Napoleon's retreat

Subject: Napoleon's Retreat
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 05:46 PM

The Prince Albert (Stroud UK every Mon) sessionists were playing an occ Sunday session and played the tune Napoleon's Retreat, remarking that today (18th) was the anniversary of said retreat.

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Little Hawk
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 05:53 PM

And?.....???

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Matt_R
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 05:55 PM

Am I supposed to be happy about this?

Vive L'Empereur!

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: kendall
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 06:15 PM

His retreat from where? Not Russia, that was in the fall, October I think.

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 06:15 PM

I tell a lie it was Bonapart's Retreat, not that a bodhran player like me would know the difference between his arm or his Elba.

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 06:20 PM

Isn't bastille day in early June, also?

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 06:20 PM

Sorry. July 14.

Slinking away.....

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Spud Murphy
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 06:33 PM

Able was I ere I saw Elba.

Spud

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: mousethief
Date: 18 Jun 01 - 11:57 PM

Then what happened, Spud?

The retreat from Russia was indeed in the fall.

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Spud Murphy
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 12:16 AM

I think Josephine ran off with his old pal, Indrome, to the tune of 'Come Josephine, in my flying machine, we'll go up, so high, up, so high....'

Spud

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 03:33 AM

I didn't think Napoleon ever got as far as Stroud.

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Lyndi-loo
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 03:50 AM

I think it was the retreat from Waterloo. The battle of Waterloo was in June

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Banjer
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 04:16 AM

I'm not really up on the history of France, so cannot help in this discussion. My question: Is not Bonaparte's Retreat also known as the Caledonian March?

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Banjer
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 05:30 AM

On second thought, No it's not the same.....

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: kendall
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 06:22 AM

I thought he was captured by the English at Waterloo. He found himself surrounded by the British in front, and the Prussians from behind.

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Wolfgang
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 07:10 AM

No, after the battle of Waterloo (18th of June, 1815), Napoleon returned to Paris with the rest of his troops and surrendered himself to the English in Paris on July 15th, 1815).

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Edain42
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 10:31 AM

All I can tell u is the first few lines of a song a local group to me sing.

It was on the 18th day of June Napolean did advance The choicest troops that he could raise Within the bounds of France Thier glittering eagles shone around A terror to their foe But Britain's Lions, tore their wings On the plains of Waterloo.

That would imply that the battle was indeed the 18th of June and the retreat from Russia was during late autumn/winter as snow was one of the factors he was balting against as well as hunger etc.

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: RWilhelm
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 11:45 AM

Anybody remember Plato's Retreat?

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: mousethief
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 11:48 AM

The invasion of Russia was in 1812.

Of course there was also one in 1709 and 1941.

Looks like once per century (for the last 3), some idiot takes it into his mind to invade Russia from the West. When will they ever learn?

Alex

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Pinetop Slim
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 01:02 PM

Thanks for the info, Mr. Red. Bonaparte's Retreat is a fiddle tune I've always wanted to learn. I guess they could have called it 18th of June, the way Battle of New Orleans is set to Eighth of January. I've heard that Glen Campbell set words to Bonaparte's Retreat. Any 'catters know where same might be heard?

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Mr Red
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 02:47 PM

Boney never got to Stroud, Caractacus got here first.
I will ask at the session one night for further info. I'd like to hear a Glen Campbell version too. The tune sounded English & they play mostly "Englishish" music, and proud of the fact. I only sneak in with my bodhran 'cos I play quietly (I think).

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Chicken Charlie
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 03:32 PM

The Early bird got the worm. I believe I do, but not a song about it.

My other problem is that I read the first post in haste and mentally transposed an anniversary on the 18th to the 18th anniversary, which left me somewhat chronologically challenged.

CC

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 08:02 PM

Pinetop Slim - Glen Campbell did record "Boneparte's Retreat" a few years ago.

If I'm not mistaken, however, Pee Wee King put the words to it back in the late 40's or early 50's. He's best known for co-writing the "Tennessee Waltz".

I believe King was also responsible for adding the arabic sounding part to the old fiddle tune, which I assumed was "traditional" for a long time, until a few people in the know disavowed me of that grevious error !

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Pinetop Slim
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 09:38 PM

Thanks, Les B, that should help me track down a version of the lyrics. On the arabic part, I had heard Doc Watson credited with adding "Little Egypt" as a C part to the tune; figured whoever did it was making a musical joke about Bonaparte's conquest of Egypt.

Subject: Bonaparte's retreat
From: Les B
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 12:11 AM

Pinetop Slim - as I remember them, the lyrics are something like:

Met the girl I love in a town way down in Dixie
'Neath the stars above, prettiest girl I ever did see

So I held her in my arms, and told her of her many charms
Held her while the fiddles played the Bonaparte's Retreat

(arabic part} Oh the world was bright as I held her on that night
And I heard her say, "please don't go away"

So I held her in my arms, and told her of her many charms
Held her while the fiddles played the Bonaparte's Retreat

As I remember, Glenn Campbell's version simply changed the instrument reference from "fiddle" to "guitar" to "bag pipes" etc. Campbell then played an instrumental break on each instrument mentioned.

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Pinetop Slim
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 11:36 AM

Many thanks

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: GUEST,Ole Bull
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 10:17 AM

Has anyone the history on this tune (not on Napolean please)such as where it first appeared, collected or published, or variant names? I am interested the same on Eighth of January.

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: Mr Red
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 03:10 PM

Update on the Battle of Waterloo - New Scientist - ever mindful of the topicality of stories published an article on the subject (last week's issue). Napoleon was said to have retreated. AND.....
the declared winners (in this article) were orthodontists. With 50,000 otherwise healthy young specimens dead there was a rich harvest of TEETH for false dentures.
have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: Napoleon's retreat
From: GUEST,Les B
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 03:45 PM

OLe Bull - this is what Ceolas Fiddler's Companion site has - you can probably find Eighth of January there too.

BONAPARTE'S RETREAT [4] (Brisead Bonapart). Irish, Set Dance. E Minor. Standard. AAB (O'Neill/1850 & 1001): AABB (O'Neill/Krassen). O'Neill (Krassen), 1976; pg. 221. O'Neill (1850), 1903/1979; No. 1789, pg. 335. O'Neill (1001 Gems), 1986; No. 980, pg. 168 (the tune is mistakenly printed a set lower {placing it in an unplayable D Major}). Island ILPS9432, The Chieftains - "Bonaparte's Retreat" (1976).

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: GUEST,barry x
Date: 13 Dec 03 - 06:11 PM

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: Lighter
Date: 23 Sep 19 - 07:37 PM

Marcus Woodcock, A Southern Boy in Blue, ed. K. W. Noe (Knoxville: U. T. Press, 1996), p. 17 [written 1865, ref. to Ninth Kentucky Vol. Inf., autumn, 1861]:
        
        "A courier was immediately sent forward to order the Infantry to turn back [from an advance on Glasgow, Ky.] and we were soon returning to Tompkinsville. Captain Lankford proposed that we should have the band to play Boneparte’s Retreat and I believe it was played though I am not certain."

My guess is that "Bonaparte Crossing the Alps" or "Bonaparte Crossing the Rhine" was the tune he had in mind. (The Stepp-style "BR" probably wouldn't work with a brass band!)

Lankford must have had wry sense of humor.

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 24 Sep 19 - 03:29 AM

The 8th of January was the date of the battle of New Orleans and the great tune named after it.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: Jack Campin
Date: 24 Sep 19 - 03:36 AM

Napoleon's Retreat from Glasgow certainly has potential.

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: GUEST,nickp (cookieless)
Date: 24 Sep 19 - 03:55 AM

Didn't Mike Harding write 'Napoleon's Retreat from Wigan' or is that a product of a fevered imagination?

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 25 Sep 19 - 10:15 AM

From: Edain42 Date: 19 Jun 01 - 10:31 AM

"All I can tell u is the first few lines of a song a local group to me sing.

It was on the 18th day of June Napoleon did advance
The choicest troops that he could raise Within the bounds of France
Their glittering eagles shone around A terror to their foe
But Britain's Lions, tore their wings On the plains of Waterloo."

This is from the broadside Battle of Waterloo.

Chorus; With Wellington we'll go, With Wellington we'll go,
For Wellington commanded us, on the Plains of Waterloo.

Subject: RE: Tune Req: with wellington we'll go
From: GUEST,John Foxen Date: 13 Nov 13 - 10:36 AM

"Roy Palmer in his splendid The Rambling Soldier gives an earlier version of the song "Written on the late famous victory obtained over the French Army under the command of Lord Wellington on the 22 and 23 of July 1812." The tune is the Brags of Washington -- near enough Nutting Girl -- and the chorus is "With Wellington we'll go, with Wellington we'll go, Across the main o'er to Spain and fight our daring foe.""

This refers to the Battle of Salamanca.

The words have the same metre as The Warlike Lads of Russia; they may well have originally shared the same tune too. Nic Jones found this broadside in the Harkness Collection in Preston and set it to his own tune;

From Mainly Norfolk; Nic Jones sings The Warlike Lads of Russia

When Bonaparte from Poland into Muscovy went,
With all his troops and all his men, their minds were fully bent
For to take the Russian country, oh, they were full employ'd,
But the Russians fought against them and they soon did them destroy.

Chorus; Oh, the warlike lads of Russia, oh, they fought all in one mind;
Made Bonaparte to run and leave his troops behind.

The tune re-emerged once again after the Peterloo massacre of 1819.
From Traditional Tunes, Frank Kidson (collector and editor), 1891;

With Henry Hunt we'll go, my boys, with Henry Hunt we'll go
We'll mount the cap of Liberty in spite of Nadin Joe

Kidson considers that the tune was originally The Jolly Ploughboy, found in Bunting's Irish Airs, 1840.

Henry Hunt also had a link with Preston, where he was elected MP in 1830 defeating the future British Prime Minister Edward Stanley. Preston was probably alone in having universal male suffrage at that time. The Great Reform Act of 1832 actually restricted voting rights in Preston.

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Sep 19 - 10:25 AM

Thanks, henryp. Nic Jones popularized "The Warlike Lads."

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 19 - 11:33 AM

For nickp (cookieless)

Napoleon's Retreat from Wigan

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 25 Sep 19 - 03:05 PM

Not found.

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Sep 19 - 03:07 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rv_Cp5XGJQc

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Sep 19 - 04:07 PM

"Bonaparte's escape from Russia - A New Song" (Harding [b 25] 246)

http://ballads.bodleian.ox.ac.uk/static/images/sheets/10000/09364.gif

                  BONAPARTE’S ESCAPE FROM RUSSIA
                                          A New Song

When Bonaparte from Russia into Moscow went,
With his troops in full glee and their minds fully bent,
To take the Russian country O they were fully employ’d,
But Russia fought against them and soon they were destroyed.

                The warlike lads of Russia,
                   They fought all in one mind,
                Made Bonaparte to run,
                     And leave his troops behind.

When from Moscow city the Russians did retreat,
Neither Boney nor his men not any thing could get.
When from Moscow city the Russians they took flight,
They set the town on fire and burnt it down that night.
                     The warlike lads, &c.

Burnt all away before them, and every foot they set,
Left Boney near his army no shelter could they get.
Damn it, says bold Russia, I’ll have you in a crack,
I’ll make you remember this before you do get back.
                      The warlike lads, &c.

So in a little while O the Russians did attack,
Against Boney and his army, kill’d, took, and drove ‘em back,
But the action being so hot, from left, right, front and rear,
O damn it, says poor Boney, I’ll stay no longer here.
                      The warlike lads, &c.

So off went Bonaparte as hard as he could ride,
The poor Frenchmen they looked after him, saying ‘tis very hard,
You should bring us all up here, and leave us in such a state,
You ought to stop along with us and share the same fate.
                      The warlike lads, &c.

But away went Boney as hard as he could run,
O’er hedges and ditches, left horses, men, and guns,
His boxes and matches, ammunition, and [illegible] too,
He left them all behind him, what else could he do?
                        The warlike lads, &c.

There full 80,000 men from me they’ve killed [or?] ta’en.
Besides 10,000 horses fine and 2,000 pieces [illegible],
But yet I must to Paris, to France I must
For if I don’t I may be sure they’ll teach me [a new?] dance.
                        The warlike lads, &c.

Now to conclude this wonderous tale and finish my song,
Boney’s men in Russia swore they wish they’d hold of him.
The cruelest death they’d put him to that e’er [a?] man befel,
Stop, stop, says Boney I’m now clear of you all.
                The warlike lads, &c.

Angus, Printer

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Sep 19 - 05:28 PM

"To France I must advance" ?

"To France I must at once" ?

This thread gives a slightly different, apparently more legible broadside:

https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=18702

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 25 Sep 19 - 08:58 PM

This may fill some gaps. From Mainly Norfolk;
Nic Jones sings The Warlike Lads of Russia

Nic Jones recorded both this ballad and The Bonnie Banks o' Fordie in September 1974 for the benefit LP for Fred Woods' magazine Folk Review, The First Folk Review Record. According to the sleeve notes, "the words are from a broadside in the Harkness Collection at Preston; and the tune is collated from various traditional sources, with contributions from Nic Jones".

When Bonaparte from Poland into Muscovy went,
With all his troops and all his men, their minds were fully bent
For to take the Russian country, oh, they were full employ'd,
But the Russians fought against them and they soon did them destroy.

Chorus (repeated after each verse):
Oh, the warlike lads of Russia, oh, they fought all in one mind;
Made Bonaparte to run and leave his troops behind.

Now when from Muscovy City, oh, the Russians did retreat,
Neither Bonaparte nor all his men not any thing could get.
When from Muscovy City, oh, the Russians took their flight,
They set the town on fire and they burnt it down that night.

Now in a little while, oh, the Russians did attack,
Against Bonaparte and all his men, they killed and took and drove 'em back.
But the action being so hot, from right and left and front and rear,
“Oh, damn you,” says poor Bonaparte, “I'll stay no longer here.”

And away then went poor Bonaparte as fast as he could ride.
And the poor Frenchmen looked after him, saying, “Oh it's very hard
But to think you'd lead us all up here, and leave us to our fate.
Oh, you ought to stop along with us and help us in our state.”

And away then went poor Bonaparte as fast as he could run,
Over hedges and o'er ditches; he left horses, men, and guns.
His boxes and his matches, ammunition waggons too,
He left them all behind him; what else could poor Boney do?

Says he, “80,000 men from me they've kill'd and they've taken,
Besides 10,000 horses fine and 200 pieces of cannon;
And never more to Paris or French land I dare advance,
For if I do, I may be sure they'll teach me how to dance.”

So it's to conclude and thus to try and finish off my song,
Oh, Boney's men in Russia swear they wish they'd hold of him.
And the cruelest death they'd put him to that e'er a man befell.
“Oh, curse you,” says poor Bonaparte. “I'm clear of you all.”

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: Lighter
Date: 25 Sep 19 - 10:26 PM

Thanks, henryp. Jones seems to have altered very little from the broadside he consulted.

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: Lighter
Date: 26 May 20 - 10:15 AM

Baltimore Patriot and Mercantile Advertiser (July 21, 1826), p. 2:

            EXECUTION OF BEAUCHAMP -THE TRAGEDY WOUND UP

We learn from the Frankfort (Ky.) Commentator, that Beauchamp, the assassin of Col. Sharp, was executed according to his sentence on Friday, 7th inst. An idea had gone abroad, that he would address the people, at the gallows; but he made no attempt of the kind; he was evidently, too feeble, probably rendered so by his attempts to commit suicide, by taking laudanum and by stabbing himself. Soon after arriving at the place of execution, he observed that he wished to die; and requested the Music which belonged to two independent companies, which had been called out to preserve order, should play "Bonaparte's Retreat from Moscow;" which having heard, he desired the officers to perform the execution,--and took his death.

The tragedy of the murder of Col. Clark only required a little more variety of plot, scenery, and persons, to make it completely Shakespearean.
. . .

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: Lighter
Date: 26 May 20 - 10:39 AM

In 1929 the Skillet Lickers recorded "Bonaparte's Retreat" in a way easily identifiable as a Bonaparte-y version of "John Henry." In fact, if I hadn't known the title, I'd have thought it *was* "John Henry."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_vAbEYpQAk

Was some 19th century Southern "BR" the source of the "John Henry" tune?

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: cnd
Date: 26 May 20 - 02:19 PM

I can hear similarities to John Henry in the version recorded by A. A. Gray, but not nearly to the same extent.

Unfortunately the origins of both tunes are a bit fuzzy, so it's hard to say anything for certain.

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 26 May 20 - 02:35 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yeQucos9-M

William H Shepp, 1937.

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: Lighter
Date: 26 May 20 - 02:53 PM

Kentuckian Stepp's version, recorded by Alan Lomax, became the "standard" after its inclusion by Aaron Copland in his 1942 ballet "Rodeo."

Stepp was born in 1875, so he presumably learned the tune in the '90s, if not earlier.

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: GUEST
Date: 26 May 20 - 03:07 PM

Some introspective about the tune at that link, as well as the turn itself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-V-9rE005a4

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: GUEST,Starship
Date: 26 May 20 - 03:07 PM

That was me.

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 27 May 20 - 04:23 AM

Bonaparte's Retreat, my favourite version

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNigFpaBBf8

Subject: RE: Napoleon's retreat
From: Lighter
Date: 27 May 20 - 04:18 PM

The piece requested by Beauchamp in 1826 was almost certainly the undated

"BONAPARTE'S RETREAT!!! From Moscow: Composed by Alexander Campbell. Published by John Cole, Baltimore."

https://levysheetmusic.mse.jhu.edu/collection/040/028

Along with "Grand Waltz, by Mozart," "Believe Me, If All Those Endearing Young Charms," "Marseilles Hymn," etc., the title appears in program of classical and semi-classical pieces advertised in the Baltimore American and Commercial Daily Advertiser (Aug. 23, 1831), p.3.

"Bonaparte's Retreat from Moscow" is mentioned in passing as a familiar piano composition in the Charlotte (N.C.) Journal (July 21, 1842), p. 3; The (Boon's Lick, Mo.) Times (Sept. 5, 1846), p. 2 (as "Bonaparte's Retreat," in a program of violin and piano music); and the Galaxy Magazine (Oct., 1866), p. 281 (mentioned as a piano piece along with "Money Musk," "Fisher's Hornpipe," and "Java March").

In folky vein, The Old Abe Eagle (White Oaks, N.M.) (May 24, 1894), p. 2, reports (in fiction) that,

"Hank...handled the bow dexterously and often relieved the monotony of cow boy [sic] life by drawing 'The Arkansaw [sic] Traveller,' 'Fisher's Hornpipe,' 'Bonaparte's Retreat,' or some lively jig or cotillion from [a] battered old violin."

Several bars of Campbell's composition (divided into "Slow March" and "Quick March") are reminiscent of the fiddle tune (or vice versa). Many fiddlers play the piece faster and faster. Coincidence?

The disastrous retreat took place in 1812. I've been unable to ascertain anything at all about Alexander Campbell. Was he the celebrated theologian of that name?