Fiddle tune dilemma

Subject: Fiddle tune dilemma
From: Les in MT
Date: 26 Jan 98 - 02:32 AM

Here's a two part question for historians and performers. 1) At what period did it become codified for fiddle tunes to be played twice through the first part and then twice through the second part (AA:BB), and why ? Was it to facilitate dancing, or make the tunes more musical ??

2) Is there a standard way to sing verse & chorus, which are A & B and make them fit into the AA:BB format on tunes like "Turkey in the Straw" "Old Joe Clark" etc. I realize that if you're playing with a "rehearsed" group, one can work this out, but it seems like every time I'm in a jam with a loose group of fiddlers, banjo players, etc. it gets all balled up about how to make it all come out. I've tried saying "one A & one B on the singing" and also tried singing on the 2nd A & 1st B, and also singing two verses for AA and then doubling up the chorus, BB. But is there a standard way ??

Subject: RE: Fiddle tune dilemma
From: Bruce O.
Date: 26 Jan 98 - 10:57 AM

The reason may be lost in antiquity. The :||: repeat is often found in 17th century tunes. Guesswork: Many tunes were also used for songs, and verses then were usually longer. Often one finds 8 line verses, so the 1st strain twice through was used for the 1st 4 (long) lines and the 2nd strain for the last half of the verse.

Subject: RE: Fiddle tune dilemma
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 26 Jan 98 - 11:11 AM

As an former dance musician, I suspect that most quadrille and contra figures rerquired more time than was available with a once-through playing of each part. For singing purposes (and many, if not most, of the tunes had words), AB or AAB usually makes more sense.

Subject: RE: Fiddle tune dilemma
From: Bruce O.
Date: 26 Jan 98 - 11:45 AM

In the 18th century the AAB was common with a 4 measure strain of 6/8 or 9/8 time as the repeated A and an 8 measure strain for the B.

Subject: RE: Fiddle tune dilemma
From: Jerry Friedman
Date: 28 Jan 98 - 04:16 PM

In Baroque music (roughly 1600-1750), AABB was by far the most common form for movements of suites, sonatas, concertos, etc. Whether popular musicians adopted the court musicians' practice or the other way around or they both started at the same time independently or together--I couldn't tell you.