Help: Mudcat netiquette query

Subject: Mudcat netiquette query
From: guest
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 05:54 AM

I've got a whole bundle of lyrics and midis that I'd like to post (100+).

I imagine that it wouldn't be a good idea to flood the forum with 100+ threads of LYRIC ADD for an hour or so

How best should I proceed?

guest

Subject: RE: Help: Mudcat netiquette query
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 07:20 AM

First thing I'd do is check whether they are in thye DT already, or whether they have already been posted in previous threads, by using the search mechanism.

To do that you'd have to register rather than just signing in as GUEST - but then looking again you aren't GUESTm, you are guest, so you're a member anyway.

The ther thing you could do, especially if they are your own lyrics, might be to stick them up on a website of your own you could set up, and just post the links to them here to start with.

Subject: RE: Help: Mudcat netiquette query
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 07:32 AM

Yeah..........Personally, if you've checked that we don't already have them in the DT or Forum, then I'd post them about ten at a time over a several day period. Some of them may spark some interest or discussion and if they all come in at once, most will just skip reading them entirely. A few at a time doesn't clog things up and gives some chance for the threads to be read or commented on.

Just an opinion........

Spaw

Subject: RE: Help: Mudcat netiquette query
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 10:45 AM

What they said, though I'd tend to do it a little more gradually.  Don't rely entirely on a search for titles -as I'm sure you know, these can vary.  Best to cross-check with a search for key phrases as well.  Please also be sure to include any background information you may have, particularly the sources of any traditional songs; a lot of people just quote lyrics from records by revival performers without saying where those people got them, which divorces the song from its context and diminishes its value.

I'm assuming that you know about  The Mudcat Midi Pages,  where midis accompanying threads are kept; it can sometimes take a while for them to be put up there, though, so I've taken to putting midis on a website I'm running, and linking to them there as a temporary measure so that the tune is available straight away.  It helps if the site is a stable, long-term one, though, so that the links don't expire too quickly.

Subject: RE: Help: Mudcat netiquette query
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Jul 01 - 10:54 AM

Sometimes people have given a big project a name, or if they have been posting out of an out-of-print songbook they will make a reference to that book in their thread titles. That way people who like what you are posting can keep an eye out for them as they come in.

One option also is to post the list of titles once you have done the search. The titles will then come up if someone does a search looking for one of the ones you have, and can ask you to post that one. That way the resource is there while you are working on the individual submissions.

Had you seen the FAQ material on song-posting formatting BTW? It will help others for years to come, if you follow those conventions.

~Susan

Subject: Mudcat netiquette for song posting
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 01:36 AM

Hi - Jim Dixon and I do most of the harvesting. We can handle a hundred songs, especially if they're not spread out over too many threads (we tend to lose songs if they're posted all by themselves in separate threads.). If you have several songs that are related in some way or another, it's probably a good idea to post them all in the same thread. Just make sure you put ADD and the song title in the subject title for each individual message, and give the thread a name that encompasses the group. It really does help is you search first to make sure we don't already have the song (but if you have a version that's quite different, we'd like it). It also helps if you provide background infromation, and tell us the sources of your lyrics.
If you post a song that's related to songs we already have, please tell us what songs it's related to and how.

Songs should be posted in Digital Tradition format, which is explained in the FAQ/Newcomer's Guide:

• first line: TITLE IN ALL CAPS
  
• second line: (songwriter name in parentheses)
  
• skip a space
  
• song text
  
• skip a space
  
• Remarks, source information, Child/Laws/Digital Tradition numbers,etc.
  
• skip a space
  
• Initials of the person posting the song.

Jim and I will assign DigiTrad Categories/Keywords and a file name and Digitrad version date. We also correct formatting and search to make sure your song isn't a duplication, but it really helps if you do that for us.

If you have a tune for the song (preferably in Noteworthy Complser format, with lyrics), please say so. MMario will get hold of you and tell you how to submit, and then he sends them on to me. Once we've finished processing songs, we send them on to Dick Greenhaus for inclusion in the Digital Tradition.

We are interested primarily in folk songs and songs that would be interesting to folk singers. Thanks for your generous offer

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Mudcat netiquette query
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 09:11 AM

Short Shelf Life Help
This whole <br> thing will be unnecessary when Max gets the new version of Mudcat on line.

If you goof up the HTML or are just plain confused, feel free to ask for help in our Help Forum (link is in banner up at the top of this page).

The format would look something like this in HTML. You can copy and paste this, then plug the song in.

---

TITLE IN ALL CAPS<br>
(songwriter name in parentheses)<br>
Space<br>
1st verse<br>
Line<br>
Line<br>
Line<br>
Space<br>
2nd verse<br>
Line<br>
Line<br>
Line<br>
Space<br>
3rd verse<br>
Line<br>
Line<br>
Line<br>
Space<br>
Initials go here.

Subject: RE: Help: Mudcat netiquette query
From: Hollowfox
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 12:18 PM

Hey, guest, thanks for asking before starting the project.

Subject: RE: Help: Mudcat netiquette query
From: Susan of DT
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 07:25 PM

If there is a chorus, then:
line
line
Cho: cho line 1
cho line 2
(lined up, which is not happening here)
If you don't want/need discussion on each one, save the harvesting phase by sending the words directly to me in an email attachment (in text): [e-mail] and the tunes to [e-mail]

Warning on timing: an edition is just going to bed now and the next one after this will be six to 12 months from now. Also, if all of the songs are in the same genre, they would not all be put into the DT at the same time - we look for some balance. think long term.

Thank you for helping the Digital Tradition grow.

Subject: RE: Help: Mudcat netiquette query
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 07:49 PM

I'd like to respectfully disagree with Susan about direct-mailing lyrics. If they're posted in the Forum, they're immediately available to everyone who visits Mudcat. If they're sent by e-mail, they're not available until a new edition of the Digital Tradition comes out.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Mudcat netiquette query
From: Sorcha
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 07:54 PM

Why not do both? e mail Susan, and post them here.

---

If you do that, please put a note with the lyrics you post in the forum, and say that you also submitted them by e-mail. Otherwise, we'll end up harvesting and processing while Susan's doing her own processing. I think it's better just to post lyrics in the Forum, knowing that e-mail is available for those who have some reason not to want to post lyrics in the Forum.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: Mudcat netiquette query
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 09:14 PM

I have to say that I agree with Joe on this one.  Rather often (I'm not saying that's the case here, as I obviously don't know) people who say they have loads of songs turn out to have got them from other people's records or books, and most of them turn out to be here already; hence our words about doing a search before posting, which far too few people bother to do.  If things are posted in the Forum, (and attributed, ideally to recognisable sources), the opportunity is there for people who are familiar with the material to correct errors of transcription -which do creep in, even in the best regulated of households- add additional background information, and so forth.  There are still quite a few songs in the DT that are duplicates, having been posted under different titles or harvested by different people, so the initial "filter" offered by the Forum is probably a very useful one.