Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night

Subject: Nine Times a Night
From: pavane
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 08:25 AM

There's a nice twist at the end of this one!

NINE TIMES A NIGHT
(anon, from a broadside in the Bodleian Ballad collection)

A buxom young fellow from London came down
To set up his trade in a small market town
They asked who he was and he answered them right
I belong to a family they call nine times a night

(A buxom young widow who still non her wa {?wore her weeds}
Whose husband had gained by his riches and deeds
Resolved she was by her conjugal right
To fill up her chishum (chasm?) with nine times a night

She ordered her waiting maids Betty and Nan
To keep a look out for that wonderful man
And whenever they saw him appear in their sight
To bring her glad tidings of nine times a night

Fortune favoured the joke on the very next day
Those gigling girls saw him coming that way
Then upstairs they ran with amorous delight
Upon my word madam, here's nine times a night
From a chair she arose (what I say is true)
And down to the hall door like lightening they flew
She viewed him all over and gave him a ?back?
The bargain was struck and done in a crack

The marriage being over the bride [groom?] toll'd the bell
He did it six times, and pleased her well
She vowed from her heart she was satisfied quite
Still she gave him a hint of his nine times a night

He said my dear bride, you mistook the thing wrong
I said to that family I did belong
Nine times a night is too much for a man
I can't do it myself but my sister, she can!

NHJ

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: IanC
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 08:38 AM

I have a very indistinct version of this by Shirley Collins on an old "Folkweave" tape from about 1976-7. Does anyone know if the words are substantially similar to this version? If I could find the tape, I might be able to let you know what the tune was.

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: pavane
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 08:47 AM

That would be good - no tune was specified in the image I used.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 09:44 AM

See also, in the DT,  NINE TIMES A NIGHT  Set from A.L. Lloyd, as recorded by Frankie Armstrong, with tune.

There is also a midi at  The Mudcat Midi Pages,  made by John in Brisbane from a recording by Harry Boardman:  Nine Times a Night

The two tunes are the same, allowing for the usual slight variations; I can't place it just now, but have certainly heard it attached to other songs.  Whether or not Lloyd attached it to this one I don't know, though that would not have been unprecedented.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 09:56 AM

Neither one of those tunes are the ones I know for the song.

If Bat Goddess reads this, where did you get your version? (I'm sure I have a recording of it by someone, but who?)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: IanC
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 10:05 AM

Malcolm

Maybe my memory's getting a little bad, but I don't think that tune (both are essentially the same) is the one Shirley Collins was singing it to, either.

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: Tune: Nine Times a Night
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 11:07 AM

Here's a midi of the tune I'm used to hearing from various singers.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: ChanteyMatt
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 06:55 PM

Jeri, that's the one I know too. Most recently by a duo called "The Pilots of Tiger Bay"

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 08:43 PM

Ok, we've got two tunes now.  Does anybody know where either of them came from?

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Snuffy
Date: 30 Jul 01 - 08:56 PM

In Folk Songs and Ballads of Lancashire (Oak, 1973)the attribution is Words:Traditional Tune:Harry Boardman

Wassail! V

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: GUEST,pelrad
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 12:24 AM

Roberts and Barrand use a very slightly different tune, with the same wording found in the database version, on their album "Present From the Gentlemen." Ooh, doesn't that go well with the song title?

I don't have the liner notes in front of me to see whence their version came.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 09:31 AM

Like Frankie Armstrong, they learned the song from A.L. Lloyd; there would likely be some small differences between the three interpretations of the tune.  I'm not entirely comfortable with Deepest Lancashire's attribution of that melody to Harry Boardman, but perhaps my feeling that I've come across it in earlier collection(s) is just a tribute to Boardman's command of the idiom.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Daystar
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 05:23 PM

Long time age I heared it on an LP Kate of Coalbrookdale

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 05:29 PM

Jeri, I learned it around 1981 from the Frankie Armstrong recording. (Sorry, I've been cutting down trees instead of paying attention to Mudcat.)

Bat Goddess

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 06:39 PM

Did Frankie Armstrong record two different versions then, or is the tune in the DT wrong?

Is it possible someone knew the Boardman tune and sent it in thinking Frankie Armstrong did it the same way?

Bat Goddess learned it from a Frankie Armstrong recording and sings the tune I posted.

I "improved" the MIDI - fixed a boo-boo and sped the tune up a bit. Same link.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 08:35 PM

I haven't heard Frankie Armstrong's recording so far as I can remember, so this is getting a bit confusing.  On the other hand, a lot of the tunes given with DT files are unattributed, and some definitely do not belong with the texts given; it seems to have been considered that any tune was better than none.  I am on record as believing that it's better to have no tune than that the wrong one should be presented as if it were authentic; I do seem to be in a minority, though.  I do rather suspect that the recent drive for "missing tunes" is going to result in a lot of song texts having tunes wished upon them to which they have never been sung.  I wonder who will sort all that out in a few years' time...

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Jeri
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 09:20 PM

Yep, Malcolm. I also wonder how many mistakes there are in the music. There doesn't seem to be any review at all. The tunes get posted and immediatly sent off with no check for quality.

I put the ones I do on the website for review and comments because I'm very aware I can make mistakes. I've received almost no formal education in music, and "self taught" means there are huge gaps in my knowledge. I can also mishear something that another person would pick up.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Anglo
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 01:27 AM

Well, Jon Raven sings it on "Ballad of the Black Country" and uses a variant of "The Outlandish Knight" for a tune. It's similar to the Fred Jordan version, with the shorter 2nd and 4th lines of that tune made up to fit the words.

Jeri's tune above is the one Lloyd used (and presumably made up. or adapted), more or less. Though a bit oral-traditioned :-)

I don't think I've heard Shirley Collins sing it (can any of the posters give a reference?); I can hear Frankie Armstrong in my head (again I can't come up with the recorded source), but I hear the Lloyd tune not the Boardman. I wonder if whoever posted it to the DT just added that tune because it was there without checking to see whether it was the same one.

The Boardman tune, though certainly in the idiom, I would categorize as unremarkable. It seems to be made up of bits of other tunes like Villikins, The Half Hitch & Swaggering Boney, though it stands on its own I suppose. But I can't see Frankie preferring it to Lloyd's tune which to me at least has much more character. [We're in critical mode today having just been reading the review of Frank Harte's Bonaparte on the Musical Traditions webpage :-)].

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Stewie
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 04:09 AM

The tune that Jon Raven fitted to it on 'Kate of Coalbrookdale is quite rollicking and described in his note as 'music-hallese' as he believed it 'to be a true son of the late Industrial Revolution'. The tune he used several years later on the 'Ballad of the Black Country' is much more deliberate and traditional-sounding and, as Anglo mentioned, noted as adapted from one of the 'Outlandish Knight' melodies.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: pavane
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 04:31 AM

Question - is Male ability declining? Here we have 6 times a night, in Cluster of Nuts, we have 12 times a night, and in the even older Comical Wager, c1680 or before, it is the same basic wager, but 7 times in an HOUR. (I still believe 'Once a King, always a King, but once a Knight is enough')

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: IanC
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 04:32 AM

Anglo

re: Shirley Collins singing it. I did give a reference and I do have a copy of the tape. Only thing is I've got hundreds of old tapes, badly catalogued, and I can't find it at present. When I do, I'll post details. All I know at present is that it will be from UK Radio 2's "Folkweave" sometime in 1976 or 1977 and probably live at a folk club or a festival.

Shirley Collins is not terribly well represented on the web, and I can't find anything in any of her discographies. Surely, though a clear reference to something taped by someone who owns it is a reasonable reference. Probably far better than much of the inaccurate rubbish you get on most web sites, anyhow.

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Anglo
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 10:08 AM

Sorry Ian, I cartainly didn't mean to impugn your reference per se, and I agree with you that a radio broadcast is indeed a reasonable reference. However most of us in the US wouldn't get to hear a Radio 2 broadcast. I should probably have said "commercially available recording" in my post, and from your web searches it sounds like there probably isn't one.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 10:35 AM

Please see The BBC Radio Site, and click on a button at the top to listen live in RealAudio, or a link at the left to go to the channel's page.

(Of course, that doesn't help with a show broadcast in 1976 or 7.)

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 01:52 PM

Okay, back with the info (playing telephone tag in between Mudcat sessions).

The Frankie Armstrong LP I got the song from was "...out of love, hope, and suffering." It's the LP I also got Peggy Seeger's "Too Much of a Good Thing" from. Can't find a date on it, but the last copyright date of a song is 1974.

Hope this helps.

Bat Goddess

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: Nine Times a Night
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 08:15 AM

I just checked an older version of the DT that I had on the other computer, thinking, perhaps, that it did not have the MIDI in it and that this was a later addition. But it does and it is definitely NOT the tune Frankie Armstrong sings. I probably never checked it before because I learned the song from the recording long time before the DT's existance. (Yes, Virginia, there was a time before the Digital Tradition...)

Bat Goddess