Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: GUEST,Arnold
Date: 20 Jul 19 - 05:57 AM

Hi Jeri, hi Gerry,
thank you for your help!

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 07:29 AM

What I hear is, There's no use any more/For those linen mills, it seems/But the sound of the looms/She still haunts my dreams.

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: Jeri
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 07:27 AM

Thanks, Arnold. This is what I hear:

There's no use any more
For those linen mills, it seems
But the sound of the looms
She still haunts my dreams.

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: GUEST,Arnold
Date: 17 Jul 19 - 03:34 AM

Hi Jeri,
thank you for your answer. You can find the song on youtube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZPv-qMQVC8&t=2044s
I hope you can undesrtand the verse.

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Jul 19 - 12:43 PM

Got a link to a video? I found a version by Brier Folk, but there isn't any verse like the one you asked about.

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: GUEST,Arnold
Date: 16 Jul 19 - 11:19 AM

Brier has put an extra verse in this song, but I casnnot understand the first line:
There's no you? sell? any more
Those linen mill had seen
But the sound of the looms
She still hands my dreams.
Can anyone help? Thank you.

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 22 Sep 16 - 02:00 PM

Nice version here from Karen Matheson and Mary Chapin Carpenter on Transatlantic Sessions in 2013
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQxnLudcB8s

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 16 - 11:08 AM

I have a 1982 Furey's album with this song Listed as Belfast Mill/Oregon Mill and credited to Khan and Furey.

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: Bev and Jerry
Date: 06 Jun 14 - 01:06 AM

In the early 1990s we were driving from North Carolina to Atlanta and Bev was looking at the map.

She said, "Hey, there's Aragon, Georgia and it's not far out of the way. Let's stop and see the mill."

Jerry said, "How will we find the mill?"

Bev replied, "What's the first verse of the song?"

Jerry said (sheepishly), "Oh!"

We have a picture of the mill taken from a distance (no zoom lens) and it says "Aragon". The textile mill opened in 1898 and closed in 1970. It was reopened in 1972 and converted to a carpet mill in 1990. It closed for good in 1994 and burned to the ground in 2002.

Aragon was a company town meaning that the company owned all the houses and stores and supplied the water and electricity as well. In fact, one could not live in the town unless at least one member of your household worked at the mill. So, when it closed it was a real disaster for those living there.

Bev and Jerry

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: Janie
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 11:14 PM

Hi Roger. Did you by chance see the fine play/musical "Millworker" produced and performed, at least originally, by staff, students and community musicians and actors through Central Carolina Community College? Written by Ellen Bland and Drew Lasater. It won significant critical acclaim, and Aragon Mill was one of the songs incorporated into the script.

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: GUEST,Roger
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 06:58 PM

Yes, as Si says, there was an Aragon Mill, and it really did have a tall red brick smokestack with Aragon (or maybe Aragon Mill or Mills) spelled out in white letters.

My father was a supervisor there in the late 40's. When I was born in Rome in 1950, we lived just down the road in Rockmart, before moving to Aragon. Years later, in 1963, we moved back to northern Georgia and lived nearby in Cedartown, where he ran another mill. I remember us visiting old friends of my parents in Aragon and seeing the smokestack from their porch.

As you've probably heard, the locals pronounce the name Air uh' gun, not Air a gahn'. At least my parents always did. And yes, a lot of mills where I grew up did close and were eventually burned or torn down, in Cordova, Whitney, Chattahoochee, and elsewhere.

I went later to school in North Carolina and lived in Chapel Hill, which was where I heard the Red Clay Ramblers doing the song at the Cat's Cradle in the late 70's.

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: Thompson
Date: 16 Dec 13 - 04:58 AM

Came looking for information on Si Kahn, having heard him on an independent radio station in Ireland yesterday, and found this little nest of spite. Heavens!
It put me in mind of Padraic Colum boasting to me when I was a child that some of his poems and songs were widely regarded as 'traditional'. He saw it as an honour.

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 09:58 AM

..., are now ripping off the Yanks....

In this case - with the full approval of the Yank! I met Si a couple of years ago and he told me beamingly that he had recently had a request from someone in Cork, looking to make another local adaptation. He was delighted to see the song go feral.

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: GUEST,sapper sans cookie
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 09:00 AM

I love the parodies!
However, it looks like the Irish, not being content to misappropriate so many English, Scottish and Welsh songs, are now ripping off the Yanks!!

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: GUEST,Michael Stadler
Date: 31 Aug 13 - 01:56 PM

I wrote a parody of Aragon Mill in 1980, inspired by a dream that KPFA-FM host Mary Tilson told me she'd had. (http://www.kpfa.org/americas-back-40) It was in Michigan's Upper Peninsula during a bad economic period and retail was feeling the pain of the mining industry's decline.
I told Si years later that I'd written Aragon Mall. He said he'd heard of it for years and that many had said they'd get him the lyrics, but that never happened. He said he and his brother-in-law had expanded the concept to the Aragon Theme Park. Anyway, here is my version:
------
        Mary Tilson (title)-Michael Stadler 1980 (Ripped from Si Kahn)
At the West edge of town   
Where the hills get sorta small
There's a complex that sprawls
Known as Aragon Mall.
But there's no clothes at all
Coming off of the racks
For the Mall has shut down   
And it ain't coming back.

[ CHORUS ]
All the Muzak I hear
Is the wind in the vents
For the stores have pulled out.
Off to Florida they went.

Now there's no kids at all   
In the Arcade shooting skeet.
They're molesting old men &
Young women in the street.

[ CHORUS ]

Now, too old is my shirt
And too old is my tie,
And there's no place to buy
For my Visa & I.
For the Mall has shut down.
It was the one stop spot to shop.
Tell me where will I shop.
Tell me where will I shop.

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 07:38 PM

Recording someone else's song and NOT creditting is theft , plain and simple !

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 07:25 PM

Well you just never know who may drop into Mudcat! It's a great song Si! Sadly the same story can be told about so many places!

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: bradfordian
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 07:13 PM

My antivirus came up with 3 or 4 trojans that it blocked. But on a second visit (trusting in my AVG) to comfirm the initial flags, there were no reports. So maybe it was just an aberation.

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 07:01 PM

bradfordian, http://www.oldtimeherald.org/? What kind of problems? I've never seen problems with it. Have you contacted them? [e-mail] or [e-mail]

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 06:47 PM

Thanks for dropping by, Si. I've learned a lot from your songs - and NOW I know where Aragon is. It surprised me, because I figured Georgia to be a place where the old mills moved to, after the New England mills closed to spite the unions.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: bradfordian
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 05:29 PM

I just wennt to THe Old Time Music Herald Website and its FULL of viruses. B E W A R E!!!!!

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: GUEST,Si Kahn
Date: 13 Jan 11 - 04:58 PM

Hi, Folks, and thanks for all the wonderful comments about my song "Aragon Mill." It is a true song, and the mill in question was in the town of Aragon, Georgia, northwest of Atlanta close to the Alabama-Georgia border. I was at the time working with the United Mine Workers of America (UMWA), the great coal miners' union, but living in North Georgia and commuting to the Kentucky coalfields. I was home on break some time in the spring of 1972 when I got a phone call from Scott Hoyman, the Southern Regional Director for the Textile Workers' Union of America. Scott had just heard about the Aragon Mill closing, didn't have an organizer available to send there and, because I lived within a few hours' drive, asked if I could go over there to hold the fort until he could get someone up there.

There's a lot more to the story. Pete Peterson tells it well in the current issue of The Old Time Music Herald -- check it out.

All the best, Si

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 05:04 PM

I think the Aragon in question is in Georgia (southern US, not central Asia). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aragon,_Georgia

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 08 Feb 10 - 08:37 AM

I imagine Si Kahn flattered and pleased at the various adaptations of his song (at least as long as he gets credit for the original)

We still don't have the answer, where was Aragon Mill situated?

Subject: ADD Version: Aragon Mill (Si Kahn)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Feb 10 - 06:27 PM

I really like what you've done with the song, Seamus. Other "Belfast Mill" versions just change "Aragon" to "Belfast" an alter verses a little bit, but you've really made it your own. This is how I sing it, which is the Bok, Muir, and Trickett version (except that I think it makes more sense to combine the first two verses):

ARAGON MILL
(Si Kahn)

CHORUS
    And the only tune I hear Is the sound of the wind,
    As it blows through the town, Weave and spin, weave and spin.

At the east end of town, at the foot of the hill.
Stands a chimney so tall that says "Aragon Mill." [chorus?]
But there's no smoke at all coming out of the stack.
The mill has shut down and it ain't a-coming back.
CHORUS

Well, I'm too old to work, and I'm too young to die.
Tell me where will we go, my old gal and I?
CHORUS

There's no children at all in the narrow, empty street.
The mill has closed down; it's so quiet I can't sleep.
CHORUS

Yes, the mill has shut down; it's the only life I know;
Tell me, where will I go; Tell me, where will I go?
CHORUS (twice)


Copyright Joe Hill Music (1974)
From Bok, Muir, & Trickett, The First Fifteen Years

Subject: RE: Origins: Belfast Mill (Aragon Mill, by Si Kahn)
From: mousethief
Date: 05 Feb 10 - 06:26 PM

The only version I know is the Bok/Trickett/Muir, but I love it, especially with Gordon's rumbling bass on the choruses and Trickett's reedy voice on the verses. Mmmm.

O..O
=o=

Subject: ADD Version: Belfast Mills (Aragon Mill)
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 05 Feb 10 - 06:06 PM

Since my grandmother and her sisters worked in the spinning mills in Belfast in the early 20th century, I used Si Kahn's song as a basis, and added a couple of extra verses, which Si himself acknowledged in the Dec./Jan. edition of Dirty Linen.
I got the idea from my grandmother who old me about all the various jobs the women (and men) did in the mills.
But Si wrote a truly brilliant song to begin with.

BELFAST MILLS (Aragon Mill)
(SI KAHN/Copyright Mgt., addt'l verses S. KENNEDY)

At the east end of our town, at the foot of the hill,
There's a chimney so tall that reads "Belfast Mill"
But there's no smoke at all coming out of the stack,
For the mill has closed down, and it's never coming back.

Belfast is a city built on factory and mill,
Though her heart has been broken, she's a mill-town still.
The Catholic, the Protestant, we all could work the flax,
And we clothed the world in linen from beneath those old smoke stacks.

CHORUS:
And the only tune I hear is the sound of the wind,
As she moans through the town, "weave and spin, weave and spin."

Clonard, Rosses', Greeveses', the great mills are no more,
The Pound and the Milewater, have shut down and closed their doors;
There are no children playing in the wee, dark narrow streets,
Now the mills have all closed, it's so quiet I can't sleep.

I was a hackler in Campbell's, 'twas the only job I know,
So what will I do now, tell me where will I go.
I'm too old to learn new work, but I'm too young to die,
So we'll just live off our pensions, my dear old girl and I.

CHORUS:

Now the doffers are all gone, no weavers at their looms,
The singing of the spinners is an echo from a tomb;
No more laughing women going home with their friends,
No more we'll hear the doffing mistress cry "lay up your ends!"

Hacklers, tenters, band-tiers -- workers from the past,
Warpers, winders, reelers, spreaders, nothing ever lasts.
Work is here for a day or two, then the next day it is gone,
So you do your job as best you can, and the world goes on and on.

CHORUS:

Subject: ADD Version: Aragon Mill (Si Kahn)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 05 Feb 10 - 04:19 PM

This song has a number of variations, most notably "Belfast Mill." Si Kahn himself has changed this song significantly over the years. Except for a few differences in wording (which apparently come from the Bok Muir Trickett recording), the version in the Digital Tradition is very similar to Si Kahn's recording of the song on his New Wood album.



Here's what's in the Digital Tradition:

ARAGON MILL
(Si Kahn)

Chorus: And the only tune I hear,
       Is the sound of the wind,
       As it blows through the town,
       Weave and spin, weave and spin

1. At the east end of town, at the foot of the hill
   Stands a chimney so tall that says "Aragon Mill."
   But there's no smoke at all coming out of the stack.
   The mill has shut down and it ain't a-coming back.

2. Well, I'm too old to work, and I'm too young to die.
   Tell me, where shall we go, My old gal and I?
   There's no children at all in the narrow empty street.
   The mill has closed down; it's so quiet I can't sleep.

3. Yes, the mill has shut down; it's the only life I know
   Tell me, where will I go, Tell me, where will I go?
   And the only tune I hear, is the sound of the wind
   As it blows through the town,
   Weave and spin, weave and spin.

Copyright Joe Hill Music
@mill @work @aging @industry
recorded by Bok Trickett and Muir on Water over Stone
filename[ ARAGONML
TUNE FILE: ARAGONML
CLICK TO PLAY
DC

---

Here's my transcription from Si Kahn's In My Heart: Live in Holland album. Si Kahn sings these same lyrics in the early New Wood recording, but he sings four-line verses in that recording.

ARAGON MILL
(Si Kahn)

At the east end of town, at the foot of the hill
There's a chimney so tall that says "Aragon Mill."

CHORUS
    And the only tune I hear Is the sound of the wind,
    As it blows through the town, Weave and spin, weave and spin.

But there's no smoke at all coming out of the stack.
For the mill has pulled out and it ain't coming back.
CHORUS

Now I'm too old to change, and I'm too young to die.
And there's no place to go, For my old man and I.
CHORUS

There's no children at all in the narrow, empty streets.
Now the looms have all gone; it's so quiet I can't sleep.
CHORUS

Now the mill has shut down; it's the only life I know;
Tell me, where will I go; Tell me, where will I go?
CHORUS


Copyright Joe Hill Music (1974)

This song is often sung in Europe as "Belfast Mill." @mill @work @aging @industry
recorded by Bok Trickett and Muir on Water over Stone
filename[ ARAGONML
TUNE FILE: ARAGONML
CLICK TO PLAY

DC

With four-line verses, Si Kahn's original recording is 2:12 minutes; and his later recording with two-line verses is 3:49. The Bok, Muir, and Trickett recording is 4:00; and Dolores Keane seems to have the longest recording at 5:09. I suppose others may think differently, but this is the kind of song I wish could last forever. I never get tired of it.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Origins: Origins of 'Belfast Mill'?
From: BlueSage
Date: 11 Sep 06 - 12:13 AM

I guess what I'm really asking is this:

Is Finbar Fury taking credit for writing this song, either outright or by not correcting others (and there are many) who have mistakenly attributed this song to him?

Mike Iverson

Subject: RE: Origins: Origins of 'Belfast Mill'?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 03:00 PM

I am a great beleiver in 'crediting ones source' with regard to material - IF traditional , a nod to where you got it is polite , and if the composer / writer is known , they ought to be acknowledged . I dont have access to any Furies recording of Belfast Mill - Do they at least credit Mr Kahn in the sleeve notes ?

Subject: RE: Origins: Origins of 'Belfast Mill'?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 02:19 PM

The Furey's on-stage introductions to songs and their backgrounds were often hilarious - and had little to do with reality!

Regards

Subject: RE: Origins: Origins of 'Belfast Mill'?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 08:06 AM

I'm not sure I would want each and every singer to credit each and every song whilst on stage. Roy Bailey who does/did a lot of Si Kahn's stuff sometimes credits him and sometimes not.

Mind I do object to stuff referred to as "traditional" when it isn't.

But then what is traditional?

Don't answer that - we will be here forever!!

Subject: RE: Origins: Origins of 'Belfast Mill'?
From: Jeri
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 07:53 AM

I once heard an interview with Si Kahn in which he talked about how he came to write it. True story, and the mill closed down when the work was moved off-shore - to China, I believe.

As to why the song sometimes goes un-credited, it just sounds like a traditional song. Plus, if you're looking for copyright information on the wrong title, it makes finding the author a bit difficult. The thing that helps is that a lot of people seem to have heard about the derivation of 'Belfast Mill'.

Subject: RE: Origins: Origins of 'Belfast Mill'?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 05:44 AM

beg pardon that should say Aragon Mill - see here:

@displaysong.cfm?SongID=318

Subject: RE: Origins: Origins of 'Belfast Mill'?
From: Mr Happy
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 05:36 AM

read somewhere this song's derived from another called 'Oregon Mill'

Subject: Origins: 'Belfast Mill'?
From: BlueSage
Date: 10 Sep 06 - 03:50 AM

Has anyone heard Finbar Fury ever credit Si Kahn as the author of "Belfast Mill" (really 'Aragon Mill') on stage? And if not, why do you suppose he has not?

Mike Iverson

Subject: RE: Belfast Mill, aka Aragon Mill
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 21 Jul 04 - 10:59 AM

Joe, thanks for the parody. It is well written and very apt. As for Dry Branch Fire Squad, I am no expert, but I've seen them perform and have a couple of CDs. They do consider themselves bluegrass and instrumentally they are typically bluegrass. However, when they sing, that is a different matter. The repertoire and style are not typically bluegrass and far more to my personal liking. They do songs such as Jesus on the Mainline, Rain & Snow, and Love Has Brought Me Dispair.   I particularly like their version of Aragon Mill. In addition, Ron Thomason, the leader of the group and emcee provides a running commentary on events and situations that would make you wish for more talk and less music if they were not so good at the music.   If one were to visit the Dry Branch website you would find "thought impermeable" hats and Dry Branch security system pocket knives and more.

Subject: RE: Belfast Mill, aka Aragon Mill
From: Herga Kitty
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 09:32 PM

In the east end of town, we think it no sin
To go to the store and pay by chip and pin

(Chip and pin, where you use your card to pay, and key in your pin number instead of signing a till receipt, is just now being introduced in the UK.)

Kitty

Subject: RE: Belfast Mill, aka Aragon Mill
From: Celtaddict
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 05:03 PM

Love it, Joe!!
I am told (and do not recall who told the story; an Irish-American singer who sings it "Aragon") that some years ago Si Kahn's son was in Ireland, and with a companion passed a pub where "Belfast Mill" was being sung; he commented on it and his companion reportedly told him, "That's Belfast Mill, a traditional song in this part of Ireland."
I don't know if the story is so, but there is no doubt that Si's song has truly become traditional.

Subject: ADD Parody: Aragon Mall
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Jul 04 - 03:06 PM

My apologies to Si Kahn, but I feel it is my duty to report this parody. Somebody brought it to our song circle, but I can't recall if they got anybody to sing it. Interesting to see lyrics that speak nostalgically about Barnes & Noble and Borders. It seems only yesterday that John McCutcheon recorded They're Closing the Bookstore Down, but it was 1999.
These lyrics and other parodies are available at www.laborchorus.org.

Aragon Mall

On the east end of town
In the heart of the sprawl
Where the traffic slows down
Stands the Aragon Mall

Bat there's no one at all
In the stores made of brick
For we all shop at home
Point & click, point & click

There's no teens anymore
Hanging out at the Gap
Now the stores that they haunt
Can fit right in their laps

And the only sound I hear
Makes me tired & sick
It's the children upstairs
Point & click, point & click

Now the mall has shut down
It's the life I used to know
Tell me where shall I go?
Tell me where shall I go?

Barnies & Noble has closed
And our Borders is still
Now my on-line account
Pays my Amazon bill

Yes, I'm too bored to move
And I'm too broke to die
And the screens of my life
Scroll on by, scroll on by

And the only sound I hear
Makes me tired & sick
It's my children upstairs
Point & click, point & click
Point & click, point & click

Music: 'Aragon Mill,' by Si Kahn
New words: Phil Hoose, with help from Lisa Derman, Shoshana Hoose, & Charlie King

Subject: RE: Belfast Mill
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Jan 98 - 01:38 PM

Is there, or was there, a real Aragon Mill? It's a great song that tells the story of hundreds of mills that shut down and threw thousands out of work - but is there one particular mill Si Kahn was referring to?
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Belfast Mill
From: Bruce O.
Date: 03 Jan 98 - 12:44 PM

Ain't tradition grand. It's already an Irish song, like "The Unicorn"! All we need to make it ancient is to translate the title into Gaelic, a popular pastime.

"Moll Roe" was refered to under that title only for over a hundred years (from 1749), and now there are those who call it "Moll Rua".

Subject: RE: Belfast Mill
From: dicj greenhaus
Date: 03 Jan 98 - 12:33 PM

Calling it Belfast Mill may make it feel at home to our Irish friends, but it sort of misses an important point: A mill closure in a one-employer town is a lot more significant to the townfolk than theclosing of any one industry in Belfast.

Subject: RE: Belfast Mill
From: Bruce O.
Date: 03 Jan 98 - 11:33 AM

This is Si Kahn's "Aragon Mill". It's in DT.

Subject: Belfast Mill
From:
Date: 03 Jan 98 - 06:55 AM

Would anyone have the lyrics for the Irish folk song called Belfast Mill?

At the east end of town at the foot of the hill stands a chimney so tall it's called Belfast mill and there's no smoke at all coming out of the stack for the mill has shut down and its never coming back......