just to avoid those who would summarily dismiss our events because they were "folk music." (We host jams and have started a concert series).

I, myself, was introduced to "folk music" because of the popularity of the acoustic guitar in songs by such folks as: Crosby, Stills, & Nash, Neil Young, John Denver, Steve Goodman, etc. It was my good fortune to be growing up in the Chicago area when "folk music" (okay "singer/songwriters") were popular. There were two GREAT clubs then-The Earl of Old Town and The Amzingrace. I was fortunate enough to sit up close and personal for concerts by: Steve Goodman, Bob Gibson, Peter Yarrow (solo), Hamid Hamilton Camp and the Skymonters (not a typo-I love their album and wish it would come out on CD), John Hartford, Jim Post, Odetta, Bonnie Koloc, etc. It was through their music that I discovered the roots of folk music.

To me, folk music is music from the heart that can be played by a 16 piece band or on a solo guitar. Folk music speaks of real human events and emotions.

Ah, the age thing, I am a baby boomer. Nearly 41 and aging fast as I just attended the wedding of a young man who was but a wee first grader my first year of teaching.

Happy Days,

Steve from Wisconsin


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Dec 97 - 07:39 PM

Chet...advertising & money happened! There are no $$$$$ in tunes that are 200 years old. The kids today are not only sold music, they are force-fed the CONCEPT of music being 'old' after a year or so.And musicians know that if they own the music, they make more money...so who wants to do some one else's songs, unless they can re-arrange them enough to make it different than anyone else?....so what we get is gratutious variety...change SELLS whether it is tasteful, thoughtful change or not. ..


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Cliff
Date: 28 Dec 97 - 09:03 PM

I'm fairly young (under 30) and I have been a member of this group for a couple of years anyway. Bill's statement that there is no money in 200+ year old tunes might hold true in the US but people like Ashley MacIsaac in Canada and Capercallie in Scotland have all done well with 200+ year old tunes. I agree though that there is most definitelly a stagnant repitition to the music (i.e. the evolution of New Kids on the Block-The Spice Girls-Hanson) which I equate to the flavour of the month. If more people were made aware of the roots of music I am sure more folk musicians would be able to make a living from their music but how many folk musicians get into it for the money. There are young folkies out there in a different guise and I think it is unfamiliar to those who have a strict definition of folk.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Earl
Date: 29 Dec 97 - 08:29 AM

I agree that it's a shame that the musical tastes of kids and teenagers are being shaped by record and media executives with only one thing in mind. The irony is that there is more traditional music of all kinds on CD than ever before. There are independent recordings being made which are clearly more for the love of music than for money. More old records are being re-released on CD (I got the Smithsonian collection for Christmas) There are new compilations of old 78's that were never available before. And there are record stores in the real world and on-line that actually carry them! But radio play lists are tighter than ever and television is still a "vast wasteland."

On the other hand, for young people who are turned on by traditional music, there is a certain joy in discovering something outside the mainstream. I don't think I'd want to live through another "folk boom."


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Dec 97 - 12:10 PM

One specific example of the attitude that scares me.....A number of years ago...(15?--17?) there were 2 guys...Malcom Dalglish and Grey Larsen...who got together and did 'mostly' folk music..tunes, songs...they did a concert in my area, and they were great. I bought their record, and really enjoyed it. Several years later, they were back....so off I go to hear 'em again.....and the sound was totally different! The tunes were faster, more driving...the songs were chosen from more modern sources, and a couple that I had heard them do before had been speeded up & 'energized', for want of a better word...I really only enjoyed about 20% of the concert. So, I girded my loins and actually went up to one of them after the concert and asked why! And the answer was basically, "We really like making a sort of living doing music, but the younger audiences simply don't come out unless we do it this way." ...And all I could do was shrug. And I had essentially the same reaction to 'Battlefield Band'...the first time I heard them, it was wonderful!!....and several years later, there had been personnel changes, and the music was louder, faster, and less 'trad'...new arrangements, more electronics, etc. (they had their own sound man and sound gadgets along...took 2 hours to 'set up' the equipment to satisfy them)

I know that there are a few exceptions to this trend..(as in some Canadian groups etc.), but it gets increasingly difficult to find them...especially for a live concert. There are perpormers who will occassionally do a tape or CD of trad stuff they like, even though they profess that they seldom dare to do a concert of it. (One exception was Eileen McGann...she actually talked to our group during the concert about being convinced during negotiations that we would appreciate a concert of mostly traditional music, and how she really enjoyed being able to do it.)

So, what's to do? Nothing, really...except hold on to your records and look for re-releases on CD...and sing with friends who share your interests as long as you can...(I'm pretty darn lucky in this area!...and hope that Mudcat & the DT keep providing this oasis of contact for those of us who appreciate the non-mainstream stuff!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Philippa
Date: 27 Jan 99 - 05:54 PM

Unlike Alice and Joe, I started calling myself 'middle-aged' at 35 -- not that I let the defining category inhibit my behaviour. There aren't so many areas of life where I find age an advantage, but the Mudcat forum is one of them. I got interested in folk music as a child. Being older means having heard and remembering more songs and tunes and singers and players, following more of the references appearing on the thread. One of the younger Mudcatters who is interested in blues was fascinated to hear from another forum participant who had personal acquaintance of people like Mississippi John Hurt. And many of us are in awe of Sandy Paton's depth of experience. Also, as other correspondents have pointed out, traditional music devotees rather venerate the old -- songs that go back centuries and learning from the people around them rather than from recordings and the web [see Bill D's message above - which has some bearing on my message below]

There have been a few recent threads concerning younger folkies, or the dearth thereof. I did a forum search to refresh a thread, and as I read through this one, I realised that it isn't the thread I was looking for - but it will do. I wanted to respond to the people who were worrying about the lack of younger adults at folk clubs and the other people who were pointing out that there are lots of young people at other kinds of venues, especially big concerts.

I hope that a good proportion of these young people also have something like singing circles, sessions, parties at which instead of putting on the CD player they make their own music. Clearly, I have my own preferences in music and song, and they are mostly in the traditional vein. But I'm less concerned about what types of songs and tunes other people want to sing and play than that they can appreciate the non-professional and the simple (accoustic and a capella) as well as the more elaborate music we expect in the concert hall - music we can make in our own houses, fields, etc without needing elaborate equipment.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Philippa
Date: 27 Jan 99 - 06:03 PM

apparently the thread I was looking for is current: where are all the kids


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:14 PM

so this is an old thread - I'd like to revive it -- Being a not so young (in years - 46) folkie, I really believe age is just a number - youth is in your heart and spirit. -- too mushy? I really believe it. I know a number of younger folkies - 16-35. My partner Steve is almost 70, but you wouldn't know it -- he is very much young at heart (gets a bit cantankerous about rock music though.)

I too grew up on commercial folk, but had some exposure to traditional as well. But it wasn't until college that I fell into the world of maritime music. Summer Tuesday nights at the pier at South Street Seaport Museum listening to the X Seamen Institute (Bernie Klay, Frank Woerner, John Townley and Dan Aguiar) as the river drifted by and the Watchtower sign across the river in Brooklyn flashed "Do you believe?" "7:45" "God is love" No flashing sign anymore, just the time and temperature, but every tuesday night 6-8 from June-Sept, the New York Packet brings back those times -- and Frank Woerner is still a part of it.

Involved in music for most of my life in one way or another, I completely abandoned it for about 10 years until it found me again in the guise of the Folk Music Society of New York -- and my interest and love of the music was re-awakened. Now almost 10 years later I sing with 3 groups (Water Sign and The Johnson Girls, and yes, the New York Packet) and have a very interesting performing life outside of my mortgage-paying job.

And, recently elected President of the club that brought it all back to me, I'm always looking to share with others what this club has done for me.

Hoping to bring one of the younger folkies (17) with me on my very short tour to the UK next year - and give her some opportunities as well.

We are always looking for other folkies with whom to share our time.

I also love to hear stories of others' folk inspirations -- especially the very old and the very young (no discrimination agains those of us in the middle, though)

As a club we're always looking for ways to introduce young people (in age) to folk music (dragging, cajoling, blackmailing, bargaining, enticing) whatever works.

So you under-30 folkies out there -- what works?


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: mousethief
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:17 PM

I used to be an under-30 folkie. Now I'm an over-30 folkie. This year I'll become a 40+ folkie. I learn more about folk music every year, and "discover" new performers, and learn to play new songs.

I think age DOES make a difference in a lot of things. Perspective, for one.

But I've been a folkie since high school and that hasn't changed in the last 20-odd years (and some of them were REALLY odd).

Alex


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST,Shona
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 02:55 PM

Well, I'm a young folkie! This June i will be 16! I live in the north of Scotland and really even though there are some pretty darn good bands out there, there is not enough being done to make kids like us really get interested in traditional music. I first got interested in folk music when i went down to a folk club in the local pub. I was allowed in there but not to drink! I sang in public for the very first time and recieved a lot of encouragement from everyone! since then i have sang, played my fiddle, piano, tin whistle and my guitar in front of loads of people and they are all so nice! Everyone on the folk scene is so friendly and I've made such a lot of new friends! and i have an auditon for a traditional music school on monday! What i really wanna do is music. I want to be a traditional musician. I really do and i'll do anything to get there! If you want to give me some times on how to get noticed i'll be so grateful! Yours in music Shona


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:18 PM

Bill Jones, Sam Pirt, Ola (If you don't know who they are, you're missing out; I think they all have websites.) At my local club this week a whistle group including two under-tens played a lovely tune written by one of the children


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST,Sam Pirt
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:24 PM

FOLK MUSIC IS FOR EVERYONE (INCLUDING US YOUTH'S!!!!!)

I know loads and loads and then loads more young folk bands, folk musicians etc.. The scene is buzzing like never before.

I have disovered there are are 3 main (not the only) places where there are loads of EXCELLENT folk musicians. These places are in Scotland, paticularly around Glasgow (with the Academy of music), Newcastle (due to Folkworks and now the degree course) and Derbyshire (because!!)

I am 21 by the way and am in a band's 422, The Pack, AAAAG etc.. All under the age of 21!!, there are many more.

Check out my website for more info: www.sampirt.co.uk

Cheers, Sam


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:26 PM

See! I told you he had a website


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST,willa
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 03:28 PM

Come on, Sam, you're not under 21 now, you'll soon be an oldie!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: mousethief
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 04:41 PM

Go for it, Shona! More power to youth in traditional music!

Someday I'll be young again.

Alex


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 05:21 PM

Please also see the Folkbabies thread.

~S~


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: ARB
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 05:41 PM

I'm 11 and kind of accidentally got interested in folk music when I was doing a project. I like alot of different kinds of music because my parents listen to alot of different kinds. My parents both like classical. My mom really likes Mozart and Bach. My dad likes the russian composers. My brothers and I have been in a couple of musicals so we like show tunes. I like new rock and roll and old rock and roll like the Beatles. I'm like my mom and don't like jazz. It's boring. I have a 7year old brother that loves bagpipe music. My mom thinks he was a bagpiper in a past life. ADAM


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Firecat
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 06:24 PM

Am I young enough for you? I'm 17 years, 2 months and 18 days old! And if that's not specific, I don't know what is!!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Amergin
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 06:28 PM

Well, there are a few of us under 30 folks running around....though it does seem like that most everyone here has a set or two of false teeth and are already in the depends wearing stage....


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: mousethief
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 06:43 PM

I'd get you for that, Amergin, but I have to go to the restroom.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Spud Murphy
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 06:50 PM

Firecat, Seventeen years?......I got socks that are older'n that....

Spud


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Amergin
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 06:53 PM

Spud, maybe it is time to buy some new socks then....


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 07:12 PM

go for it Shona!!! and let us all know when your first CD comes out - I'll buy one!! In the meanwhile take all of it in as you can. I'll be over in the UK this summer with one of my groups, The Johnson Girls -- yep, an all female shanty group! We were at the Wadebridge festival last summer and as the newspaper article said we "took the festival by storm" If this year was anything like the last, it will be amazing! This summer we'll be at the Warwick Festival July 28-29 then Bodmin on August 3 and Sidmouth August 4-5! If there's any chance you'll be at any of the fesivals, come and see us and introduce yourself. We'd love to meet you. There's about a 20 year span of ages in our group.

Good luck to all of you young folkies


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 07:13 PM

Sam - good luck and I'll check out your website!!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 07:14 PM

and ARB-- keep giving folk a try - there's an amazing world of music out there -- I enjoy classical and even sang light opera when I was 19-21, love jazz and blues, but always seem to come home to folk. Just remember there's room for all kinds of music in your heart and mind -- keep an open mind and take it all in.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Chanteyranger
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 10:30 PM

I have to agree with Joy Bennett's definition. It's how you feel and how you relate to other people of various ages. I'm in my 40's, but count among my friends and musical cohorts those in their 20's on up, and a few younger than that.

About not enough folkies of your age out there, fear not! In the Celtic music here in the states, there is a whole slew of younger musicians who are making their mark. In the Boston area alone, Laura Risk, Laura Cortese, and Hanneke Cassel are some incredibly talented fiddlers, and in San Francisco, 14 year old Brittany Haas is a Bruce Molsky clone at old-timey fiddling, with her 17 year old sister Natalie a folk cellist who has recorded with Alasdair Fraser.(don't know if Molsky and Fraser are familiar names to you) That's just a small sampling of this new generation who are taking traditional music to new places, yet are mindful of tradition. You're in good company. Maybe you'll meet up with folkies your own age in any travels you might take - and don't forget about jamming with us 40-somethings! :-)

-chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Spud Murphy
Date: 23 Mar 01 - 11:47 PM

Cain't afford two.

Spud


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 10:16 AM

Amergin; the ones ones still have the energy to run around out there; the only surfing I've got the energy for these days is on the internet.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Firecat
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 04:47 PM

Spud, PLEASE buy some new socks if you've got ones that are older than me!!!!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 04:52 PM

Any of the young folkies who came in on this thread several years ago still out there to report on progress?


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 01 - 08:48 PM

Looks over the top of glasses at firecat

Seventeen - crikey! I've got things in my fridge older than you...


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Ferrara
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 02:21 PM

Well, an update on the kid who was 15 and sneering at Bill D's autoharp when this old thread was new....

Now almost 19 and a college freshman, he occasionally signs on the 'Cat as "GUEST,ShadowMonk" and has been seen at the Royal Mile Pub belting out sea songs. Even made it to NYC once for the Johnson Girls' shanty sing. He and his friends get together and sing for hours on end, occasionally in our downstairs area, while Bill and I are trying to get some sleep....

The main stimulus for this change in outlook was hearing The Pyrates Royale, who sing at the Maryland Renaissance Faire and have a mentality and style precisely suited to appeal to a high school boy (:-)-- sorry, Craig!). But by now he has quite a nice collection of folk (mostly shanties) including the Boarding Party, New Tradition, etc, and has sung at the Washington Folk Festival in a workshop about "Passing It On" [folk music, that is] within families.

Rita, mom of ShadowMonk


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Greyeyes
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 03:33 PM

Firecat, I too have socks older than you. I will never get rid of them as they are of sentimental value, being pairs I wore when I still played rugby. I still wear them occasionally for skiing and suchlike, they are serviceable, if battle-scarred. Being younger than Mousethief I still consider myself a young folkie.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Spud Murphy
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 03:56 PM

FC: Didn't know there were that many ole sots in the world didja?

Oh.....I'm sorry. I meant socks!

Spud


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: blt
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 04:46 PM

I remember feeling somewhat out of place in high school (mid-60s)because I listened to and preferred traditional folk music/dance to rock and roll. Even during those alleged folk revival years, which really didn't last that long, perceptions of what was acceptable and cool were fairly narrow. Not that folkies pay much attention to that kind of thing, in general it seems we're a group that thrives on every possible kind of margin.

My grandson, who's 8, loves to listen to Keb Mo and to Eileen Ivers. He's heard me play and sing since he was a newborn (and before that, actually)--I'm hoping that this will open up his ear and heart to traditional music. I began putting a guitar and a mandolin in his arms when he was 2 or 3, and whenever I can I bring him to acoustic instrument stores to try out various instruments--percussion, guitars, banjos (he thought the banjo was broken until I explained that it didn't have a sound hole like a guitar), flutes.

One reason I like open mikes is that the age range is often very broad and rarely remarked upon, it simply is. I can get an idea of what interests younger folk players. Folk music is often found where activists gather, and many involved in political work are young--late teens, early 20s. When I attended a musical evening in celebration of Joe Hill, although there were certainly quite a few geriatric rabble rousers present, there were also young politicos in the crowd (dressed as if they had walked off a "Grapes of Wrath" set), singing union songs as loudly as anybody else. Maybe it's now trendy to be nostalgic for the 1930s.

Because I work with adolescents as a therapist, I often meet young people who are very creative--poets, musicians, songwriters--and they tell me that music of any kind is very important to them. When I've played my guitar and sung some of the songs I love, the response I get is usually very emotional (even if they tell me they prefer rap or heavy metal). They may tell me (privately) that they actually like folk music, although they draw the line at Country music. In movement therapy groups, I've used Hank Williams--some kids just can't tolerate it, but others think it's funny--and everybody ends up moving. I've wondered what would happen if I played an Odetta recording, or some old work chants. I also use celtic music, as a bodhran is almost impossible to sit still to.

So, I think that folk music is a part of youth culture (it can't help but being so, actually)and part of what happens is the willingness of those of us who are aging to accept that, even though we may have accumulated a lot of knowledge, there's always more sprouting up from someplace new, and usually that means from someone younger.

blt


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Matt_R
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 05:00 PM

Freshly turned 22 years old here. I'm not as much as a folkie as I once was. My mind, being what it is, cannot stay immersed in one kinda of music for too long. Now I've eased into a mania over UK indie rock from the last 10 years. But still rolling all that I've learned before into what I play now...e.g. harmonicas and fiddles in Travis, Blur, JJ72, etc.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Ruthie A
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 05:05 PM

I'm young (13, apparently, but I try and deny all knowledge of the fact and pretend to be 16 instead). And I'm folkie! OK - not for as long as so other 13-yr-olds, (they were given 1/32 size fiddles at the age of 2 so I have an excuse), but I'm very musically active. I can appreciate any music that's thrown at me, because that's what I've been taught to do. I won't guarantee I'll like it, but I can tell good musicianship. I think that there's a problem with appreciation among my generation - I get laughed at for listening to a wide variety of music from folk, through folk jazz into blues. Why can't they understand that the work of a genius doesn't always need to incorporate synthesisers? I'll stop ranting now - this post is so negative! Sorry.

Ruthie


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 05:18 PM

blt: introduce your grandson to a "penny whistle", or flageolet. They're so easy to play, and very cheap.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 25 Mar 01 - 06:48 PM

Ruthie A -- keep listening and keep expanding your musical arena! It's a great gift to be a good listener.

And yes, an older folkie is saying - don't rule out those synths either -- as you have already found out - good music can come from just about anywhere.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Benjamin
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 04:30 AM

Is 21 young enough? Though I'm not sure how much of a folkie I am today though. My main musical interests are Classical, Blues, Soul, and World music. Music is music. I love playing it all!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 08:33 AM

21 is plenty young! Keep listening to it all -- and don't forget about the folk stuff!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Grab
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 08:47 AM

At first I thought I qualified, being 26. But then I saw the age of some of the posters, so maybe I'm not that much of a young folkie after all!

Graham.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 09:35 AM

And I'm only 25, but am developing wrinkles!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 04:08 PM

26, 25, you're still a young folkie -- and there are those much older -- still young at heart -- that counts too.

Let's hear some more of your stories of folk inspiration -- and let us know where on the planet you reside!!

keep the thread going.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Matt_R
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 04:34 PM

Well, I was listening to a bunch of Dylan this morning...does that count?


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 26 Mar 01 - 08:42 PM

When I got my first gig I was 20 years old. This July I'll be 60. Folk music (behind only my family) has been the mainstream of my life. All of the stages described in this thread are ones I have gone through and recall fondly.

How I envy all of you who are just now merging onto the road we've been walking. What a grand adventure you are starting on !

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: KAS
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 02:18 AM

Hey Joy,

You know I'm 32, but I got carded last week.

Thanks Mom!

Ken Schatz


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 03:12 AM

I wouldn'r call myself a folkie, I'm a jazz 'n' blues fiend with a passing interest in folk, but Herself bought me a T-shirt on my 50th birthday which read: "I'm not 50, I'm 18 with 32 years experience".
Pretty much sums me up, I feel about 25 inside , the other 30-odd years don't seem to have added any wisdom (or new jokes!)
RtS


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 04:09 AM

I'm 27....

but on Friday 13 April this year I turn 28...

GULP!

I've been into folk stuff for oooo gawd as long as I can remember... but after being classically trained at school for singing etc... I threw that aside in one big wanton sigh... And started playing and singing Irish, folk and all sorts... Anything apart from classical... It was always far too staid for my liking...

Actually, it should be nearly 28 but feel like I am 15 half the time....

grow up... me.... NEVER!!

Ella


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 08:16 AM

keep it coming!!!

And Ella -- I may be years older -- but have traveled much the same path --

Ken- I too remember when I was carded -- I was at Indiana University on a course -- I was 32 and I was carded in a bar -- I was thrilled!

But Ken -- I believe you may still be carded for many years to come -- you never get old - Peter Pan!!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST,Matt_R
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 10:34 AM

Hmmm...I've never been in a situation where I needed to be carded!!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 11:06 AM

what does carded mean????

My first gig with the band I am with now was.... erm... in 1997, it was a ceili... Before that I used to be the only female soprano in a male voice choir...lol

but what's carded???


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 11:13 AM

I expect it refers to the Colonials' quaint rule that you have to be 21 to enter a bar and have proof of age (ID card). On my only visit Stateside when I was 25 I was offended to be asked for ID or "Are you a vet?" before I was allowed in and had to carry my passport with me as they didn't accept the ravages of time already evident in my features!.
RtS


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 11:13 AM

I started playing with a group of musicians in sessions, and just carried on with them, we eventually formed a group... and here I am... still learning things...

I'm a mystery to the rest of my family, as no one else plays a note?

Ella


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST,Fibula Mattock
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 11:25 AM

RtS - you're lucky a passport worked for you. When I was in Chicago last year they wouldn't accept my friend's passport at the local supermarket on the grounds that it wasn't a state driver's licence and they didn't think they could accept it(?!?). After whingeing on for a while we got to see the manager who explained to the puzzled check-out guy that people from outside the area could buy beer too. We got pretty worried for a while. Then at another place they didn't ask me for ID, which I found quite annoying as there was a sign saying something like "We card all people who look under 30 years old". Thanks.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Amergin
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 12:36 PM

I'm 26 and I never get carded.....unless I'm at a place where the policy is to card everyone.....


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 01:37 PM

I am 30 , and I have long felt that my whole generation has no taste. I know no one who has any clue who Charlie Patton is, or Woody Guthrie. Most only Know Muddy waters as a name they heard before. They all know who Ozzy Osborne is though. Soooo Sad. I had to form my own band with musicians 10 or 15 years my elders to play this stuff, and if I get one more request for Lynyrd Skynrd when I am playing a great old Reverand Gary Davis song ......someones gonna get hurt. hehehe, kidding of course.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 05:21 PM

Go you Reverend Gary Davis Fans!!!

more???


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Amergin
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 05:22 PM

Hey, Elladarling, pretty soon you'll be right up there with Katdarling...agewise that is....


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: KAS
Date: 27 Mar 01 - 07:01 PM

I'm working on recording an amazing Rev. Gary Davis song for a new album - the three folk goddesses I asked to sing harmony on it are something like 29, 21, and 16, I believe. Had to. They rock.

Who's Ozzy Osborne? ...just kidding...

Ken


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 09:05 AM

Oh Nathan Sweetie darling... Watch it cheeky!!!

So... what's carding... and I'm probably not at all surprised Amerigin doesnt get carded.

:P


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Letty
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 10:25 AM

I've just turned 23! But I started listening folk at about 12.

Letty

Fancy seeing you here, Petra!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Amergin
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 01:10 PM

Ok, Ella, getting carded is when some one wants to buy cigarettes or booze and the shopping clerk or barman asks the customer for some picture ID such as a driver's license, to make sure that customer is old enough to buy those products, that is getting carded.....


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Erica Smith
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 02:56 PM

Joy, how funny -- you started this thread on my birthday -- 29. I started hanging out with you and your wicked, delightful homies 5 years ago. I know tons of young people outside of Pinewoods who love trad stuff -- I'm throwing it in their faces all the time! Little do they know, i'm just apeing what I hear from you guys, changing it (ahem) here and there . . . you oughta hear my P-funk version of "Johnny Come Down to Hilo."

Anywho . . .

The only conclusion I've come to about attracting the young'uns, at least in NYC, is to be where the action is, outside of the trad scene. Props to the Board for moving the open mic to Triad. I wouldn't have happened across you kids in the first place if you hadn't been at Fast Folk, which was a pretty popular hangout.

I did not grow up with trad folk. I learn everything from you. And I only found you because you were "out there," in the places where people hang around.

So glad I checked the Mudcat today.

love, Erica


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Erica Smith
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 03:05 PM

oh, and P.S. Joy: I also try to wear tight blouses when I gig. It don't hurt when yer trying to make new friends.

Sigh, E


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 28 Mar 01 - 05:18 PM

been there!! Done that!!! low cut too!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Ella who is Sooze
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 04:13 AM

Thank you darling Amergin, for explaining to me...

Well, I came over to Baltimore about 3 years ago, and I was then 25... So when I went to a bar, I was really shocked to be asked how old I was, when in the UK we can drink in bars...legally from the age of 18.

I actually got refused in a restaurant any booze because I didn't have any form of ID on me... I found it all bemusing really... And annoying, that they couldn't tell I was over 21.

I first started going to the pub in the UK, when I was 16... and only got asked for id on my 18th birthday, always was the tallest...

Oh well...


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 29 Mar 01 - 01:31 PM

more?


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Joy Bennett
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 10:49 AM

refresh!


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: English Jon
Date: 12 Apr 01 - 11:11 AM

Well, I'm 26 and fantastically imature....

English Jon


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: Claire M
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 08:49 AM

Petra,

I also think Maddy Prior is amazing, as does my dad, both with Steeleye & without. She has never disappointed me. Meeting her was the best night of my life. I think I've got permanent damage from where she hugged me – my god she's strong! -- but I don't care.

I am nearly 30. Unfortunately I am disabled & lots of people think I'll relate better to younger people, esp. carers. I find most of them intensely boring –- we don't do the same stuff, they don't know about any music I/we would call decent, & they don't want to know about it either – their loss, not mine. I do like some of theirs, but not enough to own it.

I was part of a disabled musicians' group for a while, which taught me a lot – we played via switches &/ keyboards. We played a concert, which didn't get recorded.

I also like Wicca – spells just sound like songs to me.


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST,mando-player-91
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 11:15 AM

I`m 22 and I have the same experience with my friends.Or people around my age.
-Shep


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Subject: RE: young folkies?
From: GUEST,Guest TF
Date: 18 Sep 12 - 02:14 PM

Petra, if you're still out there. What age is young now?


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