Posting as merely 'GUEST'

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST,traddles
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 06:51 PM

Noreen said in one of her posts

"I strongly disagree, Traddles. It is a very rare occasion that anyone gets flamed here. I have been a member for over a year, express myself civilly and have never been flamed, and am not in fear of being flamed. It is the people who come here to cause trouble who find it."

Granted Noreen, much of the worst and most hurtful flaming took place before you came here, but I've done some checking and there have been quite a number of recent examples. Perhaps you haven't visited those particular threads. There have certainly been enough flames to make Mudcatters who don't possess really thick skins think twice whenever they feel like giving an opinion. In almost every case, what prompted the flaming would seem to be simply someone else being irritated by the poster herself/himself. In no instance was the flamee being nasty before the attack. I think it may be a case of familiarity breeding contempt. I find some people here pretty irritating as well, but what's the difference between that and the 3D communities we live in? I simply don't think that being irritated by someone gives us a license to harrass them anonymously. Having said that, I can't for the life of me see why someone who's just giving an opinion or taking part in a discussion POLITELY need identify themself. Maybe they've been flamed recently and simply don't want their very presence in a thread to spark a repeat attack. It happens. Also, they simply may not be that adept at coming up with a quick nickname.

Harpgirl's suggestion IS brilliant. Should solve the problem totally don't you think?

GUEST: Aug.8, 1:10PM, Maybe you can start your tally again from here. (BG)

traddles

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 06:43 PM

I get "more respect"

Than most would expect

When I post....as the anonymous GUEST.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 03:36 PM

He/She is mad! I can just imagine him/her walking around with a paper bag on their head so nobody can see who they are!

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Sourdough
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 03:26 PM

John in Hull -

Do you think he means it?

Isn't there somethng odd about being ignored by a totally unknown figure who insists on standing in the shade in the middle of a moonless night to make sure that no one can track him down and do unspeakable things to his person?

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 01:59 PM

Whatever.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 01:57 PM

Ignore him/her? Fat chance of that with this group.

OTOH, its clear the guests have largely decided to do the mature thing, and ignore the lot of you.

Numbers don't lie...

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: mousethief
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 01:47 PM

Her.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 01:41 PM

Lets just ignore him.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Sourdough
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 01:24 PM

Catspaw:

Tuprnip Guest has gone on to coding posts in order to come up with statistics - very scientific. I don't think he's done much to (im)prove, or even clarify, his position.

Who are the Guests (plural) he is referring to? I have noticed that there are a number of Guests on threads with content who are happy to participate in Mudcat. They choose names to go along with "Guest" so we know it is not the determinedly anonmous poster who's unrelieved negativity has appartently made it necessary for him to go top extreme lengths to hide any hint of his identity. I don't see any sign that Guests are unwelcome, I think that aggessively rude people might find they are less apprecited than those Guests with something to add to Mudcat.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 01:10 PM

I note that since 5pm Mudcat time on August 6th (Guest, traddles message), there has been a marked decline in guest participation in this thread.

A quick count shows 38 messages from Mudcat members (the usual suspects) flaming every guest post, and a whopping 7 messages from guests.

So for the past 2 days, Mudcat sycophants have been flaming away at "mere guests".

And we are supposed to presume, by this behavior, that it is the guests who have a problem?

Looks to me like Mudcat has become a nesting ground for net nuts.

The personalities of the members certainly fit the MO.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: catspaw49
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 12:54 PM

Bless me Turnip for I have sinned. I now freely turn my entire life over to you and have taken all of your advice so find something else to harp on huh? I am throwing away all of our beds and sleeping on the floor, and soon the guy will be done bricking up the closets. I have arranged to change my e-mail on a regular basis and can now be found at [e-mail]. Please forward all correspondence to this e-mail immediately before it changes in 37 minutes.

I have lined the walls with mirrors so no one can sneak up on me and have hired an agency to follow me in case someone else is following me. Tomorrow I will hire another PI to track them and another to follow him. I'll be tracking the last guy and when we get the circle small enough, we'll hold a circle jerk in your honor. We'll send you pictures if you are still using the e-mail addy of [e-mail].

Many thanks for straightening out my life.

ex-Spaw, now Turnip Disciple#1

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Sourdough
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 12:36 PM

John,

See, I think you hit a little too close to home.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 08:41 AM

As another guest noted, when the members start screaming about how insane the guest is, the conversation is over.

Too bad people here are so paranoid about anonymous guests, they can't even engage in a civil dialog about Internet security and privacy issues.

Worse than pathetic, really.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 01:30 AM

Guest-Even if I told you my bank password, surely if you were going to rob me you would need,
1 My full name
2 My full adress
3 My Bank's name
4 My Bank account number
5 The security question the bank ask me!
But like everybody else here I give up, this whole conversation is pontless.

john in hull (Yorkshire!)

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 01:15 AM

I thought I was mad, This guy is a bloody nutcase!

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Sourdough
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 01:09 AM

John in Hull -

I've noticed that, too. As Turnip Guest tries to make his point more clearly, he kind of unravels his own logic and sounds less in control of his personal demons. He must make his own life fairly uncomfortable. Well, I know my own demons get unruly at times.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 12:56 AM

Guest- I DO NOT use the same password here as I do at the bank! (At the moment I am 23 pounds overdrawn). The more I read your posts the more convinced I am, that you need specialist help. I once met a guy who was convinced "The Russians" were putting rays into his head, he was very wary of telling anyone his name as well, although I think it was Terry. Seriously Guest, get some help.john

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: harpgirl
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 12:41 AM

...and that is why I lovingly refer to her as "Scorch!"

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Sorcha
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 12:24 AM

Me too, Bill D.....Guest, honey, you want to stalk me? Go ahead......the info is all here, but be warned that I have a .41 Magnum and I would not hesitate to use it on an intruder.

I also have pretty good Internet and telephone research skills, plus good connections and a police Lt. for a husband......I know how to find you if you call or show up, and I know what to do if you do..........garunteed you will lose in the long run,sweetie.

If all you want to do is try to scare me on the Internet, it isn't going to work.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Sourdough
Date: 08 Aug 01 - 12:17 AM

Ah, Turnip,

If you could just read your posts as others read them.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 11:33 PM

(BTW...I had 2 beers tonight, and my inhibitions are a bit 'loose', shall we say)

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 11:31 PM

quote: PIFFLE! unquote...

yes, MUDCAT indexes it's own posts, and you CAN look at every post Bill D has made WITHIN MUDCAT...but if I hadn't made my address, real name and email easily accessible, you couldn't find me....

the only way to trace a person who posts in a chat room is to find the IP number(which is easily hidden if you need to), then convince that ISP that you have a VERY good reason to know who posted at that time..(court order)..then spend weeks as the ISP tried to sift thru millions of relevant log-ins...etc...

READ MY LIPS...there is no " software used to monitor where a person goes on-line, and the information trail they leave.", except for certain cookies and THEY don't identify YOU...they only establish a pattern.....

it is fine to be aware of security...I do it myself with two firewalls which kill cookies and javascripts. But it is ludicrous...let me repeat..LUDICROUS... to imagine that you could be 'found' thru any postings to the Mudcat if you choose not to...unless you simply leave clues.

Oh, crap....why DO I bother!...I used to know a college professor who was convinced the Psych. Dept. was doing illegal experiments on him...including pissing in his car battery!..He was always polite to me, but made it clear he didn't really trust even me!...Died believing *they* were after him! (His name was Hugh Walpole..wrote a book called "Semantics"

so,my dear Turnip.....you have never said WHY anyone might want to 'trace' you, you have only expressed concern that they 'might'...I repeat ..PIFFLE.....I give up...I surrender...there IS no way to reason with you, and you DO NOT CARE to know the truth of it all.....you are happy in your carefully constructed coocoon of anonmity, which no one wanted in anyway.

you want more discussion? Get an anonymous web-based email like Hotmail,(you DON'T have to give a real name or address) and email me.. [e-mail]..(you won't...but...)

*sigh*

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 11:12 PM

John in Hull,

And if you wish to remain blissfully ignorant of the fact that the security issues I'm speaking of don't just include what you say, but the fact that you use similar passwords to log onto your bank account, to use your VISA card to make Internet purchases, and to access your email account or web site accounts, you have every right to do so.

No law against choosing to deny reality.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 10:26 PM

LOL Spaw!
Guest-As harpgirl pointed out if anyone wants to see what I have written, all they need to do is click on my name, a screen pops up that shows everything I have ever written here, I have no problem with this whatsoever, and really can't see why anyone would.

john in hull
East Yorkshire
HU3 1LA

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 10:07 PM

...wrong, wooden bowl breath!!!*wink*

I can get right to my cumulative posting list with my handle and so can everyone else. The forum is indexed all over the web...but I love you anyway...harpgirl

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST,Immanuel Kant but Kubla Khan
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 10:05 PM

Spaw's very witty and insightful heap of dung shows all guests the perils of posting without a recognizable handle. You become a "legitimate" target for the abuse of regular members. However thoughtful or intelligent your posting you may at any time be called immoral, a coward or turd simply for not having a name. The abuse will be heaped on you by people who would not think of judging a live person face to face by the colour of their skin or the tones of their accent but will do it when they cannot see a "Name". The same people who would fight to keep the right to a secret ballot in decisions of importance in their country. Guests are the Mudcat scapegoats and those who most need help are the ones who so gleefully suggest others seek it.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 08:35 PM

Lemmee post it here too......

We have a very regular Guest.....goes by the handle "Russ"......Now someone might steal his Guest ID, but he prefers to remain as a Guest for other reasons, whatever they are........Fine with me. Because he does this, I frankly consider him a member. I can't for the life of me see the problem in maintaining a standard ID unless your desire is to flame or troll. Strikes me as an easy thing to do and unless you're a paranoid of the first order, what could the big deal possibly be?

The longer you go here Turnip the more sold I get on the idea of posting scrambled ISP's. And doing a web search returns fewer than 1500 hits on catspaw49 and I have over 12,000 posts here....that was on Google, I didn't try the myriad others. What is the big deal about maintaining an ID here Turnip?

Now....After reading this last post or two of yours, I would hate to be you. You seem to be completely mental. I assume you sleep on the floor so no one can hide under your bed. Do you have a private food taster or have you quit eating because you are fearful that he might fuck you over? Okay, I admit it.......I can't wait to give Max a call and find out all about you so I can explore your life and fuck with your bank account. I might even show up on your door with a .357!!! I bet you'd be positively orgasmic over having your paranoia confirmed huh Turnip?

You need to get some professional help before you cower in fear of being attacked by your own shit..........or do you do that already?

This entire conversation(?) is, and has been, going nowhere.........Continue if you wish and have a nice time...........................

Spaw

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 08:34 PM

Crazy Eddie-Thanks for the message.
Everyone Else-Is this the same crazy,paranoid Guest that was here a couple of weeks ago?

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 06:18 PM

As I just said in the other thread BillD, it isn't about search engines like Google, Yahoo, etc. which capture Usenet messages.

What I am talking about is software used to monitor where a person goes on-line, and the information trail they leave.

There is a difference. Do you understand what the difference is?

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Bill D
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 06:13 PM

!!!!???? search engines don't index this forum!...a search on Bill D gives HUNDREDS of hits...none of them here!...and 'harpgirl' gives 32 hits...most in some harp mailing list...NONE here!!!!!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 05:50 PM

"Round and round and round we spin to weave a wall to hem us in"

Neil Young

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: harpgirl
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 05:33 PM

Quite precisely put, August 7 01 12:56PM. For the rest of you, try typing in your mudcat handle on any of the search engines and watch how fast it takes you to all your mudcat postings!!!!!!!! Hope you don't mind!!!!! of course you could regularly change your forum name and stay ahead of the seaqrch engines if you don't post anonymously! harpgirl

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 12:56 PM

GUEST Celtic Soul,

My reason for not using a consistent identifying name in the From line is security. I realize that most people here are pretty paranoid about posters who cite security reasons for remaining anonymous.

That is a large part of the conflict between certain members, who are always suspicious of guests who choose to post anonymously, and don't accept security as a legitimate reason, and guests who do it.

Many people who post on the Internet are blissfully ignorant about security issues by choice. They just don't want to accept that security issues related to Internet identity are real.

For your information, the security issue with using a consistent name, whether real or fictional, is that tracking of individuals on the Internet is often done with keywords. Log-in names and passwords are the easiest thing to track. So that is why some of us choose not to use them if the forum doesn't require us to do so.

Some forums do require log-in or user names, and a verifiable email account. Many people don't use them for that reason, or use what is known as a remailer account.

Hope that clears things up for you, and finally answers your question as to why some of guests choose to post this way.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Sourdough
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 12:00 PM

Guest Traddles managed to say (Aug. 6, 5:00pm) in a couple of lines what has taken us paragraphs to say.

Thanks, Traddles.

Sourdough

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Crazy Eddie
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 09:20 AM

john from hull,
I've sent you a personal message to try to answer your question. To view it, Go to the top of this page, and click on "Personal Pages" then scroll down and click on "messages" Eddie

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: GUEST,Celtic Soul
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 08:45 AM

Spaw,

Again, the original intent was not directed at guests who use a handle (I.E. "Russ" and "Traddles"...or me for that matter ;D ).

I was asking why anyone would post simply as "GUEST" with no other additions so that folks can tell them apart. Posting as "GUEST" with a handle is still anonymous, but it allows others to know one "GUEST" from the next.

Really, I was just curious what the mindset was, if there was one at all. One such "GUEST" basically said it was laziness.

I think my question has been answered. :D

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 01:31 AM

If they have got these things "to mudcat computer you are really you" why are some people pretending to be somebody else? will they get found out soon? or has Max run out of cookies? As you can probably tell I dont know much about computers.from john in hull (I really am john in hull)

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Crazy Eddie
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 01:14 AM

John in Hull,
In an earlier post,[05.51 PM], Spaw typed "coolies" when he meant "cookies".
Ebbie noticed this and decided to try to wind him up.

A "cookie" is a sort of ID which is loaded on your computer, so Mudcat knows who you are; a "coolie" is the Chinese word for a general labourer (often seen in films with a cone-shaped straw hat, pulling a rickshaw).

Trying to wind Spaw up is a long standing ambition for many of us, but it isn't easy.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 12:28 AM

Thanks Spaw.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: catspaw49
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 12:22 AM

A little Chinese guy with a pointy hat that Max sends out through the ether to live inside your computer and tell the Mudcat computers that you are really you. You don't have to do anything as he comes with his own supplies of tofu and rice.

Spaw

.........smartasses...........

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 12:09 AM

Whats a coolie?

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Ebbie
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 11:35 PM

Spaw, don't be elitist- Some of us would accept coolies.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: harpgirl
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 08:44 PM

...Oh Aug 6 01, 8:39 PM, it levels the playing field!! Then we could argue about folk music instead of this boring caca...*wink*

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Bill D
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 08:39 PM

oh,06-Aug-01 - 08:32 PM, that is no fun at all! It has no continuity! *grin*

Subject: I can't believe we s
From: harpgirl
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 08:32 PM

Eureka!!I've got it!!! If you want to address a certain posting by a certain guest, just use the time of the posting as a reference point. That way, when you wish to insult someone we will know exactly to whom the insult is leveled!!!! It's so simple! Why didn't the rest of you think of it??????

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: MMario
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 08:15 PM

Agreed - but I have to add - there have been many posts thanking anonymous people for their contributions -

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: katlaughing
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 06:09 PM

It is dysfunctional to not identify oneself when speaking with someone else. I am sure most GUESTs would not telephone someone then not tell them who they were. It is a courtesy which should be extended here.

By engaging in this round-robin-discussion-going-nowhere with the "I'm so superior" GUEST, we are giving it the attention they seek.

This thread should die off.

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: catspaw49
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 05:51 PM

Traddles, who was good enough to give us a name, just hit it again and it bears repeating.......

There is nothing wrong with being a "guest" and never was. The ones who demonstrate viciousness or "attitude" get called to task, the ones who ask or answer questions, or who can chat like adults have always been welcomed.

Bless you Traddles!

We have a Guests with very legittimate reasons for being so.......can't accept coolies (work computer) and things like that. We also have some who simply are here to flame/troll and that's the sole purpose. The difference is obvious. One of those types just said above that Mudcat was: "Not exactly the type of "family" group I'm interested in visiting with, much less joining and becoming a member of, thank you very much."......Then why are you hanging around except to troll a bit or flame someone? Why else would you hang out with such a bunch of assholes?

We do have quite a few Guests who are viewed as members, like Russ, and it upsets them when this subject comes up. Again....no problem with Russ, or Traddles here. Why don't we quit giving the dumbass Guests what they want? Probably won't happen, but as an idea, it's better than fair.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: Noreen
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 05:45 PM

Thanks for the interest, Bill... :0)

Subject: RE: Posting as merely 'GUEST'
From: CarolC
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 05:44 PM

Guest, Traddles brings up an interesting point... people posting anonymously because of a fear of repercussions in the 3D world. Personally, if I ever get to the point where posting causes me to feel fearful for my safety in the 3D world, I will probably just stop posting altogether. Just my perspective, but posting to an internet forum just wouldn't be important enough to me to have to make those kinds of efforts in order to do it.