Lyr ADD: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe

Subject: Red Rockin' Chair authorship
From:
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 11:23 AM

So does anyone know who wrote the "Red Rockin' Chair" that goes, "I ain't got no use for my red rockin' chair, I ain't got no sugar baby now, baby now! Some ol' gal came along, took my sugar babe and gone...gave him everything I made, then I laid him in the shade, but I ain't got no sugar baby, now"? One listing says "Charlie Monroe", but I thought it was traditional. Some call the tune, "sugar baby". Am getting ready to release a cd with it as tune #1, and need to know for mechanical licensing reasons. Thanks!!!!

Subject: RE: Help: Red Rockin' Chair authorship
From: GUEST,Gern
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 11:32 AM

I have no authoritative data here, but I doubt that authorship can be determined. This song is over a hundred years old, with close kinship to other modal tunes and various versions around. Charlie Monroe could well have deserved credit for converting an old mountain tune from modal melody to bluegrass standards, but I don't believe it was possible for him to have written the original. I would think you would be safe calling it traditional, or claiming rights to your own arrangement.

Subject: RE: Help: Red Rockin' Chair authorship
From:
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 01:13 PM

Thanks - just what I was thinking. My version is different from any I have heard, also. So, I feel safe now in listing it as traditional. Judy

Subject: RE: Help: Red Rockin' Chair authorship
From: Stewie
Date: 16 Jun 01 - 09:00 PM

It has been suggested that the mountain song may have derived from stanzas in 'Lass of Roch Royal' (Child 76).

--Stewie.

Subject: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: Goody2Shz
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 03:33 PM

You guys are awesome when it comes to having lyrics! Am not wondering if anyone can help me with another one I'm having trouble finding.

Sometimes referred to as Red Rocking Chair. Also known as Sugar Babe (or Baby). I believe there is a line about going back to Jericho.

Sorry to be so vague. Hope somebody can help.

Thanks...dmp

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 04:14 PM

Found several slightly different versions here, with Google.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: Goody2Shz
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 04:20 PM

Sorcha -- Thank you so much!! I must have done something wrong when I did a search on Google. I couldn't find anything that would actually give me the lyrics. -- dmp

Subject: Lyr Add: RED ROCKING CHAIR
From: Pinetop Slim
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 04:24 PM

The DT has it as Red Apple Juice. Lyrics are similar to a version of "Red Rockin Chair," attributed to Lily Mae Ledford of the Coon Creek Girls, but neither mentions Jericho, so I 'spect you're looking for another variant:

RED ROCKING CHAIR

1. I ain't got no use for the little red rockin' chair
Got no sugar honey baby here
Who'll rock the cradle, who'll sing that song?
Who'll rock that cradle when you're gone?

2. I ain't got no use for the little red rockin' chair
Got no sugar honey baby here
I'll rock the cradle; I'll sing that song.
I'll rock that cradle when you're gone.

3. I've done all I can do, said all I can say
Take you to your mammy next payday.
I'll rock the cradle; I'll sing that song.
I'll rock that cradle when you're gone.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: Sorcha
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 04:25 PM

I looked in DT, must have missed it.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 03 Aug 01 - 06:18 PM

Jo Ann Kelly sang this on her last LP before she died. I've tried to transcribe her lyrics, which differ from the ones Sorcha found, but I can't quite make all her words out. However the final verse as she sings it goes:

Well I ain't got no time for your red rocking chair,
I ain't got no sugar baby now,
I'm goin' to Montana [?my mama]to get away from here,
I can't get along here with you,
Can't get along here with you.

Still no mention of Jericho!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From:
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 06:16 AM

Doc Boggs recorded a variant of the song in 1966 called "Country Blues". He dispenses with props like rocking chairs and apple seeds and starts out with:

Ain't got no sugar baby now

I don't know if he recorded it in the 20's during his original career.

Murray

Subject: Lyr Add: SUGAR BABE
From: Pinetop Slim
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 04:33 PM

Similar to Boggs' "Country Blues" is "Sugar Babe," which Wayne Erbsen, in Backpocket Old Time Song Book, identifies as a variant of Red Apple Juice and Red Rocking Chair (I think Maria Muldaur recorded another variant as "Honey Babe.")

1. Some old rounder comes along
Took my sugar babe and gone
And I ain't got no sugar baby now
No, I ain't got no sugar baby now

2. I gave her every cent I made,
And I laid her in the shade
And I ain't got no sugar baby now
No, I ain't got no sugar baby now

3.It's who'll call you honey
And it's who'll sing this song?
And it's who'll rock the cradle when I'm gone?
Who'll rock the cradle when I'm gone?

4. I ain't got no use for
Your red rocking chair.
And I ain't got no sugar baby now
No, I ain't got no sugar baby now

---And we're still miles from Jericho --

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: fox4zero
Date: 04 Aug 01 - 05:54 PM

Doc Boggs "old" version was included in Harry Smith's anthology. It's great old-timey.

Larry

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: MAG
Date: 05 Aug 01 - 01:13 AM

Fleming Brown in Chicago's version included the red appple juice verse, the red rocking chair verse, with the send you to your mama next payday refrain. It just played on the Midnight Special. -- MAG

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From:
Date: 05 Aug 01 - 03:55 AM

I meant to look in the "Anthology" to check that Larry. I sort-of thought he did.

Murray

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 06 Aug 01 - 10:36 AM

Roosevelt Sykes recorded 'Sugar Babe Blues' in 1942, but he sings about going to Georgia not Jericho.

EG:

I pulled you before you got ripe, sugar babe.
I pulled you before you got ripe, sugar babe.
I pulled you before you got ripe,
Now I know you ain't my type.
I'm gonna send you right back to Georgia, sugar babe.

Brian

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: Stewie
Date: 07 Aug 01 - 10:10 AM

Murray, I believe you are confusing 2 songs or, at least, 2 titles. Boggs' 'Sugar Baby'[Brunswick 118 in 1927], beginning 'Oh I've got no sugar baby now' and his 'Country Blues' [Brunswick 131 in 1927], beginning 'Come all you good time people/While I've got money to spend', both appear, as Nos 62 and 73 respectively, in the Smith Anthology. He recorded 'Sugar Baby' again for Folkways in June 1964 and 'Country Blues' in June 1963. His 2 versions of 'Sugar Baby' have verses in different order, but both have 'red rocking chair' and 'who will rock the cradle'. 'Country Blues' was originally 'Hustling Gamblers' and has some connection with 'Darling Cory'. Boggs learned 'Sugar Baby' from his older brother, John. It is a different song from 'Country Blues' and I am puzzled by your 1966 date.

--Stewie.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: Tannywheeler
Date: 07 Aug 04 - 05:25 PM

Someone signed "RG" @drink posted words to the version of "Red Apple Juice" sung by my mother, Hally Wood. Not all the words are accurate. The tune that is linked to the posting is ABSOLUTELY right. Note at end said "recorded by GPs From Hally Wood @drink RG".
How can I reach this person/these people to help them with the corrected lines? Does anyone know who this/these are? HELP!?!?

The "Sugar Babe" associated with mother is, of course, "The Crawdad Song". Looks like there may be some like 'traveling' verses.

You get a line, I'll get a pole, honey (singalongers repeat: honey)
(ditto line/pole)               baby (s.r.: baby)
(ditto line/pole), meet you down at the crawdad hole;
Honey -- Sugar Baby, mine. (singalongers included on this line)

Wake up, Ol' Man, you slept too late, Honey (s.r.: honey)
(ditto Wake...late), Baby (s.r.: baby)
(ditto Wake...Late), the last crawdad is on my plate;
Honey -- Sugar Baby mine.

Whatcha gonna do when the liquor gives out, honey? (honey)
(ditto...out)                              baby? (baby)
Tell me, whatcha gonna do when the liquor gives out?
Stand in the corner with my mouth in a pout,
Honey -- Sugar Baby, mine.

Whatcha gonna do when your shoes get thin, honey (etc.)
W. g. d. w. y. s. g. t., baby?...
Say, whatcha......thin? You kin do the work an' I'll sit in,
Honey -- Sugar Baby, mine.

Put yo' hand on yo' hip and let yo' mind roll by, honey(honey)
" "    " "   "   "   "   "   " "    "   "   baby(baby)
Put yo' hand on yo' hip and let yo' mind roll by, cuz you
    gonna shrivel when you die,
Honey -- Sugar Baby, mine.

She sometimes used "tell me" or "say" as quick pickups to the 3rd line in the question verses. Sometimes, only on the 2nd line, she alternated "babe" instead of "baby". She enjoyed the last line of (what I remember as) the last verse, and took her time and enunciated each word.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 07:58 PM

The Holy Modal Rounders also did a version of "Red Rocking Chair" on their album "Alleged in Their Own Time", in which "Sugar Baby" became "Honey Baby". I can thoroughly recommend this and also their double album on Rounder Records which I think is simply called "The Holy Modal Rounders". The latter is of socio-historic interest as it used phrases such as "strutt their stuff" and "I can't abide no woman who goes round sniffin' glue", which shows that these phrases were not just products of the 1970s/1980s. Mind you the word punk is apparently a very old English word for a woman of easy virtue. Not so fussed about the more psychedelic and self-indulgent stuff the HMRs did, although there are 2 or 3 nice songs on "Last Round", etc.

The Crawdad Song is also on a CD by Doc Watson - the tune seems to be similar to the one used by Bob Dylan for "Frog Went a Courtin", the last song on his CD "Good as I been to you", a mostly acoustic folk/blues album. The album if rather uneven; personally I think his version of Stephen Foster's Hard Times poor, but "Canadee-i-o" is an excellent song which I hadn't heard before. Despite being twee and familiar I actually think Frog Went A Courtin actually the best song on the CD, though sadly probably not suitable for children because of the violent ending, ie the Frog, Mouse and Rat all get eaten!

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: PoppaGator
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 02:09 AM

This discussion reminds me of another completely different song, of which I know only one verse:

Sugar Baby what's the matter with you
You don't love me like you used to do
Sugar Babe, Sugar Babe
It's all over now.

Anybody got any more?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: rich-joy
Date: 21 Aug 04 - 05:20 AM

Mance Lipscomb number, I think, PoppaGator - done by Gove Scrivenor on "Shady Gove" in the 70s, anyway ... (my Partner, Poor Misery, used to do a fine version!)

Cheers! R-J

Subject: Lyr Add: SUGAR BABE (from Uncle Earl)
From: chico
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 04:57 AM

Uncle earl edition

  
              G            D      
  |: Well, I ain't got no use for :|
           Bm         G
  For your red apple juice 
     D            Bm         G|A
  I ain't got no sugar baby now
     D            Bm          A7   D
  I ain't got no sugar honey baby now
  
  I laid her in the shade, laid her in the shade
  And gave her every cent I made
  What else could a poor boy do
  What else could a poor boy do
  
  Some old rounder comes along, old rounder comes along
  With his mouthful of gold
  Rounder stole my sugar babe and gone
  And I got no sugar honey baby now
  
  Well, who'll call you honey?
  And who'll sing this song?
  And who'll rock the cradle when you're gone?
  Who'll rock the cradle when I'm gone?
  
  Well I'll rock that cradle, I'll rock that cradle, 
  And I'll sing this song, 
  I'll rock that cradle when your gone
  Said I'll rock that cradle when your gone
  
  

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: Azizi
Date: 23 Jul 05 - 01:54 PM

Chico, I'm curious. Who is Uncle Earl?

I noticed you also posted his version of the song Raise A Rucus.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: MissouriMud
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 11:24 AM

Azizi - Its not a him its a feminine them - very cool old and not so old mountain music with Rayna Gellert on fiddle and lots of other good musicians in the group - Check out Uncle Earl at http://www.uncleearl.net (sorry, havent figured out the blue clicky thing yet)

Cheers - MM

Subject: Lyr Add: RED ROCKIN' CHAIR
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 02:09 PM

Gee. Having been a onetime aquaintance of Peter Stampfel and having hung out at Mother Blues, The Poison Apple and Fickle Pickle in Chicago in the early sixties; MY version of Red Rockin' Chair goes thusly:

Red Rockin' Chair

Ain't got no use for your red rockin' chair
Got me no honey baby now.
Got me no sugar baby now.

Who'll rock the cradle, who'll sing the song
Who'll rock the cradle when you're gone?
Who'll rock the cradle when you're gone?

It's I'll rock the cradle and I'll sing the song
I'll rock the cradle when you're gone.
I'll rock the cradle when you're gone .

You laid in the shade spending every dime I made
What more can a poor boy do?
What more can a poor boy do?

It's all I can do just to stay here with you
Can't go on alivin' thisaway.
Can't go on alivin' thisaway.

It's all I can do, it's all I can say
Take you to your moma next pay day.
I'll take you to your moma next pay day.

Ain't got no use for your red rockin' chair.
Got me no honey baby now.
Got me no sugar baby now.

I think it might be a cobbled amalgam of what I heard (with my very own ears!) folkies in those clubs playing and singing. I play it on the five string in Gm modal and play it alot down here in Franklin county

I don't recall ever hearing it on a record or CD.

A friend of mine played it as Red Apple Juice but I didn't think that made much sense. Course neither does Red Rockin' Chair, come to think of it.

CB

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 02:11 PM

I just noticed that forum postings of RRC stuyff always take place in the heat of the summer!

CB

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: Coyote Breath
Date: 25 Jul 05 - 02:14 PM

its a kinder, gentler, version of Cold Rain and Snow.

CB

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 31 Jul 05 - 01:59 PM

Far as I know, Red Rockin' Chair started out as Bascom Lamar Lunsford's Red Apple Juice, was later recorded by Charlie Monroe. Verses not unlike those here. But that cranky ol' Lunsford voice and idiosyncratic banjo turn it unearthly.

The Lunsford version is flat out beautiful and deserves to be heard. It's not on the Folkways LP; not sure if his Riverside or other later records include it. It is printed in Loyal Jones' bio of him, "Minstrel of the Appalachians."

Without an exhaustive search through Jones' book (it has no index, a real flaw) I can't be sure, but I think I have seen it stated somewhere that Bascom learned it back in the mountains on one of his numerous song-collecting jaunts.

See the other B L Lunsford threads. Just posted a defense of the prickly old man on one of them a few minutes back.

Bob

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Aug 05 - 04:01 AM

I suppose like most English people, my acquaintance with this song is through Ralph McTell - he put it it on his Streets album - so its from the years when Tony Visconti was producing his stuff. Streets was the album released in the wake of Streets of London being a hit so a very smooth production, and lots of people bought the album, and as a consequence are familiar with this song.

its strange how some very easily understandable blues (think of that Lemon jefferson one where the family are given back the body of a loved one who has died in the electric chair) and yet remain virtually unknown - whilst things like Easy Rider, matchbox, and this one , where the meaning is obscure to say the least, exercise a fascination over lots of artists.

all the best

Big Al Whittle

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Sep 10 - 09:41 PM

I, Joel Shimberg, started from Charlie Monroe and his KY Pardners:

I ain't got no use for your red rocking chair,
Ain't got no honey baby now.
Ain't got no honey baby now.

It's who'll rock the cradle, who'll sing this song?
Who'll rock the cradle when I'm gone.
Who'll rock the cradle when I'm gone?

It's I'll rock the cradle, I'll sing your song.
I'll rock the cradle when you're gone.
I'll rock the cradle when you're gone.

It's all I can say, girl, all I can do;
Tried to get along with you.
I tried my best to get along with you,

It's all I can do, Lord, it's all I can say.
Send you to your mama next payday.
Send you to your mama next pay day.

Ain't got no use for your red red rocking chair.
Ain't got no honey baby now.
Ain't got no honey baby now.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Sep 10 - 04:19 AM

It predates Ralph McTell in UK. Isla Cameron would often sing it to round off her set at the old Ballads & Blues Club at the Princess Louise, about 1956-7, intentionally to wind up Ewan MacColl who tried to impose a rule that only Americans might sing American songs: I recall his once shaking his head at her more in sorrow than in anger and promising her 50 lashes at the gangway if she ever did it again! I loved her singing of it and have been singing it ever since. It is the final track, under title Red Apple Juice, with acknowledgments to [& in memory of] her, on my Butter&Cheese&All record [originally a Brewhouse cassette, now remastered on CD]; & I have put it up for all to hear on my Youtube channel ~~

http://www.youtube.com/user/mgmyer

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: GUEST,Crowcity
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 01:19 AM

What s this song about ? ' send ya to ya momma next payday. '
This person lst a loved one ?

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 02:01 AM

It is surely about a relationship breaking up: I know that bit as "going home to my mammy next payday"...

... 2nd of two antithetical stanzas ~~

Said all I can say and done all I can do
Ain't no living here for me with you.

Done all I could do and said all I could say
Going home to my mammy next payday

~M~

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 28 Sep 13 - 05:13 AM

well obviously Ralph must have got it from somewhere. All I'm saying is that alot of people in England know the song because of his version.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: GUEST,gina kay landis
Date: 10 May 14 - 11:40 AM

I know this done from (then) Suzanne Edmundson of the Hot Mud Family and knew it as a version of a Child ballad.

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: GUEST,Joseph Scott
Date: 15 May 16 - 04:07 AM

E.C. Perrow's song 76 (from 1909) in his multipart 1910s article reads like this:

"Done all I can do
Trying to get along wid you;
Gwine to carry you to your mammy pay day."

The original manuscript (see the "E.C. Perrow original manuscripts online" thread) appears to have more that's all part of the same song, as provided to Perrow by W.G. Pitts:

"you been hanging around
and fooling around till the
summers all most gone.
summers all most gone babe
summers all most gone
done all I can do
trying to get along wid you
gwine to carry you to your mamy
pay day"

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: John Minear
Date: 15 May 16 - 10:54 AM

Here's an awfully nice version by my friend Laurelyn Dossett of Greensboro, NC.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hDXjVU_3adw

Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Red Rocking Chair / Sugar Babe
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 21 - 05:39 PM

Wow-this is good stuff- I came up with my own version after listening to MANY different versions..(I play it on fiddle (or banjo) D/G/Bm
-pick your own key)

I ain't got no use,
I ain't got no use,
I ain't got no use for your red rocking chair,
I Ain't got no honey baby now.
I Ain't got no sugar baby now.
I Ain't got no honey baby,sugar baby now.

Some old gambler came,
Some old gambler came with a pocket full of gold.
That gambler came and stole my jelly-roll,
That gambler came and stole my jelly-roll,

Who'll rock the cradle, who'll sing this song?
Who'll rock the cradle when your gone ?
Who'll rock the cradle when your gone ?

I'll rock the cradle, I'll sing this song.
I'll rock the cradle when you're gone.
I'll rock the cradle when you're gone.

I ain't got no use,
I ain't got no use,
For that red apple juice.
I'm living on corn whiskey now,
I'm living on corn whiskey now.

It's all I can do, it's all I can say,
I can't go on living this way.
I can't go on living this a-way.

End/Repeat First Verse.