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BS: Women who drowned her 5 children

Sorcha 23 Jun 01 - 04:54 PM
JedMarum 23 Jun 01 - 04:47 PM
SeanM 23 Jun 01 - 04:24 PM
Sorcha 23 Jun 01 - 04:14 PM
Mrrzy 23 Jun 01 - 04:03 PM
Mooh 23 Jun 01 - 03:49 PM
Matt_R 23 Jun 01 - 03:24 PM
chip a 23 Jun 01 - 01:00 PM
Susan from California 23 Jun 01 - 12:54 PM
Sorcha 23 Jun 01 - 12:10 PM
Little Hawk 23 Jun 01 - 12:06 PM
Ebbie 23 Jun 01 - 12:00 PM
Clinton Hammond 23 Jun 01 - 11:30 AM
katlaughing 23 Jun 01 - 11:30 AM
JedMarum 23 Jun 01 - 10:52 AM
Sorcha 23 Jun 01 - 10:46 AM
Wolfgang 23 Jun 01 - 10:45 AM
RichM 23 Jun 01 - 10:43 AM
GUEST 23 Jun 01 - 10:40 AM
RichM 23 Jun 01 - 08:02 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 23 Jun 01 - 04:34 AM
DougR 23 Jun 01 - 02:30 AM
TishA 22 Jun 01 - 11:25 PM
Louie Roy 22 Jun 01 - 11:22 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 04:54 PM

Jed, trust me, serious depression can easily be hidden, especially if your family, friends, SO's whatever don't really want to see it. Been there, done that. My family wouldn't even see it when I tried to tell them, until the night I OD's on over the counter stuff because I was so angry/isolated/unbelieved, etc.

Then, they got mad at ME for taking all that stuff instead of talking----I HAD been trying to talk for months but nobody would listen.


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: JedMarum
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 04:47 PM

Good points here, all, except for Little Hawk's bigotry.

Thoughtful, compassionate comments for a deeply troubling event. I am very very sorry to have heard this news, and just wanted to sit and try to imagine how things could have gone so wrong, and remained unseen - how could she have slipped so seriously into such a depression and no one noticed, or found a way to get her out - or at least out of harm's way.

There are no pat answers, no sound bite explanations or solutions. These deeply sorrowful events, these human complexities cannot be given justice by a prying press or a sound bite driven talk show host. This poor woman crossed the line of no return. The rest of us pick up the pieces and move on.


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: SeanM
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 04:24 PM

Here's the major song being referred to:

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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 04:14 PM

No, it won't be "cured" by execution, nor will it stop some other depressed parent from doing the same thing. I truly doubt that this woman would ever do this again if she gets the right kind of good help. If however, she ever truly realizes what she did, she could definitely be a suicide risk; as to that, perhaps she should be allowed to do that. I don't know, I am not G-d, nor am I the arbiter of her soul.

It is just too, too tragic, but I also suspect that the US at least, is going to start seeing more and more of this kind of thing for quite a few reasons. Perhaps other "civilized" (whatever the hell that means) countries. Too much Society, not enough caring help. Too much assigned blame, not enough "guilt free help".

Remember the mother in Idaho just a week or so ago? She was "too proud" to accept help, most likely because the "help" offered required her to feel some guilt about her inability to provide. Guilt seems to be a requirement of the current "help" system.

I could be wrong; I was wrong once........I hope I am wrong.


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: Mrrzy
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 04:03 PM

Definitely just the kind of tragedy that makes the best folk ballads. Good point for a Mudcat thread, although some may think that gross (maybe folk songs are like sausages and laws, you don't want to know how they're made?)...

The other thought I had, besides the incredible how sads, wa that this may have been depression, but it isn't post-partum depression if it's lasted for 2 years, by definition. You can't re-up postpartum depression by having more kids. This was definitely an abandoned (-feeling, which is reality as we all know) woman with terrible inexorable (-feeling, again) something that (I guess I am now having a second thought) won't be cured by execution.


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: Mooh
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 03:49 PM

Yeah Matt, great folk song material, ain't it!

Makes me sick just to think about it, but think about it I must. I don't know how to respond to this most evil of tragedies. As both parent and child it is frightening beyond compare, and just as inhuman, I hope. My only reaction in this case is to hope and pray because I know no other reaction.

There is no justice available for this crime or this criminal or the conditions which spawned her.

Peace. Mooh.


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: Matt_R
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 03:24 PM

I found it sickening as well.

Who was it who said in a thread the other day that they loved singing songs about mothers murdering their children? Here's another sad sad event for one of those kind of songs.


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: chip a
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 01:00 PM

Gee, Little Hawk,

So easy for you to find sympathy and understanding for a woman who KILLED FIVE KIDS. How, in the same breath do you fail to find any understanding for "some Texans"?

Could it be that you have a serious lack of empathy or imagination with a fearful and vengeful mindset, and just plain outright ignorance?

I'd pretty much agree with your take on depression and also (maybe) on the death penalty. But your attitude sucks out loud.

Chip A.


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: Susan from California
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 12:54 PM

Maybe she didn't know what else to do. Maybe she didn't believe in birth control. Maybe her husband thought that keeping busy was the best "cure". The poor woman had five kids, the oldest was seven AND she was homeschooling them. I cried this morning when I read that her 7 year old tried to get away, and that she did it because she felt that she had ruined her children beyond repair. She must have felt very alone. How often have Moms felt as if they skrewed up their kids? I know I have sure questioned my ability from time to time. But thank God I have been healthy enough to realize that even tho I mess up, the kids are ok. One can only hope and pray that the survivors will find some measure of peace.


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 12:10 PM

I do understand that Little Hawk, having had some serious bouts with depression myself, and my heart goes out to this woman and her family, but my question is:

If she was having such a difficult time with Post Partum Depression why did she keep having MORE babies????


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: Little Hawk
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 12:06 PM

This sort of thing happens when a person has simply lost all hope and all sense that they can cope with a situation...and they can't figure out what to do about it...and they break under the stress and lose control. It's an act of desperation. Who knows why? You would have to be her and live her life (all of it) in order to even begin to know why.

Of course some Texans are calling for the death penalty. Duh. It's their standard way of resolving human tragedies after the fact. That's what you get when you combine a serious lack of empathy or imagination with a fearful and vengeful mindset, and just plain outright ignorance.

As if executing her will help anyone....!

It's clear from the story that the woman was in a lengthy and deep depression, that she had lost confidence in herself and her ability to raise her children properly. When people are very depressed it alters their whole perception of reality. Their self-worth goes down the drain, and their ability to cope with ordinary things is severely curtailed. That can lead to suicide or it can lead to other desperate acts which a person would normally not consider. (Animals will also sometimes kill their young when under unusual stress...it's not an act indicative of evil, but of panic or loss of control on some level.)

My only reaction (aside from disgust at those calling for her exection) is sadness.

If she is sent to jail, of course, she will get routinely viciously beaten by inmates who see their own darkest fears mirrored in what she did, and take it out on her. It would probably be wiser to place her in a safe place in some mental institution.

There is no good or easy solution to this kind of tragedy once it has happened. No simple fix. Not even in Texas. No matter how many more lives are taken by the State. Those who are against killing ought not to do it themselves.

- LH


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 12:00 PM

I've gotta say this, GAG: when you went to hell to get those minions, I'm surprised you didn't stay! Wanna try again?

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 11:30 AM

Ug... it's a hell of a symptom...


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 11:30 AM

the sad story


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: JedMarum
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 10:52 AM

Louie Roy - sooo sad. My reaction was similar to yours Louie. How can one have gotten so deeply disturbed - and what mountain of pain has been created?


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: Sorcha
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 10:46 AM

Houston, Texas Don't know how long the link will work, it's from a newspaper.


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: Wolfgang
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 10:45 AM

E.g., here

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: RichM
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 10:43 AM

In Texas, I think. Some are already calling for the death penalty.

Rich


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 10:40 AM

When and where did this happen please?

I've not heard about it.

Can anyone provide a news link, please?

Thanks


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: RichM
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 08:02 AM

There ya go, Doug--gargoyle just answered your question!


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 04:34 AM

I've lived with three wattering, chattering, sniveling, litle minions from hell...

And can only imagine, in nightmares, what five would be like.


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: DougR
Date: 23 Jun 01 - 02:30 AM

Do you think it likely, Louie Ray, that ANYONE is going to post a message expressing anything other than sorrow about this situation? I don't think so. But we will see.

DougR


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Subject: RE: BS: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: TishA
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 11:25 PM

I have 7 daughters and 2 sons and 8 grandkids. I just feel sad. Too sad to tell. Harmonica sad.

Chip A.


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Subject: Women who drowned her 5 children
From: Louie Roy
Date: 22 Jun 01 - 11:22 PM

Iwas sick when I read this article and wondered if others felt not only anger such as I but also a deep sickness in the pit of their stomach. Louie Roy


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Mudcat time: 7 July 3:23 AM EDT

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