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BS: Experimental Forum

Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 20 Nov 01 - 12:49 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 19 Nov 01 - 11:52 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 19 Nov 01 - 10:50 PM
GUEST,Celtic Soul 04 Sep 01 - 02:16 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 04 Sep 01 - 10:12 AM
wysiwyg 27 Aug 01 - 07:18 AM
Jon Freeman 23 Aug 01 - 09:50 PM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Aug 01 - 09:36 PM
Áine 23 Aug 01 - 07:27 PM
GUEST,Jon Freeman 23 Aug 01 - 01:20 PM
Mary in Kentucky 23 Aug 01 - 11:38 AM
mousethief 23 Aug 01 - 11:32 AM
wysiwyg 22 Aug 01 - 10:46 AM
katlaughing 21 Aug 01 - 11:18 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 21 Aug 01 - 10:25 PM
Jon Freeman 19 Aug 01 - 10:53 PM
GUEST,,gargoyle 19 Aug 01 - 10:26 PM
wysiwyg 19 Aug 01 - 08:42 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Aug 01 - 08:00 PM
Jon Freeman 19 Aug 01 - 07:46 PM
wysiwyg 19 Aug 01 - 07:24 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 19 Aug 01 - 06:57 PM
Jon Freeman 19 Aug 01 - 06:48 PM
Jon Freeman 19 Aug 01 - 06:33 PM
wysiwyg 19 Aug 01 - 05:35 PM
Charcloth 19 Aug 01 - 05:27 PM
Jon Freeman 19 Aug 01 - 02:48 PM
Jon Freeman 19 Aug 01 - 02:45 PM
Jeri 19 Aug 01 - 01:01 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Aug 01 - 12:50 PM
katlaughing 19 Aug 01 - 12:49 PM
Jon Freeman 19 Aug 01 - 12:39 PM
katlaughing 19 Aug 01 - 11:26 AM
Jon Freeman 17 Aug 01 - 07:16 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 17 Aug 01 - 01:02 PM
Jon Freeman 16 Aug 01 - 09:34 AM
Rick Fielding 15 Aug 01 - 11:55 PM
Charcloth 15 Aug 01 - 11:49 PM
SharonA 15 Aug 01 - 07:15 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 15 Aug 01 - 05:44 PM
CarolC 15 Aug 01 - 03:27 PM
Kim C 15 Aug 01 - 02:16 PM
UB Ed 15 Aug 01 - 09:47 AM
UB Ed 15 Aug 01 - 09:44 AM
Jon Freeman 15 Aug 01 - 08:59 AM
McGrath of Harlow 15 Aug 01 - 08:35 AM
Jon Freeman 15 Aug 01 - 05:45 AM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Aug 01 - 10:48 PM
Jon Freeman 14 Aug 01 - 07:47 PM
Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull 14 Aug 01 - 06:34 PM

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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 20 Nov 01 - 12:49 AM

Gargoyle-why don't you stop your incessant wittering and piss off somewhere else? You must be the weirdest bloke I've never met.


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 11:52 PM

Excellent John...and Jon

May you and the new site both prosper and florish.

It looks like the Kitty and her Litter have found a "New Home" outside of the warm glow of folk and the cold glower of blues.

You are most generous to provide an "overflow" for the "refuse" which Max/Joe ignore.


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Nov 01 - 10:50 PM

Refresh for the new people


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: GUEST,Celtic Soul
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 02:16 PM

UB Ed.

Respectfully, I actually think expecting that folks should always be civil *is* asking for perfection. The flip side of the "There is no perfect world" is that people sometimes get their panties in a bunch, me included ;). I have been dealing with forums similar to this one for years, and everywhere I have been there has been at least occasional strife and mudslinging. Somtimes even the most civil of folks can get ruffled, and sometimes it is warranted. The idea of allowing people another place to vent their spleens, or otherwise engage in chat that may be offensive or distracting to others at the 'Cat addresses this problem. I think it is a more realistic solution than to ask people to always be polite or walk away. I wish it were as easy as that, but things said and things done are not always the same.

But that's just my perspective. :D


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 04 Sep 01 - 10:12 AM

And there is stuff about hobbies and computers.


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: wysiwyg
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 07:18 AM

There is a section now on Personal Wellbeing, including threads about depression, recovery from inflammatory problems/adrenal exhaustion, insomnia, and MS.

There is also an experimental thread for the listing of prayer requests in a different way from how they are done at Mudcat.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 09:50 PM

I like the "Mudcat Annexe" but I would have to speak to Max before there would be any chance of me using the word Mudcat in that way. It is one thing me setting up a forum for the use of Mudcatters but I would not go as far as to give a title that appears to imply Max's or Mudcat's endorsment without first obtaining permission from Max.

I think, in the short term (and we don't know how things will work), just calling it "The Annexe" would do.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 09:36 PM

Now, we can use "the blue-clicky-thing" in the MC's inappropritate "BS sections" to directly link into a more germain location within your forum.

Now what does that mean? I hope it just means that it'll be possible to put a link from a thread on the Mudcat to a thread on the experimental forum, and vice versa, the same way you can to any other website.

Incidentally, have you decided on a name for the facility yet, Jon? "Experimental Forum" isn't a longterm name. ASP Resources doesn't really convey much. I think of it Jon's Mudcat Annexe, but again that's a temporary sort of a name. Maybe Mudcat Tea Rooms?


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Áine
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 07:27 PM

Thanks again for all your effort on the 'EF', Jon. You're a real 'mensch', what can I say? ;-)

-- Áine


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: GUEST,Jon Freeman
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 01:20 PM

I took it down for a while to make some changes to the database structure. I should have notified people - sorry. All seems OK to me now.

BTW I've added a bit to allow logged on users to select preferences on forums to view in the default page now.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 11:38 AM

Alex, it appears to be down right now. Try again later.


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: mousethief
Date: 23 Aug 01 - 11:32 AM

I tried just now to go there and could not. Do I need to do something special?

Alex


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: wysiwyg
Date: 22 Aug 01 - 10:46 AM

A draft-in-progress of the FAQ on the Prayer Chain is there for review and contributions to improve it.

The shorter FAQ now in active use will also be available there by request.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: katlaughing
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 11:18 PM

as well as genealogy


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 21 Aug 01 - 10:25 PM

refresh, (it's working fine now and there is a good gardening section)


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 10:53 PM

gargoyle, those that have come over to try the experiment have done so freely. Let's keep it that way.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: GUEST,,gargoyle
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 10:26 PM

Jon

A smashingly BRILLANTidea....very nicely done!

Now, we can use "the blue-clicky-thing" in the MC's inappropritate "BS sections" to directly link into a more germain location within your forum.

In the future, there should be less meowing and more healing within the circle.

THANX


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 08:42 PM

LOL Jon, welcome back to you, too. Weird huh!

~S~


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 08:00 PM

I like feeling there are other places around where I can hang out and exchange views with some familiar people. In both worlds, 3D and virtual.


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 07:46 PM

Welcome back Susan,

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 07:24 PM

What I meant about my cookie comment is simply that Mudcat is open to all, member or not, cookie'd or not. Jon's forum is not open to all, currently. I do not state this based on any assumptions or feelings about why Jon set it up that way... I have not asked him why, and frankly it's up to him and I don't give a tinker's dang.

In fact I would probably choose to set up a prayer forum that way myself if I did one, or have some other way of being sure who people are, because of the personal nature of the material shared in it and my long and effective experience dealing with confidentiality issues from just about any angle you'd care to name. But I respect what Max has created too much to casually make something that I fear would pull people away from what Max means this place to be.

In any event, my lack of being able to decide things like that has been one reason I have not pushed the Prayer Chain people to go to something like this. (It is all set up, BTW, as I have said in the past, complete with introductory posts starting some get-acquainted threads and laying out basic policy.) I just never said, OK, this is how I am wiling to do the prayer thing from now on, let's move over there and out of e-maill-- partly because I could not decide whether to throw it wide open, or what. And the place I happened to set it up requires at least an MSN Passport, to get in, even if I do not close the site to pre-registering members-- I did not know at the time how people would feel about that. There is another place I could move those posts but right now, I care more about keeping life simple and doing MUSIC, MUSIC, MUSIC. And the prayer chain-- no one in it complains!! *G*

But I DO think people (some people) will be likely to make an issue of membership requirements at Jon's forum, at some point. Probably when it starts to do well, that's when the nay-saying will kick in, and then we will have people on the defensive in TWO places. See?

Now please take the following in the spirit in which it is meant. I would really, REALLY appreciate people saying what they think, for themselves, and not focusing on what I may have said as a way of getting at your own thinking. Agreeing or disagreeing with me-- it's just not as valuable as your own precious and creative thinking about things freely from your own view. I am bringing this up because it tends to happen so much-- and it causes me to post less and less about what I think about much of anything. I get to be like some kind of weird magnet. These days, when something starts to be too much about me, I head for the hills.

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 06:57 PM

Susan=I agree you cannot please everyone, as for cookies, well people use them here so I can't really see a problem. I think if people use Jon's forum, that is good, it proves there was a demand for it, if only a few people use it he is likely to close it, which is fair enough.I know some people are not happy with the non music stuff on Mudcat, and I think Jon has kindly provided an additional area for for this kind of thing, let's hope it is a sucsess.Like I said, it is hard to please everyone, somebody might go to Jon's forum, and say "Why is there nothing about sport?" or whatever.cheers.john


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 06:48 PM

Just in case I've frightened anyone. Cookies are useful things. The fundamental problem is that HTTP is stateless - a little extra information is needed to make a site like this work as well as it does for members.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 06:33 PM

Susan, I agree in that it is too early - it is an experiment - we have to wait and see what happens.

Re Mudcat changes, you may be better informed than me but I'm not aware of anything forum wise that is likely to try what I am trying (I wouldn't have bothered if I was). As far as I'm aware, the chat room is a real time chat room, I think a text based program written in Java which would provide a different and again perhaps valuable addition.

I simply don't understand your last paragraph but on a technical level, both Mudcat and my site do use cookies and both may be of concern to users. If my site proves useful I will make some changes as I'm not happy with the current solution but allowing for that, there are and probably always will be differences between Mudcat's and my site's application that may make the topic worthy of discussion as separate issues on both sites.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: wysiwyg
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 05:35 PM

Yes, I agree that would make sense in time-- but I would object to that until it has been thoroughly tested by anyone who cares to try it, and until a sort of Mudcat Consensus develops that this is a way people are willing to go, without a lot of upset. No I do NOT want to try to please everyone-- but a solution designed to help ease upset will not be a viable solution if it causes more than it helps.

I also think we should wait for full implementation of this one possible approach until we see the new Mudcat design and the chat feature planned for inclusion. It may be that once we see these, we may think of other more elegant solutions, or that Jon will want to adapt his approach somewhat to work with the new Mudcat.

I would also like to remind people that these sorts of off-Cat-forum possibilities have been there all along-- not necessarily limited to Mudcat members, but there is no shortage of forums all over the Net, and at least as far as prayer matters are concerned, the people I have been working with did not want to go that route.

I would also point out that not everyone is going to be pleased at an option that is reserved for Mudcat members. All the cookie debates, now times two forums?

~Susan


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Charcloth
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 05:27 PM

I would be nice if there was a permanent reference to it at the top of the forum or some kind of link thing so folks would know it is there. After some time folks are likely to forget about the new forum


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 02:48 PM

It's just come back again. No email to explain why yet.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 02:45 PM

I wish that was the answer Jeri. I can transfer my database to and fro my web space via FTP. I have transferred the database to my PC and my local copy of the forum pages runs quite happily using it. The DSN settings for my web space are the same as when the forum was working.

I can only guess that it must be something that needs re-setting their end but as yet, I have been unable to get a reponse from them. I didn't get a reply the first time it happened but things mysteriously came right after about 8 hrs.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jeri
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 01:01 PM

Gosh this looks just like MSAccess at my previous job. I got very good at running "repair database" every time our LAN burped, hiccupped, went down, or someone looked at it funny.


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 12:50 PM

Well if regulars on the Cat have got used to the idea that every now and then the Gremlins stop them getting through. So you wouldn't be authentic if you didn't have a few crashes.

In fact, if people are sensible, they'll have bookmarked your site, Jon, and the next time there's an extended interruption here you'll be crowded out with refugees.


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 12:49 PM

Oh, sorry, Jon. I hope you hear from them soon. Thanks.


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 12:39 PM

Yes I know kat, it is the same one as I had before announcing the pages in this thread. This time I reported it at 20:18 my time last night and still haven't had a response. The time before, I had no reply to the email but the thing cured itself.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: katlaughing
Date: 19 Aug 01 - 11:26 AM

It seems to be down, again, now, Jon. Sorry.


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 07:16 PM

Only posting here as John in Hull's refresh was a little untimely. In case anyone tried as a result of the refresh, I am back up now. My web space provider went down about an hour before John's refresh - I couldn't even access own web pages let alone mine.

They are only up and running again now (say within the last hr). Not a lot I can do about that... I had an 8 hr downtime before starting this thread that only affected my site (I mean their pages were availible and anything that didn't involve ODBC on my site was accessible - pratically nothing - the forum can't work without it) the day before starting this thread and now this. I just hope this is not typical of thier service.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 01:02 PM

refresh


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 16 Aug 01 - 09:34 AM

John, I'm not sure I like the word "alternative" - I think I prefer "additional area" but thanks anyway and thanks all. It of course remains to be seen weter it will prove useful in the longer term.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 11:55 PM

Well Heather's already discovered the "growing stuff" stuff, and that sure interests her more than Child ballads.

Thumbs up Jon.

Rick


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Charcloth
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 11:49 PM

Good deal! Thanks Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: SharonA
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 07:15 PM

Three cheers for Jon! Hip-hip-hooray! Hip-hip-hooray! Hip-hip-hooray!!!!!


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 05:44 PM

I have seen Jons forunm, it is nice. I also think Jon was very genorous, he saw something on Mudcat that some people didn't like, and he spent his own time and money to offer an alternative.Lets hope his forum is the sucsess it deserves to be.


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: CarolC
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 03:27 PM

Thanks UB Ed. I like prune juice, but I'm not too big on prunes. I do have house plants though ;-)

I have to say that my experience of posting to Jon's forum was very different than my experience of posting here. Not better... just different. I felt free to be as boring and technical as I wanted, and at great length, about a very specific subject. It was fun. And I like that I didn't have to go to a forum/site where I don't know anybody in order to do it.

Now, are there any botanists or other knowlegable people out there who want to try to answer my question?


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Kim C
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 02:16 PM

Good job Jon! I have bookmarked it to check in again later. :-)


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: UB Ed
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 09:47 AM

Oops...Should have said plenty of room FOR all...


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: UB Ed
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 09:44 AM

Well, that's all well and good folks. Believe you me, I think Jon is being amazingly generous. I guess I'm just not understanding why there are any problems on the Mudcat. And that being said, I guess I really don't need to understand (maybe no one can understand). In my simple view, it seems there's plenty of room on the 'Cat fro all and that exercising common sense and courtesy would take care of the "bad feelings."

Good luck with the experiment!

Carol, you need to get a little garden. Start one in one of your windows! One of the best gardening questions is when best to prune?

Ed


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 08:59 AM

OK, not sure if that means you understood me or not. I wasn't using the same meaning of "political" in both posts. You were right in your assement that I'm trying to keep this thread to the "new present" and not get involved in other issues.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 08:35 AM

I was just wondering whether you were using the same meaning of "political" in your first post at the start of the thread, and in your later comment about Ed's post, and I rather thought you probably weren't.


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 05:45 AM

McGrath, I' not really sure what will end up fitting in the annex. Really I'm hoping that others may wish to play the moderator/admin/joeclone role on each specialist area and I think as these areas do have specific focus (or at least that's how I see it working), it would be a good idea to try to keep them reasonably relavant to the area concerned. I would hope though that any moderator is willing to allow differences of opinions or challenges to views, not censor a post because they don't like the view, the language or tone of a response, etc. To do otherwise would IMO be breaking an important principle at Mudcat, and a principle that I believe is essential for a healthy forum.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:48 PM

Clearly you've got a pretty wide definition of "political" Jon. Would that kind of thing really be out of place on your annexe to Mudcat?

Though I'm not disagreeing that focusing attention for a bit on the nuts and bolts rather than on discussion about more theoretical issues makes sense sometimes, and this thread is maybe one of those times.

If you felt a bit ignored Ed, I think it's just that the people posting on this thread seem to have been focusing attention on an interesting new present.

I'd see what Jon is doing here as an attempt to light a candle rather than curse the darkness, as the saying goes. Of course, as is the way with candles, it could always blow out, but we'll just have to see. And maybe use it to help it keep alight while people decide how it fits in, and whether it fills a useful role. Which I think it could.


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 07:47 PM

McGrath, your registration didn't get through. You are right about teething problems of course - I've just taken a forum as is and don't really know how it works or any bugs myself. I will update the main page with an email link to me in the hope I can solve any problems preventing people posting. A FAQ will follow if it looks like the idea will take off.

Ed, sorry, I just want to give things a try and see if they help in any way or are taken up on. For that reason, I don't really want to be responding to "political" posts of any type in this thread.

Jon


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Subject: RE: BS: Experimental Forum
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 06:34 PM

McGrath-The same thing happened to me but my message turned out ok, maybe you could try again.john


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