Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: Aidan Crossey
Date: 04 Jul 01 - 07:32 AM

Nice point, cetmst.

I was about to add something similar myself about the lines of Irish men waiting in Cricklewood or outside Camden Town tube station in London to get a day's unregulated labour on building sites. Men who've lived this day-to-day working life for years. While the wages might not be quite as scandalous as those Ard Mhacha was quoting as having been the going rate in the hiring fair days, I fear that these poor sods are milked while still big and strong and then left to fend for themselves when their strength and vigour goes.

So if the hiring fairs don't survive in name anymore, there are examples not too far from the end of our noses where their modern-day variants thrive.

Those of us who draw a regular wage, have a roof over our heads and are able to think about saving for a rainy day - or for a comfortable retirement, etc. - ought to be thankful!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: cetmst
Date: 04 Jul 01 - 07:24 AM

Walk down the streets of many American cities in the early morning and see lines of men at the "employment office" waiting for day labor jobs, mostly consruction, some farming. There are many songs about migrant workers in the US west including Woody Guthrie's "Deportees" and "Pastures of Plenty" and a horror song whose title I can't recall about migrant workers who died when their bus broke down in the desert heat. There are variants of "Buffalo Skinners", men hired to hunt buffalo and then abandoned without wages when the hunt was over. Many collections of logging songs tell of unfair hiring and inadequate wages. Appalachian coal mining songs depict near slavery conditions, see Merle Travis' "Dark As a Dungeon" and "Sixteen Tons". "The Black Fly" by Wade Hemsworth is a delightful song about dam construction in Canada. There are songs about pressmen throughout England and Scotland such as "Weary Cutters". THe modern practice of immigrant ships that promise relocation and jobs is a vicious variant of the hiring fair. The list is depressingly long.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 04 Jul 01 - 05:01 AM

Derrymacash, Thanks for Darby O`leary, I see by the lyrics another oul hand that had a Butlins holiday with the tax dodgers [farmers] Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: Aidan Crossey
Date: 04 Jul 01 - 04:44 AM

Ard mhacha ...

The missus tells me a parcel's arrived wi' a Lurgan postmark on it. Good man. I'll have a look this evening.

Now ... back on thread ... what about Darby O'Leary. Although the phrase hiring fair is never mentioned explicitly, I think it's pretty clear that he's not there entirely of his own volition.

The lyrics are here

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: IanC
Date: 04 Jul 01 - 04:09 AM

Ard

No, what I'm saying is that things aren't all universally the same. My father in law was a tenant farmer on 100 acres of Yorkshire hill farm, with one farm man in the cottage next door. Two years in three he did marginally better than the farm man, the other year far worse.

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: nutty
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 05:23 PM

If it's white slavery you are interested in then "wife selling " should be included.
These are selection of broadsides from the Bodleian Library on the subject - they are image files so may take a while to load

THE WEDDING

POOR WILL PUTTY

THE CARPENTER'S WIFE>

SALE OF A WIFE

JOHN HOBBS

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 02:25 PM

Hello John Nolan, The song you mentioned "Tattie Jock" sounds good, any ideas on locating it. and thanks for the other info. Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 02:07 PM

Hello Wolfgang, Thanks for your help, I have that one, I live about nine miles from Hamiltonsbawn. Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 01:19 PM

Hello Ian, And I also worked for the miserable gits, so what are you trying to say that your jolly Old farmer gave you a fair crack of the whip, sure did across the back. Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: IanC
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 11:59 AM

Ard

I'm the son and grandson of East Anglian farm labourers. My grandfather was evicted more than once and was once burned out of his tied cottage. I know what I'm talking about, I don't need to read no books about it.

Ian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 11:40 AM

Hello Ian, Take it from me, any old timers I spoke to here in the north of Ireland gave me a different story from yours. You aren`t a VFarmer by any chance. The stories I have read about hired hands even from England gives a picture of a life of misery with the Farmers. Get your hands on a book about a hired hand on a farm in Yorkshire entitled "Brother to the Ox". there are irish books aplenty about this. Slan Ared Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 08:11 AM

Hamiltonsbawn hiring fair (from the DT)

Attention: Do not use the phrase 'hiring fair' in the DT search it will find nothing. For reasons unknown the word 'fair' is not allowed. In the Digitrad and Forum search this phrase works fine.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: sian, west wales
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 07:57 AM

Slightly off topic but ...

Plowing with oxen survived in Wales after disappearing (pretty much) in England. Because the Welsh believed that the ox was an intelligent, more than slightly mystical, animal, they believed that it only worked when happy, and kept amused. So to plough you needed both a ploughman and a lad. The lad's sole duty was to walk backwards in front of the oxen the whole time of ploughing and sing to it clever verses - of riddles, or love, quite often. Not silly verses, as this was an insult to the animals' intelligence.

So ... quite often at hiring fairs, farmers would audition likely lads as it was important for them to have both a good voice AND a large repetoire of songs (to avoid repetition).

Always thought that was kinda interesting ...

sian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: IanC
Date: 03 Jul 01 - 04:31 AM

Ard

Take it from me, what you're saying about hiring fairs and wages is not universally accurate. I have spoken at some length to both hirers-on and farmers in various parts of England and many of them (on both sides) regarded it as a fair system. In some cases, where there was a surplus or shortage of labour, it probably wasn't so easy but I think you're promulgating a biased story.

What I said about East Anglian labourers is a case in point. They went from somewhere where hiring fairs had mostly been long dead to hire on at fairs because the conditions for them were better.

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 01:21 PM

Hello Bald Eagle, Hiring Fairs had their day at the beginning of World WAR 2. Factories needed all available labour for the war effort. Farmers had to pay a living wage and it was goodbye to slave labour. Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: IanC
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 11:46 AM

There have been real hiring fairs well within living memory.

Just before WW2, a friend of mine - now 85 - hired himself out at a hiring fair at Carlisle Market Cross. The usual contract was "a year and a day" including (both ends) the day of the fair. Full board was provided during the year and payment at the end of the contract. The employee then went back to the fair, got drunk and hired-on again.

Around the turn of the century, quite a few agricultural labourers from East Anglia were hiring on in Yorkshire as things were bad at home, and the pay was better there. That reminds me of one of the hiring fair songs "Yaddie Hughes".

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: MMario
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 11:24 AM

in the strict technical sense of the word, yes.

Leastwise about 25-30 years ago it was common for a number of corporations to show up at a college or university and pick and choose from among the applicants - and it was not uncommon for them to play one applicant off against another so the company would get the most for their money - these contracts were frequently for a number of years with no compete clauses...

tho' in comparision to what went on in previous centuries, probably "no."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: Ringer
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 11:14 AM

Have there been hiring-fairs within living memory?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 07:52 AM

Hello All, Thank to all of you. Gary T , If paying some poor boy or girl, £6.00 for six months hard slogging isn`t a form of white slavery, then do as I have done, and talk to the poor unfortunates who had the bad luck to be carted off from home and finished up with a greedy, cruel old Farmer. Read Brother to the Ox, Paddy the COOP. Children of the Dead End [Patrick McGill] and you will be enlightened. Slan and thanks to all. Ar Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: Ringer
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 05:56 AM

I think you can hire a fair song for about twopence a day.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From:
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 02:31 AM

My current hiring fair favourite is Copshawholm Fair

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: Gary T
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 01:48 AM

The one I know is "Hiring Fair." I couldn't find it in the DT or with a google search. The chorus starts out "And you're welcome with me Johnny..."

I can understand thinking of some hiring fair stories as "white slavery," but that's not what the term means. It has a quite specific definition--the practice of forcing women into prostitution, or the woman's state therein.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: mg
Date: 02 Jul 01 - 12:28 AM

I just wrote the words but no tune yet about the Hawaian kanakas who were "indentured" by their king to the Hudson's Bay Company here in Vancouver, WA. And I think Darling Nelly Gray is about a slave who has been sold. mg

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: John Nolan
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 10:35 PM

Kevin Mitchell's version of "The Magherafelt May Fair" tells of a single Irish girl hoping to attract a husband at a hiring fair. Pragmatic and wistful both. The bothy ballad "Sleepytoon" supplies a useful insight into rotten working conditions and the dogged spirits of the farm workers. The transportation song "Tattie Jock" gives a glimpse into the grim legal treatment that hired farmworkers could expect in the 1800s.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 10:31 PM

Nothing from me on this one, but an Uncle of mine was very in very poor health and also very kind hearted to us kids. He'd often hire someone to play with us in his absense. One of the locals was into making and flying kites so one Spring my uncle saw him at the bar on a Saturday night and employed him to go out on Sunday and fly kites with us. I have a picture someone took of Uncle Guido that night, down at the local tavern........He was hirin' a kite.

Sorry........Continue with your discussion...........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: alison
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 10:20 PM

Ralph McTell's "girl from the hiring fair" is not a pop song...... he wrote it for Fairport Convention... although I prefer Ralph's version.......

it is about a couple who were bought at the hiring fair and fall in love.......

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: mooman
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 07:02 PM

And then there's Bogey's Bonnie Belle (which I always mix up and announce as Belle's Bonny Bogey if I'm singing it!).

mooman

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: toadfrog
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 05:45 PM

Nutty, I just put in "hiring fair" as you said, and got a whole bunch of threads all of which are about a song called "The Girl from the Hiring Fair," which seems to be a pop or rock song. I think this guy was looking for other songs about hiring fairs, besides that one.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: toadfrog
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 05:34 PM

Well, if I comprehend rightly what a "hiring fair song" is, the dt has Barnyards of Delgaty(Scotland); Cockies of Bungaree (Austrialia); while the forum has Nicky tams, which is either a hiring fair song or something like it. And "Bogie's Bonnie Belle" is also a lot like a hiring fair song and is somewhere the dt, but reception is v. sluggish today, and life is too short to preform searches and provide more clickies from here. Norman Kennedy sings one called "Drumdelegie," which I'll bet can either be found on the dt or elsewhere on the net. Is this what you have in mind by "hiring fair songs," or does the whole song have to be about events at the fair? Jamie Taylor sings one called "The Haill Week O' the Fair," which I think is available via the Bothy Band, and also from the University of Edinburgh I can't find it on the dt.

American hiring of farm labor in the 19th Century was v. similar to practices in Britain. See Horwitz, The Transformation of American Law, 1780-1860, pp. 186-187. But so far as I know, no laborer's songs; the closest equivalent would have to be cowboy songs.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: nutty
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 05:07 PM

If you put "hiring fair" in the DT/Forum search box you will get a variety of songs and threads that have been discussed previously.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: GUEST,DWAcorn
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 04:45 PM

Ralph McTell is famous for his beautiful song " The Girl from the Hiring Fair".

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 04:15 PM

Fergie, Thanks a chara, "Come all ye loyal heroes", I have that one. How about the overseas brigade, english, Geordies byre muckers, Aussies, US guys, know anybody was hired out to our beloved miserable assed farmers, Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Hiring fair songs
From: Fergie
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 03:05 PM

an spailpín fanach. The Rocks of Bán.

Subject: Hiring fair songs
From: ard mhacha
Date: 01 Jul 01 - 01:55 PM

Hello All, Is there any good oul swede bashers, culchies,or country hacks could enlighten me on a topic I find fascinating. It was white slavery, so there should be plenty of songs. Slan Ard Mhacha.