Northumbrian Pipes

Subject: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 05:30 PM

Pauline Cato & Tom McConnville are performing this Thursday @ Slaithewaite, Huddersfield, Yorkshire, UK.

21st June'2001

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Jun 01 - 09:54 PM

Maybe 8-pints, it would get more attention in the what's on Permathread - not sure. One thing I do know is they are superb - would like to be there...

Jon

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: DaisyA
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 05:44 AM

Perhaps you folks will know: I'm after a second hand set of Northumbrian or Uillean (sp?) pipes, where can I get some for a poor-student price?

Thanks, Daisy

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: IanC
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 05:47 AM

Vous Jestez!

You might try getting in touch with The London College of Furniture, they make them as part of U/G projects.

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: GeorgeH
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 07:36 AM

Northumbrian or Uillian seems a strange shopping list; they are very different beast (so my piper friends tell me). What's the thinking behind your quest?

G.

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: English Jon
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 07:42 AM

I have been doing some research and have found an interesting 12 tone bagpipe, developed by schoenberg for serial music. Conical bore, fully chromatic over 2 octaves (flattened leading note, sharp obtainable with some difficulty), and with 12 drones in a split stock. Each drone has a regulator that produces the tritone of that drone.

EJ

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 08:11 AM

Daisy,

The Northumbrian Pipers Society has a limited number of sets available for loan/hire but there is likely to be a waiting list.

Contact Jim Richmond [e-mail]

The styles for playing smallpipes and Uillean are totally different. I suspect anyone with small hands such as mine are likely to find the smallpipes more appropriate [the G set chanter is very small]. The F set is the norm however.

Good luck.

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: GUEST,Sylvie
Date: 20 Jun 01 - 07:53 PM

I hate to show my ignorance, but I hate to be ignorant, so I'll go ahead and ask: how does one pronounce "Uillean" pipes?

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 04:24 AM

"weelian".

These are the most sophisticated pipes almost amounting to a church pipe organ, but very distinctive in sound.

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: English Jon
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 05:01 AM

you've never seen a church organ, have you Bob.

EJ

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: GeorgeH
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 05:35 AM

Yup, certainly I couldn't see any basis for the comparison between Uillean pipes and a chuch organ, either.

G.

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: GUEST,Roger the skiffler
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 06:31 AM

To hear the Uillean pipes, get hold of Sorcha Dorcha CD or visit Lorcan (InOBU) Otway's website or see them in gigs around NYC.
(Is that OK, Larry?)
RtS (puny Plug-omatic)

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: DaisyA
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 06:54 AM

Ta for your help folks, I am looking for some pipes that are smallish but don't sound bagpipe-y, I guess Northumbrian are the ones I should be looking for. How much do you think I'll have to spend?

Daisy

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: English Jon
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 06:56 AM

If you want something small that doesn't sound like a bagpipe, why not get a concertina?

about £600 quid gets a decent starter set of Northumbrian pipes.

EJ

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: Noreen
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 08:48 AM

I like it, EJ!

Bob, I've never heard that pronunciation for Uillean pipes, though I have heard many...

Sylvie, the pronunciation that I grew up with in trad Irish music circles, is Ill-ee-un.

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 09:06 AM

Noreen,

Since it is obviously Gaelic in origin I defer to your version!

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: GeorgeH
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 09:30 AM

Once upon a time . . .

Battlefield Band made an LP (on a French label) demonstrating the different sounds of three types of pipes . . Northumbrian, Uillean and (IIRC) Scots Highland . .

But yes, I like the idea of !pipes that don't sound like pipes . .

Of course the Iberian Peninsula has a number of additional pipe options, and the are found, in different forms, in most parts of Central Europe.

I THINK Uillean are the most sophisticated, possibly followed by the Northumbrian . .

G.

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: English Jon
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 09:38 AM

It's an oboe with a bag.

EJ

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 09:59 AM

Sorry to disagree EJ!

A conical bore chanter may be, but the Northumbrian Pipes have a cylindrical bore which gives it its sweet tone.

More like a flute with a bag in some ways.

For the technically minded, the chanter is 'stopped' at the end which also gives it a "fairground steam organ" feel as it separates the melody notes.

Only one finger at a time is raised and then replaced resulting in a stoccato effect.

That's why I said it requires a completely different playing technique compared to other pipes.

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 10:15 AM

George,

Yes, I like Susana Seivane who plays the Galician Pipes with a joyful, lively rythmic swing.

Her English is limited, but her on stage presence is magic ...

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: English Jon
Date: 21 Jun 01 - 10:47 AM

Yep, but the wheelyun' is a chronic, sorry, conical bore. Northumbrian wannabees, try and get some recordings of Billy Pigg. Fantastic articulation.

8 pints is more or less right about the fingering. RH works as described on N pipes, but LH is as recorder. This is a "half closed" system, which I believe applies here as opposed to the "full closed" on Irish pipes.

The practical upshot is that there is a moment when the note is stopped between note fingerings, (at the point where all fingers are down, because the end of the pipe is stopped no air can move, so the reed closes.)

EJ

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From:
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 04:24 AM

If you buy direct from a pipemaker (Dave Burleigh, for example) then expect to pay about £500 for an F set with a 7 key chanter. I have a set of Northumbrian pipes at home and really MUST make the effort to learn how to play them. The concertina is much easier to play!

Scott

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: GeorgeH
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 06:17 AM

Depemds on what system the concertina is . . I don't think it's reasonalble to suggest that a Duet's any easier than Northumbrian pipes . .

And yes, I'd agree with everything 8 pints says about Susana Seivane (she was the high-spot of Sidmouth last year. Carlos Nunez is amazing also, though less pleasing on the eye . . (no, that's not sexist . . just an honest bit of male appreciation. Look, I can remember having to look away from the stage during a Kathryn Tickell concert 'cause her in short skirt was distracting from her stunning performance . . )

Oh - got distracted there! Carlos Nunez is at Cambridge this year . . .

G.

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: English Jon
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 06:26 AM

what sort of duet? - Crane is fairly straightforward. McCann is supposed to be pretty easy too, although i've not played one. Haydens are bloody stupid.

The issue is more whether you have to play in F to accomodate northumbrian pipes!

Certainly if the tune is in D, then it's harder on the N pipes than on any concertina, but if it's in F, Bb etc then the pipes are going to be easier. no?

EJ

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 06:53 AM

May not be traditional but Dave Burleigh for one makes a set tuned to D. His web site is here.

Jon

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 08:29 AM

My pipes were made by Colin Ross and cost me about £450 (but that was in 1983!).

I'm not sure if he is still building and selling new sets, but he is certainly still servicing them. Check by sending email to [e-mail] or ring 0191 252 6585.

The Northumbrian Piper's Society was advertising an "Absolute Beginners Weekend Course" in Whitney, Oxfordshire last March where instruments were provided.

I suggest you ring (Dave Shaw?) 01865 714778 to see if the excercise might be repeated.

Cheers,

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: English Jon
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 08:33 AM

Usefull info Bob/Jon F!

Cheers,

EJ

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 08:36 AM

click here for some links to a few makers.

Jon

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: InOBU
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 08:52 AM

Roger - yer a prince!
To see the difference between the Uilleann (ill in) pipes and a church organ, there is a great classical piece, a commemoration of the Irish Famine of 47, that uses both. I'll dig up the title for you. As to makers of Uilleann pipes, I'd recomend Seth Gallagher in Cold Spring New York, perhaps the best pipe maker alive today. His pipes are so well made any of his chanter reads will play perfectly in any other of his chanters. Any Uilleann piper will take you what a remarkable feat that is!
Cheers and thanks again Roger
Larry Otway http://sorchadorcha.com (plug # 87692)

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: InOBU
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 11:05 AM

Here is the recording I spoke of above, Patrick Cassidy - Famine Rememberance, recorded at Saint Patrick's Cathedral, NYC with the great Paddy Keenan on Uilleann Pipes, and available on windham hill records 1540 Bway NYC NY 10036. I expect one can find it on the Amazon or Tower web sites. The last track, the funeral march is extrodinary, duet between church organ and Paddy, then a full orchestra and Uilleann pipes...
Larry
Let me restate that, the great great great Paddy Keenan, good luck to ya and the best of health - Paddy!

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: GeorgeH
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 11:44 AM

English Jon:

The point I was making is that any duet is harder to play than Northumbrian pipes - essentially because the pipes play a single note "line" whereas a duet is playing multiple parts.

As I understand it, the "actions" involved with playing uilliean pipes make them rather a different matter.

And clearly the distinction I made is only really an issue for those starting off on an instrument; mastery of any instrument is a very different matter, and the sort of comparison I was making becomes irrelevent.

G.

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 01:00 PM

Jon,

I can confirm your opinion of Pauline Cato & Tom McConnville's performance last night.

The interplay of styles was very subtle and entertaining.

The audience was a small, but select band of local people as far as I could judge.

Thanks to the Yorkshire Arts Council for subsidising the event and providing access to such traditional music.

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 04:43 PM

I have heard native Irish speakers pronounce Uilleann several ways, but never anything close to weelyun. Either illan or uleeyan would be fairly close. The word actually comes from the word "uillin" which means angle or elbow. The appropriate name for this instrument as Gaeilge is "pib uilleann". In the early days of their developement they were often referred to as the elbow organ. This is due to the fact that one of the uses of these pipes was to replace the organ at Mass. Many of the parishes either couldn't afford an organ or were not allowed them by those that were attempting to rid Ireland of Catholicism. They were also used at the hidden Masses that the Irish Catholic was forced to endure.

All the best,

Mick

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 29 Jun 01 - 09:29 PM

Northumbrian Pipes workshop with Pauline Cato @ Four Fools Festival, Chorley, Lancashire, UK Sunday 1st July'2001 from 10.30 - 11.30

See Four Fools Festival thread for directions & programme

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 30 Jun 01 - 08:30 PM

Refresh

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 09:47 AM

there are some real player snippets here
Go to the folk CD section and try the CD links - some have a sample of one of the tracks.

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 08:08 PM

Excellent workshop staged this morning with 4 pipers attending including "Geordie Broon" & self.

Many thanks for the "advanced" techniques advice to Pauline Cato & friends.

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: InOBU
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 05:53 PM

YOU GUYS ARE STILL ON ABOUT THIS!!!! F's sake lads! Well, I'll add another little tidbit... as long as we are still talking rather than playing! Uilleann is really a rather new way of refering to the pipes, which are not an ancient instrument. There was not, at first, a Gaelic word for bellows pumped pipes. The origional way to refer to them was the Union pipes, and there are two theories about this. 1. A result of the act of Union, which outlawed the playing of warpipes. 2. There is belief that the Union pipes predate the act of Union and the union refers to the joining of the pipes with regulators, the keyed drones which make them unique from the other bellows pipes, like musettes or Northumbrian pipes.
My theory is that Union replaced the older term, the S and M pipes, called so by reason of them being strapped on with all sorts of odd looking leather impliments, and the fact that they combine some serrious bondage with odd exhertions.
Larry

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 08:59 PM

There is an unconfirmed rumour that the Manchester Northumbrian Piper's Society gathering will meet at the Red Bull, in Stockport for a public performance in the evening following the Piper's Day preparations.

Will advise when more information available.

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: GUEST,smallpiper
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 08:45 AM

My suggestion is that you try the Scottish small pipes which are very different in sound to the highland pipes and are much more session friendly coming as they do in the keys of A and D (yes you can get other keys but who cares)check out ray sloane he makes both northumbrian and scottish and he has wave files on his site so you can hear the difference.

I found that the northumbrian pipes were impossible to play (having above average sized hands)but the scottish small pipes much friendlier.

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 07:24 PM

Have you tried the "D" chanter?

It is much larger and should be easier to play (for those with larger hands).

Bob vG

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: smallpiper
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 12:29 PM

Yep but its the whole closed chanter fingering style that foxes me as well I'm happy with my scottish small pipes it calls for a lot of creativity when you've only got nine notes to play with.

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: The Hiker
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 09:43 PM

A contempory Irish composer,Shaun Davey, has written an orchestoral suite called the Brendan Voyage which gives the uilleann (illin) pipes a great platform to demonstrate the range and versility of the instrument. (Helped in no small way by a virtuoso performance from Liam Og O'Flynn

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: GUEST, Swedish spy
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 07:05 AM

I tried to check out Ray Sloane, but I can't find his site. Does he really have a site and in that case, does somebody have the address? I'm curious about different pipes and their sounds. I know I like both smallpipes and Northumbrian pipes but it would be nice to be able to compare them this way.

Yes, I'm just a "Swedish spy" and no musician, but I love folk music, keltic music etc and here I can find new tips about music. A Mudcatter and (former? :-( ) mail- and ICQ-friend told me about this site and here I can also see that he's alive even when he hasn't time to write to me! ;-)

For the rest - I don't know what Mudcat means!!!!

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: smallpiper
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 10:30 AM

HI there berit! Check out Ray Sloanes site by going to the lbps site which is at www.netreal.co.uk/lbps/ and look at the links and I don't think that I'm a former friend but consider myself to still be your friend just not as vocal as once I was! John

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: bernil
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 01:16 PM

Hi John and thanks for the link (which you also gave me a long time ago...) and thanks for admitting that you're the one who gave me this link too!

I like the Northumbrian pipes very much (Kathryn Tickell) and also the Uillean pipes (just now listening to Davy Spillane) but if you let me hear more of your smallpipes I would probably love them more! So... when will I be able to download your music from MP3.com??? I long for that day!

Berit (who is not just a "Swedish spy" but also a member!)

Subject: RE: Northumbrian Pipes
From: 8_Pints
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 04:50 PM

The web site I have for the Ray Sloan URL is:-

http://www.ray-sloan.com/

Of course people will have their own preferences regarding pipe varieties and playing styles - there is plenty of room for all of us :-)

Even different players have different techniques that make life interesting and refreshing.

I enjoy listening to Gerry Murphy (now living in Switzerland I heard), Pauline Cato, Andrew May, Adrian Schofield, Colin Ross on NSP whilst equally enjoying Matt Seattle on the Scottish Border Pipes. Not all at the same time *BG*

Bob vG