Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These

Subject: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: pavane
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 05:37 AM

Yet another obscure song - I can only remember the chorus, which went

Whose pigs are these
Whose pigs are these
Oh they are ?Tom Pott's? I can tell 'em by the spots
and I found them in the vicarage garden

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: GUEST,Sooz (at work)
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 05:47 AM

I thought that was all there ever was! Great song for harmonising.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 06:05 AM

I think that's all there is. Someone taught it to us at a singaround a while back. Its monstrous catchy!
Unfortunately, the next thing was an instrumental banjo tune, in which the same tune seemed to emerge as we listened. The poor banjo-man couldn't understand why we all cracked up laughing when he finished - it was because a few of us had caught eachother's eyes and were silently mouthing the 'whose pigs are these' song.
Diamond bloke that he is, he instantly saw the funny side & took no offence.

Kris

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: DaisyA
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 06:30 AM

It's also good sung as a round. Takes me back to my childhood...

Daisy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: English Jon
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 07:30 AM

whose sheep are these?/ whose sheep are these?/ They are old jack gaughn's/ I can tell em by their horns/ and i found them in the V.G. EJ

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: pavane
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 07:38 AM

Yes, I seem to remember it sung as a round. But I never heard about the sheep.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: IanC
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 07:43 AM

The sheep are a recent addition!

;-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: Micca
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 08:12 AM

Ian, English John, with reference to a previous thread from the more famous wearer of the name, Dick Gaughan, on pronounciation
whose sheep are these?
whose sheep are these?/
They are old jack gaughn's/( Gockans)
I can tell em by their horns/(Hockans?)
and I found them in the V.G.
*********BG*********

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: lizzie_croc
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 05:10 PM

I thought he was John Watts

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: mousethief
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 05:18 PM

Whose Pigs are these? I think I know
His sty is in the village, though...

Alex

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: Sorcha
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 06:20 PM

I'm sure they are either O'Rafferty's or MacDaithi's.......

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: vectis
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 06:42 PM

The pigs used to belong to John Potts but he may have sold them on by now.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: GUEST,Shantyman
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 05:50 AM

Regarding John Pot's pigs, I heared the became victims of foot and mouth

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: IanC
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 06:25 AM

Here's another version with a 2nd verse

Whose pigs are these,
Whose pigs are these,
They are John Potts,
I can tell them by their spots,
And I found them in the vicarage garden.

What's their disease,
What's their disease,
They've got the pox,
I can tell by the spots,
And I found them in the vicarage garden.

If we discount this version of how the pigs got their spots, we can arrive at a good initial analysis of the geographical origin of the song. Since the only spotted pigs in England are Gloucesters, this is undoubtedly their place of origin. It cannot, however, be the origin or birthplace of the song. This is because the pigs are unusual because of their spots. We are therefore looking for somewhere where Gloucester Old Spots are known, but generally rare. Possibly somewhere in The Cotswolds? Any further ideas?

Here's a nice audio version of the song Whose Pigs?

;-)
Ian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: English Jon
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 06:29 AM

Gorns Horns obviously.

EJ

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 05:17 PM

Ian, you sound like Sherlock Holmes! I learned it as "Whose pigs be these?", but that might be a later affectation. As with many of the rounds I sing, I learned this one at the San Francisco Folk Music Club's New Years gathering, Camp Harmony, where there are rounds galore.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 09:12 PM

My friend Dermot Murphy once had some Gloucester Old Spot pigs. He also had some Saddlebacks and a Tamworth boar.
After he had finished crossing them, they had piglets which were ginger at each end, a pink stripe down their middle and large black spots.
When small, they were known as the Guinea Pigs.
Quack!!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 09:53 PM

By the way, Ian, when I tried your link I got two pages of gibberish text and no sound.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: Dunc
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 04:43 AM

I learned this one many years ago....

Whose pigs are these?
Oh whose pigs are these?
They are Geoff Potter's
And I know them by their trotters
And I found them in the vicarage garden..

They are Bill Spear's
And I know them by their ears..

The are Sally Dale's
And I know them by their tails..

They are Farmer Hunt's
And I know them by their....grunts..
And I found them in the vicarage garden

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: IanC
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 04:50 AM

Mark

It's a RealPlayer file. You may not have the RealPlayer plugin.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: pavane
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 05:14 AM

Looks like starting with a few words, we now have a complete song! Thanks

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: Trevor
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 06:55 AM

What a coincidence! We sang this in a sesh the other night. I learnt it from my kids about a hundred years ago - it was one of the more wholesome things they brought home from school!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 07:05 AM

I like Dunc's slightly less than wholesome version!!

Kris

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: Amos
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 05:40 PM

Whose pigs these are, I think I know
His house is in the village though;
He will not see me cross the line
To steal a pork chop from his swine

I know who owns these sheep as well,
But he lives over in the dell
He'll never know that I came through
And got my rocks off with his ewe.

I also know who runs this site
But got busted Thursday night
He'll never learn, from in the pokey
That I was here, tormenting folkies!

Robert Johnson Frost

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 06:17 PM

Brilliant, Amos! Hats off!

Ian, I have RP but for some reason this doesn't read as a RealPlayer file. Must be one of those Britishisms... If I have time (!) I'll check the homepage and try it from there.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: Jenny S
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 01:39 PM

I heard this sung once, as a round, by the Songwainers at Napton Folk Club. It got going so well that they could not stop it, and the round continued right through the beer break.

J

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Title ' Whose pigs are these'
From: Amos
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 01:45 PM

Whose pig is this? That laid to rest,
In Herman's car is sleeeping?
He drove up for an emissions test
And the pig left the technicians weeping.

This, this, is Herman's pig,
It is awfully strong though it's not too big.
Haste, haste! To clear the room,
WHenever the two of the ennnnter....

(Dedicated to Catspaw)

A

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: GUEST,flipperthedolphin
Date: 04 Sep 13 - 09:24 AM

I recall it as 'John Potts', and I remember The Young Tradition performing it in Harrogate in about 1970, sung as a round, and they wandered off into various tunes including the Hallelujah Chorus. Sadly missed!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: Leadfingers
Date: 04 Sep 13 - 11:45 AM

Songwainers were doing it before Y T , including the burst of Handel - Who's pigs , whos pigs whose pigs are these , are these etc !

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Sep 13 - 02:26 PM

Barbershop singers often use it as a warmup for singing as a round and harmonising. know any other rounds apaprt from London Bridge and Frere Jacques.?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 04 Sep 13 - 04:49 PM

ODNR gives a version from the time of Charles I (1632)

Whose three hogs are these, are these,
whose three hogs are these;
They are John Cooke's, I know them by their looks,
I found them in the pease;
Goe pound them, goe pound them, I dare not for my life, my life,
I dare not for my life;
No, for once thou knewest John Cooke very well,
but better thou knowest his wife.

A similar version appeared in Miss Mason's Nursery Rhymes c1877

The tune is declared as 'John come kiss me now'.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 04 Sep 13 - 06:47 PM

John come kiss me now

Not a million miles away from "Whose pigs are these?" as we know & love it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: GUEST,Ted Crum (Steamchicken)
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 04:15 AM

We of the Harbury Folk Club choir sing a four-part version of Pigs arranged by one E. Sidebotham which includes the classic line concerning the vicar "He'll have a fit cos his garden's full of s**t". As responsible singers we only imply the last word but it still gets a laugh.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 10:24 AM

Here we go with the Folk Process..

"Whose Tups Are These?"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8yiULNjUDg

Version probably emanating from Nether Heage, performed by John Tams and co at the NT long ago. Jump to 13:30. As a bonus you get Dutch subtitles, they seem comfortable with Derbyshire as she is spoke.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: GUEST,Ian Gill
Date: 05 Sep 13 - 02:17 PM

Dave Hunt recorded this on the Dr Sunshine Vinyl 'Sunny Songs for Children' a good long while ago. He still has the master tapes, I believe. Also on that LP is the definitive version of 'The Three Wee Pigs' - a great piece of work if ever there was !
Happy days...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: GUEST,louise
Date: 24 Feb 15 - 04:23 PM

does anyone know who wrote the song or is it an olde song dating way back??need to know if i need permission for copyright in a film

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: RTim
Date: 24 Feb 15 - 04:36 PM

Song can be found in the Roud Index - No. 6481 and was published in
Mason, Nursery Rhymes & Country Songs (1909 edn.) p.20

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 02:01 PM

From an old joke book, Fun, edited and illustrated by Alfred Crowquill (London: G. Routledge & Co., 1854), page 103:

"Whose pigs are these, my lad?"
"Whoy, they belong to that there big sow, there."
"No; I mean, who is their master?"
"Whoy," again answered the lad, "that little 'un there: he's a rare 'un to feight."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 06 Mar 15 - 05:00 PM

Louise,
Had you just read a few postings above yours you'd have seen it was at least as old as the 17th century.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: GUEST,Stevebury
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 08:17 PM

Just learned this today in our on-line rounds sing. A little digging (thanks to Google) turned up the following:
from My Life and Recollections, Volume 4, by Grantley Fitzhardinge Berkeley (p 230) (1866) [Googlebooks]
The Gloucestershire dialect is very difficult for a stranger to understand, and in proof of this I add the following verse:--
   “Whus pegs be theseum?
   They be Jan Cucks,
   I knows by their lucks,
   An I faund ’em in the peasen.”
With less of the Saxon element in the language, the lines would run thus: --
   “Whose pigs be these?
   They are John Cook’s,
   I know by their looks,
   And I found them in the peas.”
So . . . as a verse (if not a round) we're at least back to 1866.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: RTim
Date: 14 Jul 22 - 09:16 PM

I always believed it was collected by Mike Price of the Gloucester/Cheltenham area and often sung (as suggested above) by The SongWainers.....

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 15 Jul 22 - 02:39 PM

Songwainers where I first heard it. Very entertaining.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Whose Pigs Are These
From: RTim
Date: 15 Jul 22 - 04:41 PM

I found this reference....Tim Radford.

Whose Pigs are These?

Performer: Unknown female
Place Collected: Slad
Date collected: 1967
Collector: Kean-Price, Michael
Roud Number: 6481
This little ditty, often known as “whose little pigs are these” and usually sung as a round, has a surprisingly long history,   “Merry Songs and Ballads: Prior to the Year A.D. 1800, Volume 3 edited by John Stephen Farmer” has the following, dated 1770:

Whose three Hoggs are these, and whose three Hoggs are these?
They are John Cook’s, I know by their looks,
For I found them in my Pease.
Oh Pound them, oh Pound them, but I dare not for my Life,
For if I shou’d Pound John Cook’s Hoggs I should never kiss John Cook’s wife.
But as for John Cook’s Wife, I’ll say no more than mum:
Then, here’s to thee, thou first Hogg, until the Second come.

Of course, many Gloucestershire people consider that the “spots” refer to the Gloucester Old Spot pig.

Notes by Gwilym Davies

http://glostrad.com/whose-pigs-are-these/?fwp_search_browse=Mike%2BPrice