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Songbooks from Cecil Sharp House/EFDSS

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GUEST,Terry Blankenship 28 Jun 01 - 04:48 AM
nutty 28 Jun 01 - 05:14 AM
Malcolm Douglas 28 Jun 01 - 10:30 AM
IanC 28 Jun 01 - 10:37 AM
Anglo 28 Jun 01 - 11:57 AM
Anglo 29 Jun 01 - 02:17 AM
GUEST,Terry Blankenship 30 Jun 01 - 02:09 AM
Wolfgang 02 Jul 01 - 04:02 AM
GUEST 02 Jul 01 - 09:49 AM
Anglo 02 Jul 01 - 07:59 PM
Malcolm Douglas 02 Jul 01 - 08:08 PM
IanC 10 Oct 02 - 11:43 AM
Dave Bryant 10 Oct 02 - 11:50 AM
IanC 10 Oct 02 - 11:53 AM
GUEST,Peter from Essex 10 Oct 02 - 04:26 PM
Noreen 10 Oct 02 - 05:46 PM
Folkiedave 10 Oct 02 - 05:56 PM
Malcolm Douglas 11 Oct 02 - 12:50 PM
Desert Dancer 11 Oct 02 - 02:30 PM
Harry Basnett 11 Oct 02 - 03:22 PM
Herga Kitty 11 Oct 02 - 05:21 PM
John Moulden 12 Oct 02 - 07:45 AM
Bob Bolton 12 Oct 02 - 07:56 AM
Folkiedave 26 Feb 03 - 12:32 PM
Harry Basnett 26 Feb 03 - 01:57 PM
Steve Benbows protege 26 Feb 03 - 06:01 PM
GUEST,Peter from Essex 26 Feb 03 - 07:00 PM
DMcG 27 Feb 03 - 10:43 AM
Malcolm Douglas 27 Feb 03 - 11:03 AM
Harry Basnett 27 Feb 03 - 02:50 PM
nutty 27 Feb 03 - 03:12 PM
Steve Benbows protege 27 Feb 03 - 05:46 PM
Joe Offer 27 Feb 03 - 08:38 PM
Joe Offer 07 May 03 - 08:57 PM
Malcolm Douglas 07 May 03 - 09:42 PM
Bob the shantyman 20 Feb 13 - 05:25 PM
RTim 20 Feb 13 - 07:04 PM
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Subject: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: GUEST,Terry Blankenship
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 04:48 AM

Do any of you know where I could purchase these four books of songs edited by Frank Purslow and published by the EFDSS. I checked the Cecil Sharp House web site and didn't see them available there any more. I e-mailed them but haven't heard back yet.

"Marrow Bones", "The Wanton Seed", "The Constant Lover" "The Foggy Dew".

All the very best! Terry Blanken


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: nutty
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 05:14 AM

As far as I know , all these books are now out of print although, I have heard, that they may be re-released but I do not know when.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 10:30 AM

You can sometimes get copies through secondhand dealers, but The Foggy Dew in particular seems hard to find.  However,  The South Riding Folk Network  is currently discussing with EFDSS a joint project which, if all goes well, will re-issue the books in ring-bound A5 format, starting with The Wanton Seed.  EFDSS' solicitors have now established the precise copyright status of the material (including Frank Purslow's notes and editorial contributions) and, subject to an agreement all parties are happy with, I'm hoping to be able to get to work on it soon.

Malcolm


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: IanC
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 10:37 AM

Well done, Malcolm

Can't wait to replace my, completely knackered, copies of Marrowbones and The Wanton Seed. And to get the other two which I've been looking out for for a number of years.

Cheers!
Ian


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Anglo
Date: 28 Jun 01 - 11:57 AM

Way to go, Malcolm! I'm perhaps fortunate to have all four of them, but they are pretty tatty at this point. *Do* keep us up to date on the status of this, please, and sign me up for a new set! I check the used book sites fairly regularly and I've never seen any of them, though I don't know any of the local British sites. A lot of English booksellers do post on BookFinder, though, and I've never seen any there.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Anglo
Date: 29 Jun 01 - 02:17 AM

So I lie - currently I find 3 copies of Marrowbones available, from £5 to $27. But I'd still love to see a new edition.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: GUEST,Terry Blankenship
Date: 30 Jun 01 - 02:09 AM

I was able to find someone who had 3 of the 4 books and borrow them. They didn't have Foggy Dew.

Do any of you have Foggy Dew.

Also is The Hammond Brothers Folksong collection by Frank Purslow any good?

Is Frank Purslow alive still? If so what is he doing nowdays?

Terry


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Wolfgang
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 04:02 AM

Like Anglo, I have all four of them.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 09:49 AM

Frank Purslow is alive.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Anglo
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 07:59 PM

Terry Blankenship asked: "Also is The Hammond Brothers Folksong collection by Frank Purslow any good?"

This is a new one on me. What is it? I ask.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 08:08 PM

I think it's a reprint of some of the material that was issued in the USA some years ago, and is also out of print.  Amazon.com have it listed, but can't actually supply it.  Frank Purslow lives in Bampton, Oxfordshire nowadays.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: IanC
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 11:43 AM

Any news on these?

:-)


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 11:50 AM

Try ringing Malcolm Douglas (the librarian) at CSH - 020 7485 2206.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: IanC
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 11:53 AM

The librarian is Malcolm Taylor, not our very own Malcolm Douglas.

;-)


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 04:26 PM

EFDSS was considering reprinting Marrowbones and Wanton Seed in one volume. See Johnny Adams' posting on efdss_forum last winter.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Noreen
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 05:46 PM

(Peter, efdss forum posts are only accessible to members- perhaps you could copy some details over?)


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Oct 02 - 05:56 PM

I am currently working on setting up up a small web-based business dealing in folk books, second-hand vinyl and any other "folk related" material. (Sold a whaling picture for example). With permission I will post the URL on here if anyone feels I can help with their particular needs. I hope to go live before the end of this month.

As a guide on what to pay I sold Marrow Bones and Wanton Seed for about £12.00


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 11 Oct 02 - 12:50 PM

Still no movement from EFDSS on the Purslow books, I'm afraid, but I haven't given up on it. As I understand it, there are three views among those who get to make the decisions: one group wants a full scholarly edition of the Hammond-Gardiner collection on the lines of the Shuldham-Shaw/Lyle edition of Greig-Duncan; this is unlikely to attract the necessary funding before hell has frozen over. Another group would go for a cheap facsimile reprint, but they are the ones who don't understand printing. Any attempt at a facsimile would be ghastly, given the poor print quality and layout of the original books. The third group agrees with me that the way forward is a revised edition, newly set; but that it is not a high priority. A full scholarly edition would be ideal, but really isn't an option as things stand. I doubt if they would even have got as far as discussing it if I and a few others hadn't nagged for so long.

EFDSS is genuinely serious about resuming its publishing reponsibilities, though. Their recent Room, Room, Ladies and Gentlemen: an Introduction to the English Mummers' Play, by Eddie Cass and Steve Roud, is an excellent start, both in terms of content and presentation. Although it's aimed mainly at schools, it's also a very useful introduction to the subject for anyone.

They are also aware of the need to present material in a professional, up-to-date and attractive manner; the designers Ledgard-Jepson (who also do a lot of upmarket folk music CD design, and handled production of Dave Herron's recent re-issue of Roy Palmer's Boxing the Compass, formerly The Oxford Book of Sea Songs) have produced a new "corporate image" for EFDSS publications; in future these will be recognisably part of a series, rather than presented completely haphazardly as used to be the case.

EFDSS also realises that they have neglected song in favour of dance in recent decades. At present, they are working on a new selection of material collected by Cecil Sharp; the first to appear since Maud Karpeles brought out The Crystal Spring in 1975. There will also be an "introductory" folk song book aimed at interested newcomers; I don't know the details.

On the reprint front, they have decided to re-issue The Penguin Book of English Folk Songs, the rights to which they now own (though not the "Penguin" part of the title, of course). From a logistic point of view, it's a more straightforward proposition than the Purslow books, as it can be brought out with only relatively small changes. I'm currently re-setting the music and texts in digital formats for them (funding is always tight, and much of the time they have to rely on idiots like me who will do stuff for nothing because it needs to be done). I don't have any official standing in the organisation except as an ordinary member, though, and at the moment I don't know who on the Projects Committee will be in overall charge, or who will produce final layouts for press (Bryan Ledgard, I hope). My intention is to amplify Lloyd's notes in cases where small pieces of additional information may be useful, but whether or not these small additions will be used, I can't say. The bibliography badly needs to be updated, too, but that is a job for a specialist; Malcolm Taylor for example. EFDSS' aim here is for a new, rather than revised, edition, and until I've talked with the relevant people in more detail I won't know what's actually going to happen, or when, though I gather that Martin Carthy has agreed to write a new Introduction for the book. The two new books I mentioned earlier are higher on the list of priorities.

Meanwhile, secondhand copies of Marrowbones and The Wanton Seed turn up from time to time, generally around the prices Dave quoted earlier (please do post that URL, Dave!). The Constant Lovers appears less frequently, and The Foggy Dew, the fourth and last selection, almost never; I still haven't managed to get hold of a copy after several years of looking around. I gather that the pages were individually glued, rather than sewn in signatures, and that most copies have simply fallen to pieces; the same problem affected the second printing of The Wanton Seed.

Not long ago, someone who had heard talk of a possible reissue of Marrowbones (and whose original copy had been lent out and lost) contacted me about it; I wasn't able to tell him more than I've said here, but I put him onto a copy I knew of in Australia (!) which he subsequently bought, and was very pleased to be re-united, so to speak, with a long-lost friend. I still believe that there is a potential market for a considered new edition (two volumes incorporated into one looks like the best option), but whether it will ever happen I really can't say. To an extent, it will depend on the success or otherwise of the projects already underway.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 11 Oct 02 - 02:30 PM

Thanks for the info and your work on these, Malcolm.

~ Becky in Tucson


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 11 Oct 02 - 03:22 PM

Thanks for the information, Malcolm...I've been mithering EFDSS about the Purslow books for some time without any degree of success.

All the best...........Harry.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 11 Oct 02 - 05:21 PM

The Purslow books were published by EFDS before it became EFDSS. There was also the wonderful pink book - Stephen Sedley's "Seeds of Love" anthology, which was published by Essex Music in association with EFDSS.

Kitty


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: John Moulden
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 07:45 AM

Frank Purslow's The Hammond Brothers Folksong collection is a reprint by EFDSS (Journal Reprint 16) dated 1968 of an article in The Folk Music Journal of that year.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 07:56 AM

G'day Malcolm Douglas,

"... I gather that the pages were individually glued, rather than sewn in signatures, and that most copies have simply fallen to pieces ..."

The trade name for this abominable affront to decent binding practice is "perfect binding" (because the signatures are "cut perfect" ... i.e. on all 4 sides ... and simply glued into a cardboard case). This is one of the most insidious examples of 'weasel language' that I have ever heard (and the reason for my running war with one of Sydney's local small publishers).

Please push for worthwhile publishing standards ... we are not dealing with rubbish of no intrinsic worth - this is our (or your ...) heritage!

Regards,

Bob Bolton


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Folkiedave
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 12:32 PM

I currently have a copy of Stephen Sedley's book the "Seeds of Love" for sale.

See www.collectorsfolk.co.uk and I shall have a stall at IVFDV at Sheffield this weekend.

Dave


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 01:57 PM

An excellent book, Dave...(got it)...thanks again for being so prompt with the Purslow books...you're doing a grand job.

All the best.............Harry Basnett.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 06:01 PM

It's all well and good cecil sharpe and the e.d.f.s.s. realising they have been neglecting song and may take back up publishing but it can't be sold at cecil sharpe. There is no shop there anymore so who is going to sell it or will it be mail order. I know cecil sharpe house is severly underused but it should still have a retail outlet even if it just opened when there were gigs on.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: GUEST,Peter from Essex
Date: 26 Feb 03 - 07:00 PM

Wouldn't it be more sensible to post comments like that on EFDSS Forum rather than on an American discussion board?


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: DMcG
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 10:43 AM

Well, I don't deny having a shop at C Sharp House would be A Good Thing, finances permitting, but there's an awful lot of people who find a trip to London to buy a book a tad on the expensive side, so mail order would be fine by me. (I work in London, so its not a problem for me now, but it was when I was a student in the North East)

And is this an American discussion board? I thought it was world wide! Certainly the title of the thread implies a UK perspective.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 11:03 AM

EFDSS' mail order service is actually quite good nowadays, though like so many other things it needs to be developed and expanded. The Cecil Sharp selection I mentioned some months ago is to be called Still Growing: English Traditional Songs and Singers From the Cecil Sharp Collection, and will be launched at the Cecil Sharp Centenary Conference in Ilminster, Somerset, 20-22 August 2003. All things being equal, the [formerly "Penguin"] Book of English Folk Songs will be out in the Autumn.

The intention is that these books will be available through normal bookshops as well as direct from EFDSS. The saga of the "Folk Shop" is long and complicated, I think, and I certainly don't know enough of the details to comment usefully.


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Harry Basnett
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 02:50 PM

Suggest Peter from Essex reads a few more threads before wittering about American Discussin Boards......


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: nutty
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 03:12 PM

Peter from Essex could well learn a lot by paying Mudchat a visit as well or coming along to a Mudcat Gathering


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Steve Benbows protege
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 05:46 PM

Well said guys!


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Feb 03 - 08:38 PM

Who owns the rights to English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians? Seems like that would be a great candidate for reissue.
I just bought a copy for half.com for $8.50. I wonder what I'll get at that low a price. Next one I saw was $525.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 May 03 - 08:57 PM

What I got was Eighty English Folk Songs from the Southern Appalachians. When I explained the difference and my disappointment to the bookseller, he gave me a full refund and let me keep the book.
Still, can anybody say if there is a reissue of the complete two-volume book forthcoming?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Song books from Cecil Sharp House
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 07 May 03 - 09:42 PM

I shouldn't think so. Big book, small market. It was published in the UK by Oxford University Press, but has been out of print since the mid 1970s. Rights would belong to the Sharp and Karpeles estates, I'd think; so possibly (but not necessarily) EFDSS. At any rate, it would be down to funding, and that's very hard to get for such things.


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Subject: RE: Songbooks from Cecil Sharp House/EFDSS
From: Bob the shantyman
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 05:25 PM

So, after reading a lot of the above, has anybody out there got a copy of The Foggy Dew, original, or reprint, re-issue or whatever that they are prepared to sell to me?
Will I have to take out a second mortgage for an original copy, if there are any out there?
Thanks
Bob


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Subject: RE: Songbooks from Cecil Sharp House/EFDSS
From: RTim
Date: 20 Feb 13 - 07:04 PM

There is a way - online, to find out what is in Purslow's Foggy Dew book, and to look at the original manuscript info on each song - but it is very long winded!!

Go to the EFDSS web site and look at the VWML search site.
Puslow's Foggy Dew is catalogue by Steve Roud as - X5216 (Roud Id. No.) - but you can get the same list by entering - Foggy Dew in the "Source" field.

If you do this you get a list of all the songs in the book. You can do the same for each of the other Purslow books also.

THen go to the Take Six Archive web site (still The Efdss) and you can search for each song by any of the criteria listed.
It is, as I say long winded, but getting to the original material is great!!

Tim Radford (who spend hours poring over these sites)


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