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BS: Please help with good thoughts

katlaughing 06 Jul 01 - 11:48 AM
Roger in Sheffield 06 Jul 01 - 11:58 AM
Burke 06 Jul 01 - 12:00 PM
Hollowfox 06 Jul 01 - 12:05 PM
IvanB 06 Jul 01 - 12:06 PM
jeffp 06 Jul 01 - 12:06 PM
MMario 06 Jul 01 - 12:07 PM
Night Owl 06 Jul 01 - 12:16 PM
catspaw49 06 Jul 01 - 12:19 PM
Ralphie 06 Jul 01 - 12:22 PM
Kim C 06 Jul 01 - 12:38 PM
chip a 06 Jul 01 - 12:58 PM
Mrrzy 06 Jul 01 - 01:02 PM
Ebbie 06 Jul 01 - 01:05 PM
JenEllen 06 Jul 01 - 01:16 PM
Amergin 06 Jul 01 - 01:17 PM
Rick Fielding 06 Jul 01 - 01:19 PM
Lonesome EJ 06 Jul 01 - 01:34 PM
SharonA 06 Jul 01 - 01:52 PM
gnu 06 Jul 01 - 02:00 PM
GUEST,Melani 06 Jul 01 - 02:09 PM
wysiwyg 06 Jul 01 - 02:33 PM
McGrath of Harlow 06 Jul 01 - 02:35 PM
katlaughing 06 Jul 01 - 03:10 PM
SDShad 06 Jul 01 - 03:15 PM
sian, west wales 06 Jul 01 - 03:19 PM
UB Ed 06 Jul 01 - 03:31 PM
KT 06 Jul 01 - 04:03 PM
kendall 06 Jul 01 - 04:14 PM
Micca 06 Jul 01 - 04:26 PM
Mudlark 06 Jul 01 - 04:34 PM
Bardford 06 Jul 01 - 06:18 PM
Amergin 06 Jul 01 - 06:21 PM
radriano 06 Jul 01 - 06:47 PM
SINSULL 06 Jul 01 - 06:57 PM
wysiwyg 06 Jul 01 - 07:00 PM
CarolC 06 Jul 01 - 07:26 PM
Dorrie 06 Jul 01 - 07:35 PM
Little Neophyte 06 Jul 01 - 07:38 PM
Joe Offer 06 Jul 01 - 07:41 PM
Áine 06 Jul 01 - 07:46 PM
GUEST,Dancing Mom 06 Jul 01 - 11:13 PM
Seamus Kennedy 07 Jul 01 - 12:51 AM
Morticia 07 Jul 01 - 05:58 AM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 07 Jul 01 - 06:08 AM
Quincy 07 Jul 01 - 09:18 AM
Dave (the ancient mariner) 07 Jul 01 - 09:57 AM
katlaughing 07 Jul 01 - 01:55 PM
Roger in Sheffield 07 Jul 01 - 02:47 PM
clansfolk 07 Jul 01 - 02:48 PM
Amergin 07 Jul 01 - 03:37 PM
gnu 07 Jul 01 - 03:50 PM
Hollowfox 09 Jul 01 - 10:13 AM
AllisonA(Animaterra) 09 Jul 01 - 10:27 AM
Patrish(inactive) 09 Jul 01 - 11:16 AM
Noreen 09 Jul 01 - 11:24 AM
Walking Eagle 09 Jul 01 - 11:25 AM
Art Thieme 09 Jul 01 - 12:33 PM
Amergin 09 Jul 01 - 01:44 PM
katlaughing 09 Jul 01 - 02:32 PM
Hollowfox 09 Jul 01 - 03:53 PM
Peter Kasin 09 Jul 01 - 04:05 PM
Amergin 09 Jul 01 - 04:20 PM
SharonA 09 Jul 01 - 06:22 PM
wysiwyg 09 Jul 01 - 08:49 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 10 Jul 01 - 05:01 AM
alison 10 Jul 01 - 09:35 AM
dwditty 10 Jul 01 - 09:52 AM
Brian Hoskin 10 Jul 01 - 09:52 AM
katlaughing 10 Jul 01 - 05:50 PM
McGrath of Harlow 10 Jul 01 - 05:58 PM
katlaughing 10 Jul 01 - 06:25 PM
Wolfgang 11 Jul 01 - 08:18 AM
katlaughing 11 Jul 01 - 11:30 AM
Kjell 11 Jul 01 - 11:38 AM
Patrish(inactive) 11 Jul 01 - 11:48 AM
SINSULL 11 Jul 01 - 12:07 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Jul 01 - 12:29 PM
katlaughing 11 Jul 01 - 01:13 PM
SINSULL 11 Jul 01 - 01:18 PM
SharonA 11 Jul 01 - 01:20 PM
Wolfgang 11 Jul 01 - 02:21 PM
SINSULL 11 Jul 01 - 03:21 PM
SharonA 11 Jul 01 - 03:58 PM
McGrath of Harlow 11 Jul 01 - 04:22 PM
Allan C. 11 Jul 01 - 04:27 PM
katlaughing 11 Jul 01 - 07:17 PM
Little Neophyte 11 Jul 01 - 07:54 PM
catspaw49 11 Jul 01 - 10:42 PM
wysiwyg 12 Jul 01 - 11:26 AM
Biskit 12 Jul 01 - 02:54 PM

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Subject: Please help with good thoughts
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 11:48 AM

Dear Mudcatters,

It seems a bad situation, living with an angry adult child, is coming to a head. Would you please keep Rog and me and our cats and dog in your good thoughts and prayers, etc.?

I need some of that Mudcat healing stuff and would really appreciate it.

Thanks and love you,

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 11:58 AM

Not sure what you are saying.........
but I will be thinking of you anyway
Take care of yourself

Roger


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Burke
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:00 PM

Good thoughts & prayers are yours.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Hollowfox
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:05 PM

From here, too. May it all turn out well and fairly for all involved, both human and otherwise.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: IvanB
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:06 PM

Been there, done that, kat. Believe me, the best of thoughts are wafting their way from here.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: jeffp
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:06 PM

Good thoughts winging their way from the east coast. I sure know about angry children. Best of luck to all of you.

jeffp


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: MMario
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:07 PM

You got'em!


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Night Owl
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:16 PM

(((((((((((VERY BIG HUG))))))))))))!!!!!!! kat..you KNOW there's LOTS of love under the anger there...it's a big picture....hoping here you don't get yourself lost in one part of it. You've got the internal strength and love to rise above it and BREATHE....sending you positive thoughts, prayers, love, Mudcat circles, strength, oxygen and anything else I can.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:19 PM

No sense in me rambling on. You already know and of course you are always in our thoughts. luvyadearestkat

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Ralphie
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:22 PM

How do you refuse a request like that....Am playing a tune for you now.
Det Stod en Jungfrau....(to be precise)
Hugs Ralphie xx


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Kim C
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:38 PM

Good thoughts to you and all!!!!!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: chip a
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 12:58 PM

Happy people, cats and dogs and an ease of spirit for you from N.Ga.

Chip & Tish A.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Mrrzy
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 01:02 PM

Good point above - it's the underlying love that makes the anger so strong. If AAC [angry adult child] is that angry, you've got a good foundation... all you need to do is find it! (yeah, right, "all" - but you know what I mean). Best of everything, pm if you need more...


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 01:05 PM

(((((HUG))))))

"May you feel the strength inside
Of the mountain that you are...
And may you always see fog's promise
Of a bright new day..." Kathy Martin Fanning

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: JenEllen
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 01:16 PM

You know.....

~j


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Amergin
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 01:17 PM

been the angry adult child....before i started in on antidepressants (the first time) and got several other things cleared up....


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 01:19 PM

Hang tough Kat!

Rick


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 01:34 PM

Kat...just a suggestion : Have you tried slapping the crap out of him? :>}

Seriously, hang in there and that person will someday appreciate your effort. Sending good thoughts.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: SharonA
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 01:52 PM

"Adult child" should be an oxymoron but, sadly, isn't. Younger, more raging hormones are a PITA! Just make sure the AAC remains the lowest common denominator (don't sink into his/her quagmire). All kinds of good thoughts, and protective barriers against hurt and harm, coming your way from SharonA.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: gnu
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 02:00 PM

Very best of thoughts and I know things will work out for you. Your just toooo nice a person for anything else.

Sincerely,

gnu


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: GUEST,Melani
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 02:09 PM

Don't worry. Bad things usually improve eventually.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 02:33 PM

Kat,

Have been. You made a remark in a thread that caught me.

A. Been there, done that. Willing to pray, share, talk, anything, including offer temp housing if needed w/o evangelization.

B. Do you want this out on the prayer chain, and if so may I send you the FAQ so you know more about that?

C. Your own best sense about every aspect of this is paramount. Don't let anyone turn it around, and if you do get turned around, why then turn right back again. You know where north is, I know it. Point there.

D. Anything. Just say what.

E. It's not your fault. Period.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 02:35 PM

Curl up with the cats. Purring is good medicine for cats and for humans.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 03:10 PM

Thank you, everyone. Susan, thanks, but please just keep this one the Mudcat.

I'll post more when I am able; trying to rest and regroup at the moment.

I love you all,

kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: SDShad
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 03:15 PM

You got it, sister. Good thoughts, good prayers, good vibes. I'll be thinking of you.

Chris


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: sian, west wales
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 03:19 PM

"In protection, strength
In strength, understanding."

Holding close with both hands.

sian


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: UB Ed
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 03:31 PM

Listen to Susan!


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: KT
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 04:03 PM

Hey, kat, I'm with ya. Sending lots of good thoughts your way. Remember...."You WILL rise up through the dark...." Lots of love to you -- KT


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: kendall
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 04:14 PM

You have my sympathy my dear, my grand daughter is going through that stage too.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Micca
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 04:26 PM

Still in My thoughts, Kat


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Mudlark
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 04:34 PM

Dear kat

Here is a litany that I go thru whenever pressed.....sending it along with lots of good thots and wishes...

Commit yourself. Tell the truth. Trust yourself. Pain ends...and so does everything else. have patience. Be willing to be vulnerable. Don't let fear stop you. Be willing to fail. When you notice you're clinging to anything and it's causing trouble--DROP IT. No act of love is ever wasted.

Rest easy...

Nancy


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Bardford
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 06:18 PM

Karma, baby! You give a lot to this community, K/KL, I'll send some back your way. Good health to you and yours.
Bardford


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Amergin
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 06:21 PM

Hey, katdarling! just send her out here....I'll spank the snot out of her!

am keeping you in my thoughts, my dear...


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: radriano
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 06:47 PM

Kat-

Hope it all works out. Teenagers are really hard on parents - my own kid is sixteen and boy is she a handful.


Richard


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: SINSULL
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 06:57 PM

kat - you know how I feel about this and you and Roger. Hang in there and trust your instincts. Try to take care of yourself the way you take care of us.
SINS


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: wysiwyg
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:00 PM

I will notify the Mudcat members of the chain to come see your URL here, Kat.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:26 PM

Hoping for the highest good of all concerned.

Carol


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Dorrie
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:35 PM

Sorry but i know parents always try the lock you in the house thing but dont bother cos most people i know just climb out a window or something. Mum has never done it to me but she did try with aaron and holly(big brother,sister) and they've both grown out of it.Even though it pains me to say it now my brother has actually become nice since he moved away for a bit.

But remember everyone goes there at some point or other but all teenagers/young adults come through it and all absolutely adore and respect there family even if they sometimes dont show it.

sorry if that sounds dead weird coming form a 17 year old but my family(some of whom are not at all related in anyway) is very large and extremly cool but sometimes i do wish they'd go away.

love dorrie xx

Sorry if that made know sense at all but i thought i should write a young perpective for u all to see if u get me?!?!?!?!


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:38 PM

Always here for you Kat

Love Bon


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:41 PM

[sigh]
I sympathize, Kat, but....
-Joe Offer-


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Áine
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 07:46 PM

dearest mehitabel,

Why do I have the feelin' that this started with a certain four-legged 'problem'? Dare I evoke Mz. Nancy R.'s words, "Just Say NO," my darlin'. AACS (Angry Adult Child Syndrome) is a terrible thang - havin' been one myself, I know that the first step toward 'closure' is admitting that the Adult Child has a problem ;-) -- worked wonders when my mama would pat my on the head and tell me to play in the street 'tween the semitrucks, if that was what I really wanted to do . . . and it wasn't ever very long before I was back, 'poundin' on the door and wantin' a hug.

Just remember, she's learnin' from your example -- so stay strong, keep lovin' her and Rog, and never, ever, forget that chocolate, foot rubs, iced tea with raw honey and homegrown mint, and unending Calgon moments with a bubbling, heated mat in a tub longer than you are tall will always await you at Moon on the Hill . . .

Healing thoughts, hugs and snogs to my favourite kat, Áine


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: GUEST,Dancing Mom
Date: 06 Jul 01 - 11:13 PM

Warm Hug.S


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 12:51 AM

All the best, Kat.

Seamus


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Morticia
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 05:58 AM

You know you have my whole hearted love and best thoughts all the time,hon.Maybe you should think about that trip to England, you know you'd be welcomer than sunshine.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 06:08 AM

Warm, loving thoughts and hugs. Hang in there; you've evoked MudLovePower, so relax and be in the moment, knowing you are supported and loved!


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Quincy
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 09:18 AM

Love, hugs, prayers, good thoughts all heading your way.

much love, Yvonne xox


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Dave (the ancient mariner)
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 09:57 AM

Aye, (always) Dave


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: katlaughing
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 01:55 PM

Today is better. I think I have an inkling, now, of what Spaw must've felt when showered with such blessings and love from such incredible people as yourselves. I am overwhelmed and in awe. Thank you all so very much.

We have not resolved a lot, yet, except that the immediate crisis of added MAJOR stress has been lifted. My daughter had offered to take in a dog which would not have been compatible with our cats, our dog, our fence, and our gates, plus she is gone 10-12 hours of the day, so it would have been up to me to take care of it.

Through the fog of my tears, depression, and dismay, with your help, I summoned the courage to call the owners and talk to them about the facts of the situation. It is not about their dog, it is about mother/daughter issues which Rue is holding onto, instead of working through. They understood and declined her offer. She now hates me even more, if that is possible, but it couldn't have been any worse, so I cam not anymore upset that I was.

She came home last night, to her house which we pay 2/3rds of the expenses for, and packed up her clothes and left. I expect we will see her around after a few days.

She is upset at my cats and that is another long story which I really don't want to go into.

Anyway, we have an immediate need which we are focussing on and that is to MOVE, out of Wyoming, out of her house. We have some hopeful options, thanks to some of you and our son and a couple of other friends. I am blown away by all of the care and concern and generosity. Thanks to all of you. It will take the rest of my lifetime to even begin to repay your kindness.

I have taken steps to help myself. Didn't realise until the lowest point in my life, yesterday, that I am in a state of depression, so am now taking some meds for that, which friends and docs tell me works well.(Amergin, I appreciate your comments about being an AAC and being depressed. I suspect that Rue is and needs meds, too.) Here's hoping it will take effect, so I can marshall my thoughts, have some energy, and take charge like I used to and figure this thing out. If anyone hears of any cheap, low altitude places to live, prefereably where it does NOT get too hot, please holler!

Thanks, from Rog and me, both. I cried all day, yesterday. They were not all tears of sorrow and despair. A lot of them were in gratitude for the way you all have touched my heart and soul.

luvyakat


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 02:47 PM

Hey you could come and live in my house anytime
(though I would have to do some tidying first)


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: clansfolk
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 02:48 PM

The "clans" thoughts go with you

May tomorrow be the best day you ever have -
and the worst you will ever have

Take care...


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Amergin
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 03:37 PM

Katdarling...My youngest aunt was the same way also...til she started st. john's wort...(she can't afford the meds)...

With me there were other issues besides the depression....issues I had to work through from my childhood...and I eventually did with the help of some one outside the family...unfotunately, she actually needs to want the help...as do you...before it will work...I am confident though that things will work out eventually....my best wishes for you and your family, my dear friend...take care

((((((((((((((kat))))))))))))))))


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: gnu
Date: 07 Jul 01 - 03:50 PM

Kat said.... "It will take the rest of my lifetime to even begin to repay your kindness."

Nope. You already did that, Kat. As a matter of fact, you're probably still on the short end of the stick.

More thoughts and prayers on their way.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Hollowfox
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 10:13 AM

Kat, it wasn't fun or easy, but you did the right thing for the dog, and for everybody else involved as well (human and critter). I know you'll continue to decide to do what is right for each specific problem, even though that won't be fun or easy, either. May your house hunting and moving go smoothly. Mary


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 10:27 AM

Dear one, you are handling this with wisdom and grace, even if it doesn't feel like it to you. Feel free to come back East for a visit, anyway, any time.
One of the wisest things said to me recently is that our children have to work out their own way. Part of our job is to let them.
Love you!


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 11:16 AM

Thinking of you and knowing how hard it is to live in a house with angry adult children - if you come up with any good ideas on how to improve the situation, please let me know.
You are much loved and you are definitely not alone
love
Patrish xxxx


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Noreen
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 11:24 AM

Just read through this whole thread while playing my "cheering up" tune on the concertina for you all, kat. You get the best of both worlds- you get the positive feelings generated with the tune (always works for me), and you don't have to listen to it!

Much love and hugs,

Noreen


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 11:25 AM

Jes keep strummin' that dulceemore Kat. Give the adult child some good, hard summer labor to do and then see if she has the energy to step out of line. Gardening is good therapy too. Flower power lives!

Cherokee blessing to you - - O'sda Utugi - - go with good hope.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Art Thieme
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 12:33 PM

Kat, You know I'm with ya. Keep in mind what Rosalie Sorrels said: My favorite thing my son ever did was turn 18. Now, whenever he does socially unacceptable things, they come and get him instead of me !"

Really, call if you need to talk.

Art


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Amergin
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 01:44 PM

I'm wondering how you're doing, katdarling....take care.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: katlaughing
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 02:32 PM

Thank you all so very much. I am trying to take it an hour at a time. She has returned home to spend her nights, then off to work or friends'. She's not speaking to either of us, which is fine, really, as it lessens the opportunities for her to lash out.

The irons in the fire look as though they are heating up, which is good, and we do have a couple of good looking options. It looks as though things will happen, i.e. moving, by Sept. sometime, as that would be when one of the jobs Rog is working on, freelance, would be ready for him and a couple of other things might be ready by then, too.

It's difficult to think clearly, but we are trying to decide if we go to new england where a lot of Mudcatters and our grandbabies are; to the coast of oregon where there are a few Mudcatters and a best friend, and closer than New England to my family; or, if we even go to Utah for a couple of years to be nearby my dad, as he is 84 and slowing down and still has many, many stories to tell me. It would not be a really easy place for me to live, but I think I could do it for him and, my sister, bet, would be closer then, too.

I hope the zoloft helps me to clear thinking, soon. You are all so very, very kind. I know I've used up the equivalent of a BIG box of tissues with happy, grateful tears. Thank you all so very, very much. I feel so blessed and fortunate.

luvyakat


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Hollowfox
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 03:53 PM

Remember, good will come of whichever place you decide to move.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 04:05 PM

Good thoughts and support coming to you from the West coast, Kat.

-chanteyranger


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Amergin
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 04:20 PM

We can always use more Catters here, katdarling....but go wherever you feel you must...it will be the right choice...


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: SharonA
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 06:22 PM

My dad's in his upper 80's and his memory winks in and out... and so do his stories... Whether you go to live near your dad or not, my humble advice is that you be near him anyway (by phone, fax, internet, whatever): talk to him and find those stories of his before they're lost to you.

Thank you for considering the needs of all the animals as well as all the humans! Your daughter may not see that now, but hopefully she will in time to make responsible decisions about animals when she's making them on her own.

Breathe from the diaphragm, drink in some of that Wyoming landscape, and take heart knowing we're all pulling for you!

SharonA


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: wysiwyg
Date: 09 Jul 01 - 08:49 PM

Altitude here is about 2,000 I think. And I meant my offer. Life here is very affordable... people are wonderful... it's pretty... and often cool and dry. We have a number of empty-ish bedrooms and a real cheap rent with which we do not need help.

I know you will do what makes the most sense. Those tears have incredible power. Let your poor head sort out for a bit and keep following your heart. Hearts are very, very smart.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 05:01 AM

I dont really know what to say, Im never any good at giving advice, so just take care and I really hope it all works out for you.john


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: alison
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 09:35 AM

prayers, and good thoughts headed your way kat.........

love

alison


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: dwditty
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 09:52 AM

Kat,
Just saw this thread. My heart and prayers go out to all of you. I usually rolled my eyes when my Dad would say, "There's a piece of gold in every pile of shit." In the end, though, he was usually right. One day, you will look back and see all this in a positive light. I, too, have had my share of dealings with adult children. In the meantime, I think I'll buy some Kimberly-Clark (Kleenex) stock. Oh how I wish you could get through without pain. Get ready,though, here come some more good thoughts.

Much love,

dw


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 09:52 AM

Lots of love Kat

Brian


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 05:50 PM

Thank you all so much. I know I keep saying that, but just coming here and reading your kind words means so much to me and helps tremendously. I am so grateful. If you all don't already have angel wings, you certainly will after this!

I hope you are right, dw. I know that has been true with my two older children, but this one is so different and harsh. She's like a bull terrier, never turns loose and, as she has audio photographic memory, she never forgets anything she hears and can quote it back verbatim.

When I need to forget her hurtful ways and words, I come to Mudcat and read your words, all of you. Thank you...

luvyakat


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 05:58 PM

She's like a bull terrier, never turns loose and, as she has audio photographic memory, she never forgets anything she hears and can quote it back verbatim.

You know, those could be really handy qualities, given the right time and place and setting and the right adversary...


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Jul 01 - 06:25 PM

LOL, you're right, McGrath, it stood her in good stead in school and now, in her job as a collections (past-due accounts) agent. Trouble is, I think the job is bringing out some of the worst of those qualities; the less I see or hear of it, the better.:-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 08:18 AM

Maybe I should better stay out of 'thoughts' threads as I usually do, but I saw this for a couple of days and got curious.

Dear kat, my thoughts go to you and your daughter and to the difficulties you have with each other. The idea to move soon seems to be very good.

But now I'm going to dissent with the bulk of the posts, for I'm going to try to see the problem from the side of your daughter. Half of my friends hate me for that ("when I need support I don't want you to try to see the other side"), the other half are grateful, after some time.

I picture your daughter to be in her late twenties or even thirties. When my mother wanted to matronise me, she used the word 'child' with all its connotations (little, stubborn, needs help, doesn't know the world yet,...) to describe me. It could drive me mad but when I told her she only said: "You'll always be my child, how old you may get."

You're so sensible with language usually, but here you say 'adult child' instead of the completely neutral 'adult daughter'. I really wondered that everybody else seemed to use this expression too. If you communicate with your daughter in the way you tell about her, I can understand a bit of her anger.

You live in her house, you say. If a parent living in my house would want to determine alone which pets are allowed and which aren't there'd be a kind of row.

I can't tell from what you wrote whether your daughter had offered to take the dog for good or just for a short period of time. Of course she can't expect you to care for the dog in any respect without your consent prior to any fact, but perhaps she had some ideas how that could be done without bothering you.

You write that you phoned to the people with the dog. You phoned on a day when your daughter was off to work (that's my understanding from the few lines about it). Does this mean you did phone without her consent or even without her knowing you would do that? Possible, from what you have written. If my mother would phone behind my back with friends or aquaintances of me in order to interfere with my communication with them, I'd expect her to apologise before I spoke to her again.

I might see a few things wrong due to a lack of information, but looking at it at a certain angle I have some understanding for your daughter's anger. I'd love to read about it from her point of view, but that will not be I guess.

Even in the few lines you have written I see not only her but also your contributions to the mess.

Despite that, I have a deep compassion for what you go through. A daughter that would not want to talk to me would darken my whole life. However, please understand that my compassion also goes to your daughter.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 11:30 AM

Ah, Wolfgang, must you always temper your support with a backhanded slap? I am not even going to bother to try explaining it anymore. My daughter is more like me than anyone could ever imagine and I do understand her quite well and I also have a great deal of compassion for her.

If you reread this, without your kat-kritical-kap on, you will see that she is not yet 24, that I knew the owners and that I'd told her I would call them. What she was proposing was not fair to the dog, let alone the rest of us. Please do not turn this into one of your holier-than-thou critical debates.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Kjell
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 11:38 AM

I am not able to give you advice or even practical help on this issue with your daughter. I will tell you that I too have had problem with my mother, it was only when I had grown that I knew it was my problem and not hers. Perhaps she needs to grow. I send you good thoughts
Kjell


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 11:48 AM

Hi Kat, still thinking about you.......
Tonight about 9 ish at the Jug a whole roomfull of good thoughts n there way to you
Patrish xxx


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 12:07 PM

kat - my nephew (after the cat Caesarean fiasco) said "I can never pay you back for all you've done for me. Not even for before this". Makes it all worth while. I of course jumped on the opportunity and made him promise to take ALL my cats if I die. Poor Chris! Ed will be peeing all over his things and he won't be able to put him out. But that's only if I die soon.
Rue will appreciate you someday. Even my son, now 26, says that I was a good mom. Then he tries to get me to buy cigarettes and Pepsi.
Wolfgang is a little heavy handed with the devil's advocate thing. But do try to see it from her point of view. We mothers are by definition pains in the ass. My son tactfully avoids arguing with me by calling on a pay phone and not having change to refill the slot. So by the time we get to my opinion on his whatever, Ma Bell cuts us off. Very clever of him actually.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 12:29 PM

Wolfgang is often pretty insightful, I've noticed before. It's not a question of criticicism as I read it, but trying imaginatively to get into someone elses head.

"One too many mornings and a thousand miles away...you are right from your side and I am right from mine" It's amazing how Bob Dylan always come through with a quote for just about any situation.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 01:13 PM

Okay, right now, I can give you her point of view, verbatim: I am a bitch, had no right to call the dog's owners, and I am not to speak to her.

She will be 24 on Bastille Day. I called her an adult child because she is. She has been slamming doors, hanging up phones, glaring, etc. acting like a spoiled child. I have NOT, however, called her that to her face.

She also said a lot of very vicious things which I know she will someday regret; things that no one should have to listen to; she has been a bully, but I am not accepting that, anymore.

Her dad and I talked about this dog with her, at her request. We both expressed our misgivings and in fact asked her not to bring him over. When we moved in with her, she knew we had our animals, whom she'd grown up with and that any more would really be extremely stressful. We helped her buy this house and we pay 2/3rds of all expenses. That was our agreement with her. She had expected us to be here for at least a year, in order to help her out (she's been paying off credit cards) and so that we could save a bit.

I knew the dog's owners before this and had told her I was going to call them to give them the facts of the living situation she would be bringing their dog into, i.e. our dog who wants to kill other dogs, seven cats, 3 adults and HUGE STRESS for all, without adding another critter, of any kind, to a house which is barely over 900 square feet, added to a yard with no shade and two gates which that dog could easily open and a fence he could have jumped, both of which he has done to his owners' gates and fence.

He also got into a tussle with his own dog-mate and drew blood, and chases squirrels, which cats would look quite similar to to a dog which is not very smart. I know this dog. I was the one who found him one night when he got out and ran away. I've also gone over to feed him and let him out when my daughter was petsitting and was at work and could not do it herself. She wanted to keep him permamently.

She was going to make him stay in her room all day, except for coming home at noon to let him out. She hasn't come home at noon for months. She is gone from 830a til usually 9 or 10p everyday. She gave away her turtle and fish because she never took care of them.

I did what I knew was best for our hosuehold and what I thought was right for the other dog. I do not regret it.

Sins, thanks, I know someday she will understand. My son and my older daughter and I have all had those talks about how wise mom really was, now that they look back on it.

Patrish, I'd give anything to be at the Jug, tonight. Thanks so much.

Thanks, kjell, I appreciate your honesty.

Wolfgang, thanks for your compassion, for both of us. We will soon be gone from her house and living a good distance away, so I am sure she will sort things out and be a lot happier. The stress level will go down for all of us and that is good.

The whole thing has been very exhausting and numbing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 01:18 PM

kat,
I repeat - be as kind to yourself as you are to all of us. Lots of love...SINS


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 01:20 PM

"My daughter is more like me than anyone could ever imagine" Oooh, kat, that's scary. If I met my younger self coming the other way, I'm sure there'd be sparks flyin'!! And if I had RAISED my younger self... *shudder*

So, is your daughter as good at remembering the nasty words she says to others as she is at regurgitating what others say to her? If so, I'm amazed. Most of us are lots better at seeing ourselves as the injured party rather than the injurious party!

Hang in there and just keep lovin' that girl fiercely; from what you said in another thread, you both have been through some terrible abuse and survived, so you KNOW you're both survivors!!!

SharonA


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Wolfgang
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 02:21 PM

kat,

thanks for the additional information.

However, I'm surprised that you write this to me:
If you reread this, without your kat-kritical-kap on, you will see that she is not yet 24, that I knew the owners and that I'd told her I would call them

None of these informations were in your posts in this thread (I did not read all of the other posts, but I doubt that these informations were in posts by others). Had they been in your posts my post would have been different. Can it be that you mix up what you have written in PMs to others and what you have written in this thread? I object to your imputation that I did not read your posts with care.

Kat, I'm a parent and a child and I try to understand both parts and often I find fault in both (except of course, when I happen to be one part than it is only the other part that is wrong; at least until a good friend comes and challenges my point of view). Others may just virtually hug you and support you, that's fine and needed, but my way is different. If my way is slapping for you, I regret this but what arrives as slapping has not left my pen as that.

You do not need to explicitely call your daughter 'child' when she listens to make her feel that you think she still is one. One of the bigger mistakes parents among my friends make with their young adult sons and daughters is to let them feel which way ever that what they think, plan, want or do is still childlike and not well considered and they'd better listen to their parents. That is counterproductive even if it is true (and in my experience more often than not it is true). There is only one good remedy in these situations: distance. And I'm glad for all of you that you'll soon have this remedy.

Wolfgang


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: SINSULL
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 03:21 PM

Wolfgang - kat is going through a particularly rough patch at the moment. She has asked for kind thoughts. Though you may be logical, politically correct, and even right, your "different way" is neither appropriate nor helpful here.
This is an open forum. And you do have a right to air your opinions. But a little kindness and understanding would not be amiss given the circumstances.
Mary


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: SharonA
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 03:58 PM

Hear, hear, SINSULL!

Wolfgang, it's true that kat didn't include some details she thought she had, but she DID say she's under a lot of stress right now AND that she's taking medication, so it's understandable that she forgot she hadn't told more of the story than she had before your post.

I can see where your conjectures about some of the untold details would set her off. You said, "Even in the few lines you have written I see not only her but also your contributions to the mess"... and yet the "contributions" you cited were based on your conjecture and theorizing, not on all the facts. That would anger me, too. (Y'know what they say: a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.)

Even now we don't even know the entirety of the story from kat's point of view, much less Rue's, so we really can't say what caused the problem, or what the best solution would be.

Frankly, it scares me that you express "glad"-ness that she finds she and her husband have to move away from her daughter. It may be necessary, but nonetheless it is and will be horribly, wrenchingly painful; I'd never call it a "good remedy".

SharonA


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 04:22 PM

Seemed kind to me. Remember, different countries and cultures express these things in different ways. The Atlantic is still pretty wide.

But it definitely came across to me as intended as kind and supportive, and not any kind of attack.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Allan C.
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 04:27 PM

Many of us who have spoken directly with kat are, perhaps, more fully aware of the degree of upheaval she is experiencing just now. I know that many of you might feel compelled to address the issues at hand. I assure you that this is not the time. In general what kat is needing is respite, support, and friendship. Specifically, she needs that portion of friendship that has been expressed by many above in their good wishes and willingness to listen without making judgements.


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 07:17 PM

Thanks, Allan, for your eloquence. Thanks, also to Sinsull and Sharon, for their compassion and support, as well as to everyone else.

Things are progressing: she hollered "Bye" this morning as she left for work. I was the only other person in the house, so I assume she was saying it to me. I reciprocated.

Right now, the best thing that could happen is for Roger and me to reach some clarity of vision, to know where we should go and what to do when we get there. When his freelance irons in the fire heat up more, it will help with this.

Thank you, very much,

luvyakat


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Little Neophyte
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 07:54 PM

Listen to SINSULL Baby, shes got it right Kat. You are doing amazingly well considering the load you have to deal with. Give yourself some credit kiddo and some slack too!
Like SINSULL wisely says give yourself some of that kindness and acceptance you endlessly offer others.

Love Miss BonAmi


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: catspaw49
Date: 11 Jul 01 - 10:42 PM

Still looking for the outcome to come your way.......and I know it will. Other options and different times...............Sure as hell doesn't help you now though does it. You know you have the support and the best thoughts from all of us.........even Ol' Wolfgang.

McGrath made an interesting point.......the Atlantic is truly a broad gap at times and we all know enough of Wolfgang to know that he does have heart, but his mind also processes differently than mine (and he's overjoyed I'm sure) but he does have friendship and compassion in his own way. I'm not defending him here mind you, but McGrath's comment is very true. As an import mechanic I was always amazed at the German thought process. When I realized that one Mercedes engine had SEVEN pieces to the thermostat housing (most cars have one), I began to have some appreciation for the differences in our way of thinking!(:<))

Hang in kat.......Keep working the options and be ready when the times are right, as they will be. Luvyadarlinkat........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: wysiwyg
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 11:26 AM

YOU GO GIRL. Nothing you have done needs defense, and you don't need anyone's agreement, here or anywhere, to know what you know. YOU GO GIRL. (Whether that means going straight to bed to chill out, going forward in your plans, or kicking some butt!)

Wherever YOU are "going," YOU GO GIRL!

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Please help with good thoughts
From: Biskit
Date: 12 Jul 01 - 02:54 PM

WOW! and I thought our house got tedious sometimes!!! Good luck Kat! Hopefully you and your daughter will be able to forgive and forget. Lotsa Love comin' your direction from down around my direction! Love -Biskit-


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