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Guest Fairies Welcome Here

GUEST 14 Aug 01 - 10:56 AM
GUEST 14 Aug 01 - 11:33 AM
MMario 14 Aug 01 - 11:41 AM
GUEST 14 Aug 01 - 12:15 PM
Mary in Kentucky 14 Aug 01 - 12:58 PM
Bill D 14 Aug 01 - 01:07 PM
MMario 14 Aug 01 - 01:17 PM
McGrath of Harlow 14 Aug 01 - 01:19 PM
GUEST,Celtic Soul 14 Aug 01 - 01:50 PM
GUEST 14 Aug 01 - 02:04 PM
MMario 14 Aug 01 - 02:04 PM
GUEST 14 Aug 01 - 02:24 PM
MMario 14 Aug 01 - 02:30 PM
GUEST 14 Aug 01 - 02:33 PM
Sorcha 14 Aug 01 - 02:41 PM
GUEST,Disclaimer 14 Aug 01 - 03:09 PM
GUEST 14 Aug 01 - 03:28 PM
Ebbie 14 Aug 01 - 10:07 PM
GUEST,Dorothy Parker's Evil Twin 14 Aug 01 - 10:11 PM
Ebbie 14 Aug 01 - 10:30 PM
GUEST,Dorothy's twin again 14 Aug 01 - 10:47 PM
GUEST 15 Aug 01 - 07:32 AM
Ralphie 15 Aug 01 - 01:13 PM
GUEST,Dorothy Parker's Evil Twin 15 Aug 01 - 01:43 PM
Ebbie 15 Aug 01 - 02:07 PM
GUEST 15 Aug 01 - 02:12 PM
GUEST,Dorothy Parker's twin again 15 Aug 01 - 02:13 PM
Ebbie 15 Aug 01 - 02:20 PM
GUEST,Dorothy's twin again 15 Aug 01 - 02:30 PM
Amos 15 Aug 01 - 02:32 PM
GeorgeH 16 Aug 01 - 06:06 AM
GUEST 16 Aug 01 - 07:35 AM
GeorgeH 16 Aug 01 - 08:52 AM
SharonA 16 Aug 01 - 02:35 PM
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Subject: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:56 AM

This is part deux of "Posting as Merely Guest" thread, which has become a bit cumbersome.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 11:33 AM

I just posted this message:

"As a guest who appreciates both Sophocleese's and some other anonymous guests contributions here of late, I'd like to say thank you to all as well."

in the "File anonymous guest complaints here" thread, in response to another anon. guest's message thanking Sophocleese for his contributions in the "Posting as Merely Guest" thread.

I realize this is all getting a bit convoluted, but decided I wanted my thanks to appear in a thread that welcomed our anonymous shape changers, chaos makers, et al rather than in a thread where they are being widely condemned by others.

So, cheers to folk anon!


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: MMario
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 11:41 AM

I'm sorry - I cannot welcome chaos makers whether named or unnamed

- valid contributions I welcome whether they come from named, unnamed, constantly changing names or fictional characters. I resent efforts to stir up trouble, I resent and condemn postings which deliberately twist and quote out of context; I'm human. But since our anonymous guests stand on their "right" to anonymous postings - I cetainly will stand on my right to post my feelings and opinions under the name I have been known by for close to twenty years, and which has belonged to me for over 40.

MMario


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 12:15 PM

Now MMario,

This website and it's owner welcome anonymous guests, so what makes you feel that you have the "right" to treat them rudely?

Anonymous guests are not "standing on their "right" to anonymous postings" they are merely choosing one log-on option of three offered at Mudcat.

This isn't about "rights" at all. Its about welcoming all users whether you agree with the log-on choice they exercise or not, and treating them fairly and equitably.

Again, the "problem" some people on Mudcat like you keep having over this is yours--not Max's, not the forum's, and certainly not the anon. guests.

I understand and appreciate the discomfort some of you feel when encountering anon. guest postings, but there is no condoning the negative behavior we see regularly directed towards them.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 12:58 PM

I agree with Snuffy that most of this nonsense comes from one nasty person who uses the forum for sport...

But I'm curious about three things:

1) How does he keep all his personas straight? Does he have an index card system, or papers hanging near his computer of the characteristics of each personality? You know, the young, ditzy, shallow personality that talks like a valley girl or the naive newbie that asks questions or the bland one that makes not very astute assumptions that steer the readers' thinking toward totally irrelevant topics or the people that post over and over stating the same opinion in order to make it appear a popular topic or just the timing of some posts in order to keep the pot stirred. He often slips up in using key phrases and mixing personas.

2) I wonder if he would volunteer to be interviewed (anonymously of course) by a reporter or a 60 minutes-type expose (accent over the e)? Kinda like those criminals that like to show off how they broke the law. I know some newspaper reporters that would interview such a person.

3) I'm always reminded of the Johnny Carson skit "Does a Jerk (or was it Nerd) really know he's a jerk?" And then he would list all the symtoms. Kinda like "You may be a redneck...jokes."

hmmmmmm...This would be a good thread for Jon's forum.

Jon, I've also thought of other topics that could be debated ad infinitum, and I could learn a lot, but I really don't have the time to moderate.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: Bill D
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 01:07 PM

amen MMario...I agree with a persons need not to be 'traced'..but not with the situation that leaves no continuity between 'guest' posts...but, I am just hollering into the wind.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: MMario
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 01:17 PM

Neither does it condone the negative behavior of many many many anonymous guests towards others.

YOU can address me by name. I cannot address you by name. I cannot even address you by any kind of consistent psuedonym. That in itself in todays society is considered rude. It is PROVEN to be inflamatory on this forum.

Yet *YOU* claim that it is MY actions that cause the problem. Suppossedly it is *I* that cannot deal with the realities of the situation? My god, the manipulitive behaviors over the past few weeks - attributed repeatedly to "cliques" "inner core", etc derive from one apparent source - and anyone who bothers to trace the various machianations knows what that source is.

And to repeatedly refer to someone who CHOSE to leave (and who has since posted a number of times) as being "driven away" given that that person has FAR less leveled at them then many who are still here and posting under their own names is again nothing less then deliberate inflamatory behaviour.

Whether or not YOU committed that behaviour readers of this forum cannot tell. Why? Because you refuse to sign any kind of consistent name to your postings. Again - the ability to do something does not mean that it is correct, proper, wise or polite.

and d*mn but you've managed to push my trigger again! But I'm leaving this post as it is; That you disagree with me I don't care. But to use the analogy of shoes being left at the door that has been mentioned before - yes, you are dragging mud through a place I frequent - and out of respect for myself, the owner and the other users, I will call you on it. Do I have the right to kick you out? No. Do I have any right to tell you to stop it? No. Do I have any right to complain? Yes!

You know - I have watched people being crisped by flamers - mostly anonymous flamers - though occasionally doppelgangers - on this forum for years. with one exception each and every time those people have been accused of behavior of which I exhibit. But I have never even come close to being persecuted in that manner - over a span of 5 years. (Not that I have any desire for it to happen) - Now, if the flaming of the individuals is due to the behavior - as claimed - then why are not the other frequent posters who exhibit the behavior also being flamed? Given the number and frequency of my postings that I have not had this happen HAS to mean that the flame bearers are selecting individual targets. Otherwise the sheer weight of the law of averages means I should be hiding behind aesbestos!

The only thing I have ever been brought to task for is a dislike of "anonymous guest" posters. I admit to that - it is damn hard to talk to anyone without having a focal point of any kind. To talk to a blank guest is like having to have a conversation with someone in another place - whose voice not only comes back to you randomly from all directions - but via computer generated speech so you cannot even tell if you are talking to one person, multiple people or a tape recorder. I really do have nothing against anonymity - but please, please, please for courtesy's sake give me something to focus on while we "talk"

I *DO* have (and admit to having) a STRONG and ACTIVE dislike for anyone who will come in and perform "slash and burn" activity without a consistent identity of some kind. I feel is is cowardly and despicable behavior - not to mention a little sickening.

Look - I do believe that you should be able to post anonymously - however - the use of a consistent psuedonym in no way whatsoever prevents anonymity. (Either on this forum or as an internet user.) Neither I nor anyone else on this forum needs to know one true fact about "you" as an individual.

This is a discussion forum. You acknowledge that for some, possibly many, anonymous postings are uncomfortable to deal with. The logistics of trying to have a discussion with anonymous posters has been mentioned - most work arounds are extemely awkward. Could you explain to me why anyone would want to come back repeatedly to somewhere where their presence causes awkward and uncomfortable feelings UNLESS THEY PREFER TO CAUSE SUCH FEELINGS AMONG OTHERS? (which becomes by definition trolling)

At least that is what it looks like from this side.

*sigh*

I said something of this sort to someone a while back; I cannot concieve of why anyone would WANT to enter a discussion forum and deliberately stir up trouble. Especially when that individual (if anonymous guest you are an individual and not a collective of disgruntled posters ~ as sometimes has been claimed by an anonymous poster in the past) appears to have sense, intellect and a lively wit which could be brought to bear on subjects that are NOT hurtful, inflammatory or divisive.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 01:19 PM

"I understand and appreciate the discomfort some of you feel at the way I behave... but I have no intention of modifying this behaviour, or of giving any explanation for why I choose to cause you this this discomfort, except by saying that I like doing it."

That is rather inviting "negative" reactions - ie people saying they don't like it, speculatimg on the reasons which might lead to someone behaving that way, and commenting that they would rather that the person or people involved turned to some other target.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST,Celtic Soul
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 01:50 PM

Well penned, Mmario. I have to agree with everything you said. You have every right to post your discontent.

I would also like to ask; Why is the originator of this thread not applauding Mmario for being a "chaos maker, et al"? Or is that the sole province of anonymous "GUEST" posters?

I would like to add that I have yet to hear an answer to the following questions:

If one is *not* anonymous when posting here at the Cat under a chosen handle, and with *NO* e-mail attached, show me. I challenge the "GUEST" who made the claim that there was risk of internet identity theft to do a search and tell me, who am I? Find anything at all that I have not myself posted here in this forum, and I will concede the point.

I would also like to know, if the problem is truly one of anonymous "GUESTS" being treated poorly, why is it any better when anonymous "GUESTS" treat those *with* names poorly? Or is that something that only merits attention if it happens to those who are anonymous?

Pot to kettle, come in kettle.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 02:04 PM

Mmmmmm...do members feel they need another thread for spleen venting about anon. guests, or will the current five or six anon guest bashing threads (I've lost count now) currently floating in the forum about cover it?


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: MMario
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 02:04 PM

Thanks Celtic!

One thing I forgot to add above. I do *NOT* like, or even condone my own actions when I "strike back" in anger and frustration. Reasonable *discussions* about the problem are acceptable (my opinion of course). I have rarely been accused of being "the sweet voice of reason" - but honestly feel I don't normaly "lose it" without provocation. Not a justification, but an explanation.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 02:24 PM

MMario,

Ah, I believe only you have control over which threads you click on and read. Anon. guests in this thread can't provoke people who don't read the thread.

Perhaps its time you went away from the anon. guest thing for awhile MMario, and had a nice long rest.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: MMario
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 02:30 PM

My point exactly. Thank you for proving it.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 02:33 PM

Tsk tsk, poor persecuted MMario.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: Sorcha
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 02:41 PM

POOF!!!said the Good Fairy..........


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST,Disclaimer
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 03:09 PM

It would seem to be a prudent and eloquently simple solution if, as has been suggested by some wise members of this forum:

Anyone is in any way bothered, perturbed, upset, angered, enraged, frustrated, hurt, or otherwise made to feel uncomfortable by unsigned messages not readily attributable to a permanent or temporary identity, name, moniker, or pseudonym: Please Scroll On By! The messages contained in those posts are not for you!


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 03:28 PM

McGrath,

To suggest (yours 1:19 p.m.) guests choosing the log-in option that allows them to post anon. are doing it to inflict pain upon those of you who are uncomfortable with anon. guests, OR that they do it to invite negative reactions, is waaaay o'er the top.

At any rate, I'd say the onus is on you to get Max to change the log-in option, rather than continuing to rant on like this in the forum.

Although I do know you all love to rant on about anon. folk. Same faces in all these ranting at the guests threads.

As usual.

If we keep starting threads, you will come, right?


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:07 PM

Guest, Guest, Guest, and Guest, what I don't understand is why you don't seem to have actual subjects that you like to discuss?

I burned myself out in getting irritated, last year, so this doesn't even close to upsetting me. But I amcurious. What interests do you have? Do you like music? Do you play? Do you sing, and if so, what kind(s) of songs do you like to sing? Do you read, and if so, can you share with us something you've read this last week?

Surely, just making little remarks about your 'right' to be here (And we grant that!) is not interesting to you? Let's talk!

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST,Dorothy Parker's Evil Twin
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:11 PM

Ebbie darling--the cure for boredom is curiosity. Unfortunately, as some Mudcatters have so ably demonstrated, there is no cure for curiosity.

Rather than talking, why not say something?


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:30 PM

OK. I do play. Mostly guitar. I sing- but my voice is so unequivocally 'southern', Appalachian or whatever you want to call it, there are a lot of songs that my voice is not suited for.

But I love to listen to music too. (I've about decided that my passion for homemade music kicked in about the same time as some other passions got to be too much botheration!) If you will play or sing, I will listen 'til the cows come home. The way I would know that I'm rich monetarily would be if I could afford to have live music in my home at all times. I would love to be able to wander down the hall to the music room any time of day or night and find people jamming or practicing. So, send money. Lots of it.

As you can see, I also like to talk, although I'm not good at small talk. And don't tell me about your dislikes before you tell me about your loves. Stay interesting.

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST,Dorothy's twin again
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:47 PM

I see you have discovered one of the great truths of life Ebbie...the way to be happy is to live well beyond your means!

Take care.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 07:32 AM

Okay, I'll bite...

I play guitar, try to pen a few songs as well. Both I do badly. Currently reading Look Homeward, Angel by Thomas Wolfe. Before that it was Fast Food Nation by Eric Schlosser (sp?).

Last CD bought: Eyes Of A Woman by the Kelly Richey Band. Currently on my wish list: Welcome by Doyle Bramhall II.

Also picked up some good info about tuning guitars recently from this thread.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: Ralphie
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 01:13 PM

Hey Guest
"Fast Food Nation"...seriously scary book.
Can't see me frequenting such establishments in the future.
Welcome and cheers
Ralphie


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST,Dorothy Parker's Evil Twin
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 01:43 PM

Ralphie,

I'm sure all the big words in the book did make it scary for you.

How predictable it is to see you still can't blunt the edge of wit or the point of satire with your obscurity.

I wondered what had happened to Nic Jones' internet savior, and now, here I am face to face with the legend.

I believe it was Shaw who said "When a stupid man is doing something he is ashamed of, he always declare it his duty."

You fool too many people too much of the time, Ralphie me boy. But in the jaundiced eyes of a cynic like me, your halo always did look pretty rusty and askew.

Kisses, kisses.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 02:07 PM

Guest, Guest, Guest, and Guest, Hey! Back to the subject here.

So what is 'Fast Food Nation' about? The U.S., I imagine. Can you give us a synopsis and what impressed you about it?

I read somewhere that in WW II, American soldiers, et al, were homesick for Mom's cooking, with family around the table; in the Gulf War, they missed the family's outings to McDonald's!

One of the drawbacks or limitations in a forum like this is the fact that in different countries we have different 'heroes', star performers, fads, etc. I haven't heard of the Kelly Richey Band, or Doyle Bramhall II, for instance. I imagine the same thing would be true for you if I listed some of the CDs and performers I have and enjoy. Maybe we need a permathread that can be updated letting everyone know of a treasure that has been found!

I too write the occasional song. None will go down in history, but it's great knowing that there are people around who sing something I created. And it serves the purpose of letting me get something off my chest. (Sounds like I mean 'my manly chest', but I am a woman.)

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 02:12 PM

Well, Fast Food Nation did make me pause and wonder about gambling odds and such just before I took a greedy bite of a big juicy burger I'd finished cooking....

And I liked some of the business philosophy quotes the author dug up on consumer culture giants like Ray Kroc and Sam Walton.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST,Dorothy Parker's twin again
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 02:13 PM

Ebbie, Ebbie, Ebbie,

Hey!

And aren't you living proof you can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: Ebbie
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 02:20 PM

Ah! My very own flame! Thank you. Does that mean I'm finally in the clique? LOL

Ebbie


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST,Dorothy's twin again
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 02:30 PM

Ebbie, Ebbie, Ebbie,

Let's not quibble! I'm the foe of moderation, the champion of excess. If I may lift a line from a die-hard whose identity is lost in the shuffle, "I would rather be strongly wrong than weakly right."


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: Amos
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 02:32 PM

Wodda buncha joiks an maroons!! oi!!!

A.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GeorgeH
Date: 16 Aug 01 - 06:06 AM

Well said, Amos . .


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Aug 01 - 07:35 AM

In response to Ebbie's questions of 15-Aug-01 2:07PM:

Brief synopsis: Fast Food Nation is about the fast food industry's effects on such things as agriculture, meat processing, social and cultural values, and the job market as it concerns unskilled labor and unionization. The book gives a brief history of the rise of the fast food industry and background on some of the major players.

The subject of fast food and its global effects seems to have been well researched and organized, although some of the statistics cited can make for dull reading. Too, the statistics at times cast a doubtful shadow over journalist Schlosser's objectivity.

Info and sound snippets on Kelly Richey can be found here ... ditto Doyle Bramhall II ...


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: GeorgeH
Date: 16 Aug 01 - 08:52 AM

Let's reduce the BS quotient . .

For the benefit of certain "Guests":

What use is the finest voice
If you've nothing good to say?

Actually, there insistance on seeking to be destructive from behind a cloak of "Guest" puts me in mind of another line from the same song:

What't the use of two strong legs
If you only run away?"

G.


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Subject: RE: Guest Fairies Welcome Here
From: SharonA
Date: 16 Aug 01 - 02:35 PM

Up near the top of this thread, GUEST said, "This website and its owner welcome anonymous guests, so what makes you feel that you have the 'right' to treat them rudely?" [punctuation corrected by me]

My observation has been that the GUESTs who are treated rudely are the ones who set the tone by their own rudeness and thus invite the treatment they receive. Other GUESTs, who have treated others with respect in their posts, have been treated respectfully.

Although anonymous GUESTs are welcomed to the website, behaviors such as flaming, trolling and spamming are not (as indicated in this site's FAQ).

GUEST,Dorothy Parker's Evil Twin advocates saying something rather than just talking. That's admirable... but insults are neither admirable nor welcome. I see that it took over 17 hours for Ebbie to get a civil answer to a civil question (i.e. what is Fast Food Nation about?) from a civil GUEST, while Dorothy Parker's Evil Twin wasted no time in hurling yet another insult. D.P's.E.T., the only "something" I see you "saying" is something that provokes negative emotion rather than positive thought. The only "excess" I see you "championing" there is excess rudeness.

GUEST says, "There is no condoning the negative behavior we see regularly directed towards (anonymous GUESTs)." By the same token, there is no condoning the negative behavior we see regularly directed toward Mudcat members by some, not all, GUESTs.

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