Tune Req: Jack in/on/of the Green

Subject: Jack in the Green
From: Ellen
Date: 16 Jan 98 - 03:48 AM

If someone has a MIDI file or gif of the music to the traditional Jack in the Green, I'll be your best friend!

Subject: RE: Jack in the Green
From: Bruce O.
Date: 16 Jan 98 - 11:12 AM

Are you sure that's the one you want? There are several old tunes of "Jack in/ on/ of the Green". Most are dance tunes. Can you give any further description of it? Will and ABC do?

Subject: RE: Jack in the Green
From: Barry
Date: 16 Jan 98 - 01:03 PM

Ellen, I don't know how to do tunes, sorry, this is so some of those that know how to do the music & are familar with your request can post it. I didn't see this in the DT if anyone wants the rest of it let me know & I'll post it. Good luck, Barry

Subject: RE: Jack in the Green
From: Bruce O.
Date: 16 Jan 98 - 01:12 PM

Jack of the Green; Oswald's Caledonian Pocket Companion, bk, 2, p.2, c 1745
Jack of the Green; C & S Thompson's 120 hornpipes, c 1775, p. 7:
Jack on the Green; Walsh's Caledonian Country Dances, I, 33, c 1734: Jack on the Green; Bodleian Young MS, 1734: Jack on the Green; Rutherford's 1st coll'n of 200 Country dances, c 1756, 32: Jack on the Green; Thompsons' 1st collecion of 200 country dances, c 1758, 92:
Jack on the Green; O'Neill's Music of Ireland #1149.
Jack o' the Green; Folger Shakespeare Lib. MS, c 1760:
Jack on the Green; Rileys' Flute Melodies, I, 83, 1814:
Jack on ye Green [I]; BL MS Add'l 23971 39b (c 1770):
Jack on ye Green [II]; BL MS Add'l2 3971 100b (c 1770):
Jack in the Green Irish; O'Farrell's Pocket Companion, II 70 (c 1810), Jack in the Green; Haverty's 'One Hundred Irish Airs, 2nd series, #124, (1859): Jack in the Green; Levy's Dance Music of Ireland, I, 1 (1858).

I don't have copies of all of these.

Subject: RE: Jack in the Green
From: Ellen
Date: 16 Jan 98 - 07:15 PM

Ab ABC would be fine, if there is (as I believe) a program available to convert it to MIDI>

Subject: RE: Jack in the Green
From: Bruce O.
Date: 18 Jan 98 - 01:52 PM

According to the song "Jack of the Green" in Holloway and Black's Later 'English Broadside Ballads', I, #58, to dance "Jack on the Green" was to have sexual intercourse. See also "Dance, dandirly Dan", "The Shaking of the Sheets", and "Reel of Stunpie" for same 'dance'.

Subject: RE: Jack in the Green
From: Ellen
Date: 18 Jan 98 - 03:17 PM

Figures somebody would come up with that. A web search will show the original meanings, which have to do with growth, crops and harvest. But it's a pagan meaning, so naturally, somebody would come up with such a ridiculous idea.

Subject: RE: Jack in the Green
From: Bruce O.
Date: 18 Jan 98 - 05:28 PM

Such pagans symbols were not misunderstood by the masses. See the dance around the May-pole, ZN1553 in the broadside index.

Subject: add: Jack in the Green^^^
From: Barry
Date: 18 Jan 98 - 10:31 PM

Here's one version of Jack-In-The-Green

[Now winter is over I'm happy to say
And we've all met again in our ribbons so gay
And we've all met again on the first day of spring
To go about dancing with Jack-In-The-Green
Jack in the green (2X) repeat last line]

[Now jack in the green is a very strange thing
Though he dies every autum he's born every spring
And each year on his birthday wewill dance in the streets
And in return Jack he will ripen our wheat]

[With his mantle he'll cover the trees that are bare
Our gardens he'll trim with his jacket so fair
But our fields he will sow with the hair of his head
And our grain it will ripen till ol Jack is dead]

[Now the sun is half up & betokens the hour
That the children arrine with their garlands of flowers
So now let the music & the dancing begin
And touch the good heart of young Jack in the Green]

I've tried to find a sexual connection to Jack, but with no luck. I've checked him out from his disapperence at the turn of this century back to his apperence around the late 18th century. His origins some how are connected to May Pole celebrations where there are fertility connections but there again I found a lack of sexual rites, even as far back as the Romans & their worship of the Goddess Flora, who'd be the reciepent of a cut tree adorned with ribbons & flowers. I only found Jack to be bound inside a wicker frame covered with holly & ivy & then crowned with ribbons & flowers & paraded about, begging in wren or mummer fashion . I did find connections between fertility rites & sexual activity, some including many of the virgins of both sexs from the villages, going out & fertilizing the barren ground, but none had to do with Jack or the May pole.
Barry

---

Note: Jack IN the Green was written & copyrighted by Martin Graebe in 1972. These lyrics are very similar to those posted by Graebe on his Website, http://www.btinternet.com/~greenjack/Jack.PDF.
-Joe Offer-^^^

Subject: RE: Jack in the Green
From: Ellen
Date: 18 Jan 98 - 11:20 PM

Barry, yes, that's the lyrics I have. Now, if I only had the tune.

I haven't looked, but have never heard of a sexual connection. Fertility, yes, but that isn't necessarily sexual.

Subject: RE: Jack in the Green
From: Ellen
Date: 18 Jan 98 - 11:23 PM

Bruce, I don't deny the meaning of the May Pole, it's the comment about the meaning of "Jack in the Green" that I'm talking about.

We pagans know a lot about our own symbolism.

Subject: RE: Jack in the Green
From: Barry
Date: 18 Jan 98 - 11:31 PM

Sorry Ellen, I could sing it for ya, but I don't know the fisrt thing about how to write it out much less figure out how to go about putting it up on the screen. I'm lucky enough to be singing never mind knowing what I'm doing, but there's a few out there that know these things & can do them, maybe you'll get one that knows the tune. Good luck. Barry

Subject: RE: Jack in the Green
From: Bo
Date: 19 Jan 98 - 05:19 AM

Maypole, fertility, sexuality--

I find this such a sensual, fun celebration.....

I agree with you Ellen that it doesnt HAVE TO enclude sexuality. I'm sure the majority of people did not give themselves over to wild orgies every time someone mentioned fertility. Still, I can't help but think that the miracle of crops that grow every year from just cold earth was a good metaphor for the deep resilient joy we human beings get from randyness, love play, passion, and wakenning our personal cold clay (so to speak).

Modern discussion of this sort of thing is so tainted by desperation, prudishness, and an inability to celebrate fertility (IMHO). Sex of course, but life was the important thing!

Bo

Subject: RE: Jack in the Green
From: Bruce O.
Date: 19 Jan 98 - 11:06 AM

While we are on pagan symbolism, does anyone here know anything about the lascivious female poses of the cravings called 'Sheila na gigs' found on old Irish churches? It is said they were first commented on in 1842. "Sheila na Gigg" was an Irish tune of the 18th century (also called "Shilling a Jig" on the bigger island). Any connection between tune and carvings? Any song for the tune?

Subject: Tune Add: JACK ON THE GREEN /...IN THE GREEN/...OF
From: Bruce O.
Date: 19 Jan 98 - 12:02 PM

Any of these sound familiar?

X:1
T:Jack on the Green
N:Riley's Flute Melodies, c 1816
L:1/8
M:6/8
K:G
g2b(B2d)|(c2e) (A2c)|(B2d) cAF|G3G3|(g2b) (B2d)|\
(^c2e)(a2g)|fed AB^c|d3D3::(d3B)(b2B)|(c2A)(a2c)|\
Bdg dBG|F2G AGD|(g2b)(g2d)|(e2g)(e2c)|(B2d) cAF|G3G3|]

X:2
T:Jack in the Green
N:Levy's 'Dance Music of Ireland' (1858)
N:Same as "Jack on the Green" in
N:O'Neill's 'Music of Ireland', #1149
L:1/8
M:9/8
K:G
d|g2g gfg efg|a2a abg fed| g2g gfg e3|def gdc BAG::\
F2AG2BA2d|dcd ABc BAG|F2AG2BA2d|def gdc BAG:|]

X:3
T:Jack of the Green
N:Oswald's CPC, bk. 12, c 1760
L:1/8
M:9/8
K:D
C2E (D/2E/2F)C E3|A3E2A~F2D|C2E(D/2E/2F)CE3|\d3D2A~F2D::\
def efg fed|e3E2A~F2D|def efg fef|d3D2Af2D:|]

Subject: Lyr Add: JACK OF THE GREEN^^
From: Bruce O.
Date: 19 Jan 98 - 01:08 PM

[Broadside from the Madden collection, reprinted in Holloway and Black's 'Later English Broadside Ballads', I, #58, p. 135, 1975]

JACK OF THE GREEN

It was in the month of May, when flowers were seen,
I saw a bonny lass with Jack upon the Green,
O how they hugg'd and kist, her call'd her his delight,
And told her, if she pleas'd, he would lie with her all night.

Fie young man, said she, your words do me affright,
To think that you should crave my maidenhead to-night,
I'd not for all the world with any man be seen,
My mammy she would say, we danc'd Jack on the Green.

He said, my joy, my only dear, I'll give you guineas two,
To grant me my request, all night to lie with you,
I will young man, said she, you creep behind the screen,
Whem my mammy is gone to bed, we'll dance Jack on the Green.

O then this couple parted, rejoicing she went home,
To think what sport she'd have, with her own dear John,
She kept her mammy in talk, Jack creeps behind the screen,
When her mamma was gone to bed, they danc'd Jack on the Green.

This couple fell to work, thinking they were not seen,
Whilst she learn'd these few steps, with Jack upon the Green,
Her mamma got out of bed, and by Jack was not seen,
And with an old besom's head she beat Jack off the Green.

Then Jack began to frown at feeling of the stick,
The cunning jad lay down, pretending to be sick,
Her mamma call'd her whore and sorry dirty quaen,
For learning those few steps with Jack upon the green.

Her mamma she laid on, she brake the besom's tail,
Then to get out of doors young Jack he did prevail,
He made a solemn vow he'd never more be seen
Along with a bonny lass, to dance Jack upon the Green.

I have two old tunes, but no song called "Kiss me quick, my mother's coming". Don't think that "Kissing at Window" (not in DT?) was just that. It's based on an old tale like our song above, but when mother came the young man hid in the WC. When he felt a cough coming on, in order to not be heard he stuck his head into the close-stool, and it was the toilet seat, not a window frame, around his neck as he off ran down the street.

[Bodleian MS Eng. poet. f. 25, fol. 67v. c 1615. Cf. 'Pepys Ballads', I, 326. Unfortunately, no tune.]

Tee hee, nay fye love, Lord wt do you meane
Some body will spye us, in faith we are seen
Now Love will yow kisse me, fye fye Love away
The aire is a telltale, and it will us betray
Nay fie Love, away Love, I pray you be gone
My mother knows nothing, but that I'me alone.

Heigh, heigh, my harte, a kisse for feare of ye worst
I pray you be quiet, I thinke yow're abrust
With nothing content, such can yow not rest
Nay looke now, hold off, or in faith yow had best
Harke some bodye calls me, I pray you begone,
My mother knows nothing, but that I'me alone.

So so for shame leave, thy's lost yowr owen guise
Truth next time I meet you, I sel be more prise
yow shall not come neer me, well since it is past
I'le never more meet yow, this shall be the last
Reply not, be silent, I pray yow begone,
My mother knows nothing, but that I'me alone.

^^

Subject: Lyr Add: JACK IN THE GREEN (Martin Graebe)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 16 Dec 01 - 05:23 PM

In another thread, Martin Graebe mentioned that one of his songs had been posted here and identified as "traditional." I hope this corrects that matter. Sorry about the confusion, Martin.
-Joe Offer-

---

JACK IN THE GREEN
(Martin Graebe)

1. Now winter is over I'm happy to say
And we're all met again in our ribbons so gay
And we're all met again, to rejoice in the spring
And to go about dancing with Jack in the Green
Jack in the Green, Jack in the Green
And we'll all dance each springtime with Jack in the Green

2. Now Jack in the Green is a very strange man
Though he dies every autumn, he's born every spring
And each year on his birthday, we will dance through the street
And in return Jacky will ripen our wheat
Jack in the Green, Jack in the Green
And we'll all dance each springtime with Jack in the Green

3. Now all you young maidens I'd have you beware
Of touching young Jack, for there's strange powers there.
For if you but touch him, there is many will tell
Like the wheat in our fields so your belly will swell.
Jack in the Green, Jack in the Green
And we'll all dance each springtime with Jack in the Green

4. With his mantle he'll cover the trees that are bare
Our gardens he'll trim with his jacket so fair
But our fields he will sow with the hair on his head
And our grain it will ripen till old Jack is dead
Jack in the Green, Jack in the Green
And we'll all dance each springtime with Jack in the Green

5. Now the sun is half up and it signals the hour
That the children arrive with their garlands of flowers
So now let the music and dancing begin
And touch the good heart of young Jack in the Green
Jack in the Green, Jack in the Green
And we'll all dance each springtime with Jack in the Green


Jack in the Green was written & copyrighted by Martin Graebe in 1972. BF
This is the original version of the song, as posted by Graebe on his Website, http://www.btinternet.com/~greenjack.


Graebe's notes: This song was written when Cherri and I were living to the east of Exeter in the area that is marked on the Ordnance Survey map as "Jack in the Green." We were also drinking fairly often in the pub of the same name and the connection led to the above bit of fantasy based on traditional themes. A number of people have told me at different times that they have heard "Jack in the Green" described as a traditional song. It was the first of my songs to turn up on the Internet, where it was described on the Digital Tradition database as a traditional song. Most recently, someone told me about an American CD of pagan music that includes Jack as an example of a traditional pagan song from the British Isles.

Subject: RE: Jack in the Green
From: GUEST,MCP
Date: 16 Dec 01 - 07:08 PM

Bruce O. The Sheilas were spread more widely than just Ireland - there are a good sprinkling of them in England and France too. An Irish antiquary in the early 1840s researched the one at Rochestown (Co.Tipperary, Ireland) was told it was a 'Sheela-na-gig) and that gave rise to the term being applied to them. There was also a George Lewis lithograph of the Kilpeck (Herefordshire, England) one in 1840 but there are certainly references to them from the 18th century (and earlier I think). Antiquarian interest was certainly aroused in the mid 19th century.

The Witch On The Wall by Jorgen Andersen has information on the derivation: "Sheela-na-gig" has become applied as a type-name by researchers, but there is no evidence that it was ever a widespread, popular name for the figures...the name in Irish "is simply a term for an immodest woman"...Sheela-na-gig in 19th century Ireland was a term for females, not for figures, and it meant what it says, 'Sheela-of-the-paps'.

With reference to the tune then it may refer to "an immodest woman", but probably no to the figure.

Mick

Subject: Lyr Add: THE OLD SONG (JACK ON THE GREEN)^^
From: Snuffy
Date: 16 Dec 01 - 08:10 PM

Ih've often wondered what the reference to Jack in the Green in this song was about.

THE OLD SONG (JACK ON THE GREEN)

If you listen to me I will sing of a spree
That happened a year or two back,
Concerning a gal they call Calico Sal
And a fellow named bendy-legged Jack.
Trala, trala, tra-lalala-la
Tra-lalala-lalala-la.
Then came the day, they were decked out so gay,
Jack wore his velveteens
Sal wore a dress that was worn by Black Bess
When she capered with Jack-on-the-Green.

Home they went on punishment bent.
They swore they'd pitch into the grub.
They had plenty of scran in an old brown pan
And a plate of pea soup in a tub.

From Songs sung in Suffolk, Vol 3. Veteran Tapes VT103. (Field recordings 1985-87 by John Howson). Sung by Tom Smith of Thorpe Morieux, Suffolk.

WassaiL! V^^