Pitch pipe vs electronic tuner

Subject: RE: Pitch pipe vs electronic tuner
From: Mark Clark
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 01:49 PM

M.Ted is spot on as usual. There is no more useful or reliable tuner than an A440 tuning fork. Hold it near the ball end, strike the tines on your knee and place the ball end on or near the bridge. In a noisy room, place an ear on the side of the guitar. For fiddles, hold the ball end of the fork between your teeth. This will let you bow the A string while hearing the fork and you'll have a hand free for tuning.

Tuning the A string to a fork and then tuning the rest of the instrument relative to that has the potential to give you a better tunning than any other method, technology notwithstanding.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Pitch pipe vs electronic tuner
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 04:06 PM

I would definitely agree that anyone who plays an instrument should learn to tune to a single pitch standard, and tuning forks are much more stable than most "reed" pitchpipes, or many of the other alternatives. Many people will always prefer to tune by ear. Some of us just can't do it as well as we'd like to.

I'm not sure I'm quite as confident in the reliability of tuning forks (of the kind usually used) as some seem to be. I've used a fair number of them, and usually they're quite accurate when new, but no matter how carefully you care for them, they seem to "wander" after a while.

Two A-440Hz forks that were "perfectly matched" when I got them (a pair, one for each case) now "beat" at about 15 or 20 Hz when you put them together. Since they were "identical," one would suspect that they'd "drift" in the same direction, so the 15 Hz is probably not the error - but the difference in error of the two. I don't have a "lab grade" setup to test them against "absolute" standards, but my impression is that both have gone "flat," but one is 15 Hz (approximately) "flatter" (or maybe less flat) than the other.

Actually, either is still close enough to be quite usable, but it is obvious that at least one, and probably both, are a little "off absolute" accuracy.

Many of the "better" tuners now will sound a tone, usually A-440Hz, and are actually quite good at maintaining calibration. They are probably more "reliable," if you're looking for "always get the same 440 Hz" than most tuning forks, and possibly less susceptible to damage that affects the "accuracy" of the reference tone. They are a little more bulky than the forks usually seen, but are often smaller than the "laboratory" forks you would need to use for comparable accuracy. (And much smaller than the box you'd want to keep a "lab" fork in.) You do have to replace/charge the batteries every year or so in an electronic tuner.

With a little step up on the price scale, you can get electronic tuners that will sound any single note you select. And the note sustains until you're done tuning and turn it off.

At the top of the line, you can get a tuner that detects the note you are playing and sounds the nearest "in tune" note for you to tune to by ear, if you prefer not to fight with the needle. In this class, you also get a choice of tuning to the usual equal-tempered scale, to the just scale for whatever specific key you select, or sometimes to as many as a half-dozen other "temperaments." (And I have no idea why anyone would want one of thees "other temperaments, but it's there.)

The bottom line, though, is if it sounds good to you you're in tune. If it doesn't sound good to those you play with, they probably aren't (in tune with you, at least). It is, after all, about the music - not a laboratory experiment.

John

Subject: RE: Pitch pipe vs electronic tuner
From: Mooh
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 04:35 PM

I've always lusted after a Peterson strobe tuner. Great for set-ups and intonation. A friend has one and his work is always true.

As it is I use a (now) beat up old Yamaha, a newer Boss, an Intellitouch, Digitech, and umpteen borrowed ones. Every so often I compare my own and they all seem to be calibrated alike. The Intellitouch gets used mostly for mandolin as it dislikes low notes (though it hears harmonics quite well), the Yamaha is reserved for students as it is the most expendable, and I use the Boss most often for guitar and bass as it will operate chromatically and is designed to drop low for my 5-string bass.

For autoharp I haven't had any trouble with a contact pickup plugged into the Boss tuner, but I've never had to do it in a hurry, backstage, or with any ambient noise.

All that aside, I still believe one should be able to tune an instrument to itself once a decent pitch is established, so I still keep a tuning fork handy and like to use it once in a while. It's a C261.6hz which my electronic tuners tell me is a hair sharp. I like to tune a C major chord to it.

Last time I looked at new tuners the Korg brand looked good, but I'd still prefer the Peterson if I could afford it.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Pitch pipe vs electronic tuner
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Apr 04 - 07:25 PM

For a solo performer, anything works so long as it gets you in tune with yourself. If there are any people listening with perfect pitch and frowning because your relative tuning isn't exactly standard, big deal.

But for playing with other people, getting in tune together is what matters, and there's nothing to beat electronic tuners for that.

Actually something that has always puzzled me about "perfect pitch". The standard tuning we have today isn't exactly the same as it has been at times in the past. So does that mean that, at the time the change came about, people who had had perfect pitch suddenly stopped having it, and another bunch of people, who had always been a wee bit sharp or flat suddenly became perfect? Or does "perfect pitch" sense adjust itself to match the custom of the time and place? And how long does that take?

Subject: RE: Pitch pipe vs electronic tuner
From: s&r
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 04:12 PM

was it John Dankworth who insisted he hadn't been speeding, because in third gear at thirty miles an hour his gearbox sounded a perfect A ... or something like that, and he would have known by the change in pitch had he gone faster.

Stu

Subject: RE: Pitch pipe vs electronic tuner
From: Art Thieme
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 06:51 PM

Pitch pipe or tuning fork or electronic tuner.

These days I prefer a pitch fork.

Art

Subject: RE: Pitch pipe vs electronic tuner
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 25 Apr 04 - 11:54 PM

It was indeed the great Mr. Dankworth, and guess what - his defence succeeded! At least there was one judge about at the time who wasn't a SOF!
:0)

Subject: RE: Pitch pipe vs electronic tuner
From: mooman
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 04:15 AM

I was always a tuning fork afficionado but these days use the Intellitouch for all instruments mainly as it (for me at least) is extremely accurate and I am often tuning up to the throb of bass and other instruments in the background. The Intellitouch stays attached to the headstock for adjustments if necessary midgig. It is also programmable for odd tunings.

I agree entirely with Mooh that it doesn't like the lowest notes (especially the low D on my DADGAD guitar) but here I just use the harmonic and that pulls it in OK.

In the privacy of my living room I will often pull the tuning fork out for old times sake though!

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: Pitch pipe vs electronic tuner
From: fiddler
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 07:30 AM

I've watched this one with interest!

Very interesting.

I use electronic to tune up in large noisy places Pubs bars. Other places have the problem that folk want to talk to you and you can't say 'bog off I'm tuning up' they are paying your hard earned fee for a gig.

The tuner gets you ther but like all fiddlers once tuned I adjust it to my ear and the room etc. see how it rings and sings.

Thats my bit - I try not to use it purely on its own (but sometimes I do)

Andy

Subject: RE: Pitch pipe vs electronic tuner
From: Pied Piper
Date: 26 Apr 04 - 08:24 AM

Absolutely Fiddler the tuner is a tool to get you as near as possible then it's down to your ears.
One problem is that wind instruments tend to go sharp with temperature as the speed of sound increases.
speed of sound calculator
String and free-reed instruments tend to go flat as their metal bits expand.
PP