Would you take a life?What circumstance?

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:09 AM

Ben thar

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:10 AM

Don that

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:12 AM

Could do it again....with "educated" folk who are ignorant of the BS nominclatures

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: BlueJay
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 04:11 AM

Yup, Yup. Got a concealed gun permit :) and I'm ready to mow the bastards down at any time. Police our streets! Police our streets! Unfortunately for society, I don't have a gun to conceal yet. I'm looking for a really well fitting holster first. Any recommendations?

But seriously, though, Rick, when push comes to shove I would do whatever I had to to protect my family. Years ago, I had an intruder in my apartment at about 3 am. Scared the shit out of us, because we had a newborn baby. I attacked with a lamp, which was the only weapon at hand, and had the intruder out the front door before I recognised her.

It was the woman who lived next door. Drunk on her ass, she saw my baby who was sleeping near the living room window, and decided to come in for a closer look. She was a good neighbor, but not a really close friend. I'm glad I didn't have a gun. Thanks, BlueJay

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: kendall
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 05:45 AM

Ebbie, that was hilarious!

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 07:54 AM

Mmario's and Rick's comments on cowardice bring back the crazy logic of Spike Milligan's Puckoon, in which the Milligan's defence was that he was brave enough - just saddled with coward's legs.

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 07:55 AM

Only if I were really really cross.

Kris

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 08:58 AM

I honestly don't know what I would do, and I've thought about it. I'd like to think that if I were in a situation where I was sure my life were threatened, I could kill to preserve it. I won't know for sure until I get into that situation, and I hope I never do.

I was 17 when my mother and I came home to find my dad dead on the kitchen floor. Despite years of CPR training in water safety courses, I stood there frozen in shock, stuck in a slow-motion world while my brain fired conflicting thoughts too quicly for me to latch onto even one of them. It turned out that it wouldn't have mattered, but that lag time Coyote Breath talked about could have caused his death, or at least prevented the rest of his life. I've since been in situations where I have not "frozen," but I'm always aware it's possible and I must overcome it.

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Art Thieme
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 09:11 AM

I take numerous lives every day. Just walking down the street I kill ants and a slew of other inselcts, plants and other life forms. Brushing my teeth I kill off (hopefully) a ton of bacteria. Wiping my eyes I destroy all kinds of various creatures that are, I've been told, living on my eye lids. Conversely, when I am no longer alive, I will nourish all manner of creatures. While I'm here, I do hope my songs and my actions did some nourishing and not too much harm.

Art Thieme

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: ard mhacha
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 09:22 AM

This thread for US Cats only. They love their guns. Slan Ard Mhacha.

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: KitKat
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 09:32 AM

I'm with all the other parents on this one - there's no pain and misery too bad to inflict on people who torture and kill children - merely killing them wouldn't be nearly enough.

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: SharonA
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 09:44 AM

You betcha we love our guns. Second Amendment rights and all that.

Yes, I would defend myself if someone were trying to kill me, and if I killed that person in the process I would feel terrible for having taken a life but would not feel guilty. Does that make sense?

I did decide to end the life of my 19-year-old cat who was in the final stages of kidney failure, had gone blind, and was obviously miserable and in pain. Even so, I still (two years later) feel terrible about having him put to sleep... but my feelings of guilt are for having let him suffer for so long BEFORE making the decision to put him to sleep.

SharonA

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 10:06 AM

Ard Mhacha, this thread was started by a Canadian. Please do not make blanket statements about Americans. We do NOT all love guns, including me.

kat

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: GUEST,L.
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 10:14 AM

I am going to interpet this to be a human life question. I hope I never have to make the decision but to protect my loved ones from imminent danger from someone who was about to kill them, I would certainly try to prevent harm even if it meant that I would have to take the life of another person. I would likely extend that action to protect an innocent had I the power and wherewithal.

L.

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 12:05 PM

Not this parent, KitKat.

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: mousethief
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 12:06 PM

dead people don't come after you seeking revenge

At least you'd better hope they don't! Cos once they're dead, you can't kill 'em no more!

Alex

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 12:38 PM

I have it on good authority that the Chicago ant population live in mortal fear of Art.

Anyone remember the title of the movie I mentioned earlier? Any thoughts on the choice that the Doctor made? Tough one.

Jeri, thanks. Tough story. I also learned a lot of those techniques, but I'm not sure how I'd react in a similar situation.

Rick

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Kim C
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 12:41 PM

MMario, wha'd that guy DO to you anyway! You seem like such a sweet individual so it must have been Really Bad.

Fionn - I don't know this for sure cause I'm a blackpowder gal and don't care for automatic-type weapons - but I THINK the US stopped the importation of AK-47s some time ago. The ones that are still here can be bought and sold but there ain't no new ones coming in. At least I think that's right, but don't anyone take it for gospel because I could very well be wrong. And I know there are other countries who buy them.

I love my gun but there aren't too many crimes being committed with flintlocks these days. She was my daddy's so there's a lot of sentimental value there. I'm taking her to a shooting match in 2 weeks.

Chances are, if someone surprised me in my house, the Household Defense Weapon (which is NOT a blackpowder gun) would probably not be accessible to me, so I would have to resort to strategery instead. But I would definitely fight for my life if it were necessary. If someone wants to take it they're going to have to work awfully damn hard.

The TV, they can have. They already took it once, about 8 years ago. Good thing nobody was home at the time.

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: vindelis
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 01:17 PM

I don't know that I could do the deed myself, I just hope that if the time came I would find the strength to let the medical profession do it.

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: M.Ted
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 01:18 PM

Why anyone would steal a TV is beyond me, Kim, they're useless without the cable--

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: annamill
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 01:53 PM

I don't know... I would definitely take my own if I felt the quality of my life would never be good again. So, it follows that I could take the life of someone else who was suffering if that was what they wanted.

I once had someone break into my house and I told my husband I was very glad I didn't have a gun. I don't believe in killing someone who is need enough to break into a house. This is someone who needs help. But, I would have shot him if I had a gun.

I would probably shoot someone in a war situation, but I think your state of mind is in a strange place then. The old "Fight or Flight" syndrome type thing.

I guess you gotta be there.

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: ShankhillPhantom
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 02:16 PM

I nearly did once,I was willing to take 5 lives because the father would not lend me a truck to earn myself £30 for to spend on drink,I can assure you all that I would have commited that act,I was so sure that I tried to manufacture a petrol bomb to pitch thru the window ,thanks be to God that it did not happen but I had to confess to them good people many, many years later, today I could not hurt a fish (I gave it up so as I wold not inflict pain on them ,I'm still sick but not as bad)

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 02:21 PM

The "preparedness" Jeri brought up (sorry Jeri, touching story) makes me think of my friend Wayne, an EMT/Paramedic for 25 years before going to PA school. Both families were in my van coming back from the zoo one night and as I waited in the left turn lane to get on the outerbelt, a woman in a minivan zoomed past us in the other lane not seeing the red light evidently. She rammed into a pickup coming off the exit in a horrendous smashup. I am sitting in the driver's seat as dumbfounded as everyone else when I realized that Wayne was already halfway to the wreck. The minivan's airbag had deployed but the woman was "out" and the van was rolling across the road. Wayne managed to throw the thing into park and was immediately inside and stabilizing her neck, etc. I had finally managed to move myself, but it was amazing to watch what this guy did without apparent thought.

What makes this kinda' funny is that in everyday life, Wayne is about as laid back as you get and can never make a decision without thinking for a long time. I mean we've sat in his driveway discussing (for about 5 minutes) which way is best to turn to go to the friggin' airport! He's a great guy.....don't misunderstand. It is though, completely amazing, the difference between the professional Wayne and the personal Wayne.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 02:27 PM

What a moronic question - the instinct to survive is so strong that nearly everyone would kill to stay alive. It's like trying to hold your breath to commit suicide. I've killed in war and in peace and it changes one forever. Not always so pleasantly either. But if you decide to defend yourself, and most of you will when confronted with the situation, you'd better know the law or be prepared to go to prison for it.

I personally don't know anyone who "Loves" guns. I do enjoy them and have a concealed carry - and use it. Outside my home the cops take care of it - inside my home I take care of it.

How's that for a flamer??

Peace Brothers and Sisters :-)

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 02:31 PM

Rick, wasn't it Crimes and Misdemeanors?

Good story, Spaw. Something happens when you train and work in that environment. I was glad to find out that I stayed that way when emergencies with my kids or family came up. My oldest daughter was only about 3 when she had a grand mal seizure. I went right into EMT mode, cleared her airway, etc. while dilaing for an ambulance. I've since had other occassions to experience the same.

kat

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: annamill
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 02:34 PM

Sorry about this, but I've been trying to reach this Mudcatter.

NORTON1 -- Please PM me ASAP. You won the Ramblin' Jack Auction and I need your address.

Love, Annamill

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:14 PM

NEVER NEVER NEVER. It would be of more use to the world if people put as much thought into CREATING life.

Jock

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Jande
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:20 PM

I believe that as long as I didn't have time to *think* about it, I could kill another human being. I have much too much imagination. We are all capable of it, IMO, but for each of us the circumstances precipitating it would be different.

Fo me it would be a towering desperate rage that would do it. And the event that triggered it would not necessarily be a very large thing.

Once, during a time in my life when I was desperate, and dependent on my bicycle for transportation, and had just spent the week's grocery money to get my bicycle tires replaced after someone had slashed them, I went out the next morning to find them slashed again! I was later thankful I didn't have an UZI because I was so full of despair and rage that if I'd had one I would have ran the block's length to the corner of Queen and Bathurst and let loose at everything that moved. At the time, I had to call a counsellor to "talk me down".

It was that proverbial "last straw" feeling. I would also kill if I was trapped.

In a high-school episode once, I almost killed a girl who through a misunderstanding, jumped on me to try and beat me up while I was sitting in the back seat of a convertable. I hardly felt any of her blows, my blood was up so quickly. I just reached up and had her by the throat and started squeezing. She had the bruises from that for weeks. I'm pretty sure I would have killed her if she hadn't wrenched herself free. Strangely enough, before that I thought of myself as a weakling, and that episode gave me more confidence as a whole. It being in self-defense, it was an exhiliarating experience.

I get that rage whenever I see an adult hurting a small child. I've got that reasonable under control now, though. I've learned that it often makes things worse for the child if you interfere with parental brutality or harrassment.

On the other hand, I also believe that every human has within them the capacity for compassion, true remorse, to make restitution/penance, etc. So if I have the chance to think about it the need to anihilate the perpetrator subsides.

~ Jande

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:23 PM

Jock - I can assure you that I spend a bunch more time practicing creating life than I do practicing to do harm!!! Ya gotta love the freedom this place has - :-}

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:32 PM

Once, in a red-raging, bitter dispute, I wanted to suggest to him that we go outside away from the other people to continue the discussion but I didn't- because I knew that if we were alone, I would pick up a board or anything else to hand. That is definitely a murderous impulse.

If circumstances didn't interfere, there would be a lot more killings!

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 06:03 PM

You're making a LOT of sense Ebbie. Were it not for circumstances I'd probably have shot every drunk in a bar who ever asked me to sing "Tie A Yellow Ribbon"!....or anything by Kenny Rogers...or Neil Young......

Rick

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: katlaughing
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 06:12 PM

When I was young and my not-then-ex was beating on my dog, I did take up a gun I had and I shot it, over his head to get his attention; screaming hadn't stopped him, but the gunshot did. Because I was afraid he would turn the gun on me, I immediately slammed the door shut and locked it. He was outside and couldn't get in.

I am really glad I didn't shoot him, but I do remember the desperation and rage I felt that I couldn't get his violence to stop. At that time I was hitting dead center at target practice all of the time, so it wasn't a matter of missing him. I gave the dog away the next day. It wasn't too long after that I moved out and got a divorce.

kat

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 06:34 PM

Whew!

To return to the original question that started all this...

Yes. I believe at this point I would take a life if someone were to offer me one...as long as it wasn't a life with really miserable conditions attached to it, that is...and there are certainly plenty of those in this world. You gotta be careful about stuff like that. - LH

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Ringer
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 12:05 PM

Not much comment on the military aspect, so far. Would you 'list if your country was at war and you were drafted?

Would you be Public Executioner? (If your country applies capital punishment, someone's got to do it.)

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: English Jon
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 12:20 PM

This is a bit of a stupid question.

I'm not a great one for Bibles, but I seem to remember:

"Thou shalt do no murder"

in between "look after your parents" and "don't sleep with the next-door neighbor's wife".

Feel quite strongly about this one. To deliberately kill another person is, in my opinion, the worst thing anyone can do. My personal feeling re "the military" is that it would all be fine if it could do its job without violence, but untill it can, I'll be campaigning for it to be decommisioned. I think that people see killing (and being killed) in a "war" situation as glorious in some strange way. "Dulce et decorum est pro patria mori" and all that sort of thing. Frankly, I think this is bollocks, and if INDIVIDUAL people would all realise that guns are bad, the world would be a considerably nicer place. Of course, this only works if everyone agrees, as one bloke with a gun can terrorise a lot of people without a gun. So folks, the brave thing to do is not have one. And that's why I think soldiering is a stupid occupation. Go and get a proper job.

EJ (surprisingly incensed) must be coffee time.

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 12:34 PM

Guns are bad? I didn't know they possessed life and the ability to provide a rationale. Guns aren't squat - it's what people do with them that determines if they are appropriate or not. What an irresponsible statement! People need to take responsibility for what they do - not blame what they use as the problem.

As far a soldiering being a stupid occupation - who made you the judge of what is honorable and what is not?

If everyone had a gun then no one could terroize anyone. Every country or state that has outlawed weapons has seen a huge increase in crime rates. Where concealed carry permits have been made available the crime rates have decreased. You are more at risk from seeing your doctor than you are of being injured by a gun.

And what the hell is a "proper job?"

Not incensed - in a state of umbrage.

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: mousethief
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 12:37 PM

If everyone had a gun then no one could terroize anyone

What a lot of hooey! Anyone more willing to use his gun than someone who places a higher value on human life could terrorize his more humane neighbors.

Alex

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 12:50 PM

Humane neighbors?? Those neighbors wouldn't be so humane if they allowed some one person to terrorize the rest without interceding. They would be part of the problem and not the solution in my opinion.

Are we flaming yet??

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: English Jon
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 12:53 PM

"Guns are bad? I didn't know they possessed life and the ability to provide a rationale. Guns aren't squat - it's what people do with them that determines if they are appropriate or not. What an irresponsible statement! People need to take responsibility for what they do - not blame what they use as the problem."

Yes that's exactly what I meant, but you've said it better than me.

"And what the hell is a "proper job?""

Well, that's a whole other level of philosophy, but in this context, I mean one where you're paid to do something constructive rather than kill people. Point is, I could earn far more in the British army than I do in the entertainment industry, fine in many ways military life is very attractive. Good rates of pay, holidays, you get to travel, clear promotional path, good pension etc, all in all, quite a good lifestyle, but I couldn't ever join, because I find the core concept totally disagreeable. You're a military man, Norton and I don't expect you to agree with me.

"who made you the judge of what is honorable and what is not?"

Well, nobody, but the thread did ask for peoples opinions, certainly, I wouldn't feel honorable if I had a gun.

Everyone has to make their own moral judgement. However, I feel that killing people is the same whether you're a soldier or an assasin. Being paid to do it on behalf of someone else, a private individual or a government makes no difference. I guess it's a conscience thing.

EJ

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Midchuck
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 01:15 PM

I wouldn't feel honorable if I had a gun...

Huh?

I wouldn't feel honorable if I did not have a gun.

I would be refusing to accept my share of responsibility for the protection of the safety and freedom of myself and my family, and dumping it on someone else.

"Unarmed free citizen" is an oxymoron. IMNSHO.

Peter.

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 01:26 PM

Guess that makes me an assasin by your standards as I did receive pay to kill others. And opinions and judgements are different. Yes I spent time in the military, even work for them as a social worker trying to get families to harmonize instead of fight, and am quite proud of my service. So I won't expect you to agree with me either.

The one thing I do know is that the core concept of an armed military being sent where the government wants with consent of the governed makes all of us culpable in the killing. Being the payee is no better than being the one paid in my opinion.

Makes us all assasins by proxy doesn't it?

SN

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Jim Krause
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 01:47 PM

Rick,
We are all pretty complicated beings. Some of the paradoxes you mention about yourself I see in myself also. For instance, I registered as a Concientious Objector during the Viet Nam unpleasantness, but I very much enjoy target shooting at the local muzzleloading gun club. There are several jobs I will not apply for, because I would feel the need to report for work armed. These include liquor store clerk, convenience store clerk, and certainly any sort of police work. But had I been born in Canada, I might have really tried hard to justify the compromise in my beliefs so I could join the RCMP. I just love horses, and dressage is great fun.

As to taking a life, I hope never, never to be in a situation where I must make that decision. So I try to avoid situations where I may have to make that choice. And that includes my choice of neighborhoods in which to live.
Jim

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: mousethief
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 02:01 PM

Humane neighbors?? Those neighbors wouldn't be so humane if they allowed some one person to terrorize the rest without interceding. They would be part of the problem and not the solution in my opinion.

They'd all be dead if they're less bloodthirsty than the nasty neighbor.

Alex

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 02:16 PM

Bloodthirsty? You can't be serious. As a self adjudicated assasin, philosophically speaking that is, it doesn't have anything to do with a lust for blood.

The core of all military and police groups is that a set of people with like minded ideology decided to protect that same ideology with armed professionals taken from their own citizenry.

In that context we are all citizens of our respective ideological inclinations and to defend one's neighbors from another who seeks to destroy the peace and harmony is being responsible to self and country/ideology.

I laud Jim for having the personal belief system strong enough to risk it all to not participate in his country of choice's decision. I wonder at the rest who simply condemn without having the conviction to actually do something.

SN

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 02:22 PM

Funny...those to whom a bloodthirsty ferocity and combativeness comes naturally can't seem to find respect for those to whom it doesn't...and vice versa! You are both disgusted with one another's lack of good sense, decency, humanity, and responsibility.

Why don't you both just let the other one be what he is with good grace?

People are different, but that doesn't necessarily mean that anyone is WRONG...in an ultimate sense.

We all have free will. Is it any wonder that different people choose to use it differently?

There is a time and place for everything, guns included, I suspect. I don't own one at this time. It hasn't made a rat's ass of difference in my life, but it might have under different circumstances...in which case I might have owned a gun...or not...who knows?

I've already died any number of times. More than I can count or imagine. Why get all bent out of shape over the possibility of it happening once more? It's gonna happen eventually anyway, whether or not I own a gun. Don't sweat it, cos death may not be so bad as you think.

Chew on that.

- LH

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 02:31 PM

...those to whom a bloodthirsty ferocity and combativeness comes naturally can't seem to find respect for those to whom it doesn't...and vice versa!

I don't know LH - Why is that?

You are both disgusted with one another's lack of good sense, decency, humanity, and responsibility.

I can't recall saying I was disgusted with anyone - it appears to me to be the exact opposite - we are all showing good sense, sticking to our beliefs, haven't really called anyone names, are deeply vested in upholding our version of humanity - i.e. retaining life if at all possible - and are being responsible through our public expression of our belief. If no one talks about it how do we share perspective?

This bloodthirsty thing is really wierd - where does that come from??

SN

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 02:45 PM

And this is my final response - May Peace abide with all of us - Good Night Sweet Prince wherever you are - - -SN

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 02:55 PM

Could be I'm just in a lousy mood...

I think that any point of view seems to make sense under certain conditions. That's why people frequently end up contradicting both themselves and others.

I can imagine times when I would want a gun, and times when I would not necessarily want one. One thing that worries me about guns is, they make it a little too easy to kill someone. Better if it's not that easy. I might well have killed one or two people by now if I'd had a gun right there and handy.

I have a friend who is definitely bloodthirsty, in the sense that he would like to see this group or that group of people done away with....his standard solution to every social problem is to exterminate the offenders (whomever they might be presumed to be)...or at least deport them (to where is always the question...).

On the other hand, as far as I know, he's never done anything harmful to anyone, and in fact has been a good friend to many, including me.

I'm at a loss to explain it. Life is weird. Pardon my lousy mood.

- LH

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: Steve in Idaho
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 02:57 PM

LH - - - No Problem :-)

Subject: RE: Would you take a life?What circumstance?
From: SharonA
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 03:08 PM

English Jon sez: "I feel that killing people is the same whether you're a soldier or an assassin. Being paid to do it on behalf of someone else, a private individual or a government makes no difference."

Agreed, Jon, that in each case the "killee" is just as dead. However, I think there is a difference between the assassin's action and the soldier's action:

(a) While the assassin does his deed voluntarily, the soldier may have been drafted or (s)he may have been tempted into enlisting by the promised college-education benefits or may have signed up for some reason other than the opportunity to kill. The soldier's planned "career path" may have had nothing to do with active duty but, once (s)he was in, his/her life was no longer his/her own and (s)he may have found him/herself on the battlefield unwillingly.

(b) While the assassin gets paid for his kill, a soldier is paid whether (s)he kills or not. In other words, the soldier is not being paid to kill specifically.

(c) While the assassin kills for monetary gain and/or personal privilege, the soldier may well feel that the "loftier goal" of defense of country or defense of the free world (or whatever part of the world [s]he is from!) is a greater good for which (s)he is willing to take another life.

(d) While the assassin's victim is usually surprised and is not actively trying to kill the assassin before the victim is approached, the soldier's victim is as dedicated to killing him/her as (s)he is to killing his/her enemy, so the element of self-defense comes into play.

BTW I apologize if I offended anyone with my flippant statement about how "we" Americans love "our" guns. I shouldn't have generalized. Personally, I like target shooting, but I hate to see guns used irresponsibly (last Mother's Day, I performed at a Million Mom March rally to promote gun safety legislation).

SharonA