Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe

Subject: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: GUEST,Thom of PA
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 11:41 AM

I am looking for the music score and lyrics to the Scottish balad "The Massacre Of Glencoe". Can anyone help me out.

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Search for "glencoe" threads

Glencoe in the Digital Tradition.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe^^
From: pavane
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 11:53 AM

Is this the one? Massacre of Glencoe (Bodley)^^

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: MMario
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 11:54 AM

lyrics are available in the DT at GLENCOE (lyrics and tune by Jim McLean)

a midi is available here

there are a number of programs available for downloading that will convert the midi to sheet music. Noteworthy Composer is my favorite.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 12:17 PM

Lots of threads on 'Glencoe'
here
here
and here

and info, midi at and contemplator (lyrics and tune by Jim McLean)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 12:35 PM

tune here

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: pavane
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 01:08 PM

The Bodley copy in my link is a different song to the one in the DT.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 01:50 PM

To be honest, I'd be surprised if that one has been sung in a very long time.  As a rule, references to this title are to the modern song by Jim McLean, though there are always people who think, for some reason, that it's traditional and/or old.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Lin in Kansas
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 02:11 PM

The one in the DT is actually called "The Rape of Glencoe," (I think). I heard it sung by Barley Bree on one of their tapes.

Pavane, I'd never heard (or seen the lyrics to) the one you linked--interesting! Are the two songs speaking of the same massacre? They're very different--for instance, in "Massacre" it's the English slaughtering everyone, with cannon no less; in the DT version it's the Campbells in a sneak attack, etc. Were there two different massacres??? (I admit I know way too little about Scottish history...)

Lin

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 02:14 PM

Hi Malcolm
This thread made me think of another tune in one of the Northumbrian pipers tune books, its called
The Heroes of Glencoe
I think, is it related or entirely different?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 03:04 PM

And McDonalds are still getting their revenge!!!

LTS (Oh for heaven's sake, laugh a little!!!)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: pavane
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 04:32 PM

Yes, I wasn't convinced that was the one you wanted, although it has similarities to Pride of Glencoe.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 05:25 PM

There was a "GLencoe" i Beethoven's Scotch Songs (Dyer-Bennet recorded it)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: ollaimh
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 08:01 PM

the campbell's definately did the massacreering.

hack spit. they were in the employ of english politicians who were trying to end highland resistance to english domination of scotland. the macdonald's of glencoe--the laird and family was maciain--my actual clan. were the war hawks of the north so the idea was to squash the radicals and the waverers would fall in line.this was part of the long term ethnic cleansing done by the english in the celtic isles

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 25 Jul 01 - 08:34 PM

With respect, Ollaimh, I'd suggest you check the historical record before trying to blame the "Wicked English" for this one.  Although it can be comforting to blame everything on an external "enemy", it rarely addresses the real issues.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 01:46 AM

Yeah, it isn't always the English.... The French have been pretending to be your friends for centuries now....!

If the Scottish lairds weren't so greedy, (even the sainted Bruce fought for the English side once or twice), then they wouldn't have sold their own people into conscription and starvation.

LTS

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: pavane
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 03:43 AM

Lin, Don't the spin doctors always describe events from their own point of view? The history of a war depends on whose side you are on, and the winning side's version normally becomes 'fact'. These days, of course, it is made worse by the film makers deliberately changing history. (e.g. recent film including the enigma machine).

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 09:09 AM

I got my version of the story from a bar tender at the Garrowood House in Keith Scotland. According to him, it was the king's secretary of something or other who actually signed the order to wipe out the MacDonalds. This Dalrymple guy had a hair across for the McDonalds, and he over stepped his authority when he ordered the Campbells to "make an example " of the MacDonalds.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Gervase
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 09:15 AM

Jeez, who'd have thought that a little local difficulty over burgers and soup would cause such a rumpus!

Subject: Lyr Add: MASSACRE OF GLENCOE^^
From: GUEST,Calach
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 10:49 AM

I sing this regularly in Fife, Scotland, but I had to make up my own tune. i prefer it to the more popular version described above.

MASSACRE OF GLENCOE

O' dark lowred the night on the wild distant heath
And the wild raven croaked out the bodings of death
While the moon hid her beams in the clouds out of woe
Disdaining to gaze on the fields of Glencoe

While deep balmy sleep closed each eye in rest
And the chieftan slumbered with peace in his breast
Ne'er dreading the hour that fate seemed to show
That bloody and pale, he should lie in Glencoe

But a flash soon denoted the signal was given
And the thunders of death wa'kd the meteors of heaven
While Flora, poor Flora she wandered in woe
To seek for MacDonald, the pride of Glencoe

O' sudden a flash on her vision did glare
While a cannon's loud thunder was pealed through the air
It wakened ten thousand brave heroes below
And roared through the caverns of mighty Glencoe

The smoke then arose from our dear native glen
With the shrieks of the women and cries of the men
Naked mothers were shot with their babes as they ran
For the English had risen to murder the clan

O' many a warrior that evening was slain
While the blaze of the village gleamed far o'er the plain
A hundred MacDonalds that night were laid low
And their blood stained the heath of their native Glencoe

Then Flora she shrieked while loose hung her hair
O' where is my Donald, o' tell me, O' where?
He slumbers forever now free from his woe
And stretched, cold, and bloody, he lies in Glencoe

Her dark rolling eyes then did kindle with fire
She fell on his body and then did expire
No more lovely Flora again feared her foe
But in death found her Donald, the pride of Glencoe

And now o'er their heads the green grass does wave
And the wild flowers do nod o'er their desolate grave
And the strangers that pass shed a tear as they go
For Flora and Donald, the pride of Glencoe

^^

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: pavane
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 10:58 AM

Campbells and McDonalds still remember and avoid each other. I can recall working with a guy in Ipswich not long ago who brought it up for no apparent reason. I seem to remember that the McDonalds were intending to comply with whatever order it was, but had unwittingly missed the deadline (appropriate term, in the circumstances)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: MMario
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 11:03 AM

Calach - that is very close to the broadside version Pavane posted a link to; do you have any means of transmitting the tune? midi, abc, scanned dots? solfa?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 01:37 PM

I'm confused (not hard to do) about the reference to Flora MacDonald. This cant be the same one who saved Bonnie Prince Charlie, this masssacre happened in 1602, and, Flora MacDonald save Charlie in 1746. Explain.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Barry Finn
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 02:56 PM

Kendall, she wust've been just a kid at the killing & was probably a bit older when she met Charlie, or she may not have been at either but I'd put my money on her being at all 3 place in time. You headed to Portsmouth tomorrow night? Barry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 03:23 PM

Flora was not an uncommon name, particularly in ballads; there's no reason to imagine any connection with the famous one.  Two sets of the song Calach and Pavane quote appear in volume 1 of The Greig-Duncan Folk Song Collection (1981); both seem to be derived from broadsides, and the first, c.1850, has a tune.  It's the first time I've seen the Campbells described as English, mind...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: kendall
Date: 26 Jul 01 - 09:45 PM

Barry, old buddy, it took me 46 years to get that tobacco smoke out of my system, so, I avoid places that allow it. I will miss the company though.

Here's a thought, Having a smoking section in a public room is like having a pissing section in a public pool.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: GUEST,O'Cathain
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 03:07 AM

I would personally agree with ollaimh and i would personally blame the english and their system of eraddication of people they dont need or become troublesome to them.Sure twasn't too long ago they gave pox ridden blankets to the native americans (indian is a derrogatory term) so that they wouldnt have any trouble from them.To quote malcom if I may "external "enemy"", the english had a meddling in other people's affairs for many centuries now and they have always been the scourge of the celtic isles, the terrier nation, a mixmatch of uncouth ruffians who caused such terror and suffering.I blame them wholheartedly for the massacre and the part they played.Bastards.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 04:07 AM

O' Cathain, your idiosyncratic style of writing and spelling is so similar to that of ollaimh that it is hard to believe you are not one and the same person. Did it really take you over two years to come up with that response ?

Murray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: GUEST,Santa
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 04:28 AM

As someone with a Scottish surname, Border origins, born in NE England and living in the NW, next to a river where the Romans had to keep ships to limit Irish pirates, I find it a bit rich of the Scots and Irish to complain about English interference in their affairs. St. Patrick was initially taken from the mainland as a slave by Irish raiders - before England as such ever existed. There's as much fault on one side as the other.

However, despite what someone said above, nowadays it seems that history is being rewritten by the losers.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Teribus
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 05:55 AM

I'd tend to go along with Murray and with Guest Santa.

GUEST,O'Cathain - 09 Sep 03 - 03:07 AM the post by ollaimh of the 25 Jul 01, which you heartily agree is nothing more than simplistic historical clap-trap.

If you are actually interested in the History of the British Isles (geographic, not political, definition), I would advise you to read a book by a Canadian naval historian N. A. M. Roger called "Safeguard of the Seas" - gives quite an illuminating insight into the period from 660 to 1649. If you want to know the facts about people, "...   meddling in other people's affairs for many centuries..." and who for centuries were the real, "...scourge of the celtic isles," Then you will find it all in that book - It will no doubt surprise you to find out that the English were far more sinned against than sinner. The real culprits of the piece, more often than not, were the Spaniards and the French.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 06:23 AM

In my song The Massacre of Glencoe (Oh cruel is the snow...) I did not mention England or the English once. King William of Orange was persuaded, by a Scot, to sign the document which allowed Scots to kill Scots and make Scotland more governable by a Scottish parliament (England had her own in 1692). In the late 50s and early 60s I wrote many Scottish Republican songs and only in particular Battle songs did I blame the English, or rather, side with the Scots. After all, most battles with the English were fought in Scotland against the English invaders and would-be rulers. In political songs I attacked Scottish MPs, not English MPs, as the fault lies with ourselves and Scotland is and always has been ready to sell itselve. It was a fellow Scot who sold out William Wallace. There is no doubt that England has always played the Machiavellian card of Divide and Rule and Burns sings vehemently 'We were bought and sold with English gold' but start blaming ourselves first although remeber England always had an agenda.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: PeteBoom
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 08:25 AM

Jim -

Do you really expect people to listen to you? Honestly. I mean, their minds are already made up. Do NOT confuse them with details like facts.

On the other hand, it certainly is interesting to watch people rant and re-fight arguments when they've no clue what the root causes were.

Cheers -

Pete

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Rapparee
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 08:58 AM

The book "Glencoe" by...dammit, my copy's in storage. Anyway, it gives a very good, balanced account and it's written by a Scottish historian. (I bought it at -- surprise! -- Glencoe.)

You might also peek here.

(In the fear of causing thread creep, living here, just a few miles south of the Shoshone-Bannock Reservation and having lived for many years in Potawatomie country, I've found that both groups (and others, such as the Navajo, Hopi, Apache) prefer the term "Indian" to "Native American." Best of all, call them by the name of their Nation. As one said, "Don't call me 'Native American.' Anyone born here is a native American. Call me a Potawatomie or an Indian.'")

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 09 Sep 03 - 09:10 AM

There is a Glencoe on Cape Breton Island named for and settled by people from the one in Scotland.
Here MacDonalds and Campbells live in harmony side by side, but I am careful where I sing this song.
          Sandy

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: GUEST,Michael Cannon
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 05:27 AM

I looked for bagpipes on youtube and found the Corries.
I was born in 1946 and never heard of them till 2010.
It is a shame that their music was not touted in Australia.
I feel an intense love of their songs now, and at 64 i feel that I can not hear them for the next forty or so years.
Though of Irish background I feel a delight in everything (well, almost) Scottish.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 06:52 AM

Yes Michael, life is too short.
Better to have found it late than never.
We have a lot of Australian folk here. I am sure there is something going on near you somewhere, even if it is a big place!
keith.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: robd
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 10:44 AM

I remember hearing Alex Beaton sing Wee Deoch an Doris, and when he got to the last line, 'If you can say, "It's a braw bricht moonlicht nicht", Then yer a'richt, ye ken.', he'd repeat it as, 'If you can say, "It's a fine bright moonlight night", Then you're alright, ye know.', and add after, he would add, "That last line was in case there are any Cambell's in the house." This was, I believe, a direct reference to "The Massacre of Glencoe", which he also sang.

(apologies to any Cambell's -- if it's any consolation, you may freely excoriate any of the shanty Irish horse thieves in my past)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Massacre Of Glencoe
From: GUEST,Allan Connochie
Date: 16 Mar 10 - 01:33 PM

The anti-Campbell thing is I imagine a bit waring for some Campbells. It is based on very little too. The MacDonalds have been somewhat romanticised and the Campbells somewaht demonised but both were as bad or as good as each other. On several occassions the MacDonalds openl and not so openly connived with the English against their won country during national struggles and a few decades earlier than Glencoe the MacDonald bards were boasting of how they and their Irish allies had killled 900 Campbells (during the Herschip of Argyl) without a sword being raised against them.