Annoying Bodhran, what to do?

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 03:02 PM

OK, I've heard some pretty annoying bodhrán from tim to time,and when I started playing sessions I may have even been the annoying bodhrán in question,but this thread is getting to be more annoying than any bodhrán ever could.

Rich

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 12:20 AM

Irish Abroad's website has detailed guide about how to behave at a session. Specifically, they suggest that if you play a Bodhran you are to ask they-who-conduct-the-session if it OK (a yankism) to join in. I got the impression that the answer would probably be no.

I was going to buy this really neat Bodhran with a Celtic knot design (made in Ireland) but realized that in Missouri's humidity it would go: plopp plopp floppitty slopp. This is a problem solver for you though. Have all who are annoyed by the hran player to chip in to send him over here. I live on the banks of the Missouri river where we have 120% humidity on a GOOD day. He'll pack it in, surely. Then, because I am a CLAWHAMMER BANJO player, I could dry it out and make a Boucher style tack-head fretless thumper.

It's been a long week

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: John J at home
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 07:43 PM

Yes it is Gnu, ah well, perhaps if you're ever over here!

John

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 03:23 PM

Sounds rather Brit to me. I am in Moncton, New Brunswick, Canada. Might be a bit too much of a stroll, carrying all me Hrans n all. But, I do appreciate the invite.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: John J at home
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 03:08 PM

Gottit Gnu, I read it and couldn't believe what I'd written! Gnu you'd be more than welcome at any session / singaround or whatever: The Bull's Head in Mobberley near Knutsford tonight (Wednesday) or The Railway in Heatley, near Lymm tomorrow night (Thursday). You could always come up to Alderley Edge @ 3.39am tomorrow for Solstice sunrise.

Cheers,

John (just off to the pub for a sing, a play and a pint)

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: gnu
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 03:00 PM

John J said...I suggest that playing a bodhran with virtually EVERY song (mostly unaccompanied) is inappropriate.

I know what you MEANT to say. That's why I have tears in my eyes from laughing so hard. I'm going to attend one of your sessions some day and bring all three of my Hrans and my bones too. But I will play when asked.

I forget who said it but, "Hran" is NOT "Star Trekkie". I am a Hranner and proud of it. Hey, there's another use for a Hran... in an episode of Star Trek.... the Enterprise goes into a time warp and is set upon by a spaceship with Celtic knotwork all over it, shaped like a Hran... every time the Captain tries to communicate with the bandits, they play Hran along to his message and it drives the crew mad. They even beam Flatley aboard and he taps the crap out of their warp drive.

Flatley ? No, that's getting toooo weird.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 02:47 PM

I think Julia said it as succinctly as possible.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: GUEST,Julia
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 01:50 PM

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: John J at home
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 04:34 AM

UB Dan, you and I are on a very similar wavelength! I would hate it if I went to a session, played a tune and nobody joined in.

At the end of the day what is needed is consideration for others. Joining in by singing or playing is fine as long as it is appropriate. I suggest that playing a bodhran with virtually EVERY song (mostly unaccompanied) is inappropriate.

Paul S.: Humour is indeed an ideal way to calm things down, if we laugh at the situation together it reduces the potential for further ill feeling and hopefully gets forgotten in the mists of time. Great so long as he doesn't forget to ease off on the bodhran!

Cheers,

John John

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: GUEST,Paul S
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 12:56 AM

Hey John.

I think you handled the whole situation properly. Since he has stopped playing with you, it would be a little presumptuous to pursue matters any further - others MAY enjoy his accompaniment (doubtful) - and it would probably make you look a little immature and petty.

If you try to do anything else - i.e. talk to the management; talk to the other players; bring up your complaint again; leave the session - you will just remind everybody of an uncomfortable incident, making them uncomfortable all over again.

Speaking to him civilly in the first place, will probably motivate others to do the same, and he may get the message eventually.

In group situations, once is usually enough.

Paul

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: 8_Pints
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 09:00 PM

John,

Perhaps a little gentle humour might ease the situation ..

"I don't know how I'm going to manage without you, but I'd like to try!" *BG*

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Bernard
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 07:53 PM

With respect, UB Dan, there is a vast difference between a 'session' and a 'singaround'.

A session is an 'all in together' situation, but a singaround is primarily a one-at-a-time scenario where each takes their turn.

I am a 'resident' at the club that JJ is referring to, in case clarification is needed...

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: sophocleese
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 05:50 PM

Okay UBDan I understand what you're saying now. The assholish part, that pissed me off, was the implication of selfisheness and singularity on John's part. I didn't get the same impression of blanket statements about never playing along but that some level of sensitivity is required even in sessions. The way the situation was presented that sensitivity was lacking on the part of the bodhran player. We were responding to John's request for assistance and support we may have answered differently if the bodhran player had posted asking what to do with a singer who cannot play along with his bodhran. Kind of an interesting idea actually...hmmm.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 05:03 PM

John, I'll be honest, I support you in this matter. I agree with you, completely. I did not read every single post, but from what I read I gathered that everyone was agreeing with you, but not for the right reason. I think asking him not to play on a particular song is perfectly acceptable, but I do not think that it should be expected that every person should take turns playing solo at a session. This is not what I would expect and not what anyone should expect. I guess there are other gatherings where this is perfectly acceptable, but if you walk into a session and say..every body be quiet, its my turn, listen to me...I would think you were in the wrong. You'll notice I didn't post any reply until the thread had grown, and that is mainly because I do agree with how you handled and are planning to handle this specific type of situation. I just take exception to the several posts saying any sort of playing along is rude.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: John J at home
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 04:48 PM

Hi UB Dan, and thanks for your input.

Thanks also Sophoclese for your support!

The problems I have with this bodhran player are many, but the main problem I have is he actually puts me off singing.

Last week I completely lost the thread of my song due to the intrusive manner in which the bodhran was played.

In addition to that, the bodhran wasn't played in the rhythm I was singing. When I apologised to the guy later in the evening for having to ask him to stop, and also giving my reasons, his response was that my timing was at fault. I thought that a little unreasonable, but chose not to pursue the matter and to walk away from the situation in an amicable way as possible.

The fact that all other musicians remain quiet when I (or all the other unaccompanied singers at the club for that matter) sing and he chooses to bang away on his bodhran is barely worth mentioning in comparison.

There is no doubt that a bodhran can go really well with many performances, but I'm not good enough a singer to deal with an out of time, interfering noise.

I hope that puts you in the picture.

John

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 04:45 PM

Listening is part of music and it may be true that a musical free for all does not result in the best music...but these sessions are often musical and free for all. I understand the point about the bodhrain not being suited to all songs and that bad playing of any sort is disruptive to the entire dynamic...but, it is a session. I don't see any difference between showing up to a tradition session with a Marshall stack and an electric guitar loaded with distortion and showing up to a session to perform solo. It is a social event which is designed to get people to play together. If people are performing individually, that is called an open mike night or I guess maybe a song circle. Yes people take turns choosing songs or playing leads...but if you want to play alone than go ahead and play alone. There is another thread out now talking about songs that only you like...the guy who started it is talking about songs that he enjoys but doesn't perform much because his audience doesn't react well. He is suiting his music to his audience...this is a good thing. In a session, the audience is also your new band...suit your music to them. I'm not saying every song has to be appropriate for 15 bodhrains joining in, but maybe you could stay away from songs that nobody can join in on.

To be fair, I agree that the drum could sit out slower songs or inappropriate songs, but I also think its silly to shopw up to a session and expect everyone to sit and listen to you...by yourself...get a solo gig, go busking, invite a friend over to watch you, sing in the shower...but if you are at a socail session you should expect to play with people. Teach and learn..teach and learn...but don't exclude. Maybe do a song once and then ask people to join in after they get an idea of the tune, but if nobody can join in, save it for another time.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: sophocleese
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 03:56 PM

UB Dan, that's an assholish thing to say. At a place where other people can take turns being in the limelight its reasonable to wish to have your turn in the limelight. Just because you have an instrument does not mean that it HAS to be played on every song. Sometimes the music is served better when there is less of a musical free-for-all. Listening is part of music. The bodhran player in this instance sounds like the selfish nit who cannot stand to be quiet.

In any group of people there you can have many options from one person singing or playing to everybody singing and playing. Why limit the group to one particular dynamic? It sounds idiotic to me.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: jmdornan
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 02:42 PM

MMARIO - you are the least of my worries.. I enjoy performing with you :) and no I 've never been able to spell but can sing in 3 languages does that count for something?

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 02:00 PM

Hey John J...no offense but it seems like the problem is that you want everyone to sit quietly and pay attention to you performing by your self. I guess this is fine for some sort of pre-arranged song club event, but if this is a session then let him play...or stop performing songs that you don't want anybody to play along on. The other alternative is to sing the song in your car on the way over, and get it out of the way before you show up to a social event. The only other thing I can think of is to get yourself a gig somewhere by yourself where you don't need to be annoyed by other people who also wish to play and can still have everybody pay attention to you.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: John J
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 12:59 PM

Peter: the reason Allan lost his thread due to Boddington's Bitter was really that he had been out celebrating his wedding anniversary with his wife.

I've not seen Allan wearing a tie before, let alone a blazer! Congrats once again Allan! I would agree, the last thing we want is a beer being withdrawn! I'll be on the guest or the Landlord on Thursday 'cos I'm going on my bike. BTW, what time are you arriving at Alderley Edge on midsummer sunrise? And what date do you regard as midsummer? I was going up on Thursday 21st. John

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Midchuck
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 12:48 PM

"Boddingtons Bitter"...What a great name! I may have to journey across the Atlantic just to have some.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: GUEST,Shantyman
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 12:23 PM

Jonn

The suggestion that the club organiser should interviene seems a good one! Perhaps he'll then be too busy to play guitar throughout unaccompanied performances. Perhaps the bodhran could be given to the club organiser. On the subject of loosing the thread of the song, I lost it last week due to the intervention of Boddintons Bitter; but I'm not going to ask the landlord to refrain from selling it! By the way thanks for remembering the words for me

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: MMario
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 08:49 AM

ACK! hi Jill!

She knows whereof she speaks , people, 'cause she has to put up with *me*

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: John J
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 08:44 AM

Nice words Jill, I've started to blush!

Gratefull thanks & best wishes,

John

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: jmdornan
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 08:38 AM

John, beside the fact that you handled the situation as a true professional should, don't worry too much about him. You can always ask him up on stage to do a number by himself, so many audiences members think it's cool to play along, but would never get up on a stage themselves. Sometime they need to know why you are the one getting paid to be on the stage :) Of course this is a judgement call, because he may not get it, even if he screws up on stage...but we have all been through this where your audience thinks they can do what you do. I work in interactive street theater, and also am a musician in the forum, THAT gets interesting. Everyone you meet has played some instrument way back in high school, and wants to work with you, you can only be poliet for so long before you have to explain it's your career annd you are very serious about it. I also know it's very hard to be a a musician starting out, because so many people say they can do thing they really can't.

Good luck Jill

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: John J
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 04:20 AM

Ah but can he spell?? ;-)

*BG*

John

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From:
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 10:29 PM

ask him if he knws why a bodhran playe is like a foot message

ecause a foot masage bucks up the feet

and a bodahn player cks the beat

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: GUEST,joe
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 10:12 PM

i have nothing to add; i just want to be the 100th entry. thanx

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 09:42 PM

A terrorist goes into a pub with an UZI and demands, "Are there any fiddlers here?". The one tries to hide his fiddle behind him, but to no avail. The terrorist sees it and asks "Bluegrass or Irish?". The nervous young man stammers, "Ir-rish". The terrorists points the gun at him and orders him to play. The fiddler does his best and scrapes through a reel and the terrorist demands he keep going. The fiddler plays through his entire reperetoire before the terrorist is satisfied...........


................and guns down the 50 bodhránists playing along!!


Rich
I figured it would hurt a lot less if I posted it myself than if someone else did.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 06:25 PM

How many would you need to change a light bulb?

WHAT DID YOU SAY?

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 06:12 PM

and what would you call a roomfull of bodhran players?

anything you want, they wont hear you!

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: English Jon
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 05:11 AM

How about, you get everyone in the session to bring one along, no other instruments. It'll be a crap evening, but you'll only have to do it once.

EJ

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: John J
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 03:40 AM

Thanks noreen and everybody else! You've all been brilliant with your support and understanding.

I've got back into work this morning and found a number of emails, some from club attendees (we don't have members) who I didn't realise knew about the mudcat. There support was very surprising and most welcome.

Bernard's post & email has explained that 'something will be said'. It would appear that unwanted accompaniment has been a problem for others, as so many of you have so wisely said.

Thanks again!

John

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Brían
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 10:29 PM

I was thinking of this thread at my séissiún today when I came in and saw a BODHRÁN AND NOBODY PLAYING IT in my usual seat.
Brían.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 08:28 PM

Well, this was a treat to cruise through! Well done!

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: GUEST,shortbuckle
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 07:40 PM

Guitar players get the same frosty looks at most sessions and with good reason, Irish traditional music is not harmonic (mostly)and needs special care when it comes to accompaniment. Leave the 3rd out of the chords lads.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: fiddlergirl
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 07:21 PM

I've got two younger brothers, so I can tell you from experience that a bodhran does NOT make a good medieval sheild, the tipper/sword will just go right through it... perhaps you could don some shining armor and honouraby defend the ears of your listeners?

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: GUEST,joe
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 05:03 PM

hmm, a bodhran. that's shaped something like a frizbe, isn't it?

there once was a fool with a bodhran, who didn't know who he was botherin' 'til i finished a mug, got a pick-ax and dug a pit and threw him and his father in.

happy fathers' day, to whom it may concern.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: John J at home
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 01:20 PM

Thanks Rich. Thanks Bernard. Thanks everyone. What a brilliant bunch of mates you ALL are. I'll never meet the vast majority face to face which is a shame. Thanks again everyone.

John (the much happier)

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Noreen
Date: 17 Jun 01 - 06:38 AM

Very well said, Rich.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Rich(bodhránai gan ciall)
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 11:26 PM

You know, a bodhrán is a rhythm instrument particularly well suited to play along with lively dance rhythms. Anything else is a rare exception and if done at all should be left to someone experienced enough to pull it off. If this guy just bought his drum, it should be a year before it sees the dim light of a pub or indeed any light except where he practices, and where he takes lessons.

The only songs I tend to play along with are "Sí Do Mhaimeo" (which is in a straight jig rhythm) and "Os Liostail Mé le Sairsint"(which is a march) and both only when sung by my friend and former band mate, Peter, who would actually be upset if I didn't join in. The proper bodhrán accompaniment to a ballad or an air or a waltz is to put your drum in your case, cock your head slightly to one side, listen intently and enjoy.

The same could be said for automatically singing along with someone who starts to sing a solo.

On the other hand, I've seen people come to a session geared towards playing together, and want to sing and play solo all night.

The bodhrán is really just too easy to be an asshole with, and therefore demands the player to be even more sensitive of the players around him than players of most other instruments. I was at a couple of sessions while on a visit to Chicago last year, where one of the session leaders commented that it must be tough to be a bodhran player and have to prove you're not one of those "Bodhran-owners"(His term, not mine) every time you play someplace new. It was at a session I would have not heard about to begin with if he hadn't been happy with my playing and more importantly, my etiquette the night before.

Rich

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Bernard
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 08:23 PM

The problem is resolved.

Without going into unnecessary detail, the person in question has upset a few too many people, and will be discretely spoken to at the next available opportunity.

You have my word on that.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: John J at home
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 04:37 PM

Thanks 42, with a name like that you were bound to have an answer!

I would love the club organiser to get involved in this valuable discussion, but I don't believe he would. Whilst I think he has an attitude of 'live and let live' (which I strongly agree with), I don't think club etiquette is something he's too aware of. The organiser, a competant guitarist and singer / songwriter, is not a traditional performer. Having said that, he's been to other clubs, played along in sessions so he should know the score.

I would also dearly love the bodhranist (eh?....you know what I mean) to be involved in the discussion. Who knows, perhaps the next post to this thread!

Please don't think I want to stop none traditional performers going to the club. Although my preference is for traditional music / singing, a club that doesn't allow all types of performers is a club that would be very boring. A couple of years ago the club was visited by a VERY good singer performing material from musicals. Not folk at all. But he performed, was applauded well for his good singing. He was made welcome....we haven't seen him since, but there you go.

Getting back to the start of this thread, the bodrhanist concerned has fans, and therefore support in the club. He plays guitar, sings funny songs, and entertains. It's a difficult situation to deal with.

If it doesn't get resolved (and I'm not going to say anything at the club, not unless he starts banging his bodhran to my singing again) I'll just not bother with the club again.

Cheers all,

John

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 04:24 PM

Much better to tell someone to pack it in, in as friendly and courteous manner as feels fitting, rather than bottle it up and expect "the organiser" to muscle in as the figure of authority.

It's not hard to tell when someone welcomes accompaniment or not, and if you get it wrong only a pillock would get upset about getting hushed. It happens all the time - a raised hand is enough.

What I find awkward is when I'm singing something I've only recently learnt, or only recently made up, and someone playing a melody instrument jumps in and plays what they assume isn't right tune, only maybe it isn't. But there's no problem in just saying "don't join in on this this time round, I'm still running it in!".

And God preserve us from generalised rules like "no joining in" - they take the guts and spontaneity out of a session.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Mr Red
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 04:16 PM

This is a person thing not a bodhran problem.
I have seen and suffered many a banjo and guitar intrusion as an a capella singer
I had to listen to a person at my regular club harmonise to every song with diminished sevenths all night. No amount of polite humour alters him. I for one breathed a sigh of relief when he joined a West Gallery Quire.
the bad news was that they knew more tuneful sevenths than he could shake a head at and they had more egoes than he could surmount. At the club the organisers have very definite and opinionated views about etiquette but then he is one of them. Ten years later I now live far enough away to dissaude me from visiting, but regulars include some very nice people who made the club vibrant when I was going through divorce, how can I desert them entirely? I chose to suffer his harmonies, I sing to give them enjoyment and if thats what they want, so be it. If I don't feel I can enjoy it any given I have to decline.

If you can't enrol the consensus of the body of the club, blame the club & go elsewhere. In the Uk we are blessed with such richness of sessions/clubs.
convince the bodhran that there is a SESSION down the road and see if he discovers where he should really be going.

AND what is the problem with two bodhrans? both mine are red.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: GUEST,forty two
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 10:41 AM

"His reaction was to say that it was my fault I didn't sing in time."

I speak as one new to the club but also a bodhran player (of many years experience) and an unaccompanied singer. Generally I believe that it is not a good thing to mouth off at another musician - I am not saying that I haven't done it! Certainly on many occasions I have had to suggest to other precussion players that a particular session is not big enough for more than one percussive instrument at a time and suggest that turns be taken.

As for accompanying songs - I would never do it unless asked to or unless I knew the singer very well. And as for unaccompanied songs. It is usual and, I think, desireable for a singer to go off beat in a slow ballad accentuating phrases and lines. Think also of a slow air played by a solo instrument; quite often a phrase is stretched hence going off beat and beneficial to the tune.

While maybe undesireable, I believe that you were well within the limits of session etiquette to stop mid tune and have words. And maybe now this subject will be brought up at sessions all over and talked about freely in the open so ALL musicians can take on board that there is such a thing as session etiquette.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Bernard
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 10:15 AM

Hmmm... it's a tricky one... I'll see what I can do.

Oh, and 'Hello Mum!' from me an' all!!

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: GUEST,Yvonne
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 09:57 AM

Bernard you are totally correct ofcourse but what is the solution if he is not only spoiling the performace of the performer but spoiling the listeners pleasure as well??

Surely the organiser of the club should point out his bad manners?

In short how is he to be discouraged???

Hello Mum from me too.

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: Bernard
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 08:23 AM

To be fair, I suppose the recalcitrant bodhran player hasn't spent a lot of time in folk clubs - I think ours was his first dabbling.

Two bodhrans? Well, to be fair, one was his wife's. Maybe they are starting a band called 'Bodhran Bodhran'!!? (Duran Duran, geddit?!)

If he found the affair embarrassing, he should think himself very fortunate he didn't try it on in some other clubs I could mention! They'd have had a Ritual Bodhran Burning!! Such behaviour is seriously frowned upon!

It's not so much a 'right or wrong' situation, more what is acceptable behaviour and what isn't. A song rarely lasts more than four minutes (though it can often seem longer!), and a performer has only that time to themselves, so to speak. Sadly, there are those who need to 'hog the limelight', and I admit I've been guilty of that myself in the past - then again, haven't we all? That's how we learn... some of us! ;o)

Joining in is only valid if it adds to the performance in a positive way, which is acceptable to both the performer and the audience. It is not valid if it detracts from the performance, overshadows it, or brings it to a halt. It effectively becomes heckling, and is open to be treated as such.

However, I feel there is a real danger of this incident escalating out of all proportion, and I would entreat all those who are directly involved to let the matter drop, before it gets out of hand.

And that includes me...

JJ has my full support - the situation became intolerable, and he's not the only one to suffer. But treating childish behaviour with more of the same is a recipe for disaster...

TTFN

Subject: RE: Annoying Bodhran, what to do?
From: GUEST,Yvonne
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 07:38 AM

Love the replies. Suggest everyone joins John on Thursday night and carry out their own solutions! Lets Get him JJ.