Help: Help (speakers)

Subject: Help (speakers)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 30 Jun 01 - 10:35 PM

Can anybody reccomend some speakers to me please?
My budget is around 100 uk pounds,they will be used with a Rotel 921 Amplifier,(90 pounds).I went to a Hi Fi shop and the man there was talking about "ohms" and "impedance" and other things I did not understand, so I thought I would ask you, I will be very grateful for any advice you give me.thanks.john

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 30 Jun 01 - 10:50 PM

I've no idea what is good John but I just did a google search for Rotel 921 and came up with a page that gave the following spec for a Rotel RA-921 amp: Output 25 Watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms. Maybe this will give you something to talk to your hi-fi shop man.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: GUEST,Rana
Date: 30 Jun 01 - 10:57 PM

Don't know the prices anymore but I've always liked British speakers. I have a pair of KEF's - 22 years old now but I'm not going to replace them. My second pair of speakers are Mission's which sound good and struck me as good value. Remember Celestion's as being a good make.

Anyway, non of this may be any help to you but just go out with music you know and listen. Good luck!

Rana

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: Gary T
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 01:53 AM

Sorry I don't know any particular speakers to recommend, but here's some general info that might help.

Ohms are the units we use to measure electrical resistance, and it's a basic specification of speakers. In my limited experience (in the U.S.), 8 ohms has been by far the most common rating. I have seen 4 ohm speakers, and I had an old (1960 vintage) amp that had terminals for 4, 8, and 16 ohms, but 99% of the speakers I've seen are 8 ohms. Assuming no error in the specs Jon found for you, you want 8 ohm speakers (others will work but not as well).

I've had impedance defined to me, but I never quite grasped it and don't remember the definition. It seems to me that a layman shouldn't have to know what impedance speakers he needs--the salesman should be able to advise.

The other spec Jon supplied is wattage, which is the unit of electrical power. "RMS" mean "root mean square," which essentially means average, as opposed to peak or maximum wattage. Since it's a per channel rating, each speaker needs to be able to handle 25 watts of consistent power. A good hi-fi salesman should be able to direct you to suitable choices.

Less honorable companies sometimes advertise peak wattage or total RMS wattage (in this example 2x25=50), either of which tend to mislead buyers into thinking they're getting a more powerful amp than they really are.

My understanding is that it's OK, perhaps desirable, to have speakers that can handle somewhat more power than the amp's rating. Getting speakers that are significantly mismatched to the amp can be a problem. If they can't handle it (say speakers rated at 15 watts) they will distort at any but the lowest volume levels. If they're rated for much higher wattage, the amp can't really drive them properly. Again, a good hi-fi salesman should be able to help here.

The old standard advice is to get speakers of a higher quality level than the rest of the system, for two reasons: to essentially eliminate any chance of distortion; and to be in a position to upgrade other system components without having to replace the speakers also. Quality level is not the same as wattage rating, though the two tend to go hand in hand to some degree.

To sum up: Get 8 ohm speakers. Make sure they can EASILY handle 25 watts RMS each. If your budget's not really bursting, don't scrimp.

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 03:57 AM

Thanks everybody-I think 100 pounds is about 50 dollars, I feel much more knowledgeable now, I think the man in the shop was been too technical for me.thanks again.john

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: bill\sables
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 05:04 AM

John £100 = $1.42 at todays exchange rate.
Bill

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: bill\sables
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 05:05 AM

Sorry that should have read £100 =$142. I know the exchange rate is bad but not that bad.
Bill

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 06:44 AM

Jon, Glad you got fixed up, I was just going to get in touch with Paisley, plenty of volume.Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 07:00 AM

have you looked here John
HiFi
I haven't looked to see if there is one near you

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 07:03 AM

yes there is 55 Ferens Way Hull, is that where you have been aready?

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: GUEST,Mac Tattie
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 07:17 AM

john in hull? If you are in Hull then get yourself allong to "Richer Sounds" 55,Ferensway, Hull. NO I DON'T WORK FOR THEM, but I have bought stuff from Richer Sounds' Glasgow shop. "Mission" make realy top class speakers and Richer Sounds allways have good deals. Give them a lot of playing to run them in before being too judgemental and get some reasonable speaker cable while your at it. After years of disbelief regarding the "benefits" of special cable I spent £20 on some and then spent several long weekends and evenings re-discovering my CD's' tapes and records.

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: Gary T
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 03:07 PM

One detail--when the speakers are hooked up, they must be "in phase," or you will lose a lot of the bass sound. This is accomplished by making sure the "positive" (usually red) amp terminal is connected to the positive speaker terminal, and the "negative" (or ground or earth, usually black) amp terminal is connected to the negative speaker terminal. It probably doesn't make much difference if they're switched around on BOTH speakers, but it makes a WORLD of difference if ONE speaker is hooked up positive-to-positive and the OTHER is hooked up positive-to-negative. Good speaker cable will have the wires identifiable by color or markings so that you can accurately know which of its two wires is going where.

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 04:17 PM

Good Point Gary, the speaker cable I had was marked all the way along one of the pair of strands to identify it - with a thin coloured line. When I upgraded the cable (the cheap cable was translucent pink) the new set had a raised ridge on one of the strands.
Don't be tempted to salvage some very thin speaker wire off a cheap old midi system as my friend wanted to - his excuse was that he could 'hide' the thin cable easily.
When I bought my Speakers I was surprised that in the instructions I was told not to wire them into the mains ???

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 04:25 PM

I'll second that reference to Richer Sounds. I don't owrk for them either. On this budget what you are looking for is a bargain - Try to listen to some "Castle" speaker whcih I think Richer have on offer.

Rely on your ears. If you like the sound, that's what counts.

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 07:20 PM

Thanks again everybody, especially Roger & Gary.Richer sound have recently opened a branch in Hull, I will have a look there tomorow, and let you all know what I buy.

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: mooman
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 07:40 PM

I've been using Celestion 3 speakers for a good many years and have been very pleased with them for the price. Not sure what models Celestion are producing now but there should be something in you price range. The ones I have would easily handle the power output of your amplifier.

mooman

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: bill\sables
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 03:38 PM

Hi John, My next door neighbor is getting rid of a pair of 100watt sterio speakers, Do you want them? They are only half an hour away from you near Goole PM me if you want them.
Bill

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 04:05 PM

Thanks everybody-I got my new speakers today (100 pound from richer sound), this is still good because they should be about 150, they sound good but not as good as they did in the shop, is it true they sound better after a bit of use? As you can pobably tell I dont know much about this kind of thing.john

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 04:08 PM

Sorry! I didnt say what they are, they are called mission m71.

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: harpmaker
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 06:03 PM

I have a TOA 30w rms mono amp 4ohm output, the speaker is 35w rms @ 4ohm. but it distorts. Does anybody know if it is ok to add another identical speaker wired in paralell in the same speaker cab, or will it interfere with the ohmage and damage the amp?? The object is to get more volume without the distortion. Thanks to anybody who can help. John

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 06:26 PM

John, I am no expert, but I reckom it is distorting because your speaker is not powerful enough, try one with a higher wattage, i reckon adding another speaker would make it even worse as your amp would be working harder.

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: harpmaker
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 06:39 PM

Hi John, (ar'nt you at work?) In effect Iam doubling up on the speaker wattage, Its the ohms that bothers me

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: GUEST,Claymore
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 07:07 PM

Harpmaker, the short answer is no. By wiring two 4 omh in parallel to a mono 4 omh amp you would show 2 omhs to the amp and might burn it out. You could buy two 8 omh speakers, which would show 4 to the amp and be within limits. Two speakers would not give you more total volume, but because the speakers would spread the volume more evenly, the sound would appear louder throughout the room.

But better yet, get a new amp (4 omh mono? What country are you writing from, Russia?)

As for John from Hull, I am not at all familiar with British makes (other than Celestion, and some Allen & Heath stuff) but if the speakers are not too big, try some form of the following. If you want more bass, put them in a corner for a third regeneration of the bass (both side walls and the floor) or suspend them in the corner of the ceiling (same thing, two side walls and the ceiling). If you want less bass, put them on a padded floor in the middle of the wall. If you want clearer treble set them up on a stand at something approaching seated ear height (tweeters about 4 feet off the ground). If you want something of both, put them on the aforementioned stands in the corners of the room. You then get 2nd regeneration with direct treble. Good luck!

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: harpmaker
Date: 14 Aug 02 - 07:39 PM

Thanks Claymore, you just saved my amp!!! And, no not from Russia, I use the amp as a small PA that runs on 12v outdoors!

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: GUEST,Bill the Collie
Date: 24 Feb 05 - 10:53 AM

William Hague gets about a million pounds for being just one speaker.

Subject: RE: Help: Help (speakers)
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Feb 05 - 10:47 AM

LOL
Willie Hague
LOL