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Songs of the Newfoundland Outports

Cliff 28 Dec 97 - 09:13 PM
Murray 30 Dec 97 - 03:08 AM
Joe Offer 21 Jul 04 - 08:48 PM
Malcolm Douglas 21 Jul 04 - 09:37 PM
masato sakurai 21 Jul 04 - 09:56 PM
Joe Offer 21 Jul 04 - 10:57 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 21 Jul 04 - 11:34 PM
Joe Offer 21 Jul 04 - 11:44 PM
Nerd 22 Jul 04 - 12:10 AM
karen k 22 Jul 04 - 01:05 AM
karen k 22 Jul 04 - 01:23 AM
karen k 22 Jul 04 - 01:29 AM
Joe Offer 22 Jul 04 - 02:32 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Jul 04 - 02:50 PM
GUEST,Don Walsh 22 Jul 04 - 02:52 PM
karen k 23 Jul 04 - 12:07 AM
sian, west wales 24 Jul 04 - 07:49 AM
Willie-O 24 Jul 04 - 09:16 AM
Nerd 24 Jul 04 - 11:23 AM
Peter T. 24 Jul 04 - 12:49 PM
GUEST 24 Jul 04 - 11:22 PM
GUEST,Newf 25 Jul 04 - 02:14 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 25 Jul 04 - 08:39 AM
GEST 09 Aug 04 - 08:08 PM
GUEST,Bromley 26 Aug 04 - 12:09 PM
Malcolm Douglas 26 Aug 04 - 12:46 PM
mg 15 Nov 04 - 08:53 PM
EBarnacle 16 Nov 04 - 10:50 AM
Seecora 03 Dec 04 - 05:38 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 03 Dec 04 - 08:31 PM
Seecora 04 Dec 04 - 05:00 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Aug 05 - 03:46 PM
Frank Maher 22 Aug 05 - 04:03 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Aug 05 - 10:48 PM
Scotus 23 Aug 05 - 09:14 AM
Malcolm Douglas 23 Aug 05 - 06:33 PM
GUEST,Jim Payne 14 Sep 05 - 12:47 PM
karen k 14 Sep 05 - 01:13 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 14 Sep 05 - 04:02 PM
mg 15 Sep 05 - 01:01 AM
Scotus 15 Sep 05 - 09:41 AM
Sandy Mc Lean 15 Sep 05 - 04:35 PM
Sandy Mc Lean 15 Sep 05 - 04:36 PM
Joe Offer 27 Sep 05 - 02:40 AM
GUEST 05 Oct 05 - 03:07 PM
lamarca 05 Oct 05 - 03:42 PM
Dave Ruch 05 Oct 05 - 08:11 PM
Joe Offer 05 Oct 05 - 08:21 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 05 Oct 05 - 09:55 PM
GUEST,Don Walsh 06 Oct 05 - 10:41 AM
Joe Offer 31 May 07 - 08:38 PM
GUEST,meself 31 May 07 - 10:38 PM
Howard Kaplan 31 May 07 - 10:52 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 01 Jun 07 - 12:01 AM
GEST 01 Jun 07 - 11:20 AM
GUEST,meself 01 Jun 07 - 02:58 PM
Joe Offer 02 Jun 07 - 03:23 PM
Malcolm Douglas 02 Jun 07 - 04:16 PM
Joe Offer 02 Jun 07 - 09:23 PM
Malcolm Douglas 02 Jun 07 - 11:56 PM
Joe Offer 27 Oct 09 - 02:30 AM
GUEST,Return of Mary Vickery 22 Dec 10 - 05:07 PM
EBarnacle 22 Dec 10 - 05:41 PM
GUEST 22 Dec 10 - 07:10 PM
Joe Offer 23 Dec 10 - 03:44 AM
meself 23 Dec 10 - 10:51 AM
Bob the Postman 23 Dec 10 - 11:57 AM
meself 23 Dec 10 - 12:31 PM
Joe Offer 19 Apr 14 - 04:50 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 19 Apr 14 - 07:10 PM
GUEST,jim bainbridge 20 Apr 14 - 08:31 AM
Joe Offer 20 Apr 14 - 11:37 PM
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Subject: Oran Na Caillich-Gaelic Song from Codroy Valley
From: Cliff
Date: 28 Dec 97 - 09:13 PM

I am looking for a song collected from Allan MacArthur of the Codroy Valley (Newfoundland) which is called Oran Na Caillich (Song of the Old Women). It is a Scottish gaelic Milling Song and it appears in one of the three volumes of the book Songs of the Newfoundland Outports. It is also on the LP of the same name which was released by Pigeon Inlet Records. Quite a few Gaelic speaking people emmigrated from Scotland to Cape Breton and eventually to the Codroy Valley region of Newfoundland. Alan was one of the last native speakers in Newfoundland.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Murray
Date: 30 Dec 97 - 03:08 AM

It's probably not worth while typing the thing in here--send me a message via E-mail [murray@saltspring.com] and I'll get it to you. I hope your Gaelic is up to snuff; Peacock doesn't provide a translation. Cheers Murray


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 08:48 PM

As I've mentioned in other threads, I've been looking for this three-volume set for quite soem time. I thought I had it for $60 plus shipping, but the merchant took it off the market as soon as I inquired. Now I've found volumes 1 and 2 for $75, and Volume 3 for $35 - consideraby more than I wanted to pay. Can anybody give me an assessment of this book? Is it really an essential work, or am I better off looking for MacKenzie's Nova Scotia book or something else?
Are the recordings available on CD?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 09:37 PM

Some are, or were. The books are well worth having. There are some gaps in Peacock's background knowledge, particularly with reference to British antecedents of some songs, but these days we have easy access to many more resources than he did. My set was not cheap; I had to buy it from a dealer in Newfoundland (oddly enough) who didn't take credit cards and had to have a banker's draft. Couldn't afford that now! The price you've got is less than I paid two years ago.

The reprint of MacKenzie can be had for less, but I haven't seen that yet.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: masato sakurai
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 09:56 PM

W[illiam] Roy Mackenzie's Ballads and Sea Songs from Nova Scotia (1928) was reprinted by Folklore Associates (Hatboro, PA) in 1963, with a new foreword by G. Malcolm Laws. It includes 162 songs with bibliographic notes, but most are without tunes.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:57 PM

Cheapest I've found for MacKenzie is about $45. Maybe I'll wait.
i base a lot of my purchasing on the Bibliography of the traditional Ballad Indfex. Neither Peacock or MacKenzie are listed there yet - but I'm sure they will be. I did buy two books from the bibliography this evening.
-joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 11:34 PM

Peacock has music for all songs, about 400. It would take a while, but would an index be useful?
When it was issued, copies were furnished to many libraries across Canada. I have no idea of the printing, but I doubt it was more than 1000 sets. Many libraries have discarded them, so the set is very hard to consult. The 3 for $110 is not much more than the $90 I paid for a library discard set about 3 years ago.
The Mackenzie is a bargain considering its scarcity.
Creighton's, having been reprinted by Dover, is cheap at the moment.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 11:44 PM

Q, please do consider posting the index. As far as I can tell, the set is not indexed online. As we've already seen with the school songbook indexing project, online indexing can be very helpful. this thread right here might be a good place to post the index.
Thanks, Q.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Nerd
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 12:10 AM

Probably about five years ago I talked with Jim Payne (of Singsong records) and Don Walsh in Newfoundland. They were working on a CD ROM of the Peacock that would include the full text of all three volumes plus clips from the field recordings. They were well into digitizing it all then, but I haven't spoken with either of them since. If you're comfortable with CD ROm format, it might be worth waiting a couple of years before spending heavily on the Peacock.


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Subject: Index: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports vol. 1
From: karen k
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:05 AM

Joe,
Here's the index list for volume 1. I'll post volumes 2 and 3 separately as they are very long. Some songs have more than one version. They are good books.

Songs of the Newfoundland Outports vol. 1

Alouette
Alphabet Song
Bachelor's Hall
Banks of Newfoundland, The (American)
Banks of Newfoundland, The (Canadian)
Bar the Door O
Bill Wiseman
Blueberry Ball, The
Bold Trooper, The
Bonny Busk of London, The
British Man-O'-War
Brown Flour
Bury Me Not in the Deep Deep Sea
Butter and Cheese
Cabbage and Goose
Cambric Shirt, The
Cod-Liver Oil
Crew from Boston Bay, The
Crockery Ware
Crowd of Bold Shareman, A
Cuckoo's Nest, The
Culling Fish
Derby Ram, The
Doran's Ass
Eggs and Marrow-Bones
Fanny's Harbour Bawn
Farmer's Curst Wife, The
Feller from Fortune
Ferryland Sealer
Finnigan Lasses, The
Fish and Brewis
Fisher Who Died in His Bed, The
Fisherman's Alphabet, The
Flora and Jim
Foolish Shepherd, The
For the Fish We Must Prepare
Fox and the Goose, The
Gay Maid of Australia, The
George Bunker
Grandfather Bryan
Gray Mare, The
Gypsy Laddie-O
Handsome Cabin Boy, The
Harbour Le Cou
Hard Times
Harmless Young Jim
Hembrick Town
Herring Gibbers, The
High Times in Our Ship
I Got a Bonnet Trimmed with Blue
I'll Be Seventeen Come Sunday
In Duckworth Street There Lived a Dame
Indian Lament, The
Indian's Lament, The
I's the B'y That Builds the Boat
Jack the Jolly Tar
Jessie Munro
Jimmy and Nancy on the Sea
Joey Long's Goat
Jubilee Guild, The
Kate's Big Shirt
King's Daughter, The
Labrador
Lady Leroy, The
Leather Britches
Leg of Mutton Went over to France, A
Lord Bateman
Lullaby
Maid and the Horse, The
Maid on the Shore O, The
Mallard, The
Mary Had a William Goat
Mary Neal
Maurice Crotty
Moonshine Can, The
Moose Song, The
My Father Gave Me
My Gallant Brigantine
My Good-Looking Man
Oh No, Not I
Old Bo's'n, The
Old Grandma
Old Grandma Hones
Old Jack
Old Mayflower, The
Old Tommy Kendall
Olden Days
On the Schooner John Joe
One Thing or the Other, The
Our Island Is Covered with Fog
Paper of Pins, A
Pat O'Reilly
Pork in the Cupboard
Pretty Ploughboy, The
Rich Merchant's Daughter, The
Rich Wedding Cake, The
Sealers' Ball, The
Sir William
Skipper Tom
Soldier's Lament, The
Sporting Maggie
Squarin'-Up Time
Taking Back Gear in the Night
Tale of Jests, A
Tarry Sailor
Terry Toole's Cabbage
Three Lost Babes of Americay, The
Tinker Behind the Door, The
Tom Bird's Dog
Watercresses
Week's Work, A
Whaling Song
White Man, Let Me Go
Yankee Shore
Yorkshire Boy, The


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Subject: Index: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports vol. 2
From: karen k
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:23 AM

Songs of the Newfoundland Outports vol. 2

All Hands Away Tomorrow
Alone On the Shamrock Shore
Alonzo the Brave and Fair Imogene
Anchors Aweigh, Love
As I Walked Forth in the Pride of the Season
Banks of Penmanah, The
Banks of the Ayr, The
Banks of the Roses, The
Beach of Strablane, The
Belle Nanon
Beloved Land, The
Blackwater Side, The
Blooming Mary Ann
Blue Jacket and White Trousers
Bold Escallion and Phoebe
Bouncing Girl in Fogo, The
Brave Volunteers, The
Bright Phoebe
Brown Girl, The
Caroline and Her Young Sailor Bold
Charming Sally Greer
Crazy Jane
Dark-Eyed Sailor, The
Diana and Her Sailor Bright
Early Spring
Emigrant from Newfoundland, The
Erin's Green Shore
Fair Eleanor
Fair Fanny Moore
Fair Marjorie's Ghost
False Maiden, The
Fare You Well, Maggie Darling, Across the Blue Sea
Female Smuggler, The
Flora
Foggy Dew (English)
Foggy Dew (Irish)
Forsaken Mother and Child, The
Girl I Left Behind, The
Go and Leave Me If You Wish, Love
Gold Watch and Chain
Golden Glove, The
Green Grows the Laurels
Green Linnet, The
Green Mossy Banks of the Lea
Green Shores of Fogo, The
I Long to Be Wedding
I'm Sitting on the Stile, Mary
In Courtship There Lies Pleasure
Irish Colleen, The
Jimmy and Nancy (the departure)
Jimmy and Nancy (the return)
Jimmy Whelan
John Barbour
John Burke
Johnny Coughlin
Johnny Dunlay
Johnny from Hazelgreen
Knight and the Labourman's Daughter, The
Lady Margaret
Lady's Waiting-Man, The
Land and a Lass, The
Lass of Swansea Town, The
Letters of Love, The
Lily of the West, The
Lord Donald
Lord Thomas and Fair Ellinor
Love Is Lovely
Lovely Irish Maid, The
Lovely Lowland Maid, The
Lovely Nancy
Lovely Newfoundlander, The
Lover's Trial, The
Maid of Newfoundland, The
Maid of Sweet Gartheen
Mantle So Green, The
Milkman's Lament, The
Monday Morning
Murder of Ann O'Brien, The
My Bonny Irish Boy
My Bonny Labouring Boy
My Flora and Me
My Handsome Sailor Boy
My Old Dudeen
Nancy From London
New York Trader
Oh Write Me Down, Ye Powers Above
Old Oak Tree, The
Old Robin Gray
On Board the Victory
Parting Glass, The
Polly Oliver
Prentice Boy in Love, The
Pride of Glencoe, The
Pride of the Shamrock Shore
Sailor and the Lady, The
Sea Ghost, The
Seven Years I Loved a Sailor
Ship's Carpenter, The
Since Love Can Enter and Iron Door
Slaney Side, The
Soldier and the Lady, The
Soldier, Maid, The
Star of Belle Isle, The
Suffolk Miracle, The
Sweet Florella
Sweet Mossy Banks of thte Wey, The
Twas Getting Up Late in September
Unquiet Grave, The
Wexford Girl, The
William and Mary
Willie
Worcester Tragedy, The
Yound Edmond of the Lowlands Low
Young Fisherman, The
Young Kitty Lee
Young Melvyn
Young Sally Monro


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Subject: Index: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports vol. 3
From: karen k
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 01:29 AM

Songs of the Newfoundland Outports vol. 3

As Susan Strayed the Briny Beach
Babes in the Greenwood, The
Banks of Newfoundland, The
Banks of the Gaspereau, The
Barbara Allen
Betsy, Betsy from London Fair
Bird Rocks, The
Black Devil, The
Bloody Garden, The
Blow the Wind Westerly
Bold Lamkin
Bold McCarthy
Bold Princess Royal, The
Bold Wolfe
Bonavist Line, The
Bonny Banks of Ardrie-O
Bonny Bunch of Roses O, The
Bound Down for Newfoundland
Boys at Ninety-Five, The
Bull Yorkens
Bully Brown
Captain Kidd
Captain Strachan
Captain Ward
Captains and Ships
Captain's Lady, The
Cashmere Shawl, The
Charles Augustus Anderson
Christmas Rum
Cumberland and the Merrimac, The
Deserter, The
Dixie's Isle
Donald Munro
Downey's Our Member
Drill Ye Heroes Drill!
Drunken Captain, The
Elderman's Lady, They
Eleven to Heaven
Flemings of Torbay, The
Flying Cloud, The
General Munro
George's Banks
Gerry Ryan
Ghostly Sailors, The
Girls of NewFoundland, The
Golden Hind, The
Good-bye My Lovely Annie
Greenland Disaster, The
Grief Is a Knot
Heights of Alma, The
Henry and Nancy
Here's Adieu to Old England
He's Young but He's Daily Growing
High Germany
Hurling Down the Pine
Jam at Garby's Rock, The
Jimmy and Nancy
Johnny Doyle
Jolly Butcherman, The
Kelly the Pirate
Last Great Charge, The
Liza Gray
Loggers' Plight, The
Lonely Waterloo
Loss of the Atlantic, The
Loss of the Barbara Ann Ronney, The
Loss of the Bruce, The
Loss of the City of Quebec, The
Loss of the Danny Goodwin, The
Loss of the Eliza, The
Loss of the John Harvey, The
Loss of the Jubal Cain, The
Loss of the Rammelly, The
Loss of the Regalis, The
Loss of the Riseover, The
Loss of the Sailor's Home, The
Loss of the Shamrock, The
Loss of the Titanic, The
Loss of theJewel, The
Mary Vickery and Connelly Donnelly
Murder of Alfreda Pike, The
Murder of Donald Somers, The
Napoleon's Farewell to Paris
Newfoundland Disaster, The
Nobleman's Wedding, The
On Board of the Ninety-Eight
Ordeal of Andrew Rose, The
O'Reilly the Fisherman
Peter's Banks
Plains of Waterloo, The (I)
Plains of Waterloo, The (II)
Rambling Young Fellow, The
Reid's Express
River Driver's Lament, The
Riverhead La'nchin' on Jubilee Day, The
Rosy Banks of Green, The
Sailor's Alphabet, The
Saladin Mutiny, The
Sally's Cove Tragedy, The
She Died in Love
Sheffield Apprentice, The
She's Like the Swallow
Ship That Never Came, The
Sir James the Rose
Soldier Boy, The
Southern Cross, The
Spanish Main, The
Spring of '97, The
Stowaway, The
Strawberry Tower
There Was a Lady in the East
Thomas and Nancy
Track to Knob Lake, The
Twelve Apostles, The
Twin Lakes
Two Brothers, The
Union from St. John's, The
Waterloo
When I Was a Young Thing
Who Is at My Window Weeping?
William Craig and Bold Manone
Woods of Michigan, The
Wreck of the , Semmity, The
Wreck of the Morrissey, The
Young Bung-'er-eye
Young Chambers
Young Charlotte
Young Collins Green
Young Daniel
Young Henry
Young Ship's Carpenter, The

Hope these help you, Joe.

karen


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Joe Offer
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 02:32 AM

Thank you, Karen.

As many of you may know, my birthday's in August...
;-)

-Joe Offer-
(Who says begging is beneath me?)


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 02:50 PM

Thanks for the Index, Karen. I was afraid Joe would take up my offer, and am glad you stepped in.

A number of the titles are local. Here are the ones with alternative names or that have been derived from another version.
Proper indexing should contain entries for alternate names. Not done in Peacock. Some are impossible to guess at (e. g., The Loss of the Eliza - The Herons).

The Banks of the Ayr - Burns and His Highland Mary
Blooming Mary Ann - Lovely Mary Ann
Bold McCarthy - The City of Baltimore
The Bold Trooper - The Cropped Tailor
The Bonavist Line - The Riverhead Line
The Bonny Banks of Ardrie-O - Babylon, Child
The Bonny Busk of London - The Twa Sistrs (Child 10)
Bound Down for Newfoundland - The Schooner Mary Ann
The Cambric Shirt - The Elfin Knight (Child 2)
The Deserter - When the Battle It Is Won
Donald Munro - Daniel Munro - You Sons of North Britain
The Drunken Captain - In Canso Strait
Early Spring - The Young Bride's Lament
Fair Marjorie's Ghost - Fair Margaret and Sweet William (Child 74-B)
Feller from Fortune - Lots of Fish in Bonavist Harbour
Flora - The Stormy Winds of Winter
The Foolish Shepherd - The Baffled Knight (Child 112)
George's Banks - The Shea Gang
Gold Watch and Chain - The Female Highwayman
The Gray Mare - Roger the Miller
Hembrick Town - Katherine Jaffray (Child 221)
High Times in Our Ship - Martin Hurley
I Long to Be Wedding - The Old Maid's Song
I'm Sitting on the Stile, Mary - The Irish Immigrant
John Barbour - Willie O Winsbury (Child 100)
The King's Daughter - Lady Isabel and the Elf Knight (Child 4)
Lady Margaret - Sweet William's Ghost (Child 77)
Liza Gray - The "Lady of the Lake"
Lord Bateman - Young Beichan (Child 53)
Lord Donald - Little Musgraver ... (Child 81)
The Loss of the Eliza - The Herons
The Maid on the Shore O - The Young Sea Captain
The Mantle So Green - Famed Waterloo
Nancy from London - Tall Grow the Rushes
The Nobleman's Wedding - The Green Willow Tree - The Awful Wedding
The Old Bo's'n - The Boatswain and the Tailor
The Sailor and the Lady - The Rich Merchant
The Sealers' Ball - Be Ye Much of a Hand Aboard a Vessel
Seven Years I Loved a Sailor - Flowery Garden
She Died in Love - The Butcher Boy
The Ship's Carpenter - The Gosport Tragedy
Sir William - The Knight and Shepherd's Daughter (Child 110)
The Slaney Side - The Tanyard Side
The Soldier and the Lady - The Nightingale
Strawberry Tower - Strawbello Strand
Taking Back Gear in the Night - Gerry Fudge
A Tale of Jests - The Lie Song
A Week's Work - A Week's Work Well Done - The Holly Twig
Whaling Song - The Greenland Whale Fishery
The Woods of Michigan - Harry Dunn - The Hanging Limb
The Worcester Tragedy - The Cruel Miller - The Miller Boy
The Yorkshire Boy - Well Sold the Cow
The Young Ship's Carpenter - The Daemon Lover (Child 243)


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: GUEST,Don Walsh
Date: 22 Jul 04 - 02:52 PM

I had an email from Joe Offer about a project I've been working on to digitize the Songs of the Newfoundland Outports. He asked me to relay my reply to him here. Here's what I had to say about his question concerning the availability of the CD-Rom project.
___________________________________

Hi Joe

Yes indeed we are still working on it. Actually it's finished and we are hoping to release it very soon. It was a long time in the works but it's finally ready.

It includes the full text of all 517 songs in the three volumes plus the music script plus all the photos plus midi versions of each song. There are 268 songs that have the first verse from the singer recorded on the original field tapes. We also tried to include a full song from each contributor, there are 59 of those. Unfortunately when Peacock was first collecting there were no tape recorders so some of the songs were just collected on manuscript. Any song that is in the collection that was on the original field tapes has at least the first verse included.

Check back with be periodically and I'll keep you informed as to our progress. I'm waiting for Jim to return from a road trip and we're going to be sending it to press then.

Cheers
Don
don@donwalsh.com


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: karen k
Date: 23 Jul 04 - 12:07 AM

Don,
Wow! This will be great. Can't wait. Just start a thread here on Mudcat when it is ready. I, for one, will be in line for one.

Q, Thanks for the above post. It will be very helpful for a project I am working on. Thanks.   k


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: sian, west wales
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 07:49 AM

I just thought that I would mention that there is an article in the Canadian Journal for Traditional Music, Vol. 30, 2003 by Anna Kearney Guigne titled "The Songs That Nearly Got Away: An Examination of the Unpublished Portion of Kenneth Peacock's Newfoundland Field Collection".

Abstract: Kenneth Peacock's Songs of the Newfoundland Outports as and still is a landmark collection of Maritime music. But for several reasons, Peacock did not include in the publication all the songs he had collected. This article examines the reasons for non-inclusion and explores the hidden value of this unpublished music.


siân


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Willie-O
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 09:16 AM

That's an exhaustive-looking collection! And there's still more.

A friend of mine who did the master's in Folklore program at Memorial spent a lot of time transcribing lyrics and tunes of a large number of songs which had been recorded/collected by students in that program and then shelved...we've been meaning to take a look at what she's got. The tunes are MIDI files for an Apple II so there's a bit of a technology problem.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Nerd
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 11:23 AM

Kenny Goldstein's Newfoundland collections run to thousands of items and most of it is unpublished. The Memorial archives have copies of his tapes as well.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Peter T.
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 12:49 PM

Just a reminder that Peacock's album and others are available online from Smithsonian Folkways (I spent a pleasant vacation last month wandering Newfoundland with a whole pile of Newfie music -- though I am afraid to say that Newfie country and western music is everywhere and is dire, musical kudzu).

yours,

Peter T.


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Subject: Sea Songs and Ballads from Nineteenth-Century Nova
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Jul 04 - 11:22 PM

The bulk of this thread has dealt with the Peacock collection, but there has been mention of a few other collections from that part of the world. At the risk of thread drift (not to mention stating what the contributors to this thread already know) I have added a list of some other books that focus on folk songs from maritime Canada.

Creighton, Helen (1961): Maritime Folk Songs. Ryerson Press, Toronto. 214 pages.(lib cong 62-11386)

Creighton, Helen (1971): Folksongs From Southern New Brunswick. National Museums of Canada, Ottawa. 238 pages.

Creighton,Helen (Ed.) (1966): Songs And Ballads From Nova Scotia. Dover, New York. 334 pages. (Lib Cong. 66-26823)

Karppeles, Maud (1970): Folk Songs from Newfoundland. Archon Books, Hamden, CT. 338 pages.    (isbn 0 208 01142)

Greenleaf, Elisabeth Bristol; Mansfield, Grace Yarrow (Eds.) (1933 (reprint 1968)): Ballads And Sea Songs Of Newfoundland. Harvard Univ Press (reprint Folklore Associates), Cambridge, MA (Hatboro, PA). 395 pages.

Doyle, Gerald S (1966): Old-Time Songs and Poetry of Newfoundland, 4th edition. Gerald S. Doyle Limited, St John's, Newfoundland. 68 pages.

Drake, Lyle (2000): We'll Rant and We'll Roar, More All Time Favorite Songs of Newfoundland, Vol. 2. Tilt Hill Publishing, Torbay, Newfoundland, Canada. 46 pages.    (isbn 0-96873-0-1)

Fowke, Edith (Ed.) (1981): Sea Songs and Ballads from Nineteenth-Century Nova Scotia. The William H. Smith and Fenwick Hatt Manuscripts. Folklorica, New York. 118 pages. (isbn 0-939544-04-0)

The Doyle and Drake books are song books in the truest sense. They have lyrics and tunes for singing but no background information. Drake also has guitar chords (And a Vol. 1 also).

The Fowke book (Smith & Hatt)is a little interesting bit of arcana that would make a nice footnote as it were to someone's collection of the more serious texts. The copy I have is paperback, so it should be cheap, although maybe hard to find. For that reason I have listed both the index and the recording list from the book.


Sea Songs and Ballads from Nineteenth-Century Nova Scotia. The William H. Smith and Fenwick Hatt Manuscripts
INDEX OF TITLES AND FIRST LINES

Aint a-looking to de right 32
AROUND THE WORLD AND HOME AGAIN 41
ARRIVING BACK AT LIVERPOOL 13
As I walked down fair London Street 20
As I went walking one evening of late 67
THE BANKS OF BRANDY WINE 64
THE BANKS OF NEWFOUNDLAND 18; 56
Before I work for a dollar a day 45
Before I'll be cowed down by you 46
THE BIG FIVE GALLON JAR 16
TIlE BLIND SAILOR 76
Blow me right up and blow me right down 21
BLOW THE MAN DOWN 21
BOLD JACK DONAHOE 104
Both high and low attention give .61
BOUND TO RIO 20
THE BOUNTY JUMPER 92
THE BRAES OF BALQUIDDER 84
THE BRAES OF BILLQUITHER 84
BRIGANTINE SOROCCO 15
THE CABIN BOY 83
THE CITY OF BALTIMORE 46
Come all ye bold heighweyman 104
Come all ye jolly semen bold 76
Oome all you nice young fellows 92
Come all you policemen of Halifax 74
THE CUMBERLAND'S CREW 102
THE DESOLATE WIDDOW 89
Down by the seaside 89
Farewell you girls of this cold countree 23
FIRE IN THE FORETOP 39
THE FROZEN GIRL 51
THE GHOSTLY SAILORS 96
Go round the Horn to California 37
GOODBYE FARE YE WELL 34
HANGMAN JOHNNIE 26
HARBOUR GRACE 35
Harbour Grace is a pretty place 35
Haul away on de Alabamy bo'line 33
HAUL THE ALABAMA BOWLINE 33
I am a rambling Irish man 86
I hope you'll lend an ear 96
I shipped in the Mary, belonging to Starr 14
ISLE OF FUGI 29
It was a cold day in last November 42
It was April on the fourteenth day 72
It's watch her and twig her 15
I've sailed among the Yankees 41
LAY OUT, TAKE SHEETS AND HAUL 42
LIVERPOOL PACKET 19
THE MARY 14
[MIND HOW YOU TRIFLE WITH A GUN] 72
Now we are a sailing down the wild Irish sea 19
Now we are coming round the Black Rock 13
Oh fire in the foretop, and don't you go 39
Oh, I'll cut up my petticoats 18
Oh Mexico, fine rosies grow 27
Oh Shiloh had a baby 22
Oh shipmates come gather and join in my dity 102
Oh the pail moon was raising 100
Oh they call me Hangman Johnnie 26
Oh willie dear willie says she 83
OLD ENGLAND'S GAINED THE DAY 31
OLD HOSS 44
Old hoss, old hoss, how came you here? 44
OLD MOTHER HEAD'S 11
ON THE BANKS OF NEWFOUNDLAND 56
ON THE BANKS OF THE SACREMENTO 37
ON THE PLAINS OF MEXICO 27
One evening in august 79
One evening of late when our labours was o'er 59
One morn for recreation as I strayed by the seaside 70
One morning very early 64
Our bark was out, far, far from land 47
OUR FIFER BOY 94
Our vessel belonging to Lunenburg 12
THE PRIDE OF GLENCO(E) 67
THE RAMBLING IRISH MAN 86
ROLLING HOME TO'MERRY ENGLAND 40
Rolling home to merry England 40
THE ROSE OF BRITAIN'S ISLE 61
THE ROSE OF BRITON'S ISLE 61
THE ROSE OF TRALEE 100
SAILOR'S BURIAL AT SEA 47
SAUER KRAUT 12
SAY OLD MAN 25
Say old man, your horse is going to die 25
SCREWING IN SONG 45
Sebastapol is taken 31
SHENADORE 24
Shenadore, I love your daughter 24
SHILOH BROWN 22
THE SHIP LADY SHERBROOKE 79
THE SHIP LADY SHEREBROOK 79
[THE SHOOTING STAR] 74
SWEET JINNY ON THE MOR 70
The first time I came to Liverpool 16
Then I'm bound for the Isle of Fugi 29
THEN TURN OUT YOU JOLLY TARS 38
Then turn out you jolly tars 38
To a boardinghouse across the street 11
To me way-hey, hey-hip-hey 28
WALKING IN DE MIDDLE OF DE ROAD 32
WAY DOWN IN TENNESSEE 23
WE'LL PAY PADDY ,DOYLE FOR HIS BOOTS 28
We're homeward bound and I love that sound 34
WHAT YOU GOING TO DO WITH A DRUNKEN SAILOR? 86
What you goin' to do with a drunken sailor? 36
While the battle hot was raging 94
WHISKEY FOR MY JOHNNIE 30
Whiskey gave me a broken nose 30
Will you go lassie go to the brase of billquither 84
THE WORN OUT SAILOR 59
Ye landsmen all on you I call 56
Young Charlotte lived by the mountain side 51


RECORD LIST

Clark Records LCS 109. Canadian Folk Sound with LaRena. Sung by LaRena Clark.

Folk Legacy FSC 10. Tom Brandon of Peterborough, Ontario.
Folkways 3809. Fine Times at Our House. Collected by Pat Dunford and Art Rosenbaum. .
Folkways 4001. Wolf River Songs. Collected by Sidney Robertson Cowell.
Folkways 4006. Folk Music from Nova Scotia. Collected by Helen Creighton.

Folkways 4018. Songs of the Great Lakes. Collected by Edith Fowke.

Folkways 4051. Irish and British Songs from the Ottawa Valley. Sung by O. J. Abbott.

Folkways 4075. Songsfrom the Outports of Newfoundland. Collected by MacEdward Leach.

Folkways 4307. Maritime Folk Songs. Collected by Helen Creighton.

Folkways 8782. Traditional Music of Ireland, Vol. 2. Recorded by Samuel B. Charters.

Folkways 8872. As I Roved Out (Field Trip-Ireland). Collected by Jean Ritchie.

Library of Congress L14. Anglo-American Songs and Ballads. Edited by Duncan Emrich.
Library of Congress L26. American Sea Songs and Shanties. Edited by Duncan Emrich.

Library of Congress L27. American Sea Songs and Shanties. Edited QY Duncan Emrich.

Library of Congress L29. Songs and Ballads of American History. Edited by Duncan Emrich.

New World NW 239. Brave Boys. Edited by Sandy Paton.

Philo 1002. Ted Ashlaw, Adirondack Woods Singer. Recorded by Robert D. Bethke.

Prestige/International 13018. McPeake Family of Belfast.

School of Scottish Studies AO03/4. Gaelic and Scots Folk Songs. Edited by Hamish Henderson.

Topic 12T84. The Roving Journeyman. Sung by the Willett Family..

Topic 12T85. Princess of the Thistle: Lizzie Higgins.

Topic 12TS260. Up and Awa' wi' the Laverock. Lizzie Higgins.

Topic 12TS263. The Singing Molecatcher of Morayshire. Sung by John Macdonald.

Topic 12TS324. Round Rye Bay for More. Sung by Johnny Doughty..

Vanguard VRS 9158. Songs and Ballads of the Ozarks. Sung by Almeda Riddle.

Wattle Archives Series 1. Australian Traditional Singers and Musicians. Collected by John Meredith and Members of the Australian Folklore Society.

Wattle Archives Series 2. Australian Traditional Singers and Musicians in Victoria. Collected by Members of the Folklore Society of Victoria.        .


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: GUEST,Newf
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 02:14 AM

Uh, thanks. But at the risk of further thread drift, Newfoundland is not part of "Maritime Canada"; in fact, there's no such thing. There's "The Maritimes" which includes PEI, Nova Scotia and New Brunswick, and there's "Atlantic Canada," which also includes Newfoundland and Labrador.

Also, your record list is mostly irrelevant.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 25 Jul 04 - 08:39 AM

A more complete listing of literature on folk songs of both Maritime and Atlantic Canada is contained in Fowke, Edith, 1976, Folklore of Canada, McClelland and Stewart. Her bibliographic section on "Canadiens" lists papers little known outside of French-speaking Canada, but important to any consideration of Canadian folk song.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: GEST
Date: 09 Aug 04 - 08:08 PM

Incidentally, there is a links page on the sidebar at GEST Songs Of Newfoundland And Labrador devoted to Kenneth Peacock's Collection.

Although far from complete, the page may be of some help to those researching individual songs. As always, we welcome transcriptions and constructive input from site users. :-)

http://www.wtv-zone.com/phyrst/audio/nfld/outports.htm


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: GUEST,Bromley
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 12:09 PM

Though I eagerly await Singsong's CD ROM project, I would love to track down a hard copy of the Peacock Collection. Anyone with a suggestion of where to start looking?


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Aug 04 - 12:46 PM

This link is to a search routine at BookFinder.com rather than to search results, so it should remain up-to-date. Copies of the books are usually to be had from somewhere or other.

Songs of the Newfoundland Outports


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: mg
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 08:53 PM

Brings Back Memories..I knew Anna Kearney before she was a Mrs. What a beautiful voice..I wonder if she has any cd's out?????
Anna, are you here?
mg


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: EBarnacle
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:50 AM

I happen to have a copy of MacKenzie. If there is a song you wish, PM me and I will get the words to you. EB


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Seecora
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 05:38 PM

Would someone here be so very kind and help me out?

I am writing a diploma thesis on Child ballads found in Canada (but I am from Europe and have no access to books on this topic) and would very very very much appreciate if someone provided me with a few commentaries/lyrics of the songs concerned, as noted in Peacock's Songs of the Newfoundland Outports.

This is an important project for me; I would like to make it as objective, informative and interesting as possible.

Perhaps I can offer something in return? Perhaps someone has similar interests and would like to discuss individual songs with me?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

:-) S.

agrar@hotmail.com


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 03 Dec 04 - 08:31 PM

Seecora, what you are asking is not easy.
How it is possible to write a thesis without consulting the pertinent references is beyond my ken.
1. The main Canadian references list the songs by local title and under genre (Humor, pirates, murder, etc.) in the indexes, Peacock being one of these. The reference must be perused to identify the Child ballads.
2.Does the Canadian collection have a twist, or variant, that changes the meaning of the original? In other words, why is it of interest? 3.Is it identified only because there is a verse (or few) that is a floater, used in later songs, but the content is entirely different? Simply recording the presence of a Child ballad is insufficient to characterize the content.
4.Does the song appear with a specific group of immigrants? Has the song instead been diseminated by broadsides or songbooks?
5.What songs have not been brought beyond the manuscript stage and into publication?

In connetion with checking the occurrence of a couple of Child ballad variants, I happen to have a list of those appearing in Peacock. There are 23. Many have a local title.
Cambric Shirt- Child 2
Bonny Busk of London- Child 10
Gypsy Laddie-O - Child 200
Hambrick Town- Child 221
The King's Daughter- Child 4
Lord Bateman- 53
Rich Merchant's Daughter- 283
Sir William- 110
Bar the Door O- 275
Farmer's Curst Wife- 278
The Foolish Shepherd- 112
Fair Marjorie's Ghost- 74B
Lady Margaret- 77
Lord Donald- 81
Lord Thomas and Fair Ellinor- 73
Barbara Allen- 84
Sir James the Rose- 213
Young Ship's Carpenter- 243
The Babes in the Greenwood- 20
Bold Lamkin- 93
Bonny Banks of Ardrie-O -14
The Two Brothers- 49
Captain Ward- 288


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Seecora
Date: 04 Dec 04 - 05:00 AM

Q, thank you for your response. I appreciated all of your questions/comments, and would like to give more detail as to what my goal is...

I am not an expert on Child Ballads, but this has been of interest to me for many years. I am now in the stage of analysing/comparing variants that I find elswhere (in different languages as well). A passion of mine, really.

My choice of writing about Child ballads in Canada is not a random one. I lived in Canada for four years and gathered many songs and a few collections of songs (Creighton, Fowke) while still there. This doesn't, however, provide we with sufficient primary/secondary literature.

Your questions go straight to the point and are well-founded.
"Simply recording the presence of a Child ballad is insufficient to characterize the content", as you rightly say. But this should be a linguistic/literary task, and my analysis would be based on the aspects of language and style found in those ballads - meaning, metaphor, lexis, etc. as compared to the 'original' Child ballads. The song's context cannot surely be ommited (your questions #4 and #5), but I would like to keep it in the background, concentrating on the linguistic and stylistic choices.

Perhaps I really am too naive to want to give concrete form to a project of this scope.

But my dream is to find someone - a kindred soul - for whom it would be interesting and perhaps in some way enriching to discuss a song here and a song there, for the sheer pleasure of it.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 03:46 PM

The indexes to Peacock's three volumes, posted by Karen K, are incomplete. Songs in French are not listed.
There are sixteen in vol. 1:

Le marché des animaux p 18
Le bonhomme tombe de l'arbre 45
Il faut voir que je me Savais 62
Si j'avais le bateau 96
La plainte du capitaine 161
Le beau militaire 168
Le beau monsieur tire ses gantes blancs 170
La belle cherche son amant 172
Blanche comme la neige 174
Dans les prisons de Nantes 183
Bergère fait du fromage 241
Le bon vin 249
C'est à Paris y-a-t'une noce 255
La jeune fille sans amant 293
Le mari de quatre-vingt-dix ans 298
Mon bon ami va venir ce soir 300

Also missing:
Bury Me Not on the Lone Prairie 153


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Frank Maher
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 04:03 PM

Hey,Peter T..What does Kudzu Mean??It's not in My Newfoundland Dictionary of Bad Words!!


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Aug 05 - 10:48 PM

Songs in Peacock, not in list for vol. 2, and corrections:

Une belle récompense 326
Dessur le pont de Nantes 331
La fille de la garnison 335
La fille soldat de Monticonteur 338
La belle regrette son amour tendre 430
Adieu de la mariée à ses parents 492
L'amant à la fenêtre de sa maîtresse 493
Boire un p'tit coup, c'est agréable 508
C'était trois jeunes garçons partis pour un voyage 512
En revenant de la jolie Rochelle 517
La jeune fille si amoureuse 525
La jolie fille et ses deux amants 539
Ma petite Marguerite 558
Quand j'étais fille de quinze ans 581
Le soleil s'en va se coucher 596

Annie Franklin 420
*Green Grows the Laurel 454
*Green Grow the Laurels 456
(*Combined into one title in karen k list)
**A Lad and a Lass 542
(** Land and a Lass)


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Scotus
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 09:14 AM

Last year MUN published a reprint of Greenleaf and Mansfield's 'Ballads and Sea Songs of Newfoundland. Anna Kearney Giugne and Neil Rosenberg wrote the new foreword.

Jack


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 23 Aug 05 - 06:33 PM

Thank you; that's worth knowing. The new edition is also significantly cheaper than usual second-hand prices for the original edition or the 1960s reprint (it is a paperback, though).

Details are at  http://www.mun.ca/folklore/new/munflp/greenleaf.asp. The site doesn't work very well in non-Microsoft browsers.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: GUEST,Jim Payne
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 12:47 PM

In reply to a message from Joe Offer, yes indeed, the complete three volume set of Kenneth Peacock's Songs of the Newfoundland Outports is available on CD ROM. It includes everything that was in the original publication,(517 songs, lyrics and musical notation, Peacock's notes on songs, introduction, acknowledgements, and photos) as well as excerpts from original informant recordings, audio playback of written musical notation, and besides Peacock's original theme index, it has a regional and community index of songs and informants, singer index, and a first line index. All indices are cross referenced and the CD ROM includes a full lyric search as well as a bookmark feature. It also includes a full biography of Kenneth Peacock written by Anna Kearney Guigne. The CD ROM is available from SingSong Inc., Box 6371, St. John's, Newfoundland, A1C 6J9 for Cdn$69.00, which includes HST and postage.

http://www.singsonginc.ca/liners/cdoutport.html


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: karen k
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 01:13 PM

Wow, Jim I did not know about this. For us Americans it translates into about $58.50 I think. I am definitely getting this. Thanks Jim and Joe. Do they take American checks or what is the best way to handle this.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Sep 05 - 04:02 PM

Money Order or Visa; email to be sure.
SingSong
Click on Ordering for information.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: mg
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 01:01 AM

The main question is does Anna Kearney G. have a CD of herself singing? She is so wonderful. mg


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Scotus
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 09:41 AM

MG -
My wife did her doctorial studies on trad storytelling at MUN at the same time as Anna was completing her PhD and they did performances together, so we know how good a singer she is. Actually we all celebrated Burns' Night at her house when I flew in from Scotland one year.

As far as we know she hasn't recorded any of her singing, but I'll double check that for you.

Jack


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 04:35 PM

It's great to hear from Jim Payne on this list. If you ever get to see him and Fergus O'Byrne and The Crowd Of Bold Sharemen perform you will not soon fdorget it. The were a great hit at Celtic Colours !
             Slainte,
               Sandy


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 15 Sep 05 - 04:36 PM

"forget"
This damn computer can't spell !! :-}


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Sep 05 - 02:40 AM

I got my copy today, for $69 Canadian. I ordered through the SingSong Website (click) and backed up my order with an e-mail to Jim Payne. No problem with the credit card transaction.

The program is a nice piece of work. My one minor complaint is that the installation program did not allow me to choose the location for installation (I wanted to put it on D:\, and it would install only on C:\peacock. It also did not allow installation of the CD contents onto my hard drive.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 03:07 PM

Hi Joe

Jim Payne emailed me to let me know about the couple of concerns you had with your Peacock installation. Sorry about the fact that the program only installs to C:\Peacock and that it doesn't install the CD Contents onto your hard drive. Your absolutely right that it should have but believe it or not I had my reasons for setting it up that way :-) Anyway, here is what you can do work around it.

First let me address moving the CD data to your hard drive.
1)        In the opening screen do a "Right Click" on any part of the "Blue" colour on the left side of the screen. You will see a popup dialog that informs you that you are about to move the data files.
2)        Click Yes
3)        Click "Move the Files"
4)        The program shuts down when you're finished
5)        Restart the program and it's now reading the data files from C:\Peacock\Data

Next: Moving the program to another drive.
For example… moving it to the D Drive.
1)        Copy C:\Peacock to D:\Peacock
2)        Edit the Peacock.ini file (Now in D:\Peacock) and find these lines.

[DataPath]
MainDataPath=C:\Peacock\Data
IndexDataPath=C:\Peacock\Data

3) Change to:
[DataPath]
MainDataPath=D:\Peacock\Data
IndexDataPath=D:\Peacock\Data

3)        Erase the C:\Peacock folder.

The folder doesn't have to be Peacock it can be anything so long as it's listed in the ini file.
Hopefully this will setup the program the way you want it.

One other thing you might have noticed. On some machines the help files don't display when you enter the program from the icon that was created on the desktop. For some reason on some machines the "Start In" box in the Icon Properties was left blank. Have a look at
http://www.singsong.nfld.com/liners/windowsfix.html for a simple fix.

If you have any other concerns drop me an email and I'll see what I can do for you. I won't post my email address here (Spiders and all) but you can reach me at www.donwalsh.com

Cheers and enjoy the program
Don Walsh


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: lamarca
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 03:42 PM

Any chance of a Mac version for us non-Windows people? I actually have the three-volume paperback set of Peacock, but would love to be able to hear the tunes, instead of fumbling them out on my keyboard...


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Dave Ruch
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 08:11 PM

To those (Joe?) who are familiar with this new CD-ROM package, which sounds wonderful, a question - how much of the actual "informant's" singing of each song do you hear?


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 08:21 PM

Hi, Dave -

You don't hear the entire recording of the informant in each case, but I heard enough to be very satisfied. I'm still jealous of Larmarca and others who have the printed edition because there's something nice about having a book in your hands, but I can smugly say that I have many, many features that they don't have. Since I don't sight-read very well, it's nice to have the music in a form you can hear. I think Don and Jim did a wonderful job of the CD-ROM. Maybe we should negotiate with them to see if we could get the Digital Tradition in a similar package.

And I meant to tell Jim Payne and Don Walsh that after I figured out how to do the move the "hard way," I found that they have instructions in their Help utility that would have made it a lot easier - if only I had taken the time to read the instructions....

I installed the entire CD on my hard drive, which makes it a lot more convenient. Now I can put the disk in permanent storage and not have to go looking for it every time I want to look up a song.

-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 05 Oct 05 - 09:55 PM

Yes, I too like having the volumes in hand, but there is another drawback. Scanning is difficult because of the way the pages are held together in their paper binding. Scan or copy a number of the songs, and the volumes start to come apart.
I have pretty much convinced myself that I need the CD-Rom package as well as the volumes.

Now if they add Greenleaf and Mansfield-


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: GUEST,Don Walsh
Date: 06 Oct 05 - 10:41 AM

Hi Folks

You guys are right enough in saying that it's nice to have both the printed version and the multimedia version. I'm lucky enough to have both soft and hard cover editions of the printed version. Q you're right about the scanning… you should see the beating my soft-cover edition took in the process of preparing the multimedia version… it barley survived :-)

Dave… there are 517 songs total in the collection. Quite a few of the songs were collected before battery-operated tape recorders became available. The Canadian Museum of Civilization sent us about 40 hours of Peacock's field tapes which we went through. (That was a most enjoyable experience; there was quite a bit in there that didn't make it to the books.) We were able to match up 268 songs in the field tapes with the songs in the three volumes. Of course due to space constraints we couldn't use the whole song for all 268 so we decided to use the first verse (and chorus where the melody differed from the verse) and finding we still had space we also included 59 full songs, trying for at least one full song from each singer.

Q… Greenleaf and Mansfield and then maybe Maud Karpeles :-) I'd love to have them all in multimedia as well as the books. I found a copy of the Maud Karpeles "Folk Songs from Newfoundland" last December but alas I gave it to my girlfriend for a Christmas present but she says I can borrow it :-)

Iamicra… Sorry but there are no plans for a Mac version. Didn't someone tell me that newer Macs could run Windows programs? I know someone that has a Mac I should check it out for you.

Joe… glad you got the "moving the data" thing figured out and thanks for the email and complements.

Ok guys time to bring my car to the garage :-(

Cheers
Don Walsh


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Joe Offer
Date: 31 May 07 - 08:38 PM

So, now I tried to install Songs of the Newfoundland Outports on my new computer with Windows Vista, and I'm having all sorts of problems.
The error message I got during installation was "Unable to merge new configuration. Use BDE Administrator to merge your new configuration." BDE Administrator is some kind of Borland database program. The program comes from Singsong, Inc., and that firm's Website is no longer functioning.

Can anybody help?

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 31 May 07 - 10:38 PM

Surprised no one's mentioned the MacEdward Leach collection. A veritable whack of Gaelic songs from Cape Breton, along with all the Nfld stuff.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Howard Kaplan
Date: 31 May 07 - 10:52 PM

There are several Borland newsgroups available through Google Groups. When I entered the search string {"BDE Administrator" "Windows Vista"} (without the curly braces but with the doublequotes), I saw 11 messages, 7 of which were in English. (That's not too surprising -- Borland products seemed to sell better in Europe than in America.) In any case, perhaps looking at those messages or varying the search string would turn up something useful.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 12:01 AM

I hope you find the key, Joe. A mountain of material in the three volumes, and they are poorly bound.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: GEST
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 11:20 AM

Meself ~

MUNFLA's current on-line Leach Collection is rife with errors in transcription, history, and cross-references. It is difficult to put it on par with Kenneth Peacock's polished collection. I often get the impression students do the work for extra credit, but no one is checking the work well enough to remove even the blatant errors. For the past several years I have been working on the collection as time allows, and estimate about 75% of the GEST index is now complete, but the work is still ongoing....

Index of some of the Songs of Atlantic Canada and Folk Ballads and Songs of the Lower Labrador Coast Collected by Macedward Leach (1897-1967)

GEST Songs of Newfoundland and Labrador


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: GUEST,meself
Date: 01 Jun 07 - 02:58 PM

Great stuff, GEST. The appeal of that other Leach collection on-line, though, is that it has a host of field recordings available for your listening pleasure. So, in that sense, I suppose the sites complement each other. (Also, it has a good little essay by Peter Navarez, although it probably covers things that you're familiar with, given how far into this stuff you seem to be!).


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 03:23 PM

I got an e-mail back today from Singsong President Jim Payne. Programmer Don Walsh doesn't have a solution to my Windows Vista installation problem yet, but I appreciate their quick response.
These are good guys, and they're working on a labor of love, a project they really believe in. I'm sure they'll come up with a solution.
-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 04:16 PM

The online Leach collection is indeed full of errors, as 'GEST' remarks. A particularly bizarre example:

Their commentary on '78-054 NFLD: Handsome Harry' originally identified it as a version of Roud 568 / Laws P34 ('Sailor and the Ghost'). It obviously wasn't, and a few minutes' work revealed it to be a completely unrelated popular American stage song of the early 20th century, originally published by George W Meyer Music Co. in 1913, as 'Always Take A Girl Named "Daisy" ('Cause Daisies Won't Tell)': music by George W Meyer, words by Alfred Bryan and Sam M Lewis.

The ludicrous mis-ascription presumably arose because somebody assumed without checking that, because their text shared a title with an example of Roud 568, it must be the same song. A beginner's mistake, so I expect that 'GEST' is right about farming the work out to students.

About a year ago I emailed them with the correct information. They never replied, but the entry was eventually corrected; so evidently they do pay attention when things are pointed out to them, even if it isn't immediately obvious.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 09:23 PM

So, Don Walsh responded, and gave me a link to repair information. It looks complicated, but it isn't. All you have to do is this:
  • install the Newfoundland Outports program using the installation program on the CD-R - but don't run the "Outports" program yet.
  • Create a folder titled pdoxusrs on your C:\ drive
  • Open your control panel (classic view) and open BDE Administrator
  • In the window that appears, click on the configuration tab, and expand the "plus" signs to go to Drivers/Native/Paradox
  • In the right window that appears where it says NET DIR C:\ click on C:\ and change to C:\pdoxusrs.
  • Close the BDE Administrator by clicking on the X at the top right corner of the BDE Administrator Dialog Box. You will be prompted to save the changes. Click on Yes.
  • You will be requested to restart all BDE applications for the changes to take effect. Click on OK.
  • Re-open the BDE Administrator to ensure that NET DIR has been changed to C:\pdoxusrs. Once that has been confirmed re-start the Newfoundland Outports program.
Full, illustrated instructions here (click)

The "Help" function still won't work unless you download Windows Help from Microsoft, but that's not a big deal. I still can't access Help from within the "Outports" program, but it works when I click on the Help file.
Works like a charm. Thanks, Jim and Don.
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 02 Jun 07 - 11:56 PM

Actually it turns out that I was quite wrong about the MacEdward Leach website. They changed URL a while back, and my bookmark was out of date; so I ran a search for 'Handsome Harry' in order to save time. This, as it turned out, was a mistake. I wound up not at the page on their site, but at the equivalent page on GEST's site. He, of course, had also noticed their error and corrected it. Not knowing that anybody had mirrored the file, I assumed that I was where I thought I would be, and looked no further.

The 'official' site still contains the ludicrous mistake described (and, no doubt, many others). Sadly, their message stating 'If you have further information about any of the songs or singers on this website, we would love to hear from you' appears to be no more than empty words. Clearly they will ignore any such communication. The site is of value, then, only as a source of raw material; its commentaries cannot be trusted.

Admittedly, the DT contains even more such egregious errors and is even more slow to correct them; but it is run by a very small number of amateurs, using an (effectively) obsolete database format that can't be modified piecemeal. The Leach site, on the other hand, belongs to a (presumably) reputable university and is (presumably) maintained by professionals; they have no such excuse, and ought thoroughly to be ashamed of the shoddy 'scholarship' they are promoting.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 Oct 09 - 02:30 AM

Thanks to the instructions above, I was able to install this program in Windows XP, in Windows Vista, and now in Windows 7 - and I can run the program from my hard drive.

Please note that there is a new Web address for this program:
http://www.singsonginc.ca/liners/cdoutport.html. I'll change the incorrect addresses above when I find them.

This is an excellent program. Recently, I broke down and bought the three-volume printed set. As stated above, the binding is poor and the books fall apart easily. With the computerized version, you can both read and listen to the songs. To my mind, it's the ultimate songbook.

-Joe-
The page of instructions for Windows Vista has shut down, but it's available at archive.org. Now, I want to see if I can get the instructions to work on Windows 8.1 Update....
-Joe Offer, April 2014-


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: GUEST,Return of Mary Vickery
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 05:07 PM

This song was written about my Aunt he name was Mary Francis Vickery, I have lyrics, but really would love to hear the song.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: EBarnacle
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 05:41 PM

Joe, shouldn't you have been able to set the various versions of Windows to emulate earlier versions in order to make them compatible with the disk?


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Dec 10 - 07:10 PM

This is a song about my Aunt Mary Vickery.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 03:44 AM

I don't recall what I did to get "Newfoundland Outports" to run in Windows 7, EBarnacle. I don't remember having any problem. The problem was with Windows Vista, but maybe I just used the same solution when I moved to Windows 7.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: meself
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 10:51 AM

OKay, I'll bite: WHAT is a song about your Aunt Mary Vickery? Did you try to add a link or a file or something?


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Bob the Postman
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 11:57 AM

Our guest alludes to this song, which I have copied, along with associated info, from GEST's website.   I googled for a re-issue of the Dalhart recording but could find nothing.

Please tell us more about yourself and any family lore you may have about this matter, Guest.

Mary Vickery And Connelly Donnelly (Coll. by Ken Peacock)

There lived a girl named Mary Vickery down in old Kentucky,
Oh, her life was so unhappy that away from home she fled;
She went away and never told her father she was going,
And when he found that she was gone he thought that she was dead.

When several months had passed away they found a woman's body,
Near Mary's home they found it in the bottom of a mine;
They thought it was the body of the long lost Mary Vickery,
They arrested Connelly Donnelly for that awful crime.

Oh, the witness swore against him was a woman that was jealous,
Because he did not love her, was devoted to his wife;
She swore upon the Bible she saw Connelly do the killing,
He was taken then to Frankfort jail and sentenced for his life.

"I swear that I am innocent," protested Connelly Donnelly,
But just the same they sentenced him behind the prison bars;
For a year or more he never saw his darling wife or family,
For a year or more he never looked upon the sun or stars.

But God had not forsaken him for down in San Anita,
A little Mary Vickery had been living all the time;
Oh, when she heard that Connelly was in jail her conscience hurt her,
She returned to prove that he was not guilty of the crime.

Then the governor of the state oh, he pardoned Connelly Donnelly,
And sent him to his wife who all alone had been his friend;
He left the prison bars behind. "Now," says Connelly Donnelly,
"It goes to show that right shall always triumph in the end."

####.... Variant of Return Of Mary Vickery recorded in 1927 by Marion Try Slaughter aka Vernon Dalhart (1883-1948) of Jefferson, TX (Brunswick Records E22227) ....####
Collected in 1952 from Gordon Willis [1911-2001] of St. John's, NL, by Kenneth Peacock and published in Songs Of The Newfoundland Outports, Volume 3, pp.819-820, by the National Museum of Canada (1965) Crown Copyrights Reserved.

Kenneth Peacock noted that although Mr. Willis assured him he did not learn this American ballad from a recording, the tune sounded suspiciously contrived and commercial. At any rate, students of native American ballads will be interested to see it in a Newfoundland collection. Peacock also noted that he had not come across it in any of the American collections, and that his own feelings about the ballad were that the jury should have known at the beginning that anyone with the name Connelly Donnelly could not possibly have committed such a heinous crime.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: meself
Date: 23 Dec 10 - 12:31 PM

Thanks. Btw, I suppose it's possible that Mr Willis learned the ballad from someone who had learned it from a recording. It seems to me that I recall someone coming across Hank Williams' songs in oral tradition in outport Nfld, back in the '50s or '60s.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Joe Offer
Date: 19 Apr 14 - 04:50 PM

I haven't been using my Songs of the Newfoundland Outports program lately. I recently installed Windows 8.1 Update, and decided to see if I could get the Outports program to run.

No cigar. In fact, the program opened and then wouldn't allow me to close it.

I went to the instructions for installing on Windows Vista - they're not at their original location, but you can still view them at archive.org. BUT I couldn't get very far.

The instructions say to create a new folder on the C Drive which we will name "pdoxusrs." OK, did that.

Then it wants me to go to an icon on Control Panel called BDE Administrator, but it ain't there. BDE administrator is supposed to control C:\\Program Files\Common Files\Borland Shared\something-something.cfg

Well, there are Microsoft and Symantec shared files, but no Borland files.

I take it that the "Outports" program was built on Borland Paradox. Paradox is now owned by Corel.

Anybody know how I can make this thing work? It was really nice when it worked. I guess you can't expect computer programs to work forever.

-Joe-



I note that GEST now has lyrics for all of the Songs of the Newfoundland Outports, which is very nice. The CD-ROM has MIDI files and actual recordings of the songs, which is very nice.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 19 Apr 14 - 07:10 PM

Joe, songs in French from "....Outports" (except Alouette) are not included in GEST. This was a conscious decision on his part.


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: GUEST,jim bainbridge
Date: 20 Apr 14 - 08:31 AM

Anyone with any interest in the songs of Newfoundland should be aware of the recent book/CD combination of the songs of Jerome Downey of The Codroy Valley.
IT consists of 26 recordings of this Newfoundland Irish singer who passed away in February 2014. The recordings were done by Margaret Bennett and Kenneth s Goldstein in 1980, and the book (with complete lyrics) written by Margaret Bennett.
I have reviewed it as 'Jerome- Just One More Song' on www.mustrad.org.uk and the sale point is on the review


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Subject: RE: Songs of the Newfoundland Outports
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Apr 14 - 11:37 PM

Refresh - can anybody help me get this working?


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