Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: Big Tim
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 03:56 AM

Wolfgang, Wow! What a man, Thank you.

Jimmy C: maybe you would be good enough to pass this info on to EK, I'm sure he'd be interested. Maybe you could ask him what he and Josh MacRae, presumably both Protestants, were doing singing Irish rebel songs. Touchy maybe, but of interest, at least to me. All the best guys.

Can I get back now to appeasing my wife and moving out of this house!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: Big Tim
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 03:37 AM

Jimmy C, great to hear from EK via your good self. I hope someone has recorded the "Glasgow van" but I doubt it. However I have great faith in Dita's knowledge, interest and research capabilities. I visited Toronto last year, lovely city, stayed in a hotel on Younge Street and also visited Niagra Falls and Buffalo, pity we didn't all meet up. The London explosion was at Clerkenwell in 1868, 15 members of the public were killed. Not that is was much consolation to them but it was purely an escape bid. The first deliberately terrorist bombs in England didn't come until 1883 (Tom Clarke of 1916 renown, served 15 years).

Ard mhacha: today I'll forward your email address to Jimmy Divers, and hopefully he will get in touch with you. He's a very nice, reliable, no pretensions sort of a guy.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 03:30 AM

Short biography of Frank J. Carty and some references.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: Wolfgang
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 03:22 AM

The story compiled from 1921 Glasgow newspaper article

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: Jimmy C
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 05:17 PM

Tim, I have been on the phone with Enoch Kent for the past 10 minutes. Very friendly and quite humourous, in fact I am still laughing. He lives west of Toronto and I am miles away on the east side. Anyway, he remembers recording the song, but he says it was about the Manchester one, although I clearly remember "in the year of 21 a" as part of his recording and Manchester was in 1867?, so I am more confused than ever. He said he got the words from a book by and Irishman called Paddy,but he can't remember his last name. He has never heard of an incident taking place in Glasgow. He did say that there was a jail break in Claringwell Prison in London where the Irish blew a hole in the prison wall, this may have led to a song called :" The smashing of the wall". When the wall blew, some innocent people on the outside were killed, and as a result the fenian movement lost 50% of their support. He is now curious and will go through his books an dhopefully get back to me. I invited him to get on the Mudcat through the internet, but he is still trying to master the HB2 pencil, so it could be quite a while before we hear from him. So we are back to square one ?.

Jimmy C

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: GUEST,Jimmy C
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 04:43 PM

Tim, that last post was from me . I did not notice that It went through as GUEST.

Jimmy C

Subject: Lyr Add: THE SMASHING OF THE VAN
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 04:41 PM

Tim, The Version I remember by Enoch Kent had the same chorus mentioned above with the names of the solicitors Mc Kay and Sandyman. The album was called Irish Rebel Songs and had a picture of a man standing beside a burned out car on the cover. The picture was taken the week following Easter 1916. Kent was the only singer on this album, I beleive he may have made similar albums as part of a group. As I am out here in Canada, close to Toronto and I know that he used to be in the Toronto region so maybe I can contact him some way. Unfortunately I left the album behind when I left Ireland back in the 60's, but I definitely remember learning this song from the album

The words below I do remember and are similar to the ones above, Unfortunately I can't recall them all, but I am almost certain that it was Duke Street ?. Maybe Duke street and High Street meet ?.

It was upon the 4th of May
In the year of twenty one
The news went round old Glasgow town
That a daring Deed was done
A band of Irish Rebels
To release an Irishman
Assembled down in Duke Street
For the smashing of the van

Here's to the boys that did it, every man who played a part that day
was Irish through and through,
defended by two counsellors
McKay and Sandyman,
the verdict was not guilty
for the smashing of the van.

Maybe the rest will come to me.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: Big Tim
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 04:27 PM

Armagh (!) thanks. My old pal, Jimmy Divers, a great footballer, also recalled one more line, " they arrested Fr McGrory". More later hopefully.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: Big Tim
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 04:14 PM

Dita, I'm a respectably married man, to a [very typically organised] woman who likes to plan things in advance.

Or, maybe we're both bams!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: Dita
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 02:44 PM

Hi Big Tim,
Last time I saw you you were packing to move as well, are you on the run or what!!!
Have not encountered the "Glasgow van", but will go and look now I know.
love, john

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: ard mhacha
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 01:49 PM

Hello Big Tim, Some more info` on the "Glasgow Van". In a book published by Anvil Books Ltd Tralee, [1971], various writers gave their accounts of IRA Jailbreaks. The book is entitled"The Complete book of IRA Jailbreaks 1918-1921. Frank Carty an IRA escapee [1921] from Derry Jail had made his way to Glasgow to train local IRA men. He was captured in a raid by the Glasgow Police and gave a false name. Knowing that it would only be a matter of time before the Police discovered his true identity, the Glagow IRA made plans to rescue him. In the ensuing rescue attempt a Police Inspector was shot and killed, also a Police Sergeant was wounded. Twenty four persons were charged with having attacked the Black Maria, included were six women and a Priest Father McCrory. All were acquitted after a short hearing for lack of evidence. Frank Carty was sentenced to ten years penal servitude. May 4th 1921. Ard Mhacha

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: Big Tim
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:37 PM

Sorry, sorry (!), Ewan MacVicar!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: Big Tim
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:36 PM

Sorry, Ewan MavVicar.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: Big Tim
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 12:35 PM

I believe it's just called The Smashing of the Van, I simply inserted GLASGOW to distinguish it from The Manchester Martyrs (The Smashing of the Van). Thanks to Dita I now have the Enoch Kent recording of the Smashing of the Van (Manchester 1867)which I had had in the 60s but lost. On a previous thread Ewan MacVivar[a Scots folk expert] said that Enoch Kent had recorded GLASGOW but I doubt it. Hope he did though Jimmy C and that you have it. Dita, are you out there, in the environs of Yorkhill!

Unfortunately I'm dismantling my pc within the next 24 hours at most to move house tomorrow but will try to post an update from my old school pal before that. It's still quite sensitive as he says that his relative refused absolutely to discuss the fair. I do know that the man's name was Docherty (or Doherty), not sure of the spelling.

Glad you guys are still speaking to me after the Tommy Makem fracas! All the best.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: Jimmy C
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 10:47 AM

Big Tim,

I don't haven' t the words right now, but I believe they are on an album By Enoch Kent. I will search aound my stuff and get back.

Jimmy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: ard mhacha
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 10:08 AM

Hello Big Tim , I would also be interested in obtaining the words of the song "The Smashing of the Glasgow Van" as my friends Father was one of the persons involved in this incident. He would be very interested if your old school friend would pass on the name of his relative. Contact me [e-mail] Some further information, the case was dismissed for lack of evidence. Hoping the site that rarely fails comes up with the words of the song. Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: Smashing of the GLASGOW van
From: Big Tim
Date: 27 Jun 01 - 08:29 AM

Does anyone have the words for "THE SMASHING OF THE VAN (GLASGOW, 1921)" NOT "THE MANCHESTER MARTYRS" (1867), aka THE SMASHING OF THE VAN. Yesterday I was talking to an old school friend who told me that a relative of his had been tried for murder in Glasgow in 1921 and found not guilty when a group of Irishmen attacked a prison van to try and release an Irish prisoner (the exact same as had happened in Manchester in 1867). He could recall these parts of the song:

It was upon the 4th of May, 1921
That news spread through old Scotland that a daring deed was done.
It was how a band of heroes to release an Irishman,
Assembled in the High Street to smash a prison van.

Here's to the boys that did it. To Erin's Isle they're true,
And every man who was there that day was Irish through and through.
Defended by those counsellors McKay and Sandyman,
The verdict was not guilty on the smashing of the van.

I am also interested in the historical facts if anyone knows them. Thanks.