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Origins: Sally in our Alley

Magdi N. Kamel 01 Jan 98 - 08:34 PM
Bruce O. 01 Jan 98 - 11:45 PM
Murray 02 Jan 98 - 03:13 AM
dulcimer 03 Jan 98 - 08:51 PM
Joe Offer 03 Jan 98 - 11:28 PM
dulcimer 04 Jan 98 - 10:25 AM
Bruce O 04 Jan 98 - 01:05 PM
Murray 16 Jan 98 - 03:12 AM
Wolfgang Hell 16 Jan 98 - 04:03 AM
Wolfgang 16 Jan 98 - 04:13 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 16 Sep 04 - 11:59 PM
Steve Parkes 17 Sep 04 - 05:30 AM
Azizi 17 Sep 04 - 09:13 AM
Charley Noble 17 Sep 04 - 09:47 AM
Azizi 17 Sep 04 - 09:59 AM
Jeri 17 Sep 04 - 10:41 AM
Azizi 17 Sep 04 - 11:45 AM
Q (Frank Staplin) 17 Sep 04 - 02:29 PM
Snuffy 17 Sep 04 - 04:36 PM
Charley Noble 18 Sep 04 - 12:37 PM
Steve Parkes 20 Sep 04 - 03:57 AM
shipcmo 22 Jan 11 - 10:35 AM
MGM·Lion 22 Jan 11 - 11:45 AM
MGM·Lion 22 Jan 11 - 11:47 AM
Charley Noble 22 Jan 11 - 03:04 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Jan 11 - 03:17 PM
MGM·Lion 22 Jan 11 - 03:27 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 22 Jan 11 - 03:52 PM
GUEST,B Zone 14 Apr 11 - 06:45 AM
GUEST,iyenori 31 Jan 12 - 03:02 PM
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Subject: Sally in our Alley
From: Magdi N. Kamel
Date: 01 Jan 98 - 08:34 PM

I am interested in finding a .wav or .mid of the traditional English song "Sally in Our Alley" lyrics by Henry Carey and music by Frank Bridge.

Are there any other variations of this song?

Thanks for the help.


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Bruce O.
Date: 01 Jan 98 - 11:45 PM

Where does one find a traditional version?
Who is Frank Bridge?
The original tune for Carey's song was composed by Carey himself. It was later [in 1818, and possibly earlier] set to "The Country Lass". A single sheet song with music issue says 'The words and tune by Mr. Carey'.

"Sally's New Answer Set to the tune of Moggy Lowther" is another single sheet song, commencing "And is there that a Lad so Smart in this our Humble Ally".

An imitation In 'Miscellanies in Verse', 1727 is one commencing "Of all the girls that e'er were seen, There's none so fine as Nelly'.

The song to the tune of "Black Joke" in 'The Beggars' Wedding', 1729, looks rather like an immitation, also. This commmences "Of all the girls in our town or black, or yellow, or brown" (Also on a single sheet with music).


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Murray
Date: 02 Jan 98 - 03:13 AM

Frank Bridge (1879-1941) was an English composer, a bit underrated it seems, best known for his pupil Benjamin Britten's "Variations on a Theme of Frank Bridge". He wrote songs, and may very well have written a new tune for Carey's words; or maybe he just arranged it, which is as likely.How you get the tune, though....


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: dulcimer
Date: 03 Jan 98 - 08:51 PM

Somewhere I picked up at least two tunes to Sally in Our Alley, possibly from a book by Campbell on the history of English Music, notoriously bias against Celtic sources. But I would have to check it out further. Madgi, if you want what I have, contact through personal message e-mail with your snail mail address. I can run a copy and do some further searching. Bruce,


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Jan 98 - 11:28 PM

Is there somebody who can post lyrics to this song? I did a search under "sally alley" and this is what I came up with - is this the song you're talking about?
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: Lyr Add: SALLY IN OUR ALLEY
From: dulcimer
Date: 04 Jan 98 - 10:25 AM

First, Bruce O.--is Moggy Lowther (tune) an early version of the Scottish tune Maggie Lauder?

Second, here are six verses, unfortunately I cut off the source:

Of all the girls that are so smart
There's none like pretty Sally,
She is the darling of my heart,
And she lives in our alley.
There is no lady in the land
That's half so sweet as Sally
She is the darling of my heart
And lives in our alley.

Her father he makes cabbage-nets
And through the streets does cry 'em;
Her mother she sells laces long
To such as please to buy 'em;
But sure such folks could ne'er beget
So sweet a girl as Sally!
She is the darling of my heart
And lives in our alley.

When she is by, I leave my work,
I love her so sincerely:
My master comes like any Turk,
And bangs me most severely,
But let her bang his bellyful,--
I'll bear it all for Sally;
For she's the darling of my...

Of all the days that's in the week,
I dearly love but one day,
And that's the day that comes betwixt
The Saturday and Monday;
For then I'm drest all in my best,
To walk abroad with Sally,
She is the darling...

My master carries me to church
And often am I blamed
Because I leave him in the lurch
As soon as text is named;
I leave the church in sermon-time
And l slink away to Sally
She is the darling...

When Christmas comes about again,
Oh, then I shall have money!
I'll hoard it up, and box and all,
I'll give it to my honey;
Oh, would it were ten thousand pound!
I'd give it all to Sally:
For she's the darling . . .

Magdi--I have an unsubstantiated note that the song may have been sung to the tune for Jock O'Hazeldean.

HTML line breaks added. --JoeClone, 31-Jul-02.


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Bruce O
Date: 04 Jan 98 - 01:05 PM

"Sally in our Alley" (c 1714-15?) is given in Wm. Chappell's PMOT with Carey's tune and "The Country Lass". Chappell cites several other songs to the tune. His date of 1760 for switch to tune "The Country Lass" couldn't be confirmed by C. M. Simpson in 'The British Broadside Ballad and Its Music', 1966. Simpson cited a copy of 1818 with "The Country Lass" tune. [I wanted to mention this earlier, but had misplaced my second volume of PMOT, and couldn't trust my memory.]

"Moggy Lawther/Lowther [on a day]" is in 8 ballad operas commencing with 'The Quaker's Opera', 1728. According to J. Glen it is in an early edition (c 1725-7?) of Adam Craig's 'Scots Tunes'. In the 1730 edition it is "Maggie Lauder", pp 38-40. It appeared as a rather variant version, "Moggy Lauther" in 'A Choice Collection of Country Dances' published by the Neals in Dublin, c 1726. The song for it is "The Scotch Lass's Lamentation for the Loss of her Maiden Head" in Evan's 'Old Ballads', II, p. 258-60, 1723. "Maggy Lawder" appears to be a later song to the tune. I don't know any very precise date, for it. [Help, Murray S.]


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Murray
Date: 16 Jan 98 - 03:12 AM

A 7th verse [in Chappell, 648]: My master and the neighbours all, Make game of me and Sally, And but for her I'd better be A slave, and row a galley: But when my sev'n long years are out [= his apprenticeship], Oh, then I'll marry Sally, And then how happily we'll live-- But not in our alley.

Chappell expurgates here, for the penultimate line I've seen elsewhere is "Oh then we''l wed, and then we'll bed", or so.

Maggie Lauder--let me look this up.


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Wolfgang Hell
Date: 16 Jan 98 - 04:03 AM

here are the lyrics to Sally... from the on-line Oxford Book of English Verse
Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Jan 98 - 04:13 AM

may I recommend this site (http://ingeb.org/) for its many midi's, including "Sally in our Alley"
Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 16 Sep 04 - 11:59 PM

"Sally in Our Alley" by Henry Carey is best and most completely presented in The Oxford Book of English Verse, on line by Bartleby, and linked by Wolfgang.

There is a broadside in the Bodleian Collection with the title "Sally of Our Alley," printed by J. Pitts, London, c. 1802-1819, with the first line 'Of all the girls in our town' rather than the usual 'Of all the girls that are so smart,' which seems to be the line Carey wrote, and which rhymes with 'heart' in the third line. It includes the 'we'll bed' verse which is left out in Chappell.

The abbreviated version in the DT is a sad little fragment that should be replaced.


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 05:30 AM

I bought a pile of sheet music, mnostly poular songs, the other day; one of them was "They're building a new alley for Sally". I Haven't looked at it yet, but I think it's referring to post-war rebuilding in Britain. I'll check it out over the weekend.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 09:13 AM

I suppose there is no way of ever knowing, but I wonder if anyone else has wondered about a connection between "Sally In Our Alley" and the African American children's rhyme "Here Comes Sally."

In her 1989 book & music tape titled "Shake It To The One That You Love The Best", Cheryl Warren Mattox presents these words:

Here comes Sally,Sally, Sally
Here comes Sally all night long.
So step back Sally, Sally, Sally
step back Sally all night long
Struttin down the alley, alley, alley
Struttin down the alley all night long.

Mattox describes this as a line game that is played with the following directions: Form two lines with partners facing each other.
Dance individualized steps and clap your hands throughout the first part of the song. Take three steps back from your partner on the line, "Step back Sally", to make room for an aisle. Then sashay down the aisle with your partner on "Struttin down the alley.". Pantomime the actions indicated by the rest of the song."

Of course, there are alot of folk songs in which the girl's name is "Sally" and "alley" is an easy rhyme with that name. So there may be no connection at all between this {or any other Sally children's rhyme} and the "The Sally In The Alley" lyrics.

Does anyone have an opinion regarding this?

I'm also interested in other possible sources for children's rhymes that are traditional to African American culture or otherwise...

Any information or links will be appreciated.


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Charley Noble
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 09:47 AM

And there should be at least one reference here to the West Indies sea shanty "Bully in the Alley" which features Sally and her abode at Shinbone Al.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 09:59 AM

What are the words to "Bully in the Alley"?


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 10:41 AM

Here's Bully in the Alley, but there are only three verses. If you click on the threads at the top, you'll find a few more verses and more information.

Glad you joined, Azizi!


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Azizi
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 11:45 AM

Thanks,

I'm enjoying the company and learning alot!


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 02:29 PM

A musical comedy, "Sally in Our Alley," was popular around 1900.
Several English sheet music publishers put out Carey's "Sally..." without attribution in the late 19th-early 20th c.

As a child, I seem to remember a pop song "Sally in Our Alley," but so far I haven't found it. Anyone know of it?


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Snuffy
Date: 17 Sep 04 - 04:36 PM

The Carpenter Collection has a version of Bully in the Alley collected from James Forman of Leith. He was born in 1844 and first went to sea in 1856. The notes say 'Learned as a boy before going to sea.'

So is it from the West Indies, or even originally a sea-song at all? Mr Forman's version uses the familiar tune and goes:

Oh, oh I'm Billy in the army
I lost my coat in Storey's Alley
Oh, oh I'm Billy in the army
[unintelligible - girl's name?]she was my fancy
Oh, oh I'm Billy in the army
She put me out because I'd no money
Oh, oh I'm Billy in the army


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Subject: RE: Sally in our Alley
From: Charley Noble
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 12:37 PM

Snuffy-

Wow! The Carpenter Collection certainly stretches the mind and, yes, "Billy in the Army" could indeed be related to "Bully in the Alley" or just a fragment from James Forman's deteriorated mind. If James only had access to Mudcat, it might have kept his musical brain cells connected, but more likely he would have degenerated into a troll.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: They're building a new alley for Sally
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 20 Sep 04 - 03:57 AM

That sheet music: published 1941, with a picture of a rather well-dressed Sally in her 20s looking at a construction site in the distance ... presumably the Alley has been bombed in the Blitz and now it's being rebuilt. The words aren't very special, and I won't bother copying them (unless anyone really wants them). I guess the song is a follow-up to the pop version Q mentions, with the particular wartime associations. Probably intended as a morale-booster, too.

Steve


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Subject: RE: Origins: Sally in our Alley
From: shipcmo
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 10:35 AM

I think there is a Shin Bone Alley in Bermuda


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Subject: RE: Origins: Sally in our Alley
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 11:45 AM

Sally in Our Alley (1931) is a romantic drama comedy [film], starring Gracie Fields, Ian Hunter, and Florence Desmond.
The film incorporated Gracie Fields' hugely popular signature song, Sally, itself an reference to Henry Carey's 1725 song, Sally in Our Alley, which had long been a traditional English country dance.===

PresumSably this is the popular song version refd & queried about by Q, 17 Sep 04 02.29 PM, remembered from his childhood ===
Here it is···

SALLY

(Will E. Haines / Harry Leon / Leo Towers)

Gracie Fields


Sally, Sally don't ever wander
Away from the alley and me
Sally, Sally marry me Sally
And happy forever I'll be
When skies are blue you're beguiling
And when they're grey you're still smiling, smiling
Sally, Sally pride of our alley
You're more than the whole world to me.

The skies were blue when I met you, Sally
You were my gal, my little pal, so true
You came along, made life a song, Sally
If I lost you I wonder what I'd do.

Sally, Sally don't ever wander
Away from the alley and me
Sally, Sally marry me Sally
And happy forever I'll be
When skies are blue you're beguiling
And when they're grey you're still smiling, smiling
Sally, Sally pride of our alley
You're more than the whole world to me.

~Michael~


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Subject: RE: Origins: Sally in our Alley
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 11:47 AM

Initial quote in my post above is from Wikipedia.

~M~


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Subject: RE: Origins: Sally in our Alley
From: Charley Noble
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 03:04 PM

Stan Hugill mentions this missing shanty in his Bosun's Locker, pp. 212-213.

"Sally in Our Alley" is noted there from Haley's N. Cole's The Whale Hunt: 1848-1853.

Cheerily,
Charley Noble


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Subject: RE: Origins: Sally in our Alley
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 03:17 PM

"Sally in Our Alley," musical comedy, music by Ludwig Englander (1853-1914), libretto by George B. Hobart, two acts, New York, 29 August, 1902. 64 performances.

The Guide to Light Opera and Operetta: http://www.musicaltheatreguide.com/composers/englander/ludwig_%20englander.htm

To complete a reference given above. Content of musical comedy not known to me.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Sally in our Alley
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 03:27 PM

Q ~~ that is interesting. Here tho is Wiki's summary of the Gracie Fields film, clearly a separate work from the NY musical of 1902:

==Plot summary

A British soldier (Ian Hunter) goes off to fight in World War I, with his girlfriend (Gracie Fields) waiting and worried at home. He is soon wounded in battle and crippled. He comes to the conclusion that she would be better off believing that he has been killed so she can get on with her life. She gets the news and is devastated. Several years later she is still grieving for him, but he has now been cured and goes looking for her==

~M~


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Subject: RE: Origins: Sally in our Alley
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 22 Jan 11 - 03:52 PM

Gracie starred in the 1930's stage production; Marie Cahill in the 1902 production.


The first uses of Carey's poemand/or play based thereon in film:
"Early Sound Films of the Silent Era."
The two listings may be to the same film- they are not known to have survived.

Gibbons' Bio-Tableaux Sound Films, 1900. "Sally in Our Alley"; British film dir. Walter Gibbons, cast, The American Comedy Four.

British Phono-Cinema-Teatre Sound Films, 1901. "Sally in Our Alley"; cast, The Comedy Four.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Sally in our Alley
From: GUEST,B Zone
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 06:45 AM

I have a framed copy of Sally in our alley lyrics sang by Mr Incldon and other in Covent Gardens ballad around 1800.Please see website Antiques Uk.thanks


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Subject: RE: Origins: Sally in our Alley
From: GUEST,iyenori
Date: 31 Jan 12 - 03:02 PM

The "bed" bit seems to have embarrassed a lot of people. In "A Book of Treasured Poems," compiled and edited by William R. Bowlin (Chicago and New York: Laidlaw Brothers, 1928), p. 88, the penultimate line runs unimaginatively "O then we'll wed, O then we'll wed . . . " and another Internet music source, which I can't locate right now, offers "And then how happily we'll live."


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