Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: GUEST,ShinyAeon
Date: 27 Jul 17 - 12:54 PM

I heard on "Doctor in the House ", an old British sitcom about med students, a parody version called "Green Grow the Patients O" that I'd dearly love to see the lyrics for...

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Dec 13 - 04:58 PM

On p. 599 "H. H." attests to having heard the song "as a boy."

Naturally, he doesn't bother to tell us when or where. He gives the pattern ("sung as a monotone")as,

What shall we sing O?
We will [sic] sing the ones O
One is one, etc.

Then:

What shall we sing O?
We will sing the twos O

...and so on to twelve, "always repeating the numbers all back to one." The list posted by Q represents the final "stanza."

Also on p. 599, J. H. Payne of Kildare Gardens reports a quite similar song as having been sung by "the children at Beckington, Somerset, in 1867. Payne's finale:

Twelve is the ring of bells,
Eleven is the gate of heaven,
Ten is Our Lady's hen,
Nine is the water wine,
Eight is the crooked straight,
Seven is the bread of leaven,
Six is the crucifix,
Five is the man alive,
Four is the open door,
Three is the Trinity,
Two is the Jewry,
One they do call the Righteous Man,
Save poor souls
To rest, Amen.

Payne cannot explain "Ten is Our Lady's hen." He wonders aloud if it could have anything to do with the saying, "As nice as a nun's hen."

Which is a new one on me. Unlike in the better-known song, the numbers here are given rhymes.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Dec 13 - 02:34 PM

Note to version by "H. H.":

I would like to see the preceding page, 599, which may have introductory notes to "The Twelve Apostles," p. 600. I am not a member and cannot bring up the articles in this Oxford journal.

The "green-o" lines seem to have been added later; 20th C.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Dec 13 - 02:18 PM

RAF version not found in "Airman's Song Book," 1967, C. H. Ward-Jackson and Leighton Lewis, nor in "Kiss Me Goodnight, Sergeant Major," 1973, edited by Martin Page.

A version of the song appeared in print in 1868, in the form of "The Twelve Apostles," Notes and Queries, Dec. 26, '68, p. 600.

Lyr. Add: THE TWELVE APOSTLES
"H. H.;"

Twelve, twelve apostles,
Eleven arch-angels,
Ten ten commandments,
Nine bright shiners,
Eight Gabriel angels,
Seven were the stars of heaven,
Six broad waters,
Five tumblers on a barrel,
And four gospel writers.
Three three divers,
Two two lily white boys
One is one and all alone,
And evermore shall be so.

"H. H." adds, .... It was the repetition that, as a child,, pleased me-..."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 15 Dec 13 - 12:23 PM

In "REd Fly the Banners", I've always liked the line
"Two, two the opposites, interpenetrating-O"

dialectically satisfying

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: Lighter
Date: 15 Dec 13 - 09:06 AM

Any more RAF/RN verses?

Seems like you could march to it just as well as to "Old King Cole."

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: GUEST,Mike Yates
Date: 15 Dec 13 - 06:05 AM

I'm quite intrigued by the so-called "Pagan" version. Can anyone say if this is actually old, or, as I suspect, a recent composition by some "New Age" Pagans (or whatever they like to call themselves). Does anyone know any actual publication dates for these versions? I recall once being told that Ewan MacColl had said that the line "The playing of the merry organ" in "The Holly and the Ivy" was originally "The playing of the merry old Gods". Though I find it hard to believe that he would have said such a thing!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 15 Dec 13 - 05:01 AM

Similar songs exist in many languages and cultures. The genre is called "numerology" (not symbolism) and must be considered "pagan" even if it contains items from the Bible. Not "garbled nonsense" though, mostly.

Therefore, the Red Banner version quoted above, which I just saw for the first time, is pretty amusing. Darwin, Einstein, and Freud would not feel flattered at all. Marx and Engels neither, although they sometimes did believe in a sort of esoteric teleology analogous to Christian scholastic tradition, and thus must not be surprised to be seized by numerologists. The Soviet leaders appreciated any sort of ovation.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: Tradsinger
Date: 15 Dec 13 - 03:44 AM

Here is a Gloucestershire version. I sang this the other night and someone asked me what the symbolism in it was. He seemed a little disappointed when I told him that apart from verses 4, 10 and 12, the song is garbled nonesense. Moral - don't look for symbolism when it's not there!

Tradsinger

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: GUEST,Priestess Pamela
Date: 15 Dec 13 - 12:33 AM

We sing "7 for the portals between the worlds" which refer to the seven chakras, energy centers in our body. Thanks for posting the lyrics to this! Blessed Be!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 08 Sep 12 - 06:33 AM

It doesn't really mean anything Guest,Rosie, but like most of this stuff anybody can believe it means anything at all - pick something of your own it will be just as valid as anyone elses

Best wishes

L in C#

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: GUEST,Rosie
Date: 07 Sep 12 - 11:58 PM

What does "Seven for the gates between the worlds" mean?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: GUEST
Date: 18 May 12 - 10:11 PM

My dad was in the RAF. We used to sing this song but the only lines I remember are:
Three - three the sergeant(s)
Two - two apprentice's wings, dressed in black and green-oh
One is on and all along (alone) and ever more shall be so.

One of the lines has the phrase "for a packet of Player's" which, obviously refers to the cost of cigarettes in the day.

Wish I could remember the whole thing. (Wish Dad was still here.)

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Jan 12 - 03:20 PM

Evidently there were/are RAF/RN versions.

Does anyone know any of these?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green Grow the Rushes - pagan version
From: GUEST,Herb M
Date: 02 Jan 11 - 03:09 PM

There's a bit on the "Pagan" version at http://www.cyberwitch.com/Wychwood/Temple/songOfTheFaith.htm

---

Robert Cochrane said, "My religious beliefs are found in an ancient song, 'Green Grow the Rushes-O'". He identified this as an archers song from the middle ages. It is appropriate, since 1734 is a Tradition of Riddles, that we have been exploring the possible interpretations of the thirteen verses since Cochrane's death in 1966 (nearly thirty years!) . "Green Grow the Rushes-O" is a counting or teaching song of the type that is called a "chant of the creed". It is alternately entitled "The Dilly Song." Many versions of the song exist, in many parts of the world, and no one is quite sure of its origins. The followers of Mohammed have a version and Jewish children sing one at Passover. There are many Christianized versions, but according to "Comparative Studies in Nursery Rhymes", (Lina Eckenstien, 1906)" no one knows whether the Breton is based on the Christian, or the Christian on the Hebrew, or how these stand in relation to the various 'heathen' chants." The following is the version given to Joseph Wilson by his first teacher. Green Grow the Rushes-O I’ll sing you One-O Green Grow The Rushes-O What is your One-O? Green Grow The Rushes-O One is One and All Alone, And ever more shall be so! I’ll sing you Two-O Green Grow the Rushes-O What is your Two-O? Green Grow The Rushes-O! Two, two, the Lily and the Rose That shine both red and green-O. One iis One and All Alone, And ever more shall be so! Three, three the Rivals Four for the Four Wind-Makers Five for the Symbol at my Door Six for the Lady’s Bower Seven for the Stars of Heaven Eight for the April Rainers Nine for the Nine Bright Shiners Ten for The Lady’s Girdle Eleven Maidens in a Dance Twelve for the Wren in Ivy I’ll sing you Thirteen-O Green Grow the Rushes-O What is your Thirteen-O? ‘....................................’ (Notes by Doug and Sandy Kopf, Coven Ashesh Hekat)

Subject: RE: Req: Green grow the rushes - pagan version
From: GUEST,James H
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 08:07 AM

I will sing you 12-o,
Green grow the rushes o,
What is your 12-o ?
12 are the 12 Apostles
11 are the 11 who went to heaven
10 are the 10 Commandments,
9 are the 9 bright shiners
8 are the April rainers,
7 are the 7 stars in the sky,
6 are the 6 proud walkers,
5 for the symbols at your door &
4 for the Gospel makers,
3 three, the rivals
2 two, the lily white boys
clothed all in green-o
and 1 is 1 and all alone and ever more shall be so


is the version that I used to sing as a kid.

Subject: RE: Req: Green grow the rushes - pagan version
From: Mo the caller
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 07:13 AM

11 the 11 that went to heaven (12 - Judas, I suppose)
7 the 7 stars in the sky

Subject: RE: Req: Green grow the rushes - pagan version
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 04:48 AM

That's pretty much the Christian version, which is traditional, rather than any so-called 'Pagan' versions, which like modern Paganism itself is made up by the Pagans as they go along (see above).

Did your father actually sing 'Four for the Cob Stone makers' ? Or is that a choice Mondegreen?

Subject: RE: Req: Green grow the rushes - pagan version
From: GUEST,abonaroo
Date: 11 Dec 07 - 12:51 AM

my father & i would sing it in the 50s but I can not remember 11 & 9, also with the mention of apostles & commandments I don't know how pagan it is.....he was quite the athiest; though as a child he was brought up Catholic:

I will sing you 12-0 green grow the rushes 0 what is your 12-0 ?
12 are the 12 Apostles
11 are the 11
10 are the 10 Commandments,
9 are the
8 are the 8 Bold Rangers,
7 are the 7 that went to Heaven
6 are the 6 straight walkers,
5 is the symbol at your door &
4 for the cob stone makers,
3 three for the rivals
2 two for the lily white boys
clothe your door in green-eee-0
and 1 is 1 and all alone and ever more shall be so.

Subject: RE: Req: Green grow the rushes - pagan version
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 19 Nov 03 - 06:30 AM

Red Wave the Banners - the Four Great Teachers. The Trots used to sing "Marx, Engels, Lenin, Trotsky", the Maoists "Marx, Engels, Lenin, Mao",. and I used to upset EVERYBODY singing "Marx, Darwin, Einstein, Freud". For some reason Freud used to particularly upset Feminists.

Subject: RE: Req: Green grow the rushes - pagan version
From: Gareth
Date: 18 Nov 03 - 07:07 PM

I missed your post last October - But Belfast "I have been known in times past to sit with my unreconstructed stalinist friends and sing Red Fly the Banners...."

I'am Chuffed !

Gareth

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green grow the rushes - pagan versio
From: belfast
Date: 12 Oct 02 - 11:59 AM

I have been known in times past to sit with my unreconstructed stalinist friends and sing Red Fly the Banners but I have never come across that pagan version of Green Grow the Rushes. It sounds very entertaining but what the hell does it mean? Mind you, being a old-fashioned atheist I assume it's a lot of twaddle. Hope I haven't offended any mystics out there.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green grow the rushes - pagan versio
From: GUEST,(jo)
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 04:30 AM

thanks a lot you folks, I think that first one is the one I heard
or something very close to it
and I love both the others too.

jo

Subject: Lyr Add: RED FLY THE BANNERS OH !
From: Gareth
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 02:24 PM

A version of "Green Grow the Rushes Oh!, sung in leftist circles in London in the 70's. Older than that though, my mother can recall singing something similar in her student days in 1946 – 49. (UCW – Cardiff and Bath teacher Training College)

RED FLY THE BANNERS OH !

I'll sing you one Oh!
Red fly the banners Oh !
What is your One Oh !
One is workers unity ,
And ever more will be so !

Two, Two, the workers hands,
Working for his living Oh !

Three, Three, the rights of man,

Four, for the four great leaders
( perm any four of the following according to dialectical tendency
MARX, LENIN, STALIN, MAO, TROTSKY, BERIA, UNCLE HO, NYE, KROPONTKIN, KEIR HARDY, ( well you can imagine the rest )

Five for the Years of the Five-year plan,

Six for the Tolpuddle martyrs,

Seven for the Stars on Connolly's Flag,

Eight for the Eighth Red Army,

Nine for the days of the General Strike,

Ten for the days that shook the world,

Eleven for the Moscow Dynamo's

And that's the best that I can do !

Gareth

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green grow the rushes - pagan versio
From: Michael in Swansea
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 08:37 AM

And if you click here
you'll find a Norse version

Mike

Subject: Lyr Add: GREEN GROW THE RUSHES-O (Pagan version)
From: katlaughing
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 08:36 AM

Is this the one?

I'll sing you one, oh
GREEN GROW THE RUSHES OH!
AND WHAT IS YOUR ONE, OH?
One is one and all alone and ever more shall be so.

I'll sing you two, oh
GREEN GROW THE RUSHES OH!
AND WHAT IS YOUR TWO, OH?
Two, two, the two-faced God in gold and red and green-oh,
One is one and all alone, and ever more shall be so.

I'll sing you three, oh
GREEN GROW THE RUSHES OH!
AND WHAT IS YOUR THREE, OH?
Three, the Triple Goddess,
Two, two, the two-faced God in gold and red and green, oh,
One is one and all alone, and ever more shall be so.

...

I'll sing you thirteen, oh
GREEN GROW THE RUSHES OH!
AND WHAT IS YOUR THIRTEEN, OH?
Thirteen rounds of the silvery wheel,
Twelve for the heavenly augurs,
One and one for the Year-King's reign,
Ten for the Celtic Reading,
Nine for the nine-foot circle,
Eight for the eight great Sabbats,
Seven for the Gates between the Worlds,
Six for the Book of Changes
Five for the fiery points of light,
Four for the Guardian Towers.
Three, the Triple Goddess,
Two, two, the two-faced God in gold and red and green, oh,
One is one and all alone, and ever more shall be so.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Green grow the rushes - pagan versio
From: Michael in Swansea
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 08:33 AM

Jo,
Is this what you want?

I'll sing you 13 oh
Green Grow the rushes oh
What is your 13 oh?
13 rounds of the silvery wheel
12 for the heavenly augers
One and one for the Year-King's reign
10 for the Celtic reading
9 for the 9 foot circle
8 for the 8 great Sabbats
7 for the gates between the worlds
6 for the book of changes
5 for the fiery points of light
4 for the Guardian Towers
3 the Triple Goddess
2 two the two faced God in gold and red and green oh
1 is one and all alone and ever more shall be so

Mike

Subject: Green grow the rushes - pagan version
From: GUEST,(jo)
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 07:39 AM

reading one of the other threads reminded me
Ive been meaning to track down this in a while

I only ever heard it once, all i remember is

Two for the horn-ed God, clothed all in green-oh
One is one and all is one and ever more shall be so

Anyone know the rest?
Cheers

jo