Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile

Subject: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Finn McCool
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 08:36 PM

There are several translations of this Irish Gaelic song on the internet, as well as a great deal of background information, eg. Jacobite vs. Patrick Pearse lyrics, etc. But I have not been able to find anything pertaining to the first word of the song, "Oro". Is this an exclamation, proper name, change from shipwrecked Spanish Armada sailors?

Who or what is Oro?

--Finn

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From:
Date: 25 Aug 01 - 10:28 PM

It's a vocable.

Like "Yo-ho" or "ho"

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Finn McCool
Date: 26 Aug 01 - 03:25 PM

George,

Thanks for the answer, and also for introducing me to a nifty vocabulary word.

--Finn

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 12:38 AM

Finn, I hope you don't mind my saying it but the song title should read: "Óró,'Sé Do Bheatha 'Bhaile". (Oh-ro, You Are Welcome Home). The words were written by Patrick Pearse. Thanks George for the technical term for "Óró", I wondered about that.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From:
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 06:03 AM

You're very welcome. Enjoy the music.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,Lori
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 12:22 PM

The tune seems to be related to "The Drunken Sailor." Is this just a coincidence or is there a connection? Or do I suffer from an overactive imagination?

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Brían
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 01:43 PM

Now that you mention it, there is a similarity between the 2 song melodies. This might be worthy of another thread, because the shanty singers might be able to answer this one better. I know that many fine melodies have been used as hymns, ballads, lullabies, work songs in many different languages. As Kendall would say, "Why waste a good melody on only one song?".

Brían.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,chrisj
Date: 27 Aug 01 - 10:48 PM

'Oro Se Do Bheatha Abhaile' and 'What Shall We Do With the Drunken Sailor?' do share a maritime theme at least. 'Oro..' is about the Galway chieftainess Grace O'Malley who is reputed to have preyed on English shipping in the Irish Sea in Elizabethan times. She apparantly visited Elizabeth 1 of England at court and caused a stir as the 'Irish Pirate Queen'.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,Annraoi
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 04:22 PM

Sadly, no, Chrisj, Gráinne Mhaol (Grace O'Malley, is mentioned in one verse only and that, unless my memory plays me tricks, is in the Pearse composition only.
Annraoi

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Brían
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 08:33 PM

She is mentioned in 2 verses:

Verse 2:
Tá Gráinne Mhaol ag teacht thar Sáile

And in verse 3:
Gráinne Mhaol agus míle gaiscíoch ag fógairt fáin ne Ghalla

But the song is about the anticipacion of Irish men and women returning to rout the Stranger, not about Grace O'Malley.

Brían. I have searched the forum for any relationship between these 2 songs, and have only found one reference to Martin Ryan saying that he thought the melodies were the same.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Jimmy C
Date: 28 Aug 01 - 11:56 PM

Pearse wrote Oro Se Do Bheathe Abhaile but it was inpired by the following old Jcaobite Ulster song " Searlas Og" Young Charles

A Shearlas Oig a mhic Ri Sheamais
Se mo chreach do thraill ar Eirinn
Gan ruainne broig, stoca no leine
Ach a ciscairt leis ns Francaigh

Chorus - Curfa
Oro se do Bheatha 'un a bhaile
Oro as cionn a'n duine eile
Oro 'se do bhetha 'un a bhaile
Ta tu amuigh le raithe

O 'se mo lean gear nach bheicim
Mura mbeinn beo 'na dhaidh ach seachtain
Searlas Og agus mile gaisiopch
A' coscairt leis na Francaigh

Chorus

Ta Searlas Og a 'triall thar saile
Beidh said leisean cupla garda
Beidh siad leis Francaigh agus Spainnigh
'S bainfidh siad rinc' as na Gaillibh


Young Charles son of King James
It is my sorrow your coming here
Without a stitch of a shoe, sock or shirt
But you struggling with the French

Chorus

Oro you're welcome home
You;re welcome above all others
Oro you're welcome home
You've been away for a seasonMy bitter grief that I'm not seeing
If I only lived for a week
Young Charles and a thousand warriors
Struggling with the French

Chorus

Young Charles coming over the water
Some troops will be with him
The French and Spanish will be with him
And they will rout the English

p.s.p Strugggling with the French in verse s 1 and 2 probably means striving to get their support.?

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Jimmy C
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 12:01 AM

sorry, the chorus and 2nd verse should have looked like this

Oro you're welcome home You're welcome above all others Oro you're welcome home You've been away for a season

My bitter grief that I'm not seeing If I only lived for a week Young Charles and a thousand warriors Struggling with the French.

The tune is very similar to the P.Pearse one, but a little slower. Speeded up it could be considered similar to the Drunken Sailor.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Brían
Date: 29 Aug 01 - 03:01 PM

Thanks, Jimmy.

Brían.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 09:11 AM

If you do an archives search you'll find a few threads and both Pearse's and the Jacobite lyrics have previously been contributed. See this thread for abc and midi of tune.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,Annraoi
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 03:52 PM

I note that Conrad Bladey aka Peasant failed to give the source of his lyrics in the thread blueclickied by Philippa. Would you mind giving us *your* source, Jimmy ?
Annraoi
Philippa, Cia mar a tha thu? Is fada ó bhí muid ag caint le chéile.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 03:54 PM

Umm, not really *welcome* home, more "hail to my home". "Sé do bheatha!" is an old-fashioned greeting. The traditional answer, as far as I remember, is "Go maireadh thú" (my tenses may be shaky here).

All the stuff about Searlas Óg is to do with Bonnie Prince Charlie, who became an almost mythical figure of rescue for the beleaguered Irish under occupation by "the Gall" - the Foreigners.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Brían
Date: 30 Aug 01 - 06:39 PM

The notes from Ó Bríain and Ní Úallacháín's ubiquitous A Stór 's A Stóirín says it can be found in Céad de Cheoltaibh Uladh bt Enrí Ó Muigheasa, 1915.

If anyone knows where I can find a copy of it let me know. There is another song in it I am interested in.

Beidh mé ag caint libh arís.

Brían.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Jimmy C
Date: 31 Aug 01 - 12:08 PM

Annraoi,

I got the info from the liner notes of a C.D. by Garry O'Briain and Padraiugin Ni Uallachain titled " A Stor's A Stoirin". A gael Linn production. A great collection of 36 songs for all ages. I believe Padraiugin Ni Uallachain is a school techer in Dundalk. I'm sure you have heard of her. Her father was a great fount of knowledge on the origins of many traditional songs.

Jimmy

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 01 Sep 01 - 09:11 PM

Tá mé go maith, a Annraoi; thiocfadh leat scríobh chugam go direach. I also have contributed the Jacobite lyrics in some other thread. Pádraigín sings them to a slightly different air than that used for the Pearse lyrics, her own adaptation. But the usual tune is given with the lyrics in Ceolta Theilinn.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,Matty Paul
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 09:15 AM

I may not be an expert on music. But I like the information about this song and I would like to contribute what I know.

"Oro se do bheatha bhaile" As far as I know, it means: Long Life To You On Your Homecoming." In the english language. I've heard the irish tenors sing it, and it does sound like "What Shall We Do With The Drunken Sailor?" Personal, I like the first better than the second.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Lighter
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 11:23 AM

"Drunken Sailor" may be more likely to derive from the Irish tune than the other way round, if only because the shanty tune is simpler.
(Before somebody else points this out, the adaptation *could* have gone either way. But folk tunes, like folk lyrics, tend to wear down after long use.) Also, many shanty tunes appear to have come from prior sources: "Donkey Riding" (from "My Bonnie Hieland Laddie"), "The Hog-Eye Man" (from a minstrel song), "The Harp Without a Crown" (from "The Wearing of the Green"), "New York Girls" (from "Larry Doolin"), etc.

Not surprisingly, many of these melodic adaptations are from Anglo-Irish folk/pop culture; many first- and second-generation Irishmen served before (and abaft) the mast in British and American vessels.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Jim McLean
Date: 02 Mar 04 - 01:00 PM

Alos 'Donald where's your troosers'

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Big Tim
Date: 06 May 04 - 08:55 AM

The McPeakes recorded the song as "Doro Feinne (the Warrior's Chant" and Peter Kennedy's liner notes give the writer as Seumas Mahon. This is obviously wrong, Pearse wrote the lyrics, but who was Seumas Mahon?

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Big Tim
Date: 07 May 04 - 05:03 AM

I have just been informed by an Irish speaker that "doro" does not exist in Irish, that Pearse's original (1914?), was "An Dord Feinne" (The Warrior's Chant): "dord" meaning, in music, a bass humming sound.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Jim McLean
Date: 07 May 04 - 12:53 PM

I just listened to the LP of the McPeakes singing An Durd Feinne and that's the title on the sleeve .... durd rather that dord. Durd means the same in both Scottish and Irish gaelic, as you say Big Tim, a buzzing sound.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Big Tim
Date: 08 May 04 - 05:14 AM

Jim, surely it's "dord", not "durd"! That looks like a missprint on the sleeve. My McPeake version is on a CD reissure compilation, and it's "dord", as it is in Ruth Dudley Edwards biog of Pearse.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Jim McLean
Date: 08 May 04 - 05:53 AM

Big Tim, in Dwelly's the Illustrated Gaelic-English Dictionary, sometimes considered as the Bible for gaelic scholars, the word appears as 'durd'. Under 'dord' it says 'see durd' so we can make of that as we will, as both seem to be correct. The singer appears, to my ears, to be singing 'durd' but then again different accents, different sounds.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Big Tim
Date: 08 May 04 - 11:49 AM

Jim, I'll have to get a hold of that dictionary, thanks for the tip. I do have a big Irish to English only dictionary, 1300 pages, but durd doesn't appear. My informant is an Irish speaking, Irish university, Irish literature specialist: maybe she's wrong.

The McPeake's version is excellent, isn't it: so natural, primitive even, which I think is what Pearse was trying to conjure up; pity he didn't live to hear it. The Irish Tenors version is too fast, Black 47's rock version is interesting, Ronnie Drew's though is my absolute favourite.                                                      

(btw: I'm sticking with dord!)

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Jim McLean
Date: 08 May 04 - 01:23 PM

Big Tim, does 'dord' appear in your dictionary? I agree with you on the best versions!

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Big Tim
Date: 09 May 04 - 03:53 AM

Yes Jim, "dord" does appear, but not "durd".

Four definitions are given:
1. "deep sound, hum, buzz, murmur ,drone".
2. "deep or plaintive chant".
3. "An Dord Feinne - Chant of the Fianna".
4. "hum, buzz, drone, chant in deep voice"

Ronnie Drew certainly has a deep voice!

(My dict. is "Focloir Gaeilge-Bearla" [fadas missing], edited by Niall O Donaill, "a chuir in eagar". Dublin, 1977, 1992 print.)

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Fear Faire
Date: 09 May 04 - 04:17 AM

Dord is the earlier spelling. I'd imagine the spelling in Scotland still carries an accent (grave) given its derivation. O-u differentiation is not huge and the pronounciation of dord (or more commonly bord for table) varies from long o to short o or u to a diphthong and even long u in various dialects in Ireland today.

In modern lexicography, dord is used for bass instruments or to denote a related instrument of lower pitch as in the case of "dordveidhil" for violincello. The use of dord to denote a deep voice is attested in old sources. The name of the group Dordán is another noun derived from a verb.

Pádraig Mac Piarais' title "Dord Féinne" is based on Dord Fiansa in older sources where dord is a chant or refrain and some of the sources imagine a noise from beating together the shafts of spears accompanying the chant.

As this was in a context of warfare, I'm not sure if that makes it inclusive or exclusive to the varying opinions on guitars and percussion in Irish music sessions!

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Jim McLean
Date: 09 May 04 - 04:32 AM

Nice clarification and yes, the Scottish spelling still carries the grave.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,emmi
Date: 24 Oct 04 - 05:18 PM

hi. i was wondering if anyone could help me find the lyrics for this song that the browne sisters sing. my chorus at school would like to sing it and i would appreciate a phonetic version of the lyrics as well as a translation. if you could email it to me that would be great! ([e-mail]) thank you so much!

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From:
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 06:25 AM

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 06:29 PM

yes all right I can do it for you ddemon girl emmi.

e mail me

[e-mail] and confirm that nobody else has done this for you. Alternatively if you know someone with Clancy Bros songbook, they will have it.

However its only a couple of pages I can scan them and send them to you

all the best

alan whittle

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 06:46 PM

on second thoughts, demon girl emmi. don't bother I'll e-mail them to you anyway - it will be my good deed for this year.

but please confirm receipt

al

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 06:55 PM

only just noticed it was twoyears ago
oh well!

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Declan
Date: 07 Jun 06 - 08:05 PM

The word 'dord' in Irish Gaelic is used to mean a bass as in bass guitar or double bass (as opposed to a fish or a pint of ale). I didn't know the derivation until now. Very interesting.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,Aaron MacDaibheid
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 11:27 AM

Do any of you guys have notes for this on the tin whislte (preferable) or on the flute"!...

It would be greatly appreciated if you could send me an email of these notes, thanks!

Aaron MacDaibheid
Derry, the north of ireland

Slan go foile mo charas

([e-mail])

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Snuffy
Date: 02 Nov 07 - 01:55 PM

I got the tune from one of those cheap whistle books you find in most music shops - I think it says Soodlums Irish Whistle something on the front.

Take a pen and paper with you and copy the notes if you don't want the whole book. :-)

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,EirenRanger
Date: 19 Nov 08 - 06:11 PM

Concerning, "What would you do with a drunken sailor" The melodies are meant to be the same. "What would you do with a drunken sailor" was written to the melody of the Irish rebel song, also it actually only; at least originally, contained 3 verses outside of the chorus. However more verses would be added to the song by sailor depending on the time a task took to complete. It was usually sung at the raising of the sails or the anchor and was one of the only songs allowed to be sung on Irish shipping vessels and oddly enough in the Royal Navy.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,Shannon
Date: 20 Mar 09 - 09:06 PM

I have heard that Drunken Sailor MAY have stolen the melody from Oro Se do Bheatha Abhaile. It makes sense that the melody came from an Irish song since the heyday of the Royal Navy came later in a time when the Dorian mode was largely not used in English music. For those who aren't music nerds, the Dorian mode is a type of minor scale common to Oro Se do Bheatha Abhaila, Drunken Sailor, and Greensleeves.

In the Irish War for Independance, the P. H. Pearse version of the lyrics were sped up to make the song into a fast march. There's a wonderful rendition of this in the film The Wind that Shakes the Barley.

That said, the major difference between Drunken Sailor and Oro Se Do Bheatha Abhaile is the rhythm. For a tinwhistle player (or floutist) to play The Drunken Sailor, the technique used to create the abrupt stops between short notes is called tonguing. This percussive rhythm is not present in Oro Se Do Bheatha Abhaile.

Since I can't put an image of sheet music here, I'll tab out the song for whistle to meet Aaron's request. Parenthesis mean upper octave. You'll have to figure out the rhythm by listening to it. This should work on any tinwhistle or Irish flute. For E Dorian, use a key of D instrument or Tenor D instrument.

11210124 22222642 1121010(5) (5)(4)0(5)011

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 21 Mar 09 - 03:34 PM

Coming back to 'Sé do bheatha, it's also the first line of the 'Hail Mary' in Irish:

'Sé do bheatha, Mhuire, atá lán de grásta
(Hail, Mary, who is full of grace).

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,Seamus45
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 04:18 PM

More on "'Sé do bheatha" - literally: "It is your life" and is used in both Gaeilge and Gaidhlig. It can mean both "Hail" and "You are welcome" (and in Gaidhlig, "You're welcome" as in a response to "Thanks") depending on dialect and intent.

Both Dord and Durd are "correct" in that both are used in both Gaelics. Likely that dord would be the more prevalent form in Ireland.

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: *#1 PEASANT*
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 04:38 PM

Source for this iconic Republican song.
Popularized by Sting recently
even then now a ways back.....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%93r%C3%B3_S%C3%A9_do_Bheatha_%27Bhaile

oro

Two sets of lyrics.

Conrad

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: ollaimh
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 05:01 PM

considering that pearse and others were exucuted soon after the song, i like yeats 1916 as a companion piece in english.

he thought highly of pearse as a poet with potential but was stunned by the sudden eruption of rebellion. most in irish society at the time thought the young radicals were all hot air.

a fellow named blake out in british columbia used to sing a very stirring version of oro se do bheatha bhaile. he was in a band called connely's men with kevin dooley and barry hall, and phillomena whose last name i forget. they brought the song alive with imediecy and grace

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,Seamus45
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 06:09 PM

PS: Best sung versions (IMO) are Darach O Cathain's (available on YouTube and iTunes) and for the Jacobite version, Padraigin Ni Uallachain's version of "a Shearlas Oig, a mhic Righ Sheamais."

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Jan 11 - 06:29 PM

This remind anybody of anything?

X:2
T:Johnie Cope
C:Charles Maclean
Z:Jack Campin: "Embro, Embro", transcription (c) 2001
F:16army/abc/JCopeMcV.abc
S:Charles Maclean, Collection of Favourite Scots Tunes, pub. Neil Stewart, c.1770
M:C|
L:1/16
K:G Minor
G4 (TG2FG) A2G2 (AG)(FD)|F4    F3G       A2GF F2A2|
G4 (TG2FG) A2F2   G2D2   |F2C2 (DC)(B,A,) G,4   G,4:|

It's part of a variation set on "Johnny Cope" composed not long after the song first appeared (early 1750s). The resemblance to "Oro se" seems too strong to be coincidence. (Slightly less close to "Drunken sailor").

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,celtic know it all
Date: 25 Jan 11 - 04:02 PM

it's a good song to sing while eating spaghetti by the fires

Subject: RE: Oro Se Do Bheatha Bhaile
From: GUEST,Shaz
Date: 02 Mar 11 - 11:12 AM

Hi there!!

Does anyone have a nice, easy harmony for O ro se do bheatha bhaile? would be most grateful for any help!
Thanks,
Shaz