Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: LR Mole
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 08:28 AM

Of all the traps, distractions, and delaying maneuvers life in general (and music in particular) can hang you up in, "if only" is one of the slyest. "When I learn this song, buy/find this ax", etc., is difficult stuff. Almost as silly as,"If I think hard enough, I can solve this." I don't know a way out, though. Might as well play, while we're waiting.

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:41 AM

Rick, I hesitate to offer suggestions to someone of your stature in music, but,I have to wonder if you have had the pleasure of playing a Santa Cruz Koca bola?

I went to a party last weekend, and, a picker said he had played several new Taylors, and none of them sounded as good as my old one. You are right, I do have a special relationship with this ax, it brings out the best in me. Now, if I could find a woman who could do that! Oh, no, I'm starting to sound like Matt! LOL

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: English Jon
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:34 AM

I've got a Mengascini melodeon that sounds great to audiences, good for recording etc, but sounds a bit of a dog when you're actually playing it. something to do with sound radiation patterns, I suppose.

EJ

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:12 AM

Mr. Miexner, you make a good point too. I never really broke in the Reiter but then again how do you break something in that you don't get joy out of playing? I would much rather pick up my no-name Cortez to play over the Reiter.

Bonnie

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 02:54 AM

Sorry for your concern dear Bonnie, but this had turned into a good "nerd" thread (and I didn't even have to start it!). Seems there are been quite a few of us on Mudcat who have that "special" relationship with our instruments.

I'd like to centre out Kendall (who gets centred out at least once a week) 'cause I've noticed just HOW much his Taylor means to him. I don't remember if I've joined in when we've been kidding him about his pronouncements on various guitar makes (all of which are totally wrong by the way!!!) but he's got a very special relationship with that Taylor and it shows. I haven't had that kind of feeling about my last two instruments....and I WANT it again! So consequently I continue to look. In pawnshops, music stores, and anywhere guitars show up. It's kind of like searching for a NEW Holy Grail........always with the thought that you HAD the real thing at one time......and like a fool, sold it. It's simply a little game (I mean, try thinking how you'd explain ninety percent of this thread to your grandparents), but boy can the game get interesting at times!

Anyone got an Epiphone Texan lyin' around the house that they're not using?

Rick

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: DonMeixner
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 11:35 PM

Hi Bonnie,

If you go back a ways to your threads when you were looking for a new, different banjo, several of us, including me said "play everything you can, Gibsons and bacons and Orpheums and Vegas are great instruments. the banjo for you maybe a low priced no name nothin' special that fits you like a second skin.' Or words to that effect. I also think I told you about my brother's Bart Reiter banjo and he loved it. Maybe the Reiter is the perfect banjo for you, its just too new for you to know it yet. Maybe it need some age on it. My guild is 41 years old and looks like it was road hard and put up wet but it sure is made for me. I have never, never, never, played a new instrument that I liked as well as this old Guild. New instruments are transitional instruments, they are just something you play until they become old instruments. Maybe you need to grow together for awhile.

That being said I've played some really awful old instruments too.

Don

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: TishA
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:55 PM

Wish I could afford to have a banjo to gather dust with! (See "poverty" thread.) I do have a Reiter internal resonator Bacon style that I love. It was not love at first sight, though. I've had it for a year or so and have gotten to know it. I don't feel right playing any other now.

I agree that if it doesn't feel "right", yyou should forget it. You can't force it.

Chip A.

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:38 PM

Watch it spaw, next thing we'll have Rick back on his "Yamaha and the blind test"... (which is something I agree with).

Jon

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:27 PM

Mick reminds me that although the Guild is "benchmark" instrument and all, when I said above that things may not come with a name or when you expect them..................

I have had several fine and big name guitars including Martin, Guild, Gibson, etc. and although Rick has had more stolen than I, I think percentage wise, we're about equal in the theft department. After one of those thefts, I was left with nothing so I went out and bought "something" to play. A local store where I was living at the time had a Takemine of the "Martin sues Takemine" period. It looked, sounded, and played pretty well, much like a good D-18 Martin and the store was going out of business and sold it to me for about a hundred bucks. No case, so I threw it in a gig bag that hadn't been stolen and figured it would "do" until something great came along. Over 20 years later, I have treated her poorly, never bought a case for her (although I did get a new gig bag), and while I worked my way though a succession of Martins and others, the Tak was always what I went back to and what I still have. It's a wonderful instrument and she's always ready for a tune and still seems to love me after such poor treatment. I can't imagine not having this wonderful guitar.

You never know..........Don't press it.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:03 PM

Walking Eagle, as a banjo player I can tell you that you're right: "perfect banjo" is like the expression "tuning a banjo". A contradiction in terms.

DAve Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Big Mick
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 07:30 PM

My good friend Rick has given you sage advice, Dear Friend Bonnie. The Reiter has already given you a treasure in the form of a lesson learned. For that you are in its debt. And because you had the wisdom to choose a quality instrument, it won't cost you anything near its worth.

For me, it came in the form of a mid 60's vintage Guild 12 string. The second I touched its strings, I knew it was over. And she reminds me every single day that I am not good enough for her, but if I keep trying she will respond..............hahahaha. And I feel kind of the same way about my old (relatively speaking) Seagull. Everytime I think about another six string, I find myself asking why? Seagull has a warmth and familiarity that I love. I am sure that I will find other instruments that speak to me. And I will know it when it happens. The same will happen to you, my friend.

Mick

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 06:52 PM

Bonnie, there are guidelines and workmanship does come into it but the finest crafted banjo in the world (assuming that could be judged) could still not be the one for you; someone else could pick up your Bart Reiter and find it is THEIR instrument, etc. it is so personal and that is, I think how it works.

I am with Rick when he said YOUR SPECIAL instrument will come - it will and you'll know it when you find it.

Jon

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 06:42 PM

Mark, I tried to change my banjo to my likings. Switched to a thicker bridge, higher bridge, even had a bridge custom-made. Changed to a no-knot tail piece, changed the string gauge. I even raised the 5th string nut so that I could achieve higher action on the 5th string for my thumb. Did all that but to no avail.
Just like men.......best not to go around fixing them in hopes to make the relationship better.

Like Rick says, its not worth agonizing over.
But I sure learned not to judge a banjo by its workmanship. Those Bart Reiters are a might fine looking hunk of wood & nickel.

Miss Bonnie

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: kendall
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 04:18 PM

I had a Gibson J-45 for over 40 years and never did bond with it either. It lived under the bed for years after I bought a Martin hd 28. That was a "kick ass" guitar, but, same problem. Then, I happened on the Taylor, and, it was interest at first sight. I bought it, and out went the Martin and the Gibson. Now, I cant imagine owning another guitar in place of the Taylor. In other words, it took 40 years for me to find the love of my life (guitar wise) so, hang in there Bonnie, and, look around.

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: GUEST,Walking Eagle
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 03:47 PM

Isn't 'perfect banjo' an oxymoron? (;->)

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: M.Ted
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 01:02 PM

I know what you are talking about, Bonnie, even though I am not a banjo picker--I have had the same problem with guitars--several years ago, I got paid a large amount of money that I had been owed for a long time, and I went out and bought the best archtop guitar I could find--it cost more money than I had ever spent on an instrument, but I figured I owed it to myself--

To make a long story short, I played it when I got it, once a week later, and it sat for about four years--One night we were having a party, and some idiot that I didn't even know pulled it out of the closet and spilled beer on it and in the case--no permanent damage, but I realized that I had a lot of money tied up in something that I never used--

It is gone now, and I have another good guitar, but still mostly play one I bought at a yardsale--

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Mark Clark
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 12:59 PM

Sorry to hear that, Bonnie. I remember all the excitement and anticipation with which you acquired it. Is this one the one you bought?

You might have someone fool around with the setup. Try different heads, bridges, tailpieces, strings, etc. Those things have a lot to do with the way it feels as well as the way it sounds. If you like everything about it but, as you say, simply haven't bonded, then you really have no choice but to replace it.

Have you tried other people's banjos while at Dwight Diller's seminars? If not, ask a few folks next time you're there. You may learn to identify the characeristics that make a banjo feel just right and be able to use the knowledge next time you go looking.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: IanC
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 12:46 PM

Not sure I believe in love at first sight where instruments are concerned. My experience has been that you get to know an instrument and to trust it. The relationship is one that grows. One D/G Hohner melodeon's much the same as another, though and my lovely Portuguese Mandolin has long been broken and nothing will ever be the same ...

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Les from Hull
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 12:41 PM

I suppose I'm lucky. My current instruments, melodeon (Serenelini Cloud D/G) and bouzouki (Paul Hathway double-strung) I didn't spend much time deciding about. In neither case have I ever been disappointed at any time. Went in, bought 'em, loved 'em ever since. Or perhaps I'm just easily pleased.

Les

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 12:22 PM

Happens with everything and sometimes never happens too. funny thing how so many of us impart life to inanimate objects, but it's true that some of those "things" do have a life of their own and they too pick and choose. Anything where you find yourself passionately involved is likely to evoke those same emotions and though you may find several "pals" as you go along and you may develop "relationships," that "perfect match" may come along today, tomorrow, of never. More importantly, it may not be the "name" that you were expecting and even it may not be absolutely perfect.

I can't emphasize enough that an instrument is not the only thing that hits us this way and anything we are passionately involved with can cause it. Also, to be "great" doesn't mean you must have that realtionship with the object and indeed some never do.......it's all a mindset thing at times.

A lot of racers feel something toward a particular car as opposed to another of any car they've ever driven, yet one of the best ever, Bill Vukovich who won twice at Indy, upon seeing the car that he would drive to those two victories, commented, "I can drive that pig." So much for "relationships".....................

Spaw

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 12:22 PM

Dear Bonnie. I remember telling you that once you embraced music in a truly emotional way, many doors will be yours for the opening. Well one of the doors, that VERY few choose to open (you appear to have) leads to the most bizzare (to civilians) co-dependancy between musician and instrument. As you well know I am a classic case of this rather humorous syndrome. Our instruments take on lives of their own, and consequently we relate to them as we do friends, lovers, casual acquaintances and yes, even enemies.

We agonize over things like "perfect action, string guaging, weight, feel, even placement of fifth string peg! (remember my old five stringer?) When we play badly, we can easily put the blame on that particular instrument. When we play well, we attribute it to that instrument...or , if we've already decided on "divorce" we figure we "beat the instrument's drawbacks".

It's totally silly to anyone who feels we should just "shut up and play", but if it "feels" real, it is.

A year and a half ago I bought a nice old D-35-HB. Powerful instrument, looked good, no problems.....except that I never got comfortable with it. I actually had guilt feelings about selling it!

For twenty years I played a gorgeous 1929 Deluxe Vega Tubaphone. One day someone offered me a huge amount of money for it. I succumbed. Pure greed, nuthin' else. I LOVED that banjo, and have never found another one like it.

My much talked about 60s Epiphone Texan met the same fate. Sold to pay the rent to a guy who had neither timing nor passion. I hated myself for losing something so dear to me, simply because I couldn't manage my money. Obviously I still think about it.

My suggestion to you is don't agonize over not bonding with the Bart Reiter. Sell it. Now. I've played it, it's a good instrument that someone else will treasure, and you'll get most of your money out of it. Keep looking. You'll find that SPECIAL instrument. Seriously, it's like love at first sight, and it will play your music beautifully. When you find it, NEVER let it go.

Rick

P.S. Being a "lifer" is weird but verrrrry interesting!

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Anglo
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 11:59 AM

P.S. I don't much like my Tubaphone either (original pot, but needs a better neck - I was thinking of Bart Reiter!). I do love my Whyte Laydie though.

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Anglo
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 11:57 AM

Interesting to see Jon Freeman's note above. I got my first good anglo concerina that way in the 70's. A G/D Jeffries that was already spoken for; I knew after 10 seconds it was for me. Rather than try to convince the purchaser that the didn't really want it, I too asked for the right of first refusal, and got a postcard about 3 years later. I had to lose a really nice Edeophone in trade but it was worth it.

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 11:39 AM

Bonnie, I can solve your problem. Just let me know your address and the hours you can be expected to be away. I'll take care of the rest.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 11:34 AM

I think much of my dilemma came from being too anxious to find something really special. Rushing the process. Accepting other's impressions and the reputation of this instrument's maker.
But I am in a good position. From what I understand Bart Reiter is not making anymore tubaphones or whyte ladies so that might increase its value. At least I will not lose too much on a resale. It is in excellent condition.
Willie O, you make a good point, I'll have to take it out from under the bed and play it some to avoid the cost of neglect.
Jon, it really comes down to the fact I never bonded to the thing. Its fancy shmancy and all but its missing personality.
Kendall my ex-mates don't get thrown under the bed, they end up thrown out the window.

Bonnie

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 10:02 AM

I bought 2 instruments based on first impressions/ love at first sight and I have no regrets. The first was a Fyled Falstaff that I wanted after the first time I heard it - asked straight away for first refusal if the owner wanted to sell it - came my way about 4 years later.

The other one was my Kildare Tenor Banjo. I went up to Sully's shop prepared to buy if I found something I liked but I had a couple of other makes in mind too. As it happened, I walked in the door, spotted this one tried it and loved it. Sully asked me to try a few others which I picked up but didn't really pay to much attention to - I knew I had found my instrument.

If I'd had the money, there have been several other intstuments I would have bought at first sight...

I think I would always be inclined to trust my love at first sight judgement but I have let instruments find me. OK, I went to Sully's shop but even so, that particular banjo just sorta leapt out at me...

Jon

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: kendall
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:54 AM

Jeez Bonnie, do your old relationships end up under the bed too? Seriously, I know a guy here in Camden who is an excellent luthier, and he builds exact replicas of the Vega "White Layde" (sic) ?? how about one of those?

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Willie-O
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:40 AM

You never know what might happen in the future. But the "don't buy anything on first impressions" rule is a good one. Always sleep on it. (the decision, not the instrument). Whatever the seller says, it will _always_ be there tomorrow, if not next week.

If you never developed an emotional attachment to the instrument, and you're pretty sure it's not the one for you, now's probably the best time to deal it out. For one thing, it's probably still in tip-top shape, n'est-ce pas? Unplayed ignored instruments, even banjos, have nasty habits of warping and rusting and becoming less attractive to others the longer you ignore them.

I have instruments hanging around for the past twenty years that I don't play, it's just a matter of my indecisiveness after so long. Actually one instrument in particular. It's an open-back banjo.

Beware inertia.

W-O

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:25 AM

Jimmy C, care to PM me your address, and times you are likely to be out of the house?

Murray

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Jimmy C
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:20 AM

I have a number of tenor banjos. The first one I bought in 1958 I did not really like but could afford nothing else. but it holds some good early memories. In 1967 I acquired a second one that I feel very comfortable with. We "Bonded" by being together almost 6 nights a week for 20 years or more. Recently I acquired an antique 1895 Bacon Blue Ribbon and loved it from the first time I played it. If I had to keep only one, I don't know which one it would be. Fortunately I play all three of them as often as possible. I do have a few others others that just lie there, they could be stolen and I would not miss them, they are fairly decent instruments but the fit is just not there.

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:12 AM

What's gone wrong Bonnie and what don't you like about the Bart Reiter? I take it you did actually play it yourself before buying.

As for what to do, I guess if you really don't like it, I suppose the answer is to sell it or part-ex it for one you do like. I'm not sure how much you will lose on the deal but as far as I am aware, Bart Reiter's are excellent instruments - I wouldn't have thought it would be too hard to find a customer for it.

Jon

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Little Hawk
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:07 AM

I've had things like that happen too.

The best rule, I think, is to not buy an instrument unless you've gone the store on 3 different occasions and played it. If after the 3rd occasion you still feel it is right for you, it probably is.

But even that is not an absolute guarantee.

The important thing though, when choosing an instrument, is not the brand name, not the reputation, not someone else's opinion...but do you like it? And how much? Does it feel right to you?

- LH

Subject: RE: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: MMario
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 09:03 AM

Are you enjoying the "old" banjo still? If so - ditch the "good" one - and wait until you find one that *is* love at first frail.

Subject: Thought I Bought The Perfect Instrument
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 08:57 AM

I did the research to find the perfect banjo. I asked several banjo nerd experts what I should be looking for and was given excellent advice. I went on a road trip with Guy Wolff to check out all the different types of banjos available. I narrowed my choice down to a tubaphone and was given a demonstration by Arnie Naiman of different tubaphones from different banjo makers so I could make my final decision. I settle on a Reiter Tubaphone. Its a 'good banjo'.
But guess what? Its under my bed collecting dust. Me and my good banjo never bonded.
I figure I went about this quest all wrong. I thought I did all the right things but it was not 'love at first frail'. I was so impatient to get my good banjo right away.
Kind of like a romantic relationship. Best not to try too hard to find one.

Can anyone else relate?
What do I do? Just leave my good banjo under the bed for now? (I have another banjo I can play for now)

Little Neo