Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Chris Wright
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 06:06 AM

As others have pointed out above, this song and "I'll Lay Ye Doon, Love" are creative reworkings of what are often termed 'Stage Irish' pieces - popular songs written for the music hall and published in sheet music and broadside form. "I'll Lay Ye Doon, Love" came from the piece "Muldoon, The Solid Man", and "Jock Stewart" from "I'm The/A Man You Don't Meet Every Day". New York seems to have been a locus for the stage Irish phenomenon. It's worth pointing out that there's a similar phenomenon with Harry Lauder and other Scottish music hall piece ending up reworked by Scots Travellers as well.

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,John folksongandmusichall
Date: 07 Nov 22 - 05:29 AM

Sheet music published in New York in 1881, credited as written and composed by William Ashcroft is now available at the Library of Congress - I am not sure how long its been there!
https://www.loc.gov/resource/sm1881.20941.0/

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,John (at) folksong and music hall
Date: 22 Oct 22 - 05:04 AM

Further up in the thread Nick Dow suggests its a song from Music Hall. I think I have quite strong evidence from Newspaper archives that this is correct.
We can now be reasonably sure that it was first sung by WJ Ashcroft, an Irish American comic active in the British and Irish Halls, and that it was written for him by a Welshman - his principal songwriter and manager, John J Stamford. See https://folksongandmusichall.com/index.php/the-man-you-dont-meet-every-day-jock-stewart/
and follow the links to find out more about Ashcroft and Stamford

I think this is new info ..

John

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,guest
Date: 15 Sep 20 - 09:22 AM

OK OTHER guest- that's fair enough- I don't think she ever claimed to have written it, nor that it was in the family repertoire & Doc Rowe knows what he's on about so it all seems reasonable enough.

So it probably was posted by an older person who thought she should have the song & rightly so it was written/adapted by someone who knew Alec & no-one did a better job with it than Sheila.

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: meself
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 04:56 PM

I read Sheila Stewart's lyrics-in-the-letterbox story somewhere years ago; probably in an article or review on the Musical Traditions site.

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 02:01 PM

In answer to GUEST posting 14 Sep 20 - 05:08 AM...

I heard Sheila tell this anecdote at a concert, probably at the Tolbooth in Stirling about 15 years ago. That's not to say that that's the origin of the song... check the website Mainly Norfolk for more info. It says there:

"Sheila Stewart sang Jock Stewart in a 1999 recording by Doc Rowe in her home in Blairgowrie on her CD And Time Goes On: Songs and Stories. Doc Rowe commented in the album notes:

Popular on the folk scene, this song was found by the Stewarts in their letterbox when they returned from shopping one day! An anonymous writer simply stated that it was written for [Sheila's father] Alec, a fine piper and storyteller. Versions are found in Ireland."

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Richard Mellish
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 06:05 AM

I have always considered the "shooting the dog" notion to be an intentional and facetious misinterpretation. Even the words that can be understood that way can be understood differently by punctuation:
"I took out my gun and my dog. I did shoot ..."

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Sep 20 - 05:08 AM

where & when wdid you hear this & who are you- this contradicts several earlier posts and it would be good to have details!

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 20 - 10:49 AM

I remember Sheila Stewart saying that her family were at the berry picking in Blairgowrie and came home to find that someone had put the handwritten lyric of Jock Stewart through their door.

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: FreddyHeadey
Date: 11 Sep 20 - 07:34 AM

John Thompson (https://www.blogger.com/profile/16470840323861846078)
singing Bound For Australia
http://ozfolksongaday.blogspot.com/2011/08/bound-for-australia.html

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: JHW
Date: 08 Sep 20 - 05:53 AM

Was once taken to a 'private club' in Edinburgh and heard a substantial version new to me.
Mentioned to Derek B who sent me a cassette full of versions, none were what I'd heard. Will have to re-hear.

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 04:58 PM

When I lived in Glentrool, Galloway, we ran some events in the village school and persuaded Sheila to come for a night for the villagers- NOT a folk club! She came with Jess Smith (author of 'Tales from the Tent') and we had a wonderful night (I have a DVD)

We decided to ask Sheila & Jess to talk to the children in the afternoon & they were a great hit (especially the rude bits!) & it all went well. One aspect was her explanation of the cant language via a cant version of a song.

   We Ieft the children in the teachers' charge & went for tea at our house across the road. I remembered we hadn't put the chairs etc back in position as we'd promised, so I went back to do it.

   The children were still in the cloakroom & didn't see me. I was delighted to hear them talking about what they'd heard, but the best thing was when I heard a group of three or four of them singing Sheila's 'cant song- I think it was 'When the boat comes in'.

That's what I call making an impact.

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Bearheart
Date: 06 Sep 20 - 03:59 PM

In the mid-late 80s Sheila and Belle Stewart and Sheila's son Ian came to the Augusta Heritage Arts Workshops to teach at Scottish Week. Ian taught piping and the all contributed to the song classes. It was wonderful.

During that workshop they did say that it was Sheila's grandfather that had the song; I am pretty sure they credited him with authoring it too, but that was a long time ago and the cassette tapes I made of their songs and lectures have long ago self destructed. It's possible that perhaps he simply added verses to an existing song? Many people in that family have been great song writers.

It is a shame that the few things they recorded are not really available anymore (or at least I have not been able to find them. I am pretty sure there was an LP someone recorded that also included her sister(s), but I have not been able to locate it.

Sheila was not only a fine singer; she was one of the kindest people I have known, and I have fond memories of that week, and other times spent with her at Augusta.

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 22 Aug 20 - 06:43 AM

I sang the version I collected from Bill House, in a concert with Len Graham. Len suggested he had a broadsheet of Irish origin containing the song. Bill's version mentions the County Kildare.
Almost certainly the song is of 'stage' origin, which is why it was ignored by the Hammond brothers in Dorset. The Meech family used to sing the song, in the Star in Beaminster in the 1920's so I'm told.
The Gypsy Folk sing it to this day.

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: The Sandman
Date: 22 Aug 20 - 03:07 AM

I dont suppose its a Hugill composition is it?

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: r.padgett
Date: 22 Aug 20 - 02:41 AM

Bound to Australia

I'm leaving old England, the land that I love

And I'm bound for across the sea;

Oh, I'm bound for Australia, the land of the free

Where there'll be a welcome for me.



Ch. So fill up yer glasses an' drink what ye please,

         For whatever's the damage I'll pay,

So be aisy an' free, whilst yer drinkin' wid me,

Sure I'm a man yiz don't meet every day!



When I board me ship for the south'ard to go,

She'll 0be looking so trim and so fine,

And I'll land me aboard, wid me bags and me stores,

From the dockside they'll cast off each line.



To Land's End we'll tow, wid our boys aIl so tight,

Wave a hearty goodbye to the shore,   

An' we'll drink the last drop to our country's green land,

An' the next day we'll curse [nurse] our heads sore.



We'll then drop the tugs and sheet tops'Is home taut,

An' the hands will crowd sail upon sail,

Wid a sou'wester strong, boys, we'll just tack along,

By the morn many jibs will turn pale.



We'll beat past the Ushant and then down the Bay,

Where the west wind it bIows fine an' strong,

We'll soon git the Trades an' we should make good time,

To the south'ard then we'll roll along.



Round the Cape we will roll, take our flyin' kites in,

For the Forties will sure roar their best,

An' then run our Eastin' wid yards all set square,

Wid the wind roaring out of the west.



We'll then pass Cape Looin all shipshape an' trim,

Then head up for Adelaide Port,

Off Semaphore Roads we will there drop our hook,

An' ashore, boys, we'll head for some sport.



When I've worked in Australia for twenty long years,

One day will I head homeward bound,

Wid a nice little fortune tucked under me wing,

By a steamship I'll travel I'm bound!



So 'tis goodbye to Sally an' goodbye to Sue

When I'm leavin' Australia so free,

Where the gals are so kind, but the one left behind

Is the one that will one day splice me!

This is the song sung by Bill as provided by the knowledgeable Mick Shaw from Swinton way (nr Rotherham/Doncaster) he says it is in Hugill and of Australian origins

Ray

the recording is a bit loud and he has his big 'tina and voice backing

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: r.padgett
Date: 21 Aug 20 - 11:29 AM

I have been sent a clip of Bill singing a variant!

More when I know more

Ray

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 21 Aug 20 - 05:35 AM

Sheila said just that to me as well- also that the piper in the song was her grandfather- she never said that he wrote it, only that it was his song...

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 20 Aug 20 - 04:05 AM

We heard Sheila Stewart sing this at Ripponden Folk Club many years ago, she introduced it as ' my grandfaithers song ' Sheila was magnificent BTW.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: r.padgett
Date: 20 Aug 20 - 03:09 AM

"I have searched in vain for the lyrics of a beautiful version of this song sung by the Yorkshire singer Bill Price"

That's an interesting one ~not heard him sing that one and it would if not recorded be before 1980

Ray

Subject: RE: Origin: (I'm) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Aug 20 - 07:55 PM

Of course Puddles is singing the Pogues version, but don't blame him for that. He doesn't like the shooting of the dog, though Cait clearly doesn't mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7nLkKbIp54c

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Mr Happy
Date: 13 Mar 08 - 09:02 AM

There쳌fs a post on this thread from Liam쳌fs Brother dated 27 Jun 01, which has a version of 쳌eJock Stewart쳌f , but seems very reminiscent of this song:



Do you want your old lobby washed down?

I쳌fve a nice little cot and a small piece of land
And a place that is down by the sea
And I care about no one 쳌ecause I believe
That no body cares about me
My peace is destroyed and I'm fairly annoyed
By a lassie that lives in the town
She cries every day as she passes my way
Do you want your old lobby washed down?

CHORUS

Do you want your old lobby washed down con shine?
Do you want your old lobby washed down?
She cries every day as she passes my way
Do you want your old lobby washed down?

The other day the old landlord came round for his rent
And I told him no money I had
Besides 'twas not fair for to ask me to pay
As the times were so awfully bad
He seemed discontent at not getting his rent
And he shook his old head with a frown
Says he I'll take half
And said I with a laugh
Do you want your old lobby washed down?

Now the boys of the town when they go a-courting
They seem to be terribly shy
For to kiss a young maid
Sure they seem half afraid
But they would if they could on the sly
But me, I do things in a different way
And I don't give a fuss or a frown
When I goes to court
I says here goes for sport
Do you want your old lobby washed down?


Does anyone know which would쳌fve been the original?

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 23 Jul 07 - 10:11 AM

I've sung this song for many years and only heard the verse about shooting at or with the dog recently. I agree with Kendall though, the guy is relating the good times and shooting the dog seems wrong in the story. Here are the verses I've been singing.

Jock Stewart

Oh My name is Jock Stewart, I'm a Canny Gaun man,
And a roving young fellow I've been.

    So be easy and free when you're drinking with me
    I'm a man you don't meet every day.

And at sup have I sat with both bottle and friend,
'Tis a rare man who dare ask for more.

Let us spend well the hours and the vintage of life,
And we'll share them as well as we may.

So come fill up your glass with whiskey or wine,
And whatever the price I will pay.

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Rog Peek
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 01:38 PM

The version I pretty well copy when I'm singing this one is that by Dougie MacLean on the CRM album with Alex Campbell, Alan Roberts & Dougie MacLean.

Jock Stewart

Oh my name is Jock Stewart
An' I'm a canny young man
But a roving young fellow I've been

Chorus:
So be easy and free
When you're courtin' wi' me
I'm a man you'll no' meet every day

Though I've acres of land
I've got men at command
But my money I foolishly spent

chorus

So I took out my gun
With my dog I did go
All down by the banks of the Tay

chorus

So come fill up your glass
With whisky and beer
And no matter the cost I will pay

chorus

When it comes to the gun and the dog it's not atall controversial, a cold blooded dog murder or a quiet stroll along the banks of the Tay. You can choose your own ending.

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GEST
Date: 24 Apr 07 - 11:43 AM

For the record, before they became Great Big Sea, the group did a variant which was arranged by Jacgui St. Croix on their 1991 Rankin Street Tape - Live From The Blarneystone. The title was: I'm A Man You Don't Meet Every Day, and it was performed to the air, Believe Me If All Those Endearing Young Charms. :)

GEST Songs of Newfoundland and Labrador

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Barry Finn
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 03:34 PM

Is it only the Pouges version where the dog gets shot? I've never heard another, is there another?

I believe Shelia's grand dad or great grand dad was named Jock & was a fiddler.

Barry

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Peace
Date: 23 Apr 07 - 12:07 AM

"I have searched in vain for the lyrics of a beautiful version of this song sung by the Yorshire singer Bill Price"

Try e-mail to his daughter.

ruth 'at' ruthprice.com

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 11:54 PM

'I shall not attempt to explain "show't"'

Everyone must have been sick of the subject by the time this was posted, since no one bothered to INSIST that Mr McVicar explain it - and "show't" is key to understanding his version of the verse in question, and most of the thread consists of arguments about that verse ...

Anyone have an explanation?

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,robert s
Date: 22 Apr 07 - 11:34 PM

I have searched in vain for the lyrics of a beautiful version of this song sung by the Yorshire singer Bill Price about a man having to leave for war and he beckons all to gather round as he buys his last round. Anyone heard of this version?

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,Ewan McVicar
Date: 30 Jun 01 - 06:09 AM

Fascinating stuff.
According to the Porter and Gower book, what Jeannie Robertson sang was "For I took out my gun, and my dog I did show't All down by the River Clare." I shall not attempt to explain "show't". In the book is an interesting consideration of the Irish influences on [rather than Irish origin of] the tune and chorus text. There I think no Scottish River Clare. Is there one in Ireland?
On the other hand, in Sheila Stewart's own new booklet she says it was written about a relative of hers. I only skimmed the booklet yesterday, but I do not think she states who she believes wrote it.
By the way, as Porter and Gower observe, there is another totally dissimilar song of the same title in the Greig Duncan collection.

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Aidan Crossey
Date: 29 Jun 01 - 07:28 AM

A draw's an honourable result! Why don't we all buy each other a virtual pint and drink to our very good health. Here we all are and there's none like us!

Slainte.

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: kendall
Date: 29 Jun 01 - 07:12 AM

Remember the Invincible knight at the bridge in Monty Python and the holy grail? "Alright then. we'll call it a draw."

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Aidan Crossey
Date: 29 Jun 01 - 06:20 AM

Dan ...

Thanks for the kind words regarding my posting. It was intended to be helpful and if at least some people found it so, then it hasn't been wasted.

I've been known to get quite heated about the issue of people changing songs to suit themselves. (There is a fairly infamous episode at my now-wife's birthday party some years ago where I ordered someone to leave because they were attempting to chime in with me on a song, but insisted in taking it off on their own particular tangent much to my annoyance. Needless to say the drink was in, the sense was out and I reacted out of all proportion.)

In this particular case I don't think it's a case of an incorrect rendering of a song ... just the rendering of a different version. I'm quite prepared to accept the arguments of those who claim that the Scottish/Northumbrian version is the source version. But I would give the Irish version a right to co-exist alongide it as a variant in its own right.

And let's not overlook the important thing which strikes me as I review all of the debate about this number.

There are a large number of people scattered throughout the world who care sufficiently passionately about this genre of music to argue amongst themslves about matters which to the uninformed and uninterested observer must seem like mere minutiae. These are the very people who will ensure that folk and traditional music does not die and that many generations hence people will still sing about Jock Stewart and his dog (and maybe some more versions of the song will emerge in the ensuing period and give rise to more heated debate).

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 11:27 PM

H'day yet again,

I think we need to keep in mind which version (of many) we are discussing. If we talk about Jock Stewart, we aren't talking about a "Folk Song" ... certainly not in the sense that means "It's an old, anonymous, song that has lots of different forms, so I can sing it however I want to".

The Jock Stewart version is a (comparatively) recently written song by and/or about an identifiable person and sung by his family and descendants. To slander Jock by cheerfully accusing him of callously killing his favourite hunting companion might get your rocks off ... but singing it too close to a bunch of Stewarts could have the same effect.

Regards,

Bob Bolton

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 08:56 PM

Curmudgeon here. Check out #110, The First of the Emigrants, in the Oxford Book of Sea Songs, Roy Palmer, ed. The notes date this song from the Australian Gold Rush of 1851.

So fill up yor glasses, and drink what you please
For no matter's the damage oh I'll pay.
So be aisy and free whils't you're drinking with me
Sure I'm the man you don't meet every day.

Good songs to all -- Tom

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 08:05 PM

The man you don't meet is considered by many to be scots in origin. It probably isn't. In fact it derives from the music Hall. Sorry about that, along with other songs that we now consider to be folk i.e. Jim the Carter Lad, Out in the Greenfields, Buttercup Joe etc.. The song was originaly an urban composition and adopted by the rural singers late in the nineteenth century, when it was taken up by the broadside press. The earlier versions keep the comic/rural bumpkin image with the Irish connection quoted above (Don't think Ive come over to look for a job, it's only a visit to pay) I collected and published the song fifteen years ago when I visited my best informant 85 year old Bill House of Beaminster Dorset the son of George House who sang to the Hammond Brothers in 1907. Bills grandson Norman still sings his dads song in the Dorset clubs to this day. Interestingly enough in 1908 the Hammond brothers noted that the Dorset rural singers had a repertoire that seemed remakably similar to the lowland Scots singers (See the Folk song journal 1908 {I think}) No idea why! I gave the version I collected to Dave Burland, I've no idea if he's singing it. By the way Doc Rowe colllected a similar version up the road in Somerset. I hope this helps Nick Dow

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 07:06 PM

*grin*...one of the very first long, serious, discussion threads we had here (back in '97)was titled The Curse of Poguery

it is a good read, but I would NOT suggest refreshing it...

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: davidg
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 06:20 PM

Say what you will about Shane, LTS, but, tell me - heard much from the Pogues since they gave him the boot? As far as I'm concerned they were the best rock band in the world for about 3 or 4 years. And what's wrong with a little corruption now and again?

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 06:05 PM

DavidG, sing it the way you want...I guess the worst that can happen is you'll be compared to the Pogues. I don't think that's such an awful fate at all.

Awful fate?? You seen Shane McGowan?? There's a face only a mother could love..... Teeth like tombstones, a voice like a bag of gravel being tipped down a corrugated tin roof and ears like a London Cab with the doors open....

And the Pogues have corrupted/altered more lyrics than any Microsoft Spellchecker.....

LTS

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 05:46 PM

Whatever

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 05:46 PM

Uh, as much as I enjoy The Pogues, they are not exactly what I would call sticklers for tradition -- and I certainly don't think they claim to be. They often play fast and loose with accepted traditional lyrics to make a point, fit an arrangement or just plain because they feel like it (or maybe even don't know any better).

The folk process DOES work its way on traditional words whether because the singer heard it wrong to begin with or the brain somehow segues into the "new" words after singing it for awhile. Best advice is to sing what makes sense, be aware of various versions and know WHY you sing it the way you do. First rule is check the source singer -- especially if there is only one collected version. Don't change anything that you wouldn't want to be the only source left for a future collector/historian.

Bat Goddess

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 04:50 PM

The pub scene derives from:

So come fill up your glasses with Brandy and wine
whatever the cost I will pay

as well as the recurring chorus:
so be easy and free, when you're DRINKING with me

or in Liam's Brother's alternate and pre-existing version: Then call for you glasses, have just what you want and whatever the damage I'll pay;
Bhoys, be airy and free when you're drinking wid me, For I'm a man you don't meet every day.


I understand that the dog is a hunting dog in the version you are talking about...I just don't see that it makes sooooo much more sense that he went hunting, than that he had to put his dog down.

I'm beginning to think we may be talking about to vastly different songs. Liam's Brother posted the lyrics to a song that is vastly different from the Pogues interpretation. Here are the words to the song I've been refering to:

Oh my name is Jock Stewart I'm a canny gun man
And a roving young fellow I've been

So be easy and free when you're drinking with me
I'm a man you don't meet every day

I have acres of land I have men at command
I have always a shilling to spare

So be easy ....

So come fill up your glasses of brandy and wine
Whatever it costs I will pay

So be easy ...

Well I took out my dog and him I did shoot
All down in the county Kildare

So be easy ...

I understand where your coming from Kendall, and if you choose to say the guy went hunting that's fine. I wouldn't say you were f*cking it up and that you should expect to be mocked. I'm just saying let The Pogues, DougG, and myself sing it with the old yeller ending. Rereading some of the posts, I realized derrymacash summed up my thoughts far better and far more diplomatically. I welcome Liam's brothers scholarly knowledge and find it very valuable... but kendall's simple dismissal of this version of the song as being incorrect AND non-sensical needed to be addressed.

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 04:06 PM

It's really quite simple. The man is a hunter, his dog is a hunting dog. Where are you getting this "pub" scene? None of the lyrics of the version I know sound like anything of the sort. The bloke sounds quite content with his life. I must admit I have never heard the Pogues version, but, thats the beauty of the folk process. If a bluegrass band can get away with driving the piss out of "Make me a pallet" I guess one could make a dirge out of Jock Stewart.

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 01:19 PM

Well kendall, I can't make it "make sense" for you [here's the water, horse]. Why does it make more sense that the guy says he went out hunting? Here he is in a bar with a bunch of people, he brags about his wealth, his land, and his minions, he offers to by everyone a drink and then explains "I went hunting"?

It is also not a mis-hearing on the part of DavidG...the words are written in the jacket of the Pogues album...The Pogues might have misheard it, but what resulted was a haunting song delivered by Old Yeller's owner while drowning his sorrows in a bar...and buying a round for the other customers.

Liam's brother's song makes lots of sense, but even the song you are talking about only resembles it a little bit...it avoids the topic of dogs altogether.

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 12:29 PM

I believe Kendall is entirely correct. The dog is a shooting partner not a target.

However, when someone mishears the words, 'Jock Stewart' becomes a story of the most difficult time in the relationship between a guy and his pooch. What are you gonna do?

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: kendall
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 12:16 PM

I go on what makes sense to me. Shooting the dog simply does not fit the rest of the song.

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: davidg
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 12:02 PM

Dan, you're right about the 2 different schools and I tend to favor the more dynamic side as well. My feeling is that if you want to hear an exact replica of Clarence Ashley's "The Cuckoo," you should listen to the record. The great example of someone who fools around with his material, of course, is Bob Dylan. I was lucky enough to be one of the lottery winners for the chance to buy a ticket to one of his "return" concerts with The Band in 1974. What no news coverage ever said was that there were a fair number of people, at the show I was at, at least, who unequivocally did not care for what they felt was the butchering of his (their?) early songs. Me, I loved it. And, partly it was because of the time and the place. He was playing the over-the-top arena rock star to an arena full of fans. He's still almost my favorite singer (George Jones #1) and he has about a 3-note range. But he still puts a song across like almost nobody else. I could go on... and on...But tell me Dan - are you a member of Uisce Beatha? What kind of music? Any recordings available? davidg

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 11:28 AM

nope, sorry...it stands for Uisce Beatha (band name). DavidG, there seem to be 2 schools of thought here at mudcat on the issue of whether songs can or should be dynamic. Some feel the words and even tune can change with your mood and others feel that the copy of the song with the oldest date is always "correct" and all others are abominations. I lean towards the more dynamic. You can even hear contemporary musicians, whose authorship of the song is, sing a song differently than they've written it. This is what I like about live music. This is what some here call the folk process. But I also understand why some people get upset at singers who just don't want to bother with learning an existing tune and just sing nonsense instead of perfectly good words. This isn't the case with this song. You heard it the way the Pogues did it and the feel is entirely different...The song has changed from being about a rich and boastful man trying to impress everyone around him into a song about a man who wants people around him due to his grief at not being able to save his faithful friend despite his earthly possessions. It might even be the same man...just on a different day.

p.s. in my previous post "what makes since" should be "what makes sense" maybe my typing has aquired a southern drawl.

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: davidg
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 10:34 AM

Thanks, Dan, I was starting to think the whole world was against me! By the way, does UB stand for (my alme mater) University of Buffalo?

Subject: RE: Help: (I'm a) A Man You Don't Meet Every Day
From: GUEST,UB Dan
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 09:37 AM

Kendall post 1:
"the correct words are...I took out my gun WITH my dog I did shoot (HUNT) fuck it up if you must, but, you will get static. "

Kendall post 2:

"I dont really care which version is most authentic. I'm stating that shooting the dog makes no sense...It reminds me of Stan Friebergs "History of the US". George Washington ...says "Wait a minute, stars? I said Polka dots!! Stars with stripes? how does that work together, design wise?" IT DOESN'T!

Shooting the freekin' dog makes NO sense!! ""

UB Dan Post: Is it right vs. wrong or is it what makes since to you? You know we ended up with the flag with stars and bars [it might also be helpful to remember that Stan Frieberg's "History of the US" should not be confused with the history of the US]...and davidg gives a good clear definition of the 'sense' of the song. Notice that the Pogues version is slow and more haunting...the voice singing that song isn't partying and laughing. DavidG, sing it the way you want...I guess the worst that can happen is you'll be compared to the Pogues. I don't think that's such an awful fate at all.