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who gets Publius Enigma?

Angie 05 Jul 01 - 08:26 PM
catspaw49 05 Jul 01 - 08:34 PM
rangeroger 05 Jul 01 - 08:36 PM
Angie 05 Jul 01 - 08:39 PM
Matt_R 05 Jul 01 - 08:44 PM
Matt_R 05 Jul 01 - 08:54 PM
DougR 05 Jul 01 - 08:56 PM
Matt_R 05 Jul 01 - 08:59 PM
Amos 05 Jul 01 - 10:43 PM
Bill D 05 Jul 01 - 10:54 PM
CarolC 05 Jul 01 - 11:04 PM
catspaw49 06 Jul 01 - 12:03 AM
Bill D 06 Jul 01 - 12:16 AM
catspaw49 06 Jul 01 - 12:23 AM
Dave the Gnome 06 Jul 01 - 04:43 AM
Angie 06 Jul 01 - 06:31 AM
Angie 06 Jul 01 - 12:36 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Jul 01 - 02:12 PM
Bill D 06 Jul 01 - 04:56 PM
Angie 06 Jul 01 - 08:37 PM
GUEST 06 Jul 01 - 08:56 PM
GUEST,Guest, RichM 06 Jul 01 - 09:02 PM
Bill D 06 Jul 01 - 09:17 PM
CarolC 06 Jul 01 - 09:26 PM
Liz the Squeak 07 Jul 01 - 02:01 AM
SeanM 07 Jul 01 - 03:29 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Jul 01 - 05:53 AM
Angie 07 Jul 01 - 08:48 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Jul 01 - 09:53 AM
Dave (the ancient mariner) 07 Jul 01 - 10:07 AM
Bill D 07 Jul 01 - 11:14 AM
McGrath of Harlow 07 Jul 01 - 12:34 PM
Matt_R 07 Jul 01 - 02:03 PM
Angie 09 Jul 01 - 05:05 PM
GUEST 09 Jul 01 - 05:16 PM
McGrath of Harlow 09 Jul 01 - 06:11 PM
GUEST,RichM 09 Jul 01 - 06:15 PM
mousethief 09 Jul 01 - 06:19 PM
IanC 10 Jul 01 - 06:30 AM
Gervase 10 Jul 01 - 07:22 AM
Angie 10 Jul 01 - 06:21 PM
mousethief 10 Jul 01 - 07:00 PM
SeanM 11 Jul 01 - 05:39 AM
Angie 12 Jul 01 - 07:16 PM
GUEST,southern cross 15 Mar 15 - 06:33 PM
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Subject: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Angie
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 08:26 PM

any floyd heads ..can you help with enigma?


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: catspaw49
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 08:34 PM

Publious Enigma? Floyd's head? What is this, some kinda' porn thing or somethin'????

Spaw


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: rangeroger
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 08:36 PM

Actually I find it all rather enigmatic.

rr


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Angie
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 08:39 PM

my problem in a nut shell


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Matt_R
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 08:44 PM

OK, here we go...

During the 1994 Pink Floyd Division Bell tour, a self-described messenger (using the common Latin first name Publius) started posting to the Usenet group alt.music.pink-floyd through an anonymous contact service. The letters use the following subject line or some variation of it: ">}}}}}}}}} T H E M E S S A G E {{{{{{{{{". (The name Publius was also used as a pseudonym early in U.S. history by the writers of The Federalist Papers. John Jay, James Madison, and Alexander Hamilton wrote under one name to promote discussion of an idea.) The posts continued on an irregular basis, with a mysterious tone and many ambiguous clues, inviting us to look at the new album with open minds, discuss it in the newsgroup, and solve some sort of enigma or puzzle in The Division Bell. Publius promised a unique, tangible prize.

The newsgroup was generally pretty annoyed by the posts, but on July 16, Publius told us to watch for a sign: flashing white lights, East Rutherford, New Jersey, July 18, at about 10:30 p.m. At the Pink Floyd show in N.J. that night, "ENIGMA PUBLIUS" was displayed from the foot of the stage by the lights they use during KT and ABITW. Then more people accepted that Publius was on the level and began to take the enigma more seriously, excitedly looking for clues. They believe they have found some.

Many theories have been entertained, but we don't know who Publius is. Publius says that his/her/their identity is unimportant. Douglas Adams, the friend of the band who suggested the name of the album, said in 1994 that he was not involved and was not aware of band involvement. In May 1995, it was reported that neither Durga McBroom or Jon Carin, two supporting performers on the 1994 tour, were aware of an enigma.

Another sign was predicted last fall by Publius, and on October 20 the word ENIGMA was projected in large letters on the back of the stage during the beginning of Another Brick In The Wall Part 2 during a show at Earls Court in London. This show was televised in Europe the same night, and in the U.S. on November 1. Publius then posted that this sign was the world-wide announcement of the enigma. In June 1995, the same show was released on videotape, and the signal remains. However, the word is now disguised somewhat with added strokes on the letters.

In late 1994, A Momentary Lapse of Reason was released in MiniDisc format, with revised artwork in the booklet. On one photo is the plain white text ENIGMA, and on another is the plain white text PUBLIUS.

In the fall, Guitar World magazine received a packet of newsgroup articles about the enigma (sent anonymously) and writer Dan Amrich collected information from the newsgroup via email. The resulting article in the January 1995 issue unfortunately featured artwork that confused newcomers to this investigation. The pictures depicting clues hidden in TDB's cover art are purely fictional representations. The microscopic clues shown aren't actually in TDB art. GW did an update of the situation in their March 1995 issue.

Writer Neil Strauss also received a packet of newsgroup articles last fall "from the Publius-Concern" -- that is, from someone using that name without the knowledge of the group. His February 16, 1995 New York Times music column, The Pop Life, discussed the events surrounding the enigma. Mr. Strauss interviewed the band members and manager early in the tour. He described them as having a mysterious air and as saying that "there's all sorts of other things" in TDB, and that clues would be forthcoming. When asked about the sound-clip on the first minute of the album and the quiet phone conversation at the end of it, David Gilmour said, "I like puzzling people." Asked if some songs are veiled references to Roger Waters, he smiled and said, "Are they? You'll just have to work it out for yourself."

An article in the June 5, 1995 Toronto Star mentioned the puzzle, and other papers have used the information from the N.Y. Times story.

Publius said he will not solve the enigma for us, and that it will require considerable cooperative effort on our part. Because early Publius speculation in the newgroup was hampered by flamers, some people began using private email to develop theories. In fact, it would be more accurate to say that all discussion in the newsgroup was hampered by flamers. However, Publius has said that the ideas should be discussed openly, so virtually all discussion of the enigma has returned to alt.music.pink-floyd. There are still skeptics, and it's wise to be considerate of them so as not to rekindle the flames.

Here are a couple of recommendations to minimize the problems: If you don't want to see the discussion, use a "kill file" filter if you can. When discussing the enigma, please use a subject line with the name Publius in it so skeptics have a simple way to filter it. Similarly, skeptics should avoid using a Publius subject line, since argument with believers is a pointless waste of resources. Lastly, an often neglected point of "netiquette": don't be lazy and abuse the "reply" command, retaining the old subject line when you are changing the subject of the news thread. Always avoid starting a new topic of discussion using an old subject line. When this sort of abuse gets out of hand, it can appear that the news is dominated by one topic when that's not actually true. It can also lead some people who might have been interested to ignore your post.


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Matt_R
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 08:54 PM

Thou canst find more here.


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: DougR
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 08:56 PM

Did you make a note of all that, Spaw?


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Matt_R
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 08:59 PM

Shades of "Paul Is Dead".


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Amos
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 10:43 PM

My response is pretty much the same as it was when teenyboppers were mucking up a perfectly good musical repute with their "reverse play" silliness.

DON'T THESE PEOPLE HAVE ANYTHING BETTER TO DO WITH THEIR GOD-GIVEN TALENTS????

Best regards,

A


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Bill D
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 10:54 PM

Pink Floyd AIN'T folk...go AWAY!..

Bill D,... who resisted saying anything to the last 7-8 dippy twerps who yammered some arcane rock/pop trivia crap here simply because there's lots of posts and good software...!....we make enough nonsense of our own without this type of nonsense being overlaid!


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: CarolC
Date: 05 Jul 01 - 11:04 PM

I heard they've got a new antibiotic that can take care of that sort of thing pretty quickly...


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:03 AM

See? I knew this was porn stuff! I'm with Bill.

Spaw


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:16 AM

hey...porn I can handle! If I want it, it is 'out there'....it doesn't come here and inundate my 'cat threads..(well, except for kat's piercing links..*grin*...and that was ONLY a link!


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:23 AM

Yeah......and gawd knows they were "piercing" in their reality!

Spaw


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 04:43 AM

Public Enema? How embarasing....

DtG


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Angie
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 06:31 AM

phew...thanks Matt


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Angie
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:36 PM

music comes in many forms, folk is but one. Pink Flloyd is another (almost earning it's own genre). There is good and bad to be found in all areas, each is personal taste. Matt_R, thankyou for your informative posting. bill d, thankyou for your musical opinion. At least we're talking!


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 02:12 PM

All in all another brick in the wall, I'd say...


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 04:56 PM

why, angie, you are ENTIRELY correct...'many forms'..'good & bad'...etc., ...but the sign on the door says "folk & blues"...and I never cease wondering why people look at that and then ignore it and ask about EVERYTHING else! You don't go into an Italian restaurant and ask for Chop Suey.

There are 'gray' areas, but Pink Floyd is not one. (maybe a Pink area?)

A search on "Pink Floyd" got me over 240,000 hits...surely one of those places is better suited


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Angie
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 08:37 PM

Yes I totally agree that this is predominantly a folk and blues forum for which I am eternally gratefull as it is excellent, however you all seemed so approachable and going on some of the other threads ie "first meeting of strange food anonymous" I didn't see the harm in asking a music based question , all be it not particularly of the genre that is what Mudcat is all about. Apologies for any faux pas on my part, no annoyance intended, and I did find some of the replies very enlightening. Thankyou.


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 08:56 PM

Angie, ask your questions. You are responding in a very gracious way to some provocative comments here.

To those who profess to define and limit 'folk" music, I refer you to another current thread started by Stephen Suffet: "A Real Folksinger"

"...A real folksinger understands that folk music is not a genre. A real folksinger understands that any song can be a folksong..."

see

http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=36303


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: GUEST,Guest, RichM
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 09:02 PM

Hmmm...why am I "guesting" tonight? The last comment was mine. RichM


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 09:17 PM

angie is being very nice...I just happen to disagree with her. I see her point, and I shudder to imagine what it would be like here if many more rock or pop fans figure out how 'approachable' we are...*big grin*....

..and where does anyone get the right to just state that "folk music is not a genre"?...silliest thing I have heard in ages...it has been a FINE genré until it was discovered that the NAME was useful, but adhering to limits was too much trouble.

If folk is NOT a genré, why use the term? Why not just call everything 'music'?....To enlarge on my previous metaphor, if yuo go into a reastaurant and ask for 'food', you'll get a funny look. We have categories for a reason, and if you browse the DigiTrad DB, you will see a certain similarity in the things there, even if a 'precise' definition is not possible. (I do NOT think Pink Floyd is included)...I KNOW that the edges get fuzzy, but YOU know that "Wayfaring Stranger" is not in the same group as "Stardust" or "Purple Rain"......

I am quite aware that I can't stop off-topic meanderings, and I can't prevent 'accessable' folks from answering them, (polite or not)...but I can occasionally keep the issue open and make a few people think about it.

(and I DO use MY name to discuss the issue!)


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 09:26 PM

Ok, since the question's already on the table, here's what I want to know. I know I risk bringing the wrath of any number of people down upon my head for saying this, but I've been wondering about it for a while now...

The people who adhere to a strict definition of what 'folk' music is, say that it is music that has stood the test of time. Many of these same people express a sense of urgency about getting as many 'folk' songs into the data-base as possible, as quickly as possible, for fear that they might disappear otherwise.

So here's where I get confused... if they're on the brink of disappearing, it seems to me they haven't stood the test of time and are therefore, using the same strict definition, not folk songs.


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 02:01 AM

When they stop playing Floyd on Folk on 2, I'll stop considering it as folk music. Same goes for any number of bands that I wouldn't consider as folk, but have all appeared at some point on Folk on 2......

And if folk songs are 'by the people, for the people, about the people', then what the heck is 'Part of the Union' (apart from being a damn good song....)?

LTS


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: SeanM
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 03:29 AM

And JUST to be a contrary bastard and muddle the waters further, anyone a fan of the Floyd album "Meddle"? Decent blues number on that one. "Shamus" I believe?

M


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 05:53 AM

Oh God, the what-is-folk virus has crept into yet another thread... Actually I quite enjoy the effects, so loong as we realize there is never going to be a answer.

"What is folk?" is a bit like "what is money?" - is a foreign coin, or a coin or note that is no longer legal tender really money? For some purposes, like collecting or tossing a coin it is, for other purposes, like spending, it's not. And then some foreign currency which isn't legal tender is perfectly acceptable in m many shops. And where does barter and plastic crdit and debit cards and IOUs come?

The popint is the things that human beings use to deal with each other can't in practice be tied themselves down to neat categories. A bit of paper or metal will count as money here and not there, and now and not then. And the same goes for a song counting as folk.


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Angie
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 08:48 AM

Hello Mudcats, I have been watching from afar for a day or two and I like what I see. This site is really quite cool (but not kewl). You have drawn me in and as I spiral ever inwards I pray for my wings.


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 09:53 AM

Happy landings! Welcome.


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 10:07 AM

Just aside (one of the best grilled steaks I ever ate was prepared in a Chinese restaurant) MattR your kindness in responding to a question on this forum, and sharing your wealth of knowledge, should be complemented not abused in the manner it was. Perhaps the subject was not Folk or Blues but at least it does have a Musical connection. Yours, Aye. Dave


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 11:14 AM

"The people who adhere to a strict definition of what 'folk' music is, say that it is music that has stood the test of time. Many of these same people express a sense of urgency about getting as many 'folk' songs into the data-base as possible, as quickly as possible, for fear that they might disappear otherwise."

....hmmm, that is not an argument I have seen...it has a certain appeal, but we aren't likely to 'lose' many good folk songs....the DB is just to centralize access.

As to 'strict' definition, there is none...but there are very useful 'general' definitions that allow the terms 'folk' & 'traditional' to be useful. One approach that I encourage is to browse the Digitrad database a LOT...then ask yourself what common characteristics most of those songs have, and how they differ from well-known songs which are not in it.

(And I would never claim that a Chinese restaurant could not grill a decent steak..*smile*...only that the result would not be called 'traditional' Chinese cooking...I'm sure there are a few French places where they will cook your kids a hamburger.)

I shall, once again, retreat into the shadows about this topic, as those who disagree with me 'usually' manage to avoid direct confrontation with my main points...i.e...it is NOT an argument against my point whether Matt knows a lot and shared it willingly, it is rather that he has regularly and harshly in the past (less so recently)been disparaging ABOUT folk music in general and about old curmudgeons like me, and has used the forum to promote HIS favorite music, whether or not it had relevance. (Yes his memory of interesting quotations is astounding and often poetically relevant...and I have NOT been yelling about that....I only quibble about the direction things will go if ANYTHING is treated as 'folk'...)

Ok...enuf..sorry I said anything...I was in a grumpy mood back up there ^ and should have restrained myself....if you want more...PM me...


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 12:34 PM

"we aren't likely to 'lose' many good folk songs"

Survival of the fittest is nonsense when it comes to songs. Some of the best songs we have were only collected once, from some old man or woman close to death.

Most the of time the DT is to do with handy access to songs we coild find elsewhere. But it's also a safe place where songs and variants that aren't elsewhere can be deposited, and be available.


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Matt_R
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 02:03 PM

Sure, I love Meddle. "Seamus" is a great blues song, including the constant dog howling. I found the delta blues-influenced musical score of the movie-version of Rosencranz & Guildenstern Are Dead very similar to "Seamus". I almost wanted to howl like Seamus when I heard it.

As for the other stuff, I had no idea I was being a musical dictator or a dippy twerp. I'll lay off talking about music now.


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Angie
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 05:05 PM

A tip of the hat to Matt_R, Sqeaky Liz and RichM for informative and wise words. A special nod also to McGrath of Harlow for a warm welcome. By way of introduction, I am a music fan, of the whole spectrum. "As we gaze upon the glory of the rainbow we all have a favourite colour". Folk, blues, rock, punk, (even all this modern stuff, house, jungle, break beat, garage (whatever that means)) are all but colours of my rainbow. To deny any would destroy all. I have a favourite shade of all colours, some more than others. Don't we all!

Folk Songs, steeped in history, still relevant. When written, each were, regardless of content by definition,.. 'modern'. Now to the point. If I were to write a song today, it would be modern. To a twelve string accompaniment with tin whistles and bodhran, it would be a modern folk song. To hard electric, lots of gain, through the pedals, big drums, crashing symbols, a blazing cacophony of distortion, it would be heavy-metal. The Song? The Song would be the same at the heart of things and had I written it, I would love them both like twins. Equally, for different reasons.

Enough for now, I apologise for my verbosity but hope to have put a new slant on this train of thought.


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 05:16 PM

California sunlight
Sweet Calcutta rain
Honolulu starbright
The song remains the same


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 06:11 PM

Just so long as it can still be sung when the elctricity has been cut off, Mal.


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: GUEST,RichM
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 06:15 PM

True, McGrath.

Always carry spare batteries. :)

Rich


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: mousethief
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 06:19 PM

Pink Floyd isn't folk, but they did a lot of blues-influenced stuff, particularly in their early days. They are named, after all, after two blues giants, Pink Anderson and mumblemumble Floyd. I have a great mp3 of them doing 12-bar blues that rocks the house.

I get sick of the folkies who forget that this is a folk AND BLUES site.

As for the question, "Who gets Publious Enigma" -- I'd say anybody who has intimate sexual relations with someone already infected, without latex protection.


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: IanC
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 06:30 AM

Hate to say this, but those people who are saying there isn't a grey area between Pink Floyd and Folk may not know too much about Pink Floyd's history. Grantchester Meadows (Ummagumma) has always struck me as much more folky than many of the "soft pop" performers who claim to write and sing "folk music". Just like The Beatles, early Pink Floyd was probably an important influence on manyn people on this forum and songs like "Arnold Lane" in partuclar seem to me to have become "traditional" in that they are sung quite spontaneously by a section of the population nearly 40 years after they were first recorded. What is a folk song if not what folk sing?

As for the "reverse play" silliness ... I'm incvlined to agree it's just that.

Cheers!
Ian


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Gervase
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 07:22 AM

Bang on, Ian. The early Floyd always sounded folkish to me - until I discovered dubious substances and lay on the floor with speakers either side of my head and Echoes scrambling my brain.
In fact, it's probably Pink Floyd that made me what I am today and yes, if you send them the wool, they'll make you one, too!.
And some of the Barret/Mason/Gilmore canon has undergone the folk process - certainly if some of the jams late at night at Sidmouth are anything to go by. I've heard Money and Shine on You Crazy Diamond both played in the wee hours. Not played well, mind you, but certainly played (and joined in with, if that's not terminally inexcusable grammar!).


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Angie
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 06:21 PM

Gervase, I totally concur. We were at the Girvan Folk Festival a couple of months ago in bonnie Scotland, and yes The Floyd raised it's 'ugly' head. Not brilliantly, in fact quite poorly but Floyd nonetheless. Marvellous. IanC, music to my ears.

Oh, shine on all you crazy diamonds.


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: mousethief
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 07:00 PM

I was in the kitchen, Seamus (that's the dog) was outside....

Alex


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: SeanM
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 05:39 AM

Heck, we've been through this with other musicians over the years (Jimmy Buffett comes to mind currently), and it just keeps reinforcing something I've come to believe.

In my opinion, folk is not a 'definable genre' in the way something is performed (as 'rap' is), the way the songs are constructed (several forms of jazz), the way the band is performing (several variants of 'classical'), or any of the rest.

Folk, to me, is the living, breathing part of the 'public domain' as it was intended to be - the songs that strike some sort of universal chord that resonates beyond just the moment, so that the song stays alive and vital over time. Time really doesn't seem to have all that much to do with it, though it DOES tend to isolate those songs which over the years have become 'folk music'.

But in the end - every song had a writer, every melody a musician to create it. Every song was 'new' at some point in it's existence. We're fortunate to have the ability to preserve the old - but that doesn't mean that what we hear today won't be considered the 'traditional folk' of tomorrow.

However, if "Hit Me Baby, One More Time" (or ANYTHING that's put out by Britney Spears or kin) turns folk, I'm carving a bloody path through the nearest Wal-Mart music section, I swear I will!

M


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Subject: RE: who gets Publious Enigma?
From: Angie
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 07:16 PM

SeanM, I agree with almost everything you have said. The 'greyness' comes with your penultimate paragraph. Folk, or rather what I personally perceive as folk music , traditional folk that is, does seem to me to have a certain sound or feel to it. Does the fact that it is already traditional preclude it from modern influences?


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Subject: RE: who gets Publius Enigma?
From: GUEST,southern cross
Date: 15 Mar 15 - 06:33 PM

The PINK FLOYD publius enigma is real, its within POLES APART.


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