Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)

Subject: Trying to do it properly
From: nutty
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 04:43 PM

I read Joe Offers comments about the use of the "back" button causing problems for Mudcat so decided to do things properly and use the "right" mouse button for reading in a new page

I agree that in most aspects this works just as well except that the thread title does not change colour to indicate that I have accessed the thread.
Consequently I am spending much more time on Mudcat .. trying to sort out which are old and which are new threads

Has anyone a solution to this????

Any comment Joe??

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: lady penelope
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 05:00 PM

Can't say I have an iMac and I have no buttons on my mouse!

TTFN M'Lady P.

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 05:17 PM

"Back" buttons cause a problem?? How so??? Where's these comments???

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: nutty
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 06:07 PM

clinton , I can't remember the thread but Joe definitely said it was much better to use the right mouse button and "open in new window" then to get back to the Forum you just "close " the window

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 06:12 PM

I can't see how it would be likely to cauyse problems for the Mudcat either way(though I could be wrong) - but it definitely seems easier for someone using the Muddcat to do it that way. I wonder if that was what Joe was saying.

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 06:29 PM

The might be how Joe choses to surf the net, but it's sure not how I do it...

McG might be right...

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 07:14 PM

I suspect that the only way using the browsers back button causes Mudcat problems is if someone posts, hits back, sees the post they have just posted, and tries to send it again. More a case of "pilot error" than anything else. The forward button in the help forum is believed to cause problems though - from what I gather, if you post there and then go forward, the system re-posts on your behalf.

Re Nutty's problem, Max does do anything other than include the ?Messages (current count of messages count) in the URL so that each time someone posts a new page is stored in the browsers cache and the browser decides what has been visited in from the URLs - if you had a big cache, for one thread, you could have stored www.mudcat.org/threads.cfm?threadID=12345?messageID=whatever - could be 1,2,3,4,5,etc to 100+ and then there are the ragtime, etc varients and the system of course goes wrong when messages are deleted from a thread.

Other forums try to use a visited date but some (maybe all) like mine don't work that well. I've tried to think of a better system of letting a user know what they have read but can't come up with one that wouldn't involve tracking vast amounts of history for each user. The Mudcat one is probably the best.

Jon

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: Sorcha
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 07:21 PM

THREAD CREEP ALERT!!!!

There are too many positions to "do it properly". See the Kama Sutra........sorry, just had to say it. The Beatles wanted to do it in the road.......

aaaarrrggghhh. I know I'm bad.

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: IvanB
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 08:01 PM

nutty, another way of opening in a new window is to hold the shift key down while left-clicking on the thread title. Doing it in this manner also marks the thread as read immediately (you'll be able to see the color change before the new window even loads).

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Aug 01 - 08:06 PM

Alternatively, you can click on the words 'forum home' that are located in between each post. That will get you back to the forum without having to use the back button. And you don't have to go to the trouble of opening in a new window.

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: iamjohnne
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 11:02 AM

I have yet to find a problem here. I am like Carol, the "forum home" thingy works fine for me.

Johnne "goin where the weather suits my clothes"

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 11:35 AM

I havent got a mouse, (I am using internet tv) I have a back button on my remote control, does using this make problems for Mudcat?

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 03:31 PM

john in hull, with internet tv, are you able to point to anything and click on it? Is there any kind of device (like a remote control or something) that allows you to do this? I don't know anything about internet tv. If you are using the back button, how do you refresh? Is there a special button for that?

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 04:27 PM

The "back" button on your browser can sometimes be the cause of double posts. If you frequently have problems with double posts, I'd suggest you don't use your "back" button. I'd definitely recommend that you don't use your "back" button immediately after submitting a message, and also please don't double-click the "submit" button (one click should suffice). Once you type a message and click the "submit" button, please wait and let Mudcat do its thing. Sometimes it takes a while, especially during Prime Time evening hours when Internet traffic is busy at your location or at Mudcat Central in Pennsylvania.

If you're just reading threads and not posting messages, using your browser's "back" button shouldn't cause problems.


As far as I know, you can't use more than one browser window on television-based Internet like WEBTV. If you're using a computer, the system of right-clicking links and selecting "view in new window" should work well for you. If you are an experienced Internet user, you know that there are many options for viewing threads. Sorry, but I can't address all options in the FAQ and Tech Hints PermaThread. I direct most of my advice to new users - oldtimers should be able to figure most things out by themselves, and should be able to discern when the information I give is just a tip, and when it is something that should be taken as a rule.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: Mark Clark
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 04:33 PM

I couldn't immediately locate Joe's comment so I'm not sure exactly what he meant but here's my guess. Mudcat forum pages are not displayed from stored text but are generated dynamically each time a link to a page is invoked. When we (left) click on a thread link, the thread page is loaded and generates the latest index for the thread in question along with all the posts. When we click our browser's back button, we aren't simply moving back to a cached page, we are actually causing the Mudcat server to generate a new, possibly revised, list of threads. I'm guessing that it's the constant regeneration of the threads list that Joe says is placing a load on Mudcat's computing resources.

If we shift-click the thread links or right-click and select Open in New Window, we preserve our current thread list. Then, when we close the new thread window, we are returned to our thread list without asking a Mudcat server to generate a new one.

If my explanation is off base, I'm sure Joe (or a clone) will be along to set me straight.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: Mark Clark
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 04:54 PM

Well, I see that Joe was posting the real answer while I was busy composing my own wild-assed theory. I also see that I don't know the difference between an unordered list (<ul>...</ul>) and the underline tag (<u>...</u>) that I had intended to use.

Sigh.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: Mark Clark
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 05:00 PM

I also see the Joe came back and cleaned up my tag error.

Thanks, Joe.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: Joe Offer
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 05:04 PM

It's not a matter of overloading Mudcat resources - my "open in new window method" should speed up your use of Mudcat. Using the "back" button has some risk of causing multiple posting (sometimes, not always - the reasons are too complicated to explain to inexperienced users and too obvious to need to explain to experienced users).

The normal way to use Mudcat is to look at the Forum Menu and choose a thread you want to see, click on it, and read it. When you're done, click on one of the "Forum Home" links in the thread to go back to the Forum Menu. You generate an up-to-the-minute Forum Menu every time you click on the "Forum Home" links, but it's takes a long time to load the Forum Menu when traffic is heavy.

Because of the time it takes to load the Forum Menu, some Mudcatters use their browser's "Back" button to take them back to the (usually unrevised) Forum Menu. This works, but can cause problems if you've been posting messages, or it can be slow if your browser is set so using the "back" button gives you a freshly revised page every time.

As an alternative to reloading the Forum Menu every time, I suggest right-clicking links and choosing to "open in new window," and clicking the grey "refresh" button on the Forum Menu from time to time. If you have a computer, you're really slowing yourself down if you use just one window to view the Internet. Using multiple windows also helps when you're posting links. Give it a try, and I think you'll like it.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 05:15 PM

I'm one of those Back button users. When I back up to the threads page, it does not automatically update. I have my browser set to check for a new version of a page "automatically," and I just tried it set on "every visit to the page." I still had to click "Refresh." I think the back button just sends you to the page stored in your cache.

If you post a message in the Help Forum use the back button and then go forward again, you WILL repost the message. The Help Forum is set up differently than the main forum. I think when you click "Forward," your browser performs the last action - "Submit Message." It doesn't do that in the main Forum - at least not with the way my computer's set up. I don't know if other browsers or other versions of MSIE might behave differently, or whether what happens is even up to the browser or is based on the way the Help or Main forum interprets what "Forward" means.

I haven't been around as long as Joe. Apparently, there were Back button problems before I arrived - maybe even after I joined, since I seem to remember screwing something up by using the back button. Perhaps they still exist and I just don't know about them, or perhaps Max changed something so it was less easy to mess up.

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 05:44 PM

My shirts button in the front, so I don't have this problem.

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 05:47 PM

And all your dresses have zippers, right Mark? ;-)

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 06:13 PM

I'm a back button user too....no problems here either.....But I think the "proper way" to raed the 'Cat is to move your computer into the bathroom so you can throw a crap at the same time.......works for me.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 06:45 PM

Only the muumuus.

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 07:58 PM

Just had a look at the Help forum and noticed that the "post form" calls up the forums "threads.cfm" - rather different to the action in this forum. I wonder how it distinguishes between using threads.cfm to list all posts and using threads.cfm to process the new post and then do the listing. Just my guess but it may not take much in that fourum for a back/forward movement to be misinterpreted as another post...

Thinking further, isn't the help forum an older version of the Mudcat forum? Could it be that this particular duplicate post problem did exist in the main forum but has gone?

Jon

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: Don Firth
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 08:02 PM

I've always used the "back" button, assuming that was the way it was always done. Just tried using the right mouse button and "open in new window." Fast! Amazing! Much swifter maneuvering.

Learn sup'm new ever' day. Thanks, guys!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 08:23 PM

I am puzzled. Why hit "back" after you have posted, when it brings you to the Forum Home anyway?

If I'm looking at a thread and I don't post to it, I right-click on my "back" button, chose "Mudcat Discussion Forum" from the little menu, which takes me to the Forum home. Then I hit "refresh".

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 08:33 PM

Guest, here's why I sometimes do that, Sometimes a post appears to fail. You either get an error message or the thing takes ages, perhaps freezes. I hit back under those circumstances so that I can copy the post just in case it has failed. I then go back to the main forum and refresh and see if the original post had gone through - if it hasn't I have the text to paste and try again - actually saves making duplicate posts.

I think making a (successful) post refreshes for you - no need to refresh again.

Jon

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 09:02 PM

Apparently in AO(freaking)L, it isn't possible to right click on the back button. I'm trying it, but it won't work. AOL is for babies. Except I like that there is a mail butler who tells me I have mail. But I wish he sounded like 'Jeeves' of 'Jeeves and Wooster', rather than the stupid, perky, smug, SOB bastard they've got now. ;-)

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: Jeri
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 09:14 PM

The thing with right-clicking the back button is it's handy if you want to bypass some sited on your way backwards. You can go straight from where you are to where you were 3 pages back if you want.

CarolC, there may be some way to change the sound file. Personally, I'm madly in love with the ICQ guy with the (possibly French?) accent.

Jon, I do think there used to be a major back button problem. I seem to remember a private conversation between myself that went sort of like "Yeah, right - 'don't use the back button'. There isn't anything wrong with the back button, and I'll use it if I...oops. So that's what happens!"

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: CarolC
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 09:34 PM

Thanks Jeri. My son suggested something like that as well. I think I have a lot more to learn about computer stuff before I can think about trying to do anything like that.

But my computer will be in the shop next week (so I can hopefully get more than 16 colors, and maybe even be able to listen to and watch Mudcat radio for the first time ever), and I'll ask the repair guy if he knows anything about that.

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 09:42 PM

Jeri, not sure about the accent but ICQ was Israeli before getting taken over by AOL.

Jon

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 09:47 PM

Is somebody busy composing the Back Button Blues?

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: Mark Clark
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 10:09 PM

Okay, here you go.

Back Button Blues

I'm your back button papa, I can switch your window 'round,
I'm your back button papa, I can switch your window 'round,
I'm a mean mistreater, I can bring your server down.

Now the back button blues make you lie awake all night,
Now the back button blues make you lie awake all night,
All you right-click women better keep yourself outta sight.

Course it could use more verses.

      - Mark

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: Bill D
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 10:35 PM

if I type a post, and there seems to be a looooongggg pause, and I'm not sure anything worked, I will often highlight my post and 'cut'(ctrl x) not 'copy'(ctrl c) it to the clipboard....then hit 'back'. I can the try anything...refesh, a different server..(Loki, Ragtime)...and when all seems well, past that post back in and try again....This makes SURE I don't double post.

(By the way, 'spaw...your wish, back up there ^ is my command)...your new surfing station is ready. Installation will commence as soon as the T-1 line is ready...Please be sure you have alternate facilities available during the approximately 2 weeks down time...or HOLD IT IN!

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 11:25 PM

And the fifth (FIFTH!) fifth (FIFTH!)
Constipated man was Catspaw,
His system locked up...

Aloha,
Mark (trying to make this a musical thread after all...)

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 11:26 PM

Oh, damn, that should have been sixth (SIXTH!) sixth (SIXTH!) Time to hit the beach...

Subject: RE: Trying to do it properly (viewing Mudcat)
From: catspaw49
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 11:36 PM

Why is it that every time I make some wise-ass remark that is completely off the wall, a bizarre thought in extremis, not only has someone actually done it, but Bill has a friggin' picture?

And Doc.....nice touch with the tune.

Spaw