BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn

Subject: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 04:33 PM

IT'S SUPPOSED TO SAY "BS"...SORRY!

Worth sharing, I think. **BG**

1) The bandage was wound around the wound.
2) The farm was used to produce produce.
3) The dump was so full that it had to refuse more refuse.
4) We must polish the Polish furniture.
5) He could lead if he would get the lead out.
6) The soldier decided to desert his dessert in the desert.
7) Since there is no time like the present, he thought it was time to present the present.
8) A bass was painted on the head of the bass drum.
9) When shot at, the dove dove into the bushes.
10) I did not object to the object.
11) The insurance was invalid for the invalid.
12) There was a row among the oarsmen about how to row.
13) They were too close to the door to close it.
14) The buck does funny things when the does are present.
15) A seamstress and a sewer fell down into a sewer line.
16) To help with planting, the farmer taught his sow to sow.
17) The wind was too strong to wind the sail.
18) After a number of injections my jaw got number.
19) Upon seeing the tear in the painting I shed a tear.
20) I had to subject the subject to a series of tests.
21) How can I intimate this to my most intimate friend?

Let's face it - English is a crazy language. There is no egg in eggplant, nor ham in hamburger; neither apple nor pine in pineapple.

English muffins weren't invented in England or French fries in France.

Sweetmeats are candies while sweetbreads, which aren't sweet, are meat.

We take English for granted. But if we explore its paradoxes, we find that quicksand can work slowly, boxing rings are square and a guinea pig is neither from Guinea nor is it a pig.

And why is it that writers write but fingers don't fing, grocers don't groce and hammers don't ham?

If the plural of tooth is teeth, why isn't the plural of booth beeth? One goose, 2 geese. So one moose, 2 meese?

One index, 2 indices?

Doesn't it seem crazy that you can make amends but not one amend.

If you have a bunch of odds and ends and get rid of all but one of them,what do you call it?

If teachers taught, why didn't preachers praught?

If a vegetarian eats vegetables, what does a humanitarian eat?

Sometimes I think all the English speakers should be committed to an asylum for the verbally insane.

In what language do people recite at a play and play at a recital?

Ship by truck and send cargo by ship?

Park in a driveway, and drive on a parkway?

Have noses that run and feet that smell?

How can a slim chance and a fat chance be the same, while a wise man and a wise guy are opposites?

You have to marvel at the unique lunacy of a language in which your house can burn up as it burns down, in which you fill in a form by filling it out and in which, an alarm goes off by going on.

English was invented by people, not computers, and it reflects the creativity of the human race, which, of course, is not a race at all.

That is why, when the stars are out, they are visible, but when the lights are out, they are invisible

P.S. Why doesn't "buick" rhyme with "quick"?

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 04:41 PM

Gallagher used to do something like this. It was hilarious! Thanks, kat!

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Charley Noble
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 04:48 PM

You're right. English is "pretty bad".;-)

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Hollowfox
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 04:49 PM

And then there's that anthology of early writings and drawings by Dr. Seuss:"The Tough Coughs as he Ploughs the Dough". (Morrow, 1987) (me, obsessive with those citations? Well, sometimes, but this time I just wanted to reassure you all that I'm not making this up. *g*)

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Hollowfox
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 04:51 PM

Charley, I prefer to think of it as "wicked good".

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 04:56 PM

Great stuff Kat, Thanks

A couple of points:

I 'think' it's only Americans who 'fill out' forms, here in England, we 'fill them in'

Also Buick does rhyme with Quick. at least where I'm from...

Sam

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: paddymac
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 05:06 PM

Went to Two, too. Might, mite; Site, cite;

ad nauseum!

I have the greatest respect for anyone who undertakes English as a second language. It seems as though the primary rule is to break all the rules.

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 05:13 PM

i before e except after c

works for receive

not such a good rule for spelling science

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 05:20 PM

English is an agglomerative language. Italian is heavily derived from Latin but English has Norse, Teutonic, Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, French and Latin roots (may have missed some) plus more than a soupcon of aboriginal and oriental, Spanish, French and Italian, German, etc.,etc. words. In addition, the words of Latin derivation came from the Church, the Latin brought into French, changed, and given us by the Norman invasion, scholarly Latin, and the Latin invented by scientists to apply in botany, zoology, etc. KatL. missed a good one on bow- bow in the hair, bow the violin, bow and arrow, and the other bow (bough), bow of a ship, bow to a monarch, etc. I have heard experienced newscasters miss on that one. Now add all of the dialects such as Australian, Scots, Celtic, Yorkshire, Cockney and what H. L. Mencken called "The American Language" (see his book) and we have a real OLLA PODRIDA. It is what makes the English language the business language of the world because it is so flexible and encompassing. I also think it is what makes the language interesting and fun!

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 05:24 PM

Shelley Berman had a pretty funny schtick on plurals. The only thing I can remember right now though is "One mouse, two mice; one blouse, two blice." More when (if) I can remember them.

Musically speaking, a French horn is not French, it's derived from an English hunting horn, and an English horn is not a horn, it's a woodwind. **Bleaugh!!**

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Daystar
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 05:24 PM

Help Iam English but all these are just confusing to some one with dyslexia!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: GUEST,Sam
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 05:32 PM

Daystar,

What sort of help would you like?

There are lots of dyslexia resorces on the web, a couple of threads here too

Sam

how come dyslexics always know how to spell dyslexia?? (sorry, cheap joke)

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Sorcha
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 05:37 PM

I read the red book. Can you read?

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 05:46 PM

French isn't too regular either you know, nor Spanish, German, Italian etc

Lets not be too harsh on English.

After all, it's what made America great!!

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 05:49 PM

Dicho, it wasn't me who wrote up the original, I just passed it on. Don't want to take undue credit. Good one on the "bow.":-)

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 05:53 PM

i before e except after c and in WEIRD words. Append list. We must mention the tendency to invent new word usage to take care of political and social correctness. Then there are the jerks who invent all of the unnecessary terms for computer users. Why spam and not junk mail, software instead of programs, etc. How many people say impact instead of affect and effect (fuzzying up the language, to coin another unnecessary word), say proactive when they mean active.

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 05:56 PM

"The wind was rough,
And cold and blough..
She kept her hands
Inside her mough."

there is a newsgroup called japan.lang.english.communication, where Japanese trying to learn English post questions & comments, trying to discern 'rules' and correct usage...it can be funny, sad, silly, astounding...and more. One of the funniest was a LONG discussion of the meaning of "hold the mustard" when referring to a hamburger...

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: katlaughing
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 06:05 PM

proactive - antiactive=a sloth?

Oh, Bill, I can just imagine, esp. with the Grey Poupon mustard commercials in mind, with the posh holding the bottle of mustard!

kat

Subject: RE: Help: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 06:05 PM

A Dutch friend said he was going to take a douche. We found out he meant shower.

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: GUEST,Ealewyn Maas
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 06:23 PM

I hab not find the Eenglhish soo hard to learned. I am so good to speaking the Eenglish now that most peoples they understand almoste every word I saying. For me it is langwage witout paralell in world. Only what means dymbass? I am thinking it is meaning some kinds of stupid? Yes? Please to enlighting me.

Ealewyn Maas

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 06:31 PM

Nothing so base as a base player balling the jack.

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Gareth
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 06:44 PM

English evolves, it is only chauvenistic fools who try to keep a linguistic purity - such as the French or North Waliams.

Any how, when you look at the various infiltrations into the Saxon linga from precursors such as the various varieties of the Celtic and Brython tounges, and Latin, through Norse, French, and "colonial" imports, how much is english english - comprende O.K. ?

It's easier to spell software rather than program(e), and to revive the "Spam" wartime story - its bland, soft, and everybody gets it ! - perfect for electronic junk mail.

Anyway I am bilingual - I speak Swelsh and Sarf Lundun.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Shields Folk
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 06:48 PM

So not English then?

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Firecat
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 07:03 PM

Eh?????

Seriously though, there was apparently some people who tried to simplify spelling in the 19th Century, but it fell through.

Tipikal. I wud hav prifered it to bee simplifyd, cos it wud bee eeseer and it wudn't matter if yoo cudn't spel rite! AND yoo wudn't get anoyin wurds like "Disciplinary" that ar reely dificult to spell!!

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Shields Folk
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 07:06 PM

English is a language to be spoken.

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 07:29 PM

English is a language to be spoken? Aren't they all? To get back to computer lingo, spam makes me want to url my cookies.

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Firecat
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 07:31 PM

Well, yeah, you've got a point there Shields Folk, BUT I'm an English student and you should see the length of the essays I have to write! 3000 words in 90 minutes! Not easy for me, cos if I want it to be legible I have to write really slowly. It's easier on computers! You get spell checkers on computers as well but you don't if you're writing by hand, and in my essays you get points knocked off for misspelt words, so I always end up losing marks if I've used words like "Definate" for something that is certain, or "Stationery" for something that's not moving. It's not as easy as it seems!!

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: RangerSteve
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 07:43 PM

We don't have a formal and informal "you", we don't apply different genders to inanimate objects, thus requiring variations on "the". For those reasons alone I'm glad it's my native language.

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: catspaw49
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 07:51 PM

I fayl tu see the problem. Inglish iz an ez langwaj tu lern.

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 08:06 PM

A Chicago newspaper tried to simplify by changing the GK. ph to f, as in fotography, as the Spanish do. I believe the Toronto Globe and Mail is starting to leave out the u in harbor (and other American non-u words) to more closely match majority usage in North America. There is a basic English (horrid thought), limited, I believe, to 800 words. Pidgin is better.

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Jeanie
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 08:06 PM

Quite right, Ranger Steve ! (Are you on first name terms with Yogi Bear and Booboo, by the way, or is that an old joke by now ?) As a very-glad-to-be-only-part-time-teacher-of-German, also in English we don't have a case system which draws a distinction between saying "I came into the room" (Accusative Case) and "I am sitting in the room" (Dative Case) and other wunderbare things. One big drawback, in English we don't have really long and easily pronouncable words like: Schnellzugzuschlagschein; Kolonialwarenladen; Gassackentfaltungsgeschwindigkeitsmessgeraet undsoweiter. I'm sure the German Mudcat contributor will add a few more. Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Jeanie

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Shields Folk
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 08:08 PM

I don't know about you but I pronounce the u in harbour!

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Ebbie
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 09:31 PM

English must be an easy language- I was no more than a tot when I learned it.

:)

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 09:36 PM

GUEST Aelewyn...

I think that possibly you meant "dumbass".

It's a synonym for Spaw.

For further info, call the information desk at the NYCFTTS.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: toadfrog
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 10:07 PM

On why English is so hard to learn, Click Here

On the other hand, the first song I ever learned in German begins:

Lernen Sie Englisch oder koennen Sie schon.
Ich gebe gerade die fuenfe Lektion.
Wenn Sie zu mir in die Unterricht geh'n,
da koennen Sie nach vierzehn Tag' Alles verstehen!
Dann brauchen Sie kein Dolmetscher mehr,
denn Englisch ist gar nicht so schwer!

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Aug 01 - 11:00 PM

Jeanie has a point. I can translate scientific German and have had published in Germany a technical book on plant morphology and nomenclature, but I find it impossible to read the first page of a German equivalent of a Harlequin roman. The big words in scientific writing fall apart and are easily handled. You soon learn also how to do without the verb until you have completed the paragraph-long sentence as well. Gender and case stop me- except the wonderful subjunctive so loved by German scientists. Perhaps because we learn English first, it becomes extremely difficult to learn European languages. Now if the world would recognize the innate superiority of English- wouldn't it be a dull place!

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 12:01 AM

because English borrows so much from other languages, it is amazingly flexible....so it can be used beautifully and elegantly...or made cumbersome and stupid by ineptitude. This DOES make it difficult to learn well, and no 'simple' rules...but when it is carefully honed, it can do many things....

for example, some of G.W.F. Hegel's philosophy is so difficult in Hegel's original German, that German students regularly read it in the English translation, which seems to have 'more' words to explicate the complex concepts...

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Bert
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 12:50 AM

Software is not necessarily a program it can be other data. And a program is not necessarily software it can be embedded in the hardware where it is sometimes called firmware.

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Fiolar
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 06:14 AM

Don't forget the newspaper headline which completely flummoxed a foreign student doing his best to learn English - "Pope Pronounced Worse."

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: mytoycar
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 06:28 AM

the reason english is so hard to learn is because no english person can speak their own language so how is any one else ment to

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Brían
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 09:27 AM

One moose, two meese?
Not likely!

Brían.

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: fox4zero
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 01:01 PM

Katlaughing

Is there an "official" term for words that are spelled alike but have pronounced differently? Like wind (air movement) and wind (to tension a spring). I have been collecting them for years.

Larry Parish

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: katlaughing
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 01:24 PM

There sure is, Larry. Here ya go and thanks for asking. You must have quite a collection!

Main Entry: hom.onym
Pronunciation: 'hä-ma-nim
Function: noun
Etymology: Latin homonymum, from Greek homOnymon, from neuter of homOnymos
Date: 1697
1: one of two or more words spelled and pronounced alike but different in meaning (as the noun quail and the verb quail)

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: GUEST,CFJS
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 01:52 PM

I suspect there are two reasons why English is so heard to learn:

1)It is composed of many different root languages, before we start adding modern colloquialisms: Celtic,Latin, Saxon/Viking and Norman French. Giving it roots in Celtic, Latin and Germanic languages, which I understand is fairly unusual. It can become quite intresting when you look at the roots of some usages, for example a cow is a cow in the feild where the Saxon serf looked after it, but Beef on the table where a Norman lord ate it (look at the other meats, and you can work out what was not 'noble' fair).

2) When the the printing press was invented the first person to try to write a dictionary for the language took his spellings from different areas of the country, which affected the pronouncation, hence rough is pronounced ruff, whilst although is prounounced 'all tho.

I'm English and long ago came to the conclusion that there is no rhyme or reason for the way we spell or pronounce things, but that we, and the rest of the world are stuck with it. Good luck

CFJS

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: vindelis
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 02:23 PM

There is also the question of which 'English' is being taught, 'Oxford' or 'American'. When I was at Grammar School, all foreigners learnt Oxford English and spoke English with their native accent. These days American English seems to have taken over, and you don't realize they are NOT American until they revert to their native language.

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: vindelis
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 02:43 PM

Of course there is also the task of paring a pair of pears.

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Mr Red
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 02:51 PM

one more string to the "BOW"
beau

actually the English language (and all it's patois's) is a boon to humour. The ambiguity it presents from its myriad contributions makes the pun into an art form. And me a pundit!
contnetious??? Discus ------
(just thought I would through that in)
DISCUSS -------

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 03:10 PM

Guest CFJS: The reason that rough and although are pronounced differently has nothing to do with the part of England they came from. Rough is Old High German Ruh (with umlaut) which is found in Old English. Although is a Middle English word, at leeast as old as the 14C. Also see my earlier posting on the origins of English. KatL had two rows, e.g. row of pins, row the boat, but I had a row with my better half. Try Canadian English- a mixture of Oxford, American and Franglais. Of course the Americans are pretty homogeneous compared with the Britons who show differences between upper class "Oxford" English and the English spoken by the masses. Not all dialect either. One outstanding example was "serviette." The OED maintained that the word was vulgar, since it was an unnecessary use of a foreign word. Table napkin was preferred. Canadians are often taught serviette at home and in school. Americans almost invariably use the word napkin. Now in the minds of some people, napkin gets confused with diapers or "nappies." As a result serviette is gaining ground in English upper class use. Americans as a whole have never heard "serviette" unless they have traveled.

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 04:35 PM

kat, I believe fox4zero was asking if there is an 'official' term for words that are spelled alike but pronounced differently, not homonyms.

I'm sure there is such a term- but it escapes me!

Ebbie

Subject: RE: BS: Reasons why English is so hard to learn
From: Dicho (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Aug 01 - 06:26 PM

English dictionaries. One of the first to start putting things together was Cotgrave's Dictionary of English and French which came out in 1612. His friend, the playwright Ben Jonson, published a grammar, equally important. The word you are seeking is HETERONYM- having the same spelling but different meaning and sound. B. G. Wilder coined the term in the mid-1800s.