File anonymous guest complaints here

Subject: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:13 PM

And keep them out of other discussions please.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Ralphie
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:16 PM

Why should I talk to someone who doesn't exist?
Ralphie

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Banjer
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:23 PM

Anything I have to say I will say using my registered name and will NOT hide like so many other cowards behind a cloak of anonimity!!

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Ralphie
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:24 PM

Banjer...Well said
Cheers Ralphie

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:24 PM

I agree.

Subject: File this!
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:27 PM

Pardon me... I got nothin' to say!

-George Carlin-

;-)

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Ralphie
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:27 PM

Hi John
Bit late for you. Isn't it ?
Just want to out-groove our little insignificant " GUEST" friend Regards R xx

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: katlaughing
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:30 PM

Oh c'mon you guys, we can use this as the Litter Box and bytch all we want to about those who choose to remain unknown.**BG**

You know, we can stratch like we're digging a hole to China, squat and, oops, sorry gotta watch out below, then quick bury it with another scritch, scratch, scritch.

I'll bet the litter is even the flushable type, too!

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Ralphie
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:32 PM

George.....
If you've got nothing to say then....Out with it lad....Get it off your chest, we really want to know what you haven't got to say !! Ralphie

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Snuffy
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:33 PM

I think there should be more anonymous guests, but we only seem to get one!

Or do we?

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: catspaw49
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:35 PM

Ya' got it right Snuffy!

Spaw

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Ralphie
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:36 PM

Kat....Off to me bed now.... Just couldn't resist winding up our eponymous "GUEST" once again. Rest assured I have a huge smile on my face. I must have become a member of "THE DYSFUNCTIONAL BRIGADE" without realising it !! Sleep well...Love R xxx

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:36 PM

They said my Aunt Myrtle had an Anonymous Guest one night, and that's how we got Cousin Shem.

Alex

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST,guest,jack
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:38 PM

If it really bothers you members, why don't you exclude guests from posting anything-- I really don't understand your problem with it(posting as a guest)after all, Ralphie, or banjer or katlaughing isn't any of your real names.You know just as much about me when I post as guestjack as I know about you.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:39 PM

Hey guys, can I join this inner clique? PLEASE !!!

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:43 PM

Okay, John, but don't tell everybody.

Alex

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Ralphie
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:49 PM

Hi Guest Jack
Just to fill you in, if you're new to this madness called Mudcat
My real name is Ralph Jordan. Have lived in London all my life . and have been a contributee to this site for the last few months. Ralphie is a stupid family moniker going back 40 odd years. The whole point of this silly thread is to burst the balloon of very odd people who prefer to remain anonymous, and try to wind everyone else up. My way of dealing with such people is (and it's deadfully childish, I know) RIDICULE.!!!
A lot of people get really riled by such threads. (and, there have been quite a few recently).
Have a look at various other threads on the same subject, and all will become clear. Best Wishes Ralphie

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Goody2Shz
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 07:56 PM

I'd like to be a guest...but, I never get invited anywhere.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Ralphie
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:00 PM

Another thought.....Guest Jack.
If you became a member, you could send me a private message, all this stuff could be done on a one-to-one basis. And, nobody else would ever know !!!! R xx

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:00 PM

Wow GUEST, you have really started something here. Intresting to see how many posters would remind us of the click on what you read, ignore what you don't arguements..

John in Hull. I was talking to a well known Mudcatter a couple of weeks ago and he talked about a chat with someone even more famous than him in Mudcat. Let's call them A and B respectively.

A: There is a clique in Mudcat
B: No there isn't
A: Yes there is but anyone can join
B: Well yes, I agree...

I'd guess this sums up much of my feeling: There is a clique which is open to anyone who agrees with their viewpoints regarding the Mudcat forum. I do on some but I can't remain true to myself and agree on others.

Jon

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:01 PM

Wow thanks Alex, I promise I won't tell anybogy!

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:03 PM

A "clique" is what people who can't make friends call circles of friends.

alex

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Snuffy
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:03 PM

We have no problem with handles instead of real names, but the point blank refusal to even use a fictitious handle pisses a lot of people off.

If you're invited into the home of someone whose culture is that you remove you shoes before entering, you may find this custom ridiculous or even offensive. A civilised person has two alternatives:

a) politely comply with the custom in the interest of harmonious relations, or

b) politely decline to enter.

But you could also say "I find your customs totally ridiculous,and have intention of complying with them, but I will still enter your house with my shoes on, and I'll make sure they've got lots of mud on them just to show you how much I despise you"

That really helps to spread love and understanding.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Gareth
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:06 PM

guests (anon)

To prick thier pomposity, or is it the pomposity of pricks ???

Gareth

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:08 PM

Well said Snuffy.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:14 PM

I'm part of whatever clique believes this shit is stupid because discussions about what 'should be' have nothing to do with what 'is,' and people just get pissed off and use them as an excuse to feel superior and insult other people.

Maybe we ought to start a forum somewhere to do nothing but discuss Mudcat, because all the healing threads in that ever were haven't come close to the volume and the redundant, pointless "you're stupid" sort of nastiness that occurs in these. Over and over and fucking OVER again.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Firecat
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:15 PM

I think that GUESTs are just shy! I know if I'm gonna say something stupid, or pointles, or whatever, I wouldn't want people to know who I am. Sure the only time I've posted as a GUEST was when I was in Berlin, but the only reason I did was so I could PROVE that I was there and not just making it up!

Then again, they could all be undercover spies, working to discover the unusual species known as the Mudcat!

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:19 PM

The interesting thing is that being anonymous can be a way of being modest, self abnegation. "Don't look at me, listen to my message."

But in this context it's the reverse - "Don't bother to listen to what I'm saying, look at me."

In the Mudcat we are all as anonymous as we wish to be, but there's something different about being anonymous in an exhibitionist way, backing into the limelight.

I think talking about it as "cowardly" and so forth is off the point. Cowardice and bravery don't come into it. There's nothing brave about using an identifying name, your own name, or a nickname your are known by, or a made up pseudonym. And there's nothing cowardly about refusing to use one. Even if you want to say nasty things to other people, so what. Honestly, no matter what anyone in California says about me, I'm not going to hare across and break their door down. Or even if you lived a bit closer, next-door for example.

No the real thing is that, in this context, refusing to use even a temporary identifying name in a thread that allows people to debate in the reasonable confidence that they are dealing with one person rather than a random bunch of hecklers, is a breach of fellowship. It comes across as intentional discourtesy, and an attempt to generate discourses and bad feelings among others.

Maybe there is some other kind of rationale or motive, other than exhibitionism on the one hand, and a wish to cause bad feelings on the other. But I find it hard to imagine it.

But one thing I agree with - it's much better to keep this sort of meandering out of discussion thread about more significant things. (Though the preservation of a pattern of friendly discourse and good feelings between us here is a significant enough thing, and so is anything that undermines it. It's unfortunate if by discussing it we seem to reward it.)

"My name is legion."

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: CarolC
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:21 PM

If you're invited into the home of someone whose culture is that you remove you shoes before entering, you may find this custom ridiculous or even offensive. A civilised person has two alternatives:

a) politely comply with the custom in the interest of harmonious relations, or

b) politely decline to enter.

--Snuffy

Good point Snuffy. But the question is, who determines what the culture of this place will be? Max has created this site, and his creation includes the possibility of there being anonymous guests. So... are you going to gracefully comply, or are you going to decline to enter?

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: mousethief
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:23 PM

who determines what the culture of this place will be?

The clique, of course!

What I want to know is, is mudcat commonplace, or are we all a bunch of dysfunctionals? Or is a website full of dysfunctionals commonplace? I'm soooo confused.

Alex

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:42 PM

is a breach of fellowship. It comes across as intentional discourtesy, and an attempt to generate discourses and bad feelings among others.

Mr. McGrath, I have never looked at posting anonymously as a breach of fellowship. I see your point.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:53 PM

I, the anonymous guest who started this thread at 7:13 p.m., have counted 25 hits within an hour.

Just like shootin' fish in a barrel.

Keep up the good work Mudcatters. We need to hear more of this sort of thing from you.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: SINSULL
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:55 PM

How sad, Goody2Shz. My father says that I will always be welcome to visit anywhere twice...the second time to apologize for the first.

GUEST,
I have no problem with people preferring to post as GUEST. I do have a problem with you telling what I cannot post to another discussion. If a GUEST is viciously and anonymously flaming, I reserve the right to comment on the spot. For the record, I try not to, in an effort to avoid feeding the flames.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: DougR
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:56 PM

Firecat: perhaps the way to handle pointless or stupid postings is to try not to do them. But if you do, always sign them: Firecat! :>)

I just take postings where a name or chosen name is used more more seriously myself than I do one posted by GUEST, unless it is clearly a first-time post. Particularly if is a subject that calls for personal opinion.

DougR

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Firecat
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 08:58 PM

Thanks a lot, Doug!! I'm not THAT stupid!!!!!!!

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 09:15 PM

I think people should put a name, if they dont want to put a name why dont they put a number? It would make it easy to see if it was the same guest or not,plus if they say something interesting you could trace their posts by click on their name and see what else they said.john

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Goody2Shz
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 09:29 PM

Sinsull -- Don't be sad for me. I'm actually pretty well liked, have a skewed and sometimes dark sense of humor. I am frequently invited back to where I've been before.

I was just trying to be a bit humorous.

I don't know what the big deal is (too new to the forum, and not part of the inner circle), and thought I would post a quip.

By the way...not being part of the inner circle is okay, too. Circles have a way of growing and encompassing those who wish to join.

I have found over the years that being able to say what you really think is easier for some if it is masked behind being anonymous. Me? I say what I think (kindly, I hope) and don't want my thoughts or messages to be lost because it is not known that Goody is losing her Shz again. You may not pay attention if you think I am hiding.

Dear Guests...don't get me wrong. You all do what you need to do in regards to being anonymous, and I respect that. We all have our reasons. Being individual is not a sin or crime....um...unless, of course, you maim or murder someone!

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 10:14 PM

I had no idea Mudcatters felt this way. I just wish I understood better what the reasons were behind this. Do keep sharing, as I think the healing is really beginning.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Goody2Shz
Date: 13 Aug 01 - 10:49 PM

I just got a very nice personal note from Sinsull. Something that would not have occurred had I posted as a guest.

Thanks for considering me and my feelings.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 05:45 AM

Now the anonymous GUEST who posted at 8.42 and the one at 8.53 came across to me as possibly two different people. But maybe not, which is the rreeason I am critical of the practice of "GUEST only" posting.

If I wanted to respond to the one at 8.42 I'd know I was dealing with someone who had said they took my point, and the discussion could move on. I wouldn't feel it necessary to make the same point again. But that wouldn't apply to 8.53, if it's someone else.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 05:55 AM

Maybe Guest can't spell his name!

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: sophocleese
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 09:38 AM

I find the olfactory abilities of some members of Mudcat a little peculiar. They say that they can sniff out a flaming member on the basis of style in maybe five words but they cannot smell the difference between two or more anonymous guests with far longer posts.

McGrath just as with an audience of strangers to you and your music, if you perform you might interest some of them but not necessarily all of them, if you don't perform none of them will know what you can do.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 09:40 AM

So McGrath, am I the same guest or not(its about 9.45am)

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST,guest,jack
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:07 AM

8:42 and 8:53 are different posts-the 8:42 post was made by me Mr. McGrath-- i'm sorry I didn't include guest,jack I was agreeing with you , and I apoplgize for leaving my name off.jack

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST,Toledo
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:23 AM

I believe the guest who started the thread has made a valuable point, which has been illustrated by the members who have responded in this thread.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Ringer
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:27 AM

Proverbs 17 v28.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:45 AM

Ah, the soul of man enters and meets Mudcat.

Have you carefully entered the courtyard Bald Eagle?

Will your share the minor prophecies with us, or are you invoking the voices of previous prophets here, hmmm?

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:53 AM

Sophocleese,

This is just a short note to express gratitude to you for the astute and poignant observations you posted in Celtic Soul's thread a few days ago, Posting as merely Guest.

Upon revisiting that thread, I see that at least one other appreciated your impartial and tolerant attitudes. Virtue may be its own reward, but here's hoping that a humble "Thank you" communicates some small modicum of appreciation you deserve for your efforts in that thread.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GeorgeH
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 11:00 AM

As I have said several times . .

There are those people who make completely appropriate use of the "Guest" facilities . .

And there are those who misuse them, either from ignorance or lazyness . .

While at the bottom of the heap there are those who abuse them by seeking to provoke "trouble at the 'cat" (possibly not deliberately at the outset.

Personally I've no wish to see those in categories (1) and (2) penalised on account of the anti-social bastards that fall into category 3!

Freedom can always be abused and we simply have to accept that there are those who are all too happy to abuse the freedoms which Mudcat allows.

George

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 11:24 AM

As a guest who appreciates both Sophocleese's and some other anonymous guests contributions here of late, I'd like to say thank you to all as well.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 12:47 PM

To unwrap Bald Eagle's apt offering:

Proverbs 17 v28: If a fool can hold his tongue, even he can pass for wise and pass for clever if he keeps his lips tight shut.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: mousethief
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 12:55 PM

Anonymous guests cannot be held accountable for their reasoning in any disputation, because they can always say "that wasn't me."

Anonymous guests cannot be held accountable for flaming or provocation for the same reason.

Anonymous guests who do not require being held accountable for either of these two reasons find themselves respected and treated accordingly.

Anonymous guests who post provocative, inflammatory, or absurd posts find themselves despised both for the offending post, and for being un-hold-accountable (if you will).

I fail to see how this is in any way dysfunctional.

Alex

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: selby
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 01:30 PM

Does it realy matter as long as the discusion is joined constructivley (is that spelt right?)I would have thought that we are all inteligent enough to ignore the dross that appears masquarading as guest Keith

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GeorgeH
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 01:39 PM

If you're arguing with a fool - just remember that the other person is doing the same!

(To paraphrase Les Barker).

George

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 01:50 PM

McGrath,

For my rhetorical reflections upon Proverbs 17 v 28, see my post of 14 Aug 11:50 a.m. in the "This place is NOT..." thread.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 02:11 PM

It's dysfunctional if the negative side of anonymity is always the focus.

Anonymous guests also cannot be held accountable if they do something positive, like supply an answer to a question, or if by chance they compose a beautiful piece of music or solve the mystery of the universe ... all of which makes accountability a moot point and content the important thing.

The issue of accountability deals with assigning blame or credit for something to an 'identity,' and treating that identity with animosity or respect, accordingly. Identity, blame, credit, respect and animosity don't matter to some people in this (and other) forums. They are less important to some than the content and composition of the information, ideas, or thoughts being expressed.

Granted, the contents of some anonymous messages are designed to inflame, provoke, and/or confound. Whether the objective of these messages is met depends in part on the composition and content of the message, but also on the attitudes of the reader.

On the other hand, the contents of some anonymous messages are designed to assist, inform, and/or enlighten. Whether the objective of these messages is met depends in large part on the composition and content of the message, but also on the attitudes of the reader.

Or as has been stated before, it's not who says it that's important, but what is being said, and how the reader lets it affect him/her.

Then again, it all boils down to what you want to believe. Not much anyone can do to change that, in either direction. So what's a mother to do?

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GeorgeH
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 02:55 PM

Guest -2: If you can't bother to identify yourself why the f**k do you think we should be interested in following your obscure links into other threads?

Guest -1: You have a perverse and peculiar concept of "dysfunctionality". Why does that not surprise me?

G.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Kim C
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 03:50 PM

I don't care what anyone wants to call themselves as long as they play nice, and share their toys, and don't run with scissors or make fun of the other kids.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: MMario
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 04:07 PM

2:11 - I apologize that I am not enlightened enough that I can always maintain equilibrium when " the contents of some anonymous messages are designed to inflame, provoke, and/or confound. Whether the objective of these messages is met depends in part on the composition and content of the message, but also on the attitudes of the reader " Your statement is true.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 04:16 PM

There's a place for anonymity, but like any other behaviour it means different things in different places.

So if someone wants to do good without drawing attention to themselves, they might choose to do it anonymously, and that is honourable. Or they need to do something which might be risky, like blowing the whistle on wrongdoing by people who are in a position to hurt them, and the anonymity is sensible.

Or there's anonymity of a sort in masked performers in a dance, for example, or in a carnival.

And all those are different from the anonymity of a poison-pen writer, or a lynch-mob.

So where does the "anonymity" of people who choose to post without any kind of identifying symbol, even in the temporary context of a thread. Because of course, it's not about anonymity at all - GUEST1 is just as anonymous as GUEST, and the same is just as true if instead they post with a pseudonym. Nobody needs to identify themselves more than they choose to, and nobody suggests they should either. But then of course that's all been said over and over again.

The closest analogy is the anonymity of the prankster, who rings door bells, and lurks around to see people coming to the door and giggles. Which is harmless enough, if irritating. Most people play it as kids occasionally, and only some go on to the next stage up - fake 999 calls for the Fire Brigade and so forth. And the technically clever ones go on to making and unleashing computer viruses.

I suppose sneering at us and starting threads saying "look at me, I'm invisible" is harmless enough, and maybe it keeps him/her/them away from doing more serious damage elsewhere. So since there's nothing we can do to stop it, I suppose we should just ignore it.

And I'll revert from now on to my normal common sense practice of completely ignoring anything by the unnameable. Except maybe where it is clear from the context that it is just an accident, and not a bait paid by someone with dubious motives. Dubious because I can't begin to understand what they are - which is rather lucky on my part. (And they never explain do they? - beyond saying "there's no law against it, so it's all right for me to do it" which certainly isn't a way of saying why anyone should choose to do it.)

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST,Trickster Coyote
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 04:27 PM

Ah McGrath, yer too easy a fool.

I love ringing doorbells and running away.

Throwing snowballs at cars.

Making crank phone calls.

Peek a boo and hide and seek.

Masquerades and Halloween.

Dressing up for hell of it.

Winding people up and pulling outrageous pranks.

Yes, some of us who are here playing with the lot of ya. Because we just love to play the trickster. It's a time honored tradition in my family. Its cheap, easy amusement during a heat wave.

All actions have good and evil consequences, of course, regardless of intention.

So you might as well enjoy life anyway, eh?

Remember, its only the internet...

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 05:23 PM

But you stick your label on to the post, which changes the game. Puts the focus back where it should be, on whatever the trick might be.

Of course you might be an unnameable who's decided to use a label for once, but no harm there. But if you are, or were and and are therefore in a position to cast some light on why anyone might think it more fun, or for that matter more anonymous, to sign in as "GUEST" rather than as "GUEST,Trickster Coyote", why not do so?

If you post any response as GUEST, of course I'll never get to read it. I suppose it's possible someone else might. But since it's a great handle anyway I'd rather hope you'll keep it. Here is a page about your namesake

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 09:03 PM

I swore I was never going to post to these threads again, but I do have to say this -- McGrath, there is wisdom in your words. I wish the world were a smaller place, so I'd could buy you a pint.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST,Trickster Coyote
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 09:29 PM

Yes McGrath, I can see why you recommended that page...right about your reading level, I'd say.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST,Dorothy Parker's Evil Twin
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 09:30 PM

Or just above it.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:22 PM

This one about the original Trickster Coyote figure is a little more sophisticated, but still pretty straightforward.

An interesting role model. I quote from the page I've just linked to: Coyote the trickster is an almost universal presence in Native American spiritual traditions. He created the world, taught human beings survival skills, and brought fire to warm up cold nights. Death came by his hand. He flung the Milky Way into the night sky. At the end of time, Coyote will return and bring all things to completion. His volatile personality, huge appetites for food and women, egotism, and love of mischief--cruel and simply silly--made him unpredictable and potentially dangerous.

Conversely, his epic foolishness caught him in one disastrous trap after another, making him a laughingstock before all of creation.

Much more fun than being nameless.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: GUEST,Dorothy's twin again
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:23 PM

McGrath, thanks for sharing the little you know.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:25 PM

And I'll treat myself to that pint Don. Or rather I'll buy you a pint as well, and drink it for you, and you can do the same.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: mousethief
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 12:14 AM

The aliens are getting restless, I see.

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 12:19 PM

As to the coyote in folklore, it's interesting that almost the same role in Alaska is filled by Raven.

The Raven is the one who found and released Man, who tricked the sun's caregiver into letting him play with the sun and then threw the sun into the sky, so that we now have daylight... lots more.

What I like most about the raven is that s/he/it so obviously enjoys life.

Ebbie

Subject: RE: File anonymous guest complaints here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 01:51 PM

Same thinking presumably lies behind Max having "loki" as one of the servers for Mudcat.