Special Jug Night part 2

Subject: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Noreen
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 01:21 PM

Who wants to start this one by answering chanteyranger's question:

What kind of music is played at the sessions?

The occasionally heated discussion of the first part of this thread can be found by clicking here: BS: Special Jug Night (135 posts so far.)

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: selby
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 02:43 PM

Wednesday night at the usual time our family will be attending the sesion at the --- ( 2 fiddlers 1 melodeon & 1 accordian )I hope that everyone takes time out to reflect and ponder on the fact that this is a local musicians session where in the past and I hope in the future everyone was and will be welcome. I hope that all bad feeling is left at the door and the session can reconvene in the spirit that first started it when all instruments and styles where welcome there where no ego's and there was no mudcat just musicians attempting to enjoy and better themselves. Mudcat came along after the start of the session and has been a good experience for most if not all but it will be a bad day for music and mudcat if this experience destroys a good local session. Keith

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 31 Jul 01 - 02:47 PM

Ooops I posted to the other thread

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: The Shambles
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 02:55 AM

It looks like the dust is beginning to settle, I cetainly wish this to be the case.

For we have a common enemy and should be fighting together on that front rather than amongst ourselves.

I make no apologies for going on about this issue as it is the most important threat to all our music making.

All of us must do what we can, if we do not NO ONE is going to do it for us.

There is no need to clutter up this thread ny more than I have already done, as there are quite a few threads on the subject. This one is a good start. Council bans Morris dancing.

Good luck to all at the Jug.

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: GUEST,MC Fat (aka Jim McDonald)
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 04:27 AM

Roger I resemble that remark and I quite like 'fairly drunken' it conjours up images I mean for instance can you be unfairly drunk ? (the big boys made me do it mister) but for your info Roger I too play at the D&P every other Wed with Smiley Dave Young on fiddle, on Sat aft in Fagans (except Jul & Aug) and at the Palm Tree in Walkley on Thursdays you can come and hear me sing, drunken or otherwise and any of these venues plus I nip in the odd Mon, Fri and Sat nights to Fagans depending on committments, money etc. Introduce yourself you appear to already know my jumper. Jim

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 05:36 AM

Have a great session at the Jug tonite one and all. Consider yourselves lucky- in Hull we have August recess and both Cottingham and Beverley folk clubs are closed for the month. Les continues at the Kingston on Fridays-what a stalwart!!!!

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Skipjack K8
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 05:42 AM

Chantey, I will have a go at answering your question.

It really depends who's there. As Keith (Selby) has said, the session has it's roots in a group of folkdance musicians, and English tunes are still the core. It is mostly a tune session, but not exclusively, and when a guest singer is there, the song/tune ratio is more in balance. As Mike has pointed out, the room is small and narrow, so not ideal for singers and musos to see, and effectively hear each other. The range of tunes played does depend on who's in, but covers the whole British Isles, with a predominance of Irish, then English, Scottish. There's usually a few good American tunes, too, and maybe the odd French oddity.

Like all sessions, sometimes (mostly) it cooks, and sometimes, it's a turkey. There is no session leader, as such, so the session goes in whatever direction the next player/singer takes it. There is a good mix of instruments, melodeons, accordions, banjos, bouzoukis, fiddles, whistles, guitars and bodhrans, and occasionaly pipes.

Having re-read the above, it exactly reflects just about every session I attend, so all I can say is come and take part, you are a very welcome guest, and you will no doubt wonder what all the long forgotten rancour was about. I look forward to meeting you.

Skipjack

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Patrish(inactive)
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 06:19 AM

I know that fairly drunk jumper..........hic

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: IanC
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 06:42 AM

Anyone wants to hi-jack our session, it's Monday 6th August at "The Bushel and Strike", Ashwell, Herts., England. We'll probably be in the garden so there's plenty of room for anybody who comes. Most of the regulars will probably be on holiday.

Cheers!
Ian

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 06:50 AM

It could be a jumper drinking under an asumed name Patrish

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: GUEST,Patrish
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 06:54 AM

You mean its really a cardy

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 06:57 AM

Sorry I missed the 'do'. I was committed to putting a shed up at my sons place. I know what I would rather have done but promises are promises....:-(

Seeing as I did miss it I hope the sessions do continue as before. I have just read part one and it seems to me that the 'spat' was a flash in the pan and the arguments were an over-reation from a few. I am sure, at least I hope, that things will be sorted out. As Spot said earlier, these things happen at our club as well. I'm sure they occur eveywhere. People come and go. Clubs and sessions, if they are good, evolve, change, and grow but, most of all, survive!

Cheers and hope to be there soon (but not in the next two weeks as I'm on hols - Yahooooo!)

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 07:53 AM

I'm sorry Dave, I don't want to continue but while people are passing opinions like that, I feel forced to do so...

If you read my post where I quote Mike Cahill (which was only about 5 days before the "special night") describing the state of the Jug sessions, you will see that the problem has been on going. Now OK, you could say just one persons over-reaction and even though it matched my feelings and comments you could also think what you like about me but there is one big problem - Bill Sables posts agreeing with Mike's description.

The only way that can be explained is that there were problems in the Jug that had existed for some time and that the majority of the posts in the other thread were painting a rather rosier picture of the night a) to defend Bill Sables and b) to defend the Jug.

Form my side, I do not like to be made out as if I am a grumpy old git or over-reacting when all I was trying to do was paint an honest picture of the night (I wouldn't have even mentioned the Bill Sables and the banjo incident if others had not continued) and trying to work out what was going on as I couldn't work out why my experience on the night seemed to be so different to others- the Dr Doctor Mudcat thread finally made everything clear to me - I wish I had read it earlier.

As for Mike's over reaction, I can quite understand it. Just pause and have a think. Within 5 days of agreeing that a session has problems with numbers and noise, Bill Sables makes a post that had the potential to compound the existing problem. There was no evil intent from Bill but it should be easy to work out why Mike read things the way he did.

I do wish the Jug well and I hope all the regulars enjoy it but I can't help feel that if a normal balance does return, even though I don't agree with his methods, Mike Cahill actualy will deserve some thanks for getting people to stop and think about what was going on.

I doubt if it will work that way though, tonights session will probably be a good one, and Mike Cahill will be some form of demon rather that being someone trying to rescue a session that he cared about. The restored quiet will of course have nothing to do with this thread and of course have always been the normal...

I know this post will make me unpopular but that unfortuanately is a price one pays for honesty.

Hope you all have a great session.

Jon

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 08:37 AM

No need for apologies at all, Jon. Thanks for the post and I'm sure your honesty will not alienate you with anyone - least of all me.

My turn to apologise now - sorry if you thought I was portraying anyone as "a grumpy old git or over-reacting when all I was trying to do was paint an honest picture of the night." I never would - especialy not to someone I had never met in a situation I did not have first hand experience of. And sorry that you felt you had to respond to an insult that was never intended. I am sure if everyone was as honest as you have been , particularly if these things were brought into the open in a face to face meeting over a pint or two of Syd's finest they would be sorted in a trice!

Long may the Jug continue to run and continue to be many things to many people.

To all concerend though. May I paraphrase an old adage. You can please some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time. But you cannot... oh hell. You finish it!:-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: MC Fat
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 09:03 AM

Cardy, Jumper, Pullover who cares not even Jumpers, Cardies,Pullover and Sweatshirts Anonymous it's so cruel.

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Jeri
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 09:26 AM

Dave, you said "the 'spat' was a flash in the pan and the arguments were an over-reation from a few. "

Then Jon posted, indicating he thought there'd been a problem that seemed to be a trend. Despite Mike's overreaction, the frustrations that led to it seem to be real. It doesn't appear Jon responded to any insult - I can't find anything close to an insult. It appears he responded to your belief that Mike's overreation, instead of what prompted it, was the problem.

Apparently, BillS thinks the frustration with the noise is real.

Forget about the "spat" element. Was/is there a problem with noise that interferes with the music? Were the other players who were there happy with the amount of noise?

I wonder if those who dismiss others' perception of problems, whether they agree or not, dismiss the people as well. "If you don't like it, you're not a good enough friend for me to change my behaviour. Go somewhere else."

Sorry - I have no first hand knowledge of what the Jug session is like, but I think I can see what's going on in this and the previous thread pretty clearly.

Jeri, butting in from far, far away.

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: GUEST,Kjell
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 10:09 AM

I wish you would try to accentuate the positive and stop being so negative. Repetition of the same points. The thread was starting to take a positive turn, why rehash the argument here when it has already been stated that talking about it over a pint is probably the best way to sort things out.
I hate the fact that I am psting this, bringing the thread to the top, it should have died days ago. I think there are some people contributing to make this worse. scratching a small itch until ther is a huge open wound. If you care at all about the UK mudcatters then please stop posting negative comments - its all been said. the rest of the healing must be done in person

Kjell

I deliberately did not post before as I had hope that this would die a natural death and life would go on and music would play. I will make a point of coming to the Jug in the next few weeks and having a damn good time

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Tig
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 12:01 PM

If I'm only allowed to the session at the Jug to play - sorry folks, the healing will have to stop!!!!!

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 01:05 PM

who is losing the plot here i thought it was a session not a healing circle no wonder the originator of this thread was upset perhaps he was trying to save something as a guest my advice to you mike is forget the rest find out who agrees with you and leave the rest behind

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: selby
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 01:22 PM

Can we please let this die and let those who are mudcatters who go to the jug resolve this themselves. Keith

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 01:43 PM

WELCOME MC Fat

Hi Jim, if its the same one?
I will try and get along to the D&P one Wednesday night to have a listen
I have already heard Dave Young playing at Kelham Island, he is very very good

I look forward to being part of the audience (is talking permitted?)
Wednesday seems to be a good night, I have heard that some fiddlers play in the small room and they are good, and that Dermot has a good session also, so I guess these must alternate so which ever Wednesday I go should be good

Unfairly drunk would be when you wake up with an eight pint equivalent hangover when you are sure you only drank two

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Roger in Sheffield
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 02:01 PM

I missed the last few posts while colouring in my message
I too thought this thread was taking a turn for the better which is why I posted to it. I see though that the title of this thread is perhaps rubbing salt in and perhaps it would have been better to just call it what music is played in UK sessions
Nice to see Jon is still here

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Peter Kasin
Date: 01 Aug 01 - 10:33 PM

Thank you, Noreen and Skipjack. Looking forward to the trip to England! Hope to meet Mudcatters at the fest.

-chanteyranger

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: GUEST,MC Fat
Date: 02 Aug 01 - 08:06 AM

Roger Should be playing D& P next Wed (8th Aug) but unfortunately have double booked and I'm playing at Broadfield in Abbeydale Road but Dave also plays along with me at the Palm on Thursdays Jim

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 05 Aug 01 - 08:47 PM

Right, we're back now so all this nonsense had better stop!
Firstly let me agree with Selby that the Jug session was indeed born out of an after dance practice wind down and also was more of a sing song than a music session! Locals, foreign nationals and odd passers by were actively encouraged nay forced to join in! Word of mouth spread and before long people were joining us after practices to play or sing along. When the dance side sadly folded the session continued and gradually veered more towards the music rather than the singing (something which I personally regret) It began in the lounge bar which although smaller actually accommodated more people because of its shape and had far better acoustics than the longer bar which is more suitable to a darts game but was the preference of the landlord. (Great bloke - lousy knowledge of acoustics!) When the Jug works well it is excellent and that in my opinion is on the nights when there is a good balance betwen music, singing and conversation. Occasionally we do get a musician who seems to dominate the evening and this can be good or bad and yes there is a problem with people starting a tune at one end and drowning out a song or quite tune at the other. But usually if this is noticed someone will call for hush at the end of the next tune - often me 'cos I'm just naturally bossy!! I wish more people would say "I'm goimg to sing now so please be quiet" because I would like more songs!
As I was not present at the recent 'events' I can make no comment other than that as far as I'm concerned anyone is welcome at the Jug whether they want to sing, play or just listen - I certainly do all three depending on how I feel.
Oh and yes the Jug is often a healing session whether that is Tig sorting out all our strains and sprains or the more spiritual healing that comes from good friends (and I count Mike among them even if I disagree with him on this matter) good music and good conversation
See you all Wednesday

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: GUEST,Mike Cahill
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 03:42 AM

Please read, and digest before commenting

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: GUEST,Eric T Viking-on holiday
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 11:01 AM

I have only a few moments, so I hope things have settled down.I like the jug, the music, the people and the whole evening, some evenings better than others and some worse,but for me just going and playing and maybe singing when I can or want to is enough. I don't expect more.
I hope it's still going strong when I get back to see you and all the people I know as my friends are still around, mudcatters or not. ,p>peace

Eric

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: GUEST,fiddlesticks
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 11:21 AM

As Mike says, please digest carefully, but make sure you know how this started.click Sometimes the rhetoric obscures the initial issue.

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 02:39 PM

what is there to digest looks pretty ok yo me

Subject: RE: Special Jug Night part 2
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 31 Aug 01 - 01:31 PM

I finally got round to visiting the Jug on Wednesday, it is a really good pub, I met a few more Catters (Eric The Viking, Ian Stephenson, Jellybeam etc), I met Syd and Val. Everybody I met was really friendly, and I will be going back again, although the music room is smaller than i expected, so I will be the first to admit that me taking a busload of Hull Catters there would not be a good idea.I think we should go 2 or 3 at a time, and we could maybe have a Mudcat night there one night, maybe on a Monday or a Tuesday.I really enjoyed the music, can't comment on the beer yet as I was driving but the Coke was nice.john

PS. Tig, thanks for healing my knee.