Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Mooh
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 11:03 PM

Tony's significant other is a Canadian is she not? Might have something to do with it. That and the superior beer...

(Running for cover...)

Mooh.

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 08:08 PM

Thanks for that link, Bill, very interesting. Although I was somewhat surprised to see that Dave McIsaac plays an Oskar Graf, last time I saw him at the Guitar Summit he was playing a Fender Telecaster ....

btw, did you know that Tony McManus has now emigrated to Canada, to somewhere called Toronto, wherever that might be.

Who knows he might be playing an Osar Graf at next years Celtic Colours.

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Willie-O
Date: 21 Nov 03 - 07:07 AM

Nicer article in the Ottawa Citizen about Oskar. He's got a display and demonstration event going on at the Ottawa Folklore Centre this week to celebrate his 30th anniversary in the business. Unfortunately I don't anticipate making it there so I won't have the chance to peep into soundholes with a mirror...

http://www.canada.com/ottawa/ottawacitizen/news/arts/story.html?id=991a4fbf-54b3-4dc3-9f38-4315b31beef6

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Willie-O
Date: 24 Oct 03 - 08:55 AM

Murray, maybe you're digging a little too deep there, but if I get the chance to look inside one I'll see what I can see.

One thing he is getting at, I think, is that when you keep the shop small and production low, you can experiment with stuff like that, and hand-pick each piece for how it fits into the whole, without having to think "how would I build a hundred a month like this?" Economies of scale are very secondary to the true value of working on it, trying something different, until it's exactly what you want it to be. I find it interesting that Oskar considers himself the artsy type of builder--not that I disagree in any way--since his instruments while lovely are not highly adorned. It's a mindset and an approach to the work that defines it as artistic.

It's true about Martin being industrial too. My impression from my tour there was that the Martin building process involves highly skilled craftsmen at each work station--but although I'm sure many of them are luthiers in their own right, what they do is highly specialized. One guy is shaping necks all day, another attaching them, another gluing tops, etc. There's not a lot of room for individual creativity (except maybe in them thar Cowboy geetars), backing up and trying something else, etc. in there--they have a plan, send the guitars down the line according to that plan, and rely on strict quality control to ensure the finished product meets their standards (if it doesn't, last I heard it gets cut in two. There are no factory seconds shipped or sold.) But hey, it works, what they do. I'd love a Graf guitar, but my next one will probably be another Martin. Got my eye on a D18V...      

W-O

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 06:50 PM

Thank you for contributing Oskar, and thanks to Bill for asking you.

There are of course a million questions which we would love to ask, but if you could see your way to answering just one more, I would be much obliged.

I can envisage from your description how the curved bar operates, but I would love to know
A: the (approximate) radius of the curved bar ?
B: do you form the curve by laminating or heat-bending ?
C: is the intersection with the X bracing formed by notching (similar to the center- X brace joint) or is it a butt joint ?

Murray

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: GUEST,Oskar Graf
Date: 23 Oct 03 - 12:27 PM

So what is this all about, the secrets of the trade,eh.
Well, I think the first thing is how I build. Typically a steel string guitar, whether "hand built" in a small shop or a Martin, is built as an industrial product (I know you don't want to hear this, takes the romance right out of it, but there it is )
I aproach it like a classical builder, each part selected, sized and shaped for it's max. potential, I think it makes a difference so I keep on doing it.
My bracing is the basic X brace, scalloped, and that extra curved bar. It intesects the X braces at the bridge plate and so stiffens the area behind the bridge. Nothing floating, glued onto the top all the way. Of course the whole geometry the of all of the braces is also important, but don't get scientific on me, I'm too artsy for that

...and I only build 12 a year, including Classicals and other stuff
Happy Picking,
Oskar

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 22 Oct 03 - 02:58 AM

I thought it might be a curved brace similar to what Steve Klein uses in his guitars, a composite carbon-fiber graphite and spruce brace which forms a parabolic (or maybe semi-elliptical) arch springing from the back linings and touching the X-brace at the center of the soundboard. This is alleged to allow for lighter soundboard strutting and hence to improve the tone.

If it is actually a curved brace glued down onto the soundboard, I would be interested to know how he achieves the curve. My assumption would be that he laminates it up from multiple thinner lengths of spruce.

Thanks for enquiring amnd I look forward to hearing the answer.

Murray

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Willie-O
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 09:40 AM

Murray, I e-mailed Oskar your question. (I don't have the chance to look inside many of his guitars). He might post a reply here.

If by "flying buttress" you mean a sound-post type thing, I don't think so. We'll see.

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 21 Oct 03 - 04:26 AM

I am still intrigued by the " additional curved bar" which Oskar Graf describes (as in my posting above).

Bill, any chance you could have a look inside one of these instruments next time you have a chance, and report back ? I have a feeling that he may be incorporating a "flying buttress" type of brace from the back to the top, but it might be somethng else entirely ...

Murray

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Willie-O
Date: 20 Oct 03 - 07:22 AM

More Graf sightings:

Twelfth Fret again, 1999, slotted peghead but 14 fret neck. A reasonable $3000--the description says there's some wear on the top and frets, but it doesn't show in the pics.

I checked out the Kingston Guitar Store in downtown Kingston, Ontario--and I highly recommend seeking this little shop out. It is chock full of expertly restored guitars and vintage amps. The Graf in there is a very early one--a 1973 12-string, $2200. (Possibly his first ever 12-string). Gord Mylks, the store owner and luthier, apprenticed with Rufus Stewart, the master of setup, regulation and repair.

Other nifty boxes in the same store: a 1992 Martin D-18V, smooth as silk and only $1800 Cdn; a truly funky 1957 Gibson LG-2, a sunburst, very playable, with the brashest sound I've ever heard coming out of a wooden box.

W-O

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: mooman
Date: 15 Oct 03 - 11:41 AM

Beautiful guitars (not that I've seen many over this side).

I also very much admire Linda Manzer's work and would love one of her cutaway archtops (but the good Lady McMoo might not let me sell the house!). I love the sound of Pat Metheny's baritone Manzer.

Peace

moo (for the time being still championing the more affordable Lakewood's!)

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Willie-O
Date: 15 Oct 03 - 10:12 AM

I saved the pic for wallpaper, which is as close as I ever expect to get to that guitar. Never seen a Graf like that before--wonder who ordered it?

Now where did I put that six grand I had around here someplace?

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Mooh
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 11:16 PM

My first internet stop every morning (that I'm online) is the 12th Fret site. That Graf is droolworthy! And to think what I thought I really needed was a new vacuum cleaner. Silly me...I really need another guitar! The Bride will NOT be amused...

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Willie-O
Date: 14 Oct 03 - 04:17 PM

Whoa, stop the presses. Have a look at this baby, new today at the 12th Fret. It's a 2001 Graf 12-fret-neck supergorgeous fingerpicker special.

The front view

The Brazilian rosewood back

The description--currently at the top of the vintage listings but that won't last.

Oh, man, oh man. Oh, man.

W-O

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Willie-O
Date: 16 Aug 03 - 10:55 AM

Just thought I'd revive this thread with a couple of updates on Oskar.

This year was the 30th anniversary of Blue Skies. As a special project, Oskar built his first ever arch-top f-hole guitar. Talk about collectible. I believe Roddy Ellias, jazz guitarist who wrote a special "Blue Skies Suite" which was premiered at the festival on Sunday night (before the thunderstorm, fortunately) has claimed this guitar, the stuff of legends.   

Oskar still hasn't updated his website since 1999. Blue Skies Festival doesn't even have a website (probably cause they don't want any more people coming, every year there are more than the site can acommodate. If Dave T. is still reading this he will confirm that, since he has been the lucky head of the security team for a few years).

The 12th Fret has sold a couple of 20-year-old Grafs recently, for the rather reasonable price of $2000-2500 Cdn. I can't find any used Grafs listed online anywhere at the moment. They don't last long!

And I'm jeezly lucky that I live near Oskar, and that he's the nicest guy in the world, when I do a dumb shit thing like drop my Martin on an unyieldingly hard chunk of metal (a mike stand base) and it splits up the side. "Hmm," he observed with his gentle Teutonic sense of humour, (there is such a thing and he personifies it) "ze full ventilation!" Had it fixed and back in my hands in two days. I won't tell you what he charged me, cause he couldn't make a living doing repair work so cheap.

W-O

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: GUEST,willie-o
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 09:03 PM

Course you know me Dave T, I know you. In real world I'm mild-mannered Bill Cameron.

I got the "bastard Lowden" as Rick poetically puts it, back in my hands yesterday, with all new frets, new saddle, new elixirs, and Fishman pickup.

It's in my car now (I'm at work), hope no one steals it.

The sound is definitely brasher--will take a while to mellow again. Its great though and no more fingers-gashed-on-fret-grooves!

w-o

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 06:20 PM

I know what you mean mcGrath, but it's intangible. The most resonant instrument in the world will sound very ordinary in some hands. A terrible sounding instrument can find it's "voice" in the right hands.

I sold a very loud resonant D-35 last year and now use a 40 year old dreadnought of uncertain parentage when I play with my string band. It's not as full sounding, but mikes like a dream. Haven't had one bit of feedback from it. It's a guitar that takes a lot of strength to play (which I've developed over thirty odd years) and works really well for me, but might sound like shit when someone else plays it.

It's the mystery.....that's what keeps us interested!

Rick

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 05:57 PM

Once before I mentioned William Pint's Goodall and some others agreed it was veery nice indeed.

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 03:51 PM

You know, I'd really like to have some idea of what is actually physically happening that makes the difference between a great instrunent and one that's just alright.

I mean, the actual sound, rather than the way the instrument feels in the hands, which is easier to understand.

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 17 Aug 01 - 12:23 PM

Ha Ha! Hi Marion. I only act on about HALF of my weirder impulses these days! The last radical thing I did was commit heresy and have my antique martin's neck shaved......glad I did though.

I'm a big believer in the adage that your guitar is first and formost a WORKING TOOL. Customizing it to EXACTLY fit your requirements makes ya play better. Who knows, now that the idea of the hybrid is floating around in my noggin, I MIGHT do it.

Rick

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Marion
Date: 16 Aug 01 - 12:20 PM

Rick, re: "if I was twenty (or even thirty...or maybe even forty yers old, I would..."

I'm curious as to why you think your age matters... if you think it's a good idea, why don't you do it now?

Just nosey,

Marion

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 11:16 PM

I agree, Ken's Graf guitar sounds great with Ken playing it. I've played it a couple times and what I do doesn't sound quite like I think it ought to on it. But, put it in Ken's hands and magic occurs.

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: GUEST,Dave T
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 10:36 PM

I'd have to say Oskar's guitars are among the best I've heard or played. Of course I'm somewhat biased now that I have one. I picked mine up around late April or early May this year...Sitka spruce top, Ziricote back and sides. Before that I played a 1967 Martin OOO-18 (still play it) and a newer D-1R (haven't touched it since) and they don't come close. The thing that strikes me is it's only going to get better over the next couple of years. I've also played Lowdens, Santa Cruz, Larivee's, etc. on occasion. Maybe it's because I've spent time talking to Oskar about his guitars but there's just something special about them. Lots of other people think so too. I don't know whether it's the special bracing system or just the time and care he puts into his work, adjusting the thickness of the woods according to the stiffness and to match back, sides and top. At any rate they just seem to play and sound better than others. I can't really speak about other Graf guitars but I can try to answer any questions about mine.

BTW Rick...I had the pleasure of playing informally with Ken at Blue Skies (held on Oskar's land) earlier this month. Just sort of around the camp fire (well virtual camp fire due to the fire ban). Unfortunately I had to quit around 5:30 am since that was the 3rd night in a row I'd seen the dawn, but Ken sounded great (his guitar too!).

Hey, Willie-O...were you up at Blue Skies and might I know you?

Some others aside from Ken Brown and Jason Fowler who have (or have had) Graf guitars: Don Ross, Stephen Fearing, Kevin Head, Magoo,....lot's more I dont know

Dave T

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Mooh
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 04:51 PM

There's an oldtimer near here, his name escapes me at this moment, who rarely comes out to play except for maybe the odd Legion jamboree, who plays an old Martin slot head 12 string. It's perhaps the next best thing to heaven on Earth.

I bet there's some of the best guitars by chance in amateur hands, porch picking like they're intended.

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: GUEST,Boobear
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 02:12 PM

In response to Mooh's email. I got to play a singular guitar just named the GAL. It was built by various luthiers that are memebers of the Guild of American Luthiers and regardless of how you may feel about the organization it is without a doubt the best concert size steelstring I have ever heard. Monster instrument with projection rivaling any dreadnought I've ever heard.

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 12:59 PM

One of the things I loved about the "bastard Lowden" was the J-45 style neck. It has to do with two of my favourite chords. I play a Bm (and all similar positions up the neck) with my thumb covering the 6th and 5th strings at the 2nd fret, while my index plays the 1st string at the 2nd fret, my middle plays the 2nd string at the 3rd fret, my ring finger plays the 3rd and 4th strings at the 4th fret, and my pinky is free to make it a 'minor 6th' or minor 7th on the first string.

I play a Bb (and similar position up the neck) with my thumb covering the 6th and 5th strings at the 1st fret, my index on the 1st string 1st fret, my middle and ring playing the 2nd 3rd and 4th strings at the 3rd fret. Leaving my pinky free to make it a 6th or 7th on the 1st string.

It was easy on the "bastard" but really hard on my Martin. Granted I started playing a lot of Bluegrass last year and wanted a "bluegrass sounding" guitar, where I don't often use those positions, but that skinny round neck is damned appealing. Yeah, I'm afraid I would commit "heresy" by exchanging necks (but wouldn't have in my twenties....it was hard enough for me to drill a strap button hole then!)

Rick

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Willie-O
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 12:43 PM

I just talked to Oskar and mentioned this thread to him--he may check it out in the next couple of days, so keep refreshing it!

I asked him about Ken Brown's guitar, he said it was made in the early 90's so it has that innovative top bracing described above.

Rick, your suggestion about swapping necks between Martin and Gibson is heresy! A guitar should know who its parents are. I agree with "buy the best D-18 I could find" and after that our opinions part company. Anyway, I thought you were a devotee of Martin necks.

W-O

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 06:31 AM

This ability to "project" is what distinguishes your Stradivarius from your Cheapczech violin, I believe. Close up, most fiddles can sound good but at the bacl of the hall you can hear the Strad or the Guarnerius when the sound of the others has died.

Murray

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 15 Aug 01 - 12:05 AM

Well I probably don't know very much at all 'cause every guitar is different......but....if I was twenty (or even thirty...or maybe even forty yers old, I'd buy the best D-18 I could find, and ALSO buy any Gibson J-45 with a straight neck, and get bruce Dowd to put the J-45 neck on the D-18. Guess I'd have to put the Martin neck on the Gibson and then try and sell it. Or if the scales were not accurate, get Bruce to Make me a J-45 "style" neck. Sort of what merle travis was smart enough to do in the forties.

Rick

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: catspaw49
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 11:47 PM

Good thread.......Rick, can you discuss more about projection versus loudness and what else you've noticed along those lines?

Spaw

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Willie-O
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 11:43 PM

Oskar's just zis guy, you know? Lives in the woods near me. Has about a thousand hippies in his back pasture the first weekend in August for something called "Blue Skies".

Oskar is the quintessential one-man shop, which is probably why he's not better known. Builds two or three dozen a year, period. Knows his trade, and his market, and just doesn't want for much he hasn't already got. Were he more famous in the States, I bet Yankee carpetbaggers would be snapping 'em all up...

I can't get that web page to load, although the link works. When I was at Oskar's last week he was updating the website for the first time in a long time, so I guess I'll ask him what's up when I get my guitar back from him this week...

W-O

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 10:31 PM

Sandy Paton's Appolonio 12 astounds me. Never played or heard another 12 like it. Feels so light that I kept thinking it would explode....but that was years ago.

The guitar that Grit Laskin built for himself a couple of years ago is in that category as well. Not as loud as the five or six Grafs that I've played but projects as well, and possibly even better.

One of the things I learned a few years ago was that some instruments sound their very best from about twenty feet away and some are at their best in close quarters. I tried a little experiment at the 12th Fret one day. Had one of my students (a fine player) play the same thing on a couple of new Martins and a couple of Collings instruments. My ear thought that the Martins were clear as a bell from at least forty feet away, while the Collings seemed to decay (sound wise!) much faster. Standing right in front of them, the Collings sounded fuller with more punch.

However (prepare for heresy) the FINEST guitar I ever heard was a brand new YAMAHA(!!??) years ago at Matt Umanov's store.

Rick

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Mooh
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 09:37 PM

Hmmm, I've played Ken Brown's Graf and would second Rick's opinion except that there are so many builders today that it's next to impossible to sample enough to be sure. However, that guitar and another Graf I've played recently, are truly among the very best guitars ever built. I once attended a sound reinforcement workshop conducted by Ken and if memory serves, that guitar was so microphone friendly it almost (almost!) didn't matter where the mics were placed. The sound was that "everywhere" compared to most others.

I really believe we are experiencing the golden age of luthiery wherein builders like Graf are the leaders.

I do suspect that the tuning is the key. Some guitars just sound best in a particular tuning, often not standard tuning in spite of the supposed design. Dadgad is very often better suited to guitar design than standard, IMHO.

Question number one...I wonder if Ken's guitar was designed with the tuning in mind or is it just that good?

Question number two...Do we know of other singularly superb sounding guitars? Not general catagories or types or builders, but individual examples.

Peace. Mooh.

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 08:04 PM

Not only that, Murray, but I hadn't even read Oskar's description. I'm going to now. That answers some questions for me though. His guitars SEEM very light, but have so much volume.

Rick

Subject: RE: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 07:10 PM

Interesting site, Rick, he obviously buyilds superb guitars. I was interested in what he said about his steel-strings:
"At the heart of my steel string guitars is an innovative bracing system that I developed in the early 80's and refined over many generations of guitars. It incorporates an additional curved bar intersecting the X-brace which allows me to adjust for each different style of guitar. This stiff and light top gives my guitars their characteristic solid but resonant feel, excellent sustain and projection".

Don't s'pose you had a look inside with your flashlight and mirror by any chance ? :-)

Murray

Subject: Oskar Graf, Luthier. THE Master?
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 14 Aug 01 - 06:57 PM

I've been lucky enough to own some pretty fine guitars in my day, from a couple of pre-war Martin D-18s through an absolutely gorgeous custom inlayed 1972 Larrivee, assorted Gibsons, Epiphones, Guilds, and a much lesser pedigreed Japanese Lowden/Flambeau that blew the socks of anything it came near for 15 years. I've also been fortunate enough to be a long time friend of Grit laskin who's instruments often go straight from the shop into museums...or into the hands of the very best players in the world......

.....but I gotta say, that after sitting across a radio microphone for thirteen years, interviwing, listening to, and picking with literally hundreds of guests, one make of guitar has stood out from the rest.

Had a chance to confirm this again on Monday, when my guest was super-celtic-picker Ken Brown.

OH THOSE OSKAR GRAFS!

I think they must just come out of the box with resonance and volume to die for. Ken's guitar shows a lot of wear and tear as would be expected from someone who plays with such force (Jason Fowler's amazing Graf is much more pristine...but give the boy time!) but the instrument can obviously take it. They sound somewhat like Lowdens, perhaps even closer to the work of ace luthier Nick Appolonio, but to my ear, seem to have more sheer power.

I don't see Oskar very often (he lives pretty far away) and this isn't a biased viewpoint, I'm trying to be objective. Just thought I'd brag on a wonderful guitar builder. Here's his website. strum

Rick

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